Campaigner says Wirral CCTV spy car is 'illegal'

Nigel Wise - says Wirral Council has made same errors as London authority over CCTV spy car paperwork

Nigel Wise - says Wirral Council has made same errors as London authority over CCTV spy car paperwork

First published in News Wirral Globe: Photograph of the Author Exclusive by , Editor

THE campaigner who made national news by forcing a London council to take its CCTV "spy cars" off the road because of incorrect paperwork says Wirral must do the same.

Nigel Wise discovered discrepancies in the registration of cameras on two of Richmond and Twickenham council's Smart cars after being fined for parking last August.

Following his sucess in London, Mr Wise sent a Freedom of Information request to Wirral demanding to see their spy car paperwork.

Now he says he's found the same mistakes in Wirral's certificates - which would possibly invalidate fines.

Wirral Council has denied this however, and insists its certification is watertight.

Mr Wise successfully had his £100 fine overturned at a parking tribunal hearing last month after he revealed the Vehicle Certification Agency had not declared the actual camera that pictured him parked in the road as an “approved device”.

After the hearing, the council blamed the VCA for the administrative error and said all the council’s camera cars were “correctly licensed”.

But it was forced to make a U-turn and pull the cars off the road last week for officers to check documentation.

A Richmond council spokesman said officers would now go through documents with “a fine-toothed comb” and were looking into whether they would need to refund motorists.

It could have to hand back more than £1m in fines.

Mr Wise contacted the Globe after reading our website report on Friday that Wirral Council had confirmed certification of their car was all in order.

He said: " I think Wirral Council is in for a shock, a bombshell.

"The law clearly states that a council must be in a position to prove that the camera is an 'approved device.'

"Wirral Council would be unable to prove that - as no camera whatsoever is named on Wirral's certificates.

"Nor do they have the maker's name of the system used to record and review pictures.

"It is these elements that require certification. Not the car itself."

Mr Wise added: "This bare fact alone would invalidate any Wirral CCTV car fine or penalty that is taken to appeal.

"It is an inescapable fact that Wirral ought to now take their vehicles off the road forthwith pending the rectification of their inadequate and incomplete certificates."

He urged anyone who has recently received a penalty issued by the Wirral CCTV car to appeal.

The certificates have been seen by the Globe.

The Smart Car is the only item registered. There appears to be no mention of cameras or recording systems.

But a Wirral Council spokesman argued that the two cases are different.

He said: "It is our understanding that Richmond had made changes to its equipment which may have invalidated the original licences.

"Our equipment is the same as was originally approved by the Home Office. We are happy the licence is all in order."

Comments (17)

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8:18pm Mon 9 May 11

Hon says...

So bascially since Wirral Councl hasnt changed it's devices since it was launched its fine but Richmond changed alter the device.

In that case I dont see what the issue is. If you get caught by this device your caught for a reason i.e parking outside schools on zig zags or parked on pedestrian crossings or other locations. Just dont park on them problem solved. Anythng to get in the news. I dont like it either but its a growing tool used by council's to ward off people from parking in stupid locations.
So bascially since Wirral Councl hasnt changed it's devices since it was launched its fine but Richmond changed alter the device. In that case I dont see what the issue is. If you get caught by this device your caught for a reason i.e parking outside schools on zig zags or parked on pedestrian crossings or other locations. Just dont park on them problem solved. Anythng to get in the news. I dont like it either but its a growing tool used by council's to ward off people from parking in stupid locations. Hon
  • Score: 0

9:05pm Mon 9 May 11

Mercury1 says...

No it isn't, it is a money making device as simple as that!

If they wanted to deter people from parking badly then they would not need to park a distance away and use a mast mounted camera and would instead have a very large vehicle covered in markings stating that fact but unlike the spy car, out in the open.
No it isn't, it is a money making device as simple as that! If they wanted to deter people from parking badly then they would not need to park a distance away and use a mast mounted camera and would instead have a very large vehicle covered in markings stating that fact but unlike the spy car, out in the open. Mercury1
  • Score: 0

2:33am Tue 10 May 11

Esinem says...

You only need to take a look at www.NoToMob.co.uk to see some of the evidence of the way enforcement has become purely revenue driven. It is common to operate these cars covertly where the signs are illegal or confusing. Councils often ignore requests to correct them or just drag their feet as it is more profitable to allow offences to be committed, regardless of the risk to public safety.
You only need to take a look at www.NoToMob.co.uk to see some of the evidence of the way enforcement has become purely revenue driven. It is common to operate these cars covertly where the signs are illegal or confusing. Councils often ignore requests to correct them or just drag their feet as it is more profitable to allow offences to be committed, regardless of the risk to public safety. Esinem
  • Score: 0

3:18am Tue 10 May 11

PaulCa says...

As I said in another thread....the enemy within. The council also have hundreds of illegal or poorly-maintained parking spaces that can't be enforced. But they carry on using outsourced services to actively break the law, knowing its easier to take money from bewildered and compliant motorists who don't know their rights. As in this camera car case, compromised council officers, cogs in the machine, steeped in dishonesty, slaves to their pension and not brave enough to stand up and be counted are only able to issue hollow justifications they KNOW to be false.
As I said in another thread....the enemy within. The council also have hundreds of illegal or poorly-maintained parking spaces that can't be enforced. But they carry on using outsourced services to actively break the law, knowing its easier to take money from bewildered and compliant motorists who don't know their rights. As in this camera car case, compromised council officers, cogs in the machine, steeped in dishonesty, slaves to their pension and not brave enough to stand up and be counted are only able to issue hollow justifications they KNOW to be false. PaulCa
  • Score: 0

5:33pm Tue 10 May 11

bigfoot says...

And while this situation continues the Council themselves continue to committ the offence of malfeasance.
And while this situation continues the Council themselves continue to committ the offence of malfeasance. bigfoot
  • Score: 0

10:05pm Tue 10 May 11

readingglass says...

Does Richmond and Twickenham resident Mr Wise and others like him really believe they hold the moral high ground when it comes to being caught parking illegally and dangerously. Yellow lines are there for a purpose and that purpose is to protect other road users and pedestrians. These people wouldn't park on zig zag lines outside schools and on yellow lines outside shops if there was a Police Officer or Traffic Warden standing there watching them. They park illegally because they think they can do so without being caught, and then bleat and whinge about "big brother" when they are caught on camera. People who are caught by this car deserve to be fined because they are putting other drivers and pedestrians at risk. Without exception, they are lazy selfish morons.
Does Richmond and Twickenham resident Mr Wise and others like him really believe they hold the moral high ground when it comes to being caught parking illegally and dangerously. Yellow lines are there for a purpose and that purpose is to protect other road users and pedestrians. These people wouldn't park on zig zag lines outside schools and on yellow lines outside shops if there was a Police Officer or Traffic Warden standing there watching them. They park illegally because they think they can do so without being caught, and then bleat and whinge about "big brother" when they are caught on camera. People who are caught by this car deserve to be fined because they are putting other drivers and pedestrians at risk. Without exception, they are lazy selfish morons. readingglass
  • Score: 0

11:57pm Tue 10 May 11

Positive thinker says...

Mr.Wise must have to much time on
his hands,we all know the rules if you
park in the wrong place,you get a
ticket you pay the price.there's always
a wise guy who comes out with a load
of nonsense to avoid paying
Mr.Wise must have to much time on his hands,we all know the rules if you park in the wrong place,you get a ticket you pay the price.there's always a wise guy who comes out with a load of nonsense to avoid paying Positive thinker
  • Score: 0

12:24am Wed 11 May 11

Spiffy says...

Penalties demanded from law breakers by law breakers. The irony. The hypocrisy. The utter lack of surprise.
Penalties demanded from law breakers by law breakers. The irony. The hypocrisy. The utter lack of surprise. Spiffy
  • Score: 0

10:27am Wed 11 May 11

Hon says...

I googled Mr Wise's case and its totally different. In Richmond they changed the equipment wholly so in the specifications that they handed to VCA it had all been altered. In this case it seems Wirral Counci's is the same equipment used since it was issued by the VCA i.e you submit a large amount of info on the technical spec's of the camera and gear then get certified. Now if Wirral Council had done what Richmond had done i.e changed gear wholly in regards to the camera etc then i'd agree but to me the fact he was let off his case because Richmond had totally changedf gear is completley different and Mr Wise is just out for a bit of publicity!. Just dont park illegal = no tickets. Since this Camera car usually operates outside schools or by pedestrian crossings I really dont see the issue. Unless it is booking people for being late back to their cars after their ticket expired!
I googled Mr Wise's case and its totally different. In Richmond they changed the equipment wholly so in the specifications that they handed to VCA it had all been altered. In this case it seems Wirral Counci's is the same equipment used since it was issued by the VCA i.e you submit a large amount of info on the technical spec's of the camera and gear then get certified. Now if Wirral Council had done what Richmond had done i.e changed gear wholly in regards to the camera etc then i'd agree but to me the fact he was let off his case because Richmond had totally changedf gear is completley different and Mr Wise is just out for a bit of publicity!. Just dont park illegal = no tickets. Since this Camera car usually operates outside schools or by pedestrian crossings I really dont see the issue. Unless it is booking people for being late back to their cars after their ticket expired! Hon
  • Score: 0

11:07am Wed 11 May 11

wayneo says...

readingglass wrote:
Does Richmond and Twickenham resident Mr Wise and others like him really believe they hold the moral high ground when it comes to being caught parking illegally and dangerously. Yellow lines are there for a purpose and that purpose is to protect other road users and pedestrians. These people wouldn't park on zig zag lines outside schools and on yellow lines outside shops if there was a Police Officer or Traffic Warden standing there watching them. They park illegally because they think they can do so without being caught, and then bleat and whinge about "big brother" when they are caught on camera. People who are caught by this car deserve to be fined because they are putting other drivers and pedestrians at risk. Without exception, they are lazy selfish morons.
Hmm, "yellow lines are there for a purpose";
!
!
!
http://www.kingstong
uardian.co.uk/news/8
942796.CCTV_camera_c
ar_snapped_on_double
_yellow_lines/
!
http://www.shieldsga
zette.com/news/local
-news/camera_car_par
king_not_so_smart_1_
3366453
!
http://www.bbc.co.uk
/news/uk-england-ken
t-10923768
!
http://www.name-n-sh
ame.co.uk/parking_wa
rdens.htm
!
!
And that's for starters sunshine.
[quote][p][bold]readingglass[/bold] wrote: Does Richmond and Twickenham resident Mr Wise and others like him really believe they hold the moral high ground when it comes to being caught parking illegally and dangerously. Yellow lines are there for a purpose and that purpose is to protect other road users and pedestrians. These people wouldn't park on zig zag lines outside schools and on yellow lines outside shops if there was a Police Officer or Traffic Warden standing there watching them. They park illegally because they think they can do so without being caught, and then bleat and whinge about "big brother" when they are caught on camera. People who are caught by this car deserve to be fined because they are putting other drivers and pedestrians at risk. Without exception, they are lazy selfish morons.[/p][/quote]Hmm, "yellow lines are there for a purpose"; ! ! ! http://www.kingstong uardian.co.uk/news/8 942796.CCTV_camera_c ar_snapped_on_double _yellow_lines/ ! http://www.shieldsga zette.com/news/local -news/camera_car_par king_not_so_smart_1_ 3366453 ! http://www.bbc.co.uk /news/uk-england-ken t-10923768 ! http://www.name-n-sh ame.co.uk/parking_wa rdens.htm ! ! And that's for starters sunshine. wayneo
  • Score: 0

5:12pm Wed 11 May 11

readingglass says...

wayneo gives examples of a camera car taking photographs of vehicles parked illegally while the camera car itself is parked on yellow lines. SO WHAT!. Of course those cretins shouldn't be parked illegally while taking photographs, and the local authorities should take firm action to ensure this never happens again, but that doesn't IN ANY WAY excuse the idiots they did catch parked illegally because they were too lazy to park safely and walk and too stupid and selfish to consider the hazards they cause. Park safely and legally and you won't be fined! Park illegally and you will. Accept it.
wayneo gives examples of a camera car taking photographs of vehicles parked illegally while the camera car itself is parked on yellow lines. SO WHAT!. Of course those cretins shouldn't be parked illegally while taking photographs, and the local authorities should take firm action to ensure this never happens again, but that doesn't IN ANY WAY excuse the idiots they did catch parked illegally because they were too lazy to park safely and walk and too stupid and selfish to consider the hazards they cause. Park safely and legally and you won't be fined! Park illegally and you will. Accept it. readingglass
  • Score: 0

8:55pm Wed 11 May 11

Esinem says...

Here's a classic example of how WCC used illegal signs and a 'prohibition' not backed by a Traffic Management Order. Let's see how drivers do in this survey:

http://youtu.be/7x1T
yRBYEWo

Here's the whole story: http://youtu.be/0ADT
L6Se22w

There are many more examples in Westminster as there are in other boroughs, e.g. http://www.southwark
-today.co.uk/news.cf
m?id=7620

Interestingly, NoToMob have NEVER seen ANY of WCC's 12 $CAMera cars outside a school!
Here's a classic example of how WCC used illegal signs and a 'prohibition' not backed by a Traffic Management Order. Let's see how drivers do in this survey: http://youtu.be/7x1T yRBYEWo Here's the whole story: http://youtu.be/0ADT L6Se22w There are many more examples in Westminster as there are in other boroughs, e.g. http://www.southwark -today.co.uk/news.cf m?id=7620 Interestingly, NoToMob have NEVER seen ANY of WCC's 12 $CAMera cars outside a school! Esinem
  • Score: 0

11:18pm Wed 11 May 11

BarneyMcGrew says...

Quite simply, if you get caught, you get a fine. I don't see what difference it makes how you get caught. Tough! This is another one of those nutters like the guy who didn't want to pay his council tax. They seem to be attracted to Wirral.
Quite simply, if you get caught, you get a fine. I don't see what difference it makes how you get caught. Tough! This is another one of those nutters like the guy who didn't want to pay his council tax. They seem to be attracted to Wirral. BarneyMcGrew
  • Score: 0

11:38pm Wed 11 May 11

Positive thinker says...

Let's go to court and arrest the judge
M
Let's go to court and arrest the judge M Positive thinker
  • Score: 0

2:04am Thu 12 May 11

Esinem says...

I don't object to the fair enforcement of clearly and legally prohibited parking or manoeuvres.

I DO object to the councils and their enforcers flouting the rules and acting in a way that prioritises revenue over safety and free traffic flow. The law is quite clear that the goal of civil enforcement should be "100% compliance without penalties" and its objective should be traffic management not profit.

If you knowingly break the rules, you should accept the penalty whether a motorist, enforcer or local council.
I don't object to the fair enforcement of clearly and legally prohibited parking or manoeuvres. I DO object to the councils and their enforcers flouting the rules and acting in a way that prioritises revenue over safety and free traffic flow. The law is quite clear that the goal of civil enforcement should be "100% compliance without penalties" and its objective should be traffic management not profit. If you knowingly break the rules, you should accept the penalty whether a motorist, enforcer or local council. Esinem
  • Score: 0

1:12pm Thu 12 May 11

Positive thinker says...

I must ask the question,did Mr wise think by going public and coming out
With a load of nonsense he was going to get somewhere.Dont think so Mr.wise
You just look like the other clown Big time let's arrest the judge Rodger the dodger Hayes,you should of thought about it first because dosnt look like
you have got many people on side,as for
the people in authority,there laughing at
You and your type.It's a game and it's one you will never win you clown
I must ask the question,did Mr wise think by going public and coming out With a load of nonsense he was going to get somewhere.Dont think so Mr.wise You just look like the other clown Big time let's arrest the judge Rodger the dodger Hayes,you should of thought about it first because dosnt look like you have got many people on side,as for the people in authority,there laughing at You and your type.It's a game and it's one you will never win you clown Positive thinker
  • Score: 0

9:45am Fri 13 May 11

wayneo says...

Positive thinker wrote:
I must ask the question,did Mr wise think by going public and coming out With a load of nonsense he was going to get somewhere.Dont think so Mr.wise You just look like the other clown Big time let's arrest the judge Rodger the dodger Hayes,you should of thought about it first because dosnt look like you have got many people on side,as for the people in authority,there laughing at You and your type.It's a game and it's one you will never win you clown
May not have got him anywhere personally but I expect all those who have been given penalties unlawfully will gain their money back, as for being a clown, why is it when members of the public bring Council failure and wrondoing to the attention of others, that the spiteful vitriol is directed towards them?

It is unlawful of course, for a public authority to keep unlawfully derived income on their accounts, as you're so so evidently such a stalwart for regulations, i'm sure you would find it inconceivable that a Council which enforces to the letter of the law, would be in a position of breaking the law itself.
[quote][p][bold]Positive thinker[/bold] wrote: I must ask the question,did Mr wise think by going public and coming out With a load of nonsense he was going to get somewhere.Dont think so Mr.wise You just look like the other clown Big time let's arrest the judge Rodger the dodger Hayes,you should of thought about it first because dosnt look like you have got many people on side,as for the people in authority,there laughing at You and your type.It's a game and it's one you will never win you clown[/p][/quote]May not have got him anywhere personally but I expect all those who have been given penalties unlawfully will gain their money back, as for being a clown, why is it when members of the public bring Council failure and wrondoing to the attention of others, that the spiteful vitriol is directed towards them? It is unlawful of course, for a public authority to keep unlawfully derived income on their accounts, as you're so so evidently such a stalwart for regulations, i'm sure you would find it inconceivable that a Council which enforces to the letter of the law, would be in a position of breaking the law itself. wayneo
  • Score: 0

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