£10 million hotel for West Kirby’s seafront (From Wirral Globe)

teki, Birkenhead says...
4:58pm Wed 16 Jan 08

I don't see the point. I take it it's being built on the car park. Oh well,s**t happens.

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john, west kirby says...
11:51pm Wed 16 Jan 08

If the wan't a hotel for the golf why don't they just build it on the golf course. Lots of people use the car park and one of the options to replace the parking is to build a multi storey on morrisions. Looks like a get rich scheme for property devlopers at the expense of the local vistors and residenence

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dissapointed, wirral says...
12:20am Thu 17 Jan 08

I attended a meeting to discuss the Hoylake and West Kirby master plan at a meeting in Westbourne hall some time ago. The proposed hotel was discussed at that time and the overwhelming majority of local residents were against the proposal. This was due to the loss of the council car parking, which is always full on busy weekends and holidays. To replace the parking it was proposed to build multi story car parks on Morissions or by the fire station, this would help to destroy the appeal of the area, note that parking replacements are vaguely mentioned in the article.

At the time of the meeting we were assured that this was just a proposal and would go no further, however it appear that the council has completely ignored the views of the residents, and has had a "competition" to find the best proposal for a hotel.

It looks like they are selling a valuable asset to the highest bidder, how much are the developers paying for the car park? If the hotel is not a success can it be converted into valuable apartments?

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Stupid Stupid Stupid, Humanity says...
1:29am Thu 17 Jan 08

This is a typical liverpudlian tactic,MR hatton will you please stand up?Please stand up?! please stand up?!Typical overbearing under acheiving action of a GREEDY COUNCILOR!I am amazed you are still wearing suits...the area should put you in stocks!

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PLEASED from Hoylake, Hoylake says...
2:06am Thu 17 Jan 08

I am so pleased that someone is prepared and committed to invest in West Kirby & Hoylake. This is such a refreshing change and will benefit the area immensely and put North / West Wirral on the map. Bring it on!

The issues over car parking are relatively easily overcome and should be offset by people in general becoming far more environmentally conscious in not using their cars or (far more cheaply - using taxis!).

I wish the scheme GOOD LUCK! and hope that local Councillors and our M.P. back the scheme for the general good.

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Master Plan, west kirby says...
6:23am Thu 17 Jan 08

I would strongly object to the hotel being built in this area, it is a result of poor planning decisions from some time ago.

Back or before 2004, Wirral council suddenly realised that the golf open was about to occur, flushed from their success with regenerating New Brighton, by delivering a clown on a roundabout and proposing a free supermarket for the promenade, they commissioned a master plan to regenerate the residential towns of Hoylake and West Kirby. Something had to be done, as the towns were looking a bit tatty due to years of neglect and there was objective one money to spend. The commission was given to BDP Consulting who specialised in reviving run down inner city areas to improve the sea side residential locations of West Kirby and Hoylake.

Between 2005-06 the first stage of the plan was implemented very quickly. To get to the golf parking the twisty 60mph roads by Saughall Massey were converted to a very straight thirty mile an hour roads complete with street lights even though no one lived there, for several million pounds. The pavements in Hoyake were upgraded to a nice real stone and the railway station was done up, the street lamps were replaced with flag poles and the roundabout was improved by adding camouflaged birds onto scaffolding poles, although this was an improvement on the original idea of a giant golf ball. West Kirby was improved with some temporary flower pots as the trains were only stopping in Hoyake. This tiding up kept the golf happy.

A council public master plan web site was produced, which contained some more proposals, one was for the replacement of the sailing school at the marine lake, with a hotel and a sailing school known as the sail, the hotel was required to allow 50 golfers to stay there during the golf, it would be a totally modern iconic building in keeping with the existing promenade. Initially BDP proposed two locations, the first was the marine lake car park this would have many advantages, the existing council car park would remain, guests would have excellent views of the Dee estuary, people walking on the promenade would be shaded from the harsh sunsets and it would provide an excellent windbreak for the lake sheltering the sailors and windsurfers from the strong winds, however there was one problem on spring tides the basement of the hotel might flood. The other location was the council car park on Dee lane, building here would also discourage free loaders from walking around the lake without paying for a hotel room, as they would have nowhere to park, however this was not allowed so BDP proposed some nice iconic multi storey car parks, either behind the hotel, or in the centre of West Kirby another possibility could be to tarmac some more of the beach. Other aspects of the plan included a necklace of lights around the marine lake, to blot out Wales at night and to provide and underwater light feature, a plaza including pedestrianisation of Grange road and the concourse to provide a village centre around the doctors and a roof over the crescent to offer an all weather outdoor dining venue where there are no restaurants.

In 2007 a meeting was held to discuss the proposals with the residents, much to the councils surprise most of the residents complained of the lack of parking facilities, which is problem and objected to the building of the hotel. The council reassured the residents that it was only a proposal and they would listen to their objections. In the meantime after hearing of the residents issues with parking they came up with a great idea to charge them £100 pounds to park outside their own houses, luckily the residents raised petitions and the council was stopped. The original web site was withdrawn after the meeting and replaced with a single vague document dated from 2004 (follow this link http://www.wirral.go
v.uk/LGCL/100006/200
079/823/Final_Report
_FINAL_pdf.pdf)

In Jan 2008 the council and their developers issued an article to the Liverpool echo and the daily post stating that they held a competition to find some nice developers to build a free sailing school in return for a prime piece of seafront property, and an iconic multi story car park in the poor run down resort of West Kirby. Throughout this so called competition in the article the residents have been totally left out of the loop, with no information forth coming from councillors or MPs as to any other proposals or bidders. Note that the replacement parking proposal is not clear and that that there are many other controversial proposals in the rest of the plan for both West Kirby and Hoylake.

I would strongly object to the hotel being built in this area, it is a result of poor planning decisions from some time ago. Back or before 2004, Wirral council suddenly realised that the golf open was about to occur, flushed from their success with regenerating New Brighton, by delivering a clown on a roundabout and proposing a free supermarket for the promenade, they commissioned a master plan to regenerate the residential towns of Hoylake and West Kirby. Something had to be done, as the towns were looking a bit tatty due to years of neglect and there was objective one money to spend. The commission was given to BDP Consulting who specialised in reviving run down inner city areas to improve the sea side residential locations of West Kirby and Hoylake. Between 2005-06 the first stage of the plan was implemented very quickly. To get to the golf parking the twisty 60mph roads by Saughall Massey were converted to a very straight thirty mile an hour roads complete with street lights even though no one lived there, for several million pounds. The pavements in Hoyake were upgraded to a nice real stone and the railway station was done up, the street lamps were replaced with flag poles and the roundabout was improved by adding camouflaged birds onto scaffolding poles, although this was an improvement on the original idea of a giant golf ball. West Kirby was improved with some temporary flower pots as the trains were only stopping in Hoyake. This tiding up kept the golf happy. A council public master plan web site was produced, which contained some more proposals, one was for the replacement of the sailing school at the marine lake, with a hotel and a sailing school known as the sail, the hotel was required to allow 50 golfers to stay there during the golf, it would be a totally modern iconic building in keeping with the existing promenade. Initially BDP proposed two locations, the first was the marine lake car park this would have many advantages, the existing council car park would remain, guests would have excellent views of the Dee estuary, people walking on the promenade would be shaded from the harsh sunsets and it would provide an excellent windbreak for the lake sheltering the sailors and windsurfers from the strong winds, however there was one problem on spring tides the basement of the hotel might flood. The other location was the council car park on Dee lane, building here would also discourage free loaders from walking around the lake without paying for a hotel room, as they would have nowhere to park, however this was not allowed so BDP proposed some nice iconic multi storey car parks, either behind the hotel, or in the centre of West Kirby another possibility could be to tarmac some more of the beach. Other aspects of the plan included a necklace of lights around the marine lake, to blot out Wales at night and to provide and underwater light feature, a plaza including pedestrianisation of Grange road and the concourse to provide a village centre around the doctors and a roof over the crescent to offer an all weather outdoor dining venue where there are no restaurants. In 2007 a meeting was held to discuss the proposals with the residents, much to the councils surprise most of the residents complained of the lack of parking facilities, which is problem and objected to the building of the hotel. The council reassured the residents that it was only a proposal and they would listen to their objections. In the meantime after hearing of the residents issues with parking they came up with a great idea to charge them £100 pounds to park outside their own houses, luckily the residents raised petitions and the council was stopped. The original web site was withdrawn after the meeting and replaced with a single vague document dated from 2004 (follow this link http://www.wirral.go v.uk/LGCL/100006/200 079/823/Final_Report _FINAL_pdf.pdf) In Jan 2008 the council and their developers issued an article to the Liverpool echo and the daily post stating that they held a competition to find some nice developers to build a free sailing school in return for a prime piece of seafront property, and an iconic multi story car park in the poor run down resort of West Kirby. Throughout this so called competition in the article the residents have been totally left out of the loop, with no information forth coming from councillors or MPs as to any other proposals or bidders. Note that the replacement parking proposal is not clear and that that there are many other controversial proposals in the rest of the plan for both West Kirby and Hoylake.

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Cuddles, says...
8:42am Thu 17 Jan 08

Why can't West Kirby, Hoylake and other costal areas just be tidied up, faults rectified, parking sorted etc and left for the residents of the Wirral and their guests to enjoy? Or would that involve listening to the residents as opposed to listening to the jangle of money?

Avarice=fat=useless.

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marje, says...
9:56am Thu 17 Jan 08

Gosh what a comment from masterplan.hear hear all valid statements so lets hope your comments are read by BIG BROTHER THE COUNCIL.I do not reside in the area mentioned but parking is a big issue.Wether the hotel proposals are agreed or not (OR ARE THEY ALREADY)where do the hotel patrons park their vehicles and the rest of visitors and the local residents using the shopping facilities. Mr George Ellis i am not surprised there is local disapproval of the proposed hotel ARE YOU?

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Emigrant, South says...
9:59am Thu 17 Jan 08

As an ex nth Wirral resident, with family still there, it's about time we had some decent hotels (like chester & liverpool)instead of overpriced, tatty victorian efforts who trade off their resturant reputations(Wallasey
)

Fantastic news for me & my family to vist up north!!

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Joan Cleater-Nickson, Wallasey says...
11:10am Thu 17 Jan 08

Although reasonably priced accommodation is much needed on the Wirral,i honestly believe the proposed hotel at West Kirby would stand out like a sore thumb, and would probably be something of a white elephant.

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parking plan, Wirral says...
11:34am Thu 17 Jan 08

Quote from the Hoylake and West Kirby master plan page 100.

"Planning permission to any change of use at this location needs to be fully
considered. The development of a hotel on the existing car park will result in the
loss of 173 car parking spaces. Though, at present, demand is low during the
winter and higher during the summer, the development of a hotel and sailing
school will both generate new demand. A parking feasibility study will need to be
undertaken, with possible solutions investigated in more detail. The
consideration of a multi-storey car park as part of the Concourse redevelopment
should be made as a solution to this scenario, in addition to deck access parking
on the current Safeway car park and herringbone parking along the South
Parade."

Is this still valid? Would herring bone parking reduce the width of the prom pavement?

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Mr Bollo, says...
12:07pm Thu 17 Jan 08

Emigrant wrote:
As an ex nth Wirral resident, with family still there, it's about time we had some decent hotels (like chester & liverpool)instead of overpriced, tatty victorian efforts who trade off their resturant reputations(Wallasey ) Fantastic news for me & my family to vist up north!!

Well said, but I fear it will never happen - the small-minded NIMBYs will see to that - they want to stop a potentially exciting bit of redevelopment work from happening because they will loose a few council parking spaces??? Totally pathetic, just like the endless dribbling over the New Brighton redelevopment.

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WKPH, Canberra, Australia says...
12:33pm Thu 17 Jan 08

Those who do not remember their history are doomed to repeat it. The Hydro Hotel trashed a few decades ago because it had become a white elephant would have been a real jewel to the West Kirby frontage. Now a spangly and by all accounts, bereft of long term thought, quick cash development with dump itself on the resident of West Kirby. C'mon, the golf open justifies a hotel? It ain't the Grand Prix is it? the fickleness of it all beggars belief - what next, the pitch and putt to become a casino? Bad development choice now lead to naffness later. Case in point the concourse, yes the facilites are great but from outside the dirty breezeblock exterior is distinctly 3rd world - I expect Borat to walk out of there.

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John Hutchinson, West Kirby says...
12:43pm Thu 17 Jan 08

New life does not need to be breathed into West Kirby. The residents are quite happy with the amount of life that we already see. Some would say that with the number of cafes and bars currently in the town, we see too much life. Our streets are busy throughout the day and long into the night. On any clear day, the town is visited by large numbers of day-trippers bringing much-needed revenue. Even on bad weather days, cars can be seen parked along South Parade with their occupants enjoying the air and views. Additional refreshment places are not required in the town but car parking is at a premium. With public car parking having been built upon by the proposal, where are visitors and shoppers to park? Our streets are already full.

The Lake is busy whenever the wind is suitable. There is life in the town. Neither it nor we are dead, yet.

A scheme such as that proposed is not the only way to provide the town with a new sailing school, if it were needed.

Why did the residents of the town not hear sooner of the competition that gave the developer exclusive rights to work up their proposal? Residents do not like to read in newspapers, plans that effect their lives. It is to be hoped that the Local Authority will redeem itself during the consultation stages.

The town does not need additional restaurant, bar or retail facilities. The town copes well enough with those it has. Beach-side siting will detract from those more centrally situated. Information services for Hilbre would be useful. Boat storage is only of use to members. Day-sailors will use trailers and need a slip-way. The need for additional retail and cafe units is questionable. The character of the town will be destroyed by units such as those to be found at New Brighton and many other sea-side towns. 50 new jobs is meaningless. How many would be filled by West Kirby people? Would this number have any impact on the economy of the town? What proportion is this of the total number of jobs in the town?

West Kirby does not require regeneration. It is a lively and self-sufficient town. We have everything here that we need to survive on a day-to-day basis. There are some empty retail premises but not an unsightly nor disprortionate number. I'm unaware of any domestic properties in need of regeneration due to unoccupancy. Links between the town centre and waterfront do not need improvement; Dee Lane is approximately 250 yards long.

The location is undeniably spectacular. Additional building will detract. The open and outward looking car park maintains the view which will be taken up by the proposal and lost for ever except for five minutes a day by those occupying their hotel rooms. The developer insults the town by saying that it has "faded a little". In the twenty years plus that my wife and I have lived here, we have seen quite the reverse.

The hotel building will not add to the architectural quality of the town unless it blends sympathetically. Experience suggests that this will not be the case.

Mr Beer confounds himself. The new standards of the 21st century are not necessarily good and when so may not be desirable and they cannot, by definition, be classic. The town does not keep itself to itself. As already stated, it is a busy hub for boaters, sailors, wind-surfers, walkers, bird-watchers and all kinds of other day trippers. We already have visitors for our attractions from all over the world. It is the aim and no other of the proposal to meet the under-provision of hotels on Wirral. The coastal centre of West Kirby is not the place. Hotels have been demolished in New Brighton and other sea-side towns.

The visual impact on West Kirby is impossible to gauge from the hopelessly innacurate graphic. The buildings ranged alongside the proposed hotel do not have the proper shape, nor are they arranged correctly. Is the patch of blue in the bottom left-hand corner of the image, another marine lake or high tide?

The Hope Street Hotel is perfect because it is in the right place. West Kirby is the wrong place for such a proposal.

New life does not need to be breathed into West Kirby. The residents are quite happy with the amount of life that we already see. Some would say that with the number of cafes and bars currently in the town, we see too much life. Our streets are busy throughout the day and long into the night. On any clear day, the town is visited by large numbers of day-trippers bringing much-needed revenue. Even on bad weather days, cars can be seen parked along South Parade with their occupants enjoying the air and views. Additional refreshment places are not required in the town but car parking is at a premium. With public car parking having been built upon by the proposal, where are visitors and shoppers to park? Our streets are already full. The Lake is busy whenever the wind is suitable. There is life in the town. Neither it nor we are dead, yet. A scheme such as that proposed is not the only way to provide the town with a new sailing school, if it were needed. Why did the residents of the town not hear sooner of the competition that gave the developer exclusive rights to work up their proposal? Residents do not like to read in newspapers, plans that effect their lives. It is to be hoped that the Local Authority will redeem itself during the consultation stages. The town does not need additional restaurant, bar or retail facilities. The town copes well enough with those it has. Beach-side siting will detract from those more centrally situated. Information services for Hilbre would be useful. Boat storage is only of use to members. Day-sailors will use trailers and need a slip-way. The need for additional retail and cafe units is questionable. The character of the town will be destroyed by units such as those to be found at New Brighton and many other sea-side towns. 50 new jobs is meaningless. How many would be filled by West Kirby people? Would this number have any impact on the economy of the town? What proportion is this of the total number of jobs in the town? West Kirby does not require regeneration. It is a lively and self-sufficient town. We have everything here that we need to survive on a day-to-day basis. There are some empty retail premises but not an unsightly nor disprortionate number. I'm unaware of any domestic properties in need of regeneration due to unoccupancy. Links between the town centre and waterfront do not need improvement; Dee Lane is approximately 250 yards long. The location is undeniably spectacular. Additional building will detract. The open and outward looking car park maintains the view which will be taken up by the proposal and lost for ever except for five minutes a day by those occupying their hotel rooms. The developer insults the town by saying that it has "faded a little". In the twenty years plus that my wife and I have lived here, we have seen quite the reverse. The hotel building will not add to the architectural quality of the town unless it blends sympathetically. Experience suggests that this will not be the case. Mr Beer confounds himself. The new standards of the 21st century are not necessarily good and when so may not be desirable and they cannot, by definition, be classic. The town does not keep itself to itself. As already stated, it is a busy hub for boaters, sailors, wind-surfers, walkers, bird-watchers and all kinds of other day trippers. We already have visitors for our attractions from all over the world. It is the aim and no other of the proposal to meet the under-provision of hotels on Wirral. The coastal centre of West Kirby is not the place. Hotels have been demolished in New Brighton and other sea-side towns. The visual impact on West Kirby is impossible to gauge from the hopelessly innacurate graphic. The buildings ranged alongside the proposed hotel do not have the proper shape, nor are they arranged correctly. Is the patch of blue in the bottom left-hand corner of the image, another marine lake or high tide? The Hope Street Hotel is perfect because it is in the right place. West Kirby is the wrong place for such a proposal.

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masterplan, West Kirby says...
1:08pm Thu 17 Jan 08

Some more vague images can be found on
http://www.egretwest
.com/

The architects web site, click on projects and find the bouncing bubble.

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lubetkin the II, West Kirby says...
3:23pm Thu 17 Jan 08

Your report omits two necessary items: a ground plan, showing the area to be taken & its footprint, which will affect the entire surrounding environment, and the name of the architect: though from the view printed it appears not to be one, but a 2nd rate jobbing builder instead, producing a 'design' with all the worst features of corporation junk building - uninspired & mediocre in the extreme; this is par for Wirral & its long lasting uglification of the urban environment. Within living memory - apart from Ken Martin - not one living architect of national let alone international reputation has ever received a commision to build in Wirral.
Once again the geriatric philistines who run Wirral have triumphed.

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Sarah, Hoylake says...
7:06pm Thu 17 Jan 08

Typical. Most of the people who have posted here have no vision and live in what is undoubtedly the capital of nimbyism. Wirral cannot continue to exist in a vacuum, it cannot continue to be so isolationist if it wants to move its economy forward. Young people are streaming out of Wirral to go to live and work elsewhere. What will happen when there is no-one left to work, pay taxes and care for people because everyone who lives here is over the age of 80? This day is coming soon to a Wirral near you. Bring this development on I say - then maybe I won't have to spend the rest of my life surrounded by Victor Meldrews who just sit in their window and look at the view. Change is not always bad people!

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Kate, West Kirby says...
8:05pm Thu 17 Jan 08

West Kirby deserves to have a decent hotel that attracts tourism and boosts the local economy. The seafront of West Kirby is shabby and is in need of a revamp - a simple 'tidy up' wouldn't do! Lets give the chance for more people from the UK and further afield to enjoy Hilbre Island, sailing on the marine lake or coming to see the golf open in a few years - all without having to travel over half an hour from Liverpool or Chester!!! Why do we want to put people off when we should be proud of our local community - the Hotel could never sacrifice the beauty of this place. Those who are opposed to it should open their minds -change isn't always a bad thing! I say a big YES to the hotel and only hope that another innovative plan isn't hindered by those who refuse to accept/embrace change.

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Jack Frost, birkenhead says...
8:49pm Thu 17 Jan 08

West Kirby is not faded, it is a classy seaside location which continues to retain its dignity and historical integrity.

One could spend all day walking around this place and still not discover all the parks and unique shops

It can seem a little snobbish at times, but always in a quaint sort of way which will make you smile rather than growl.

This oasis of understatement needs defending. But after reading the posts above they don't need my help, they can look after themselves, however they will have the support of a humble north end boy.

If it ain't broke don't fix it.

Leave WK alone.

T shirts available soon.

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Ethel, West Kirby says...
9:11pm Thu 17 Jan 08

I think it's a bit of a large structure for the very relaxing West Kirby seafront. Seems a stupid idea to build it on the only public carpark left in West Kirby when there is already a problem parking for visitors AND residents. Not much point having a hotel if you get no visitors, and the parking problem has already turned a lot of those away from local businesses, which is a shame as West Kirby was such a popular place for a relaxing seafront walk. Leave West Kirby be, there are enough hotels in the surrounding area!

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A Parent, Wirral says...
9:19pm Thu 17 Jan 08

I know some people would say it's ok to build on a public carpark because we should all be using public transport, but I'd find that incredibly difficult with 3 children and small baby that needs feeding every 3 hours, some people do need to take the car so car parks are still needed - so please don't build on this one! West Kirby is such a nice place as it is ! I don't think it needs extra facilities, it has lots of cafes and shops as it is, and does it really need a hotel ??

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Bionic woman, west kirby says...
10:47pm Thu 17 Jan 08

Preposterous! All for modernity and the future of Wirral but building a grotesque building not in keeping with the area, on the only decent car park in the village. Moronic and absurd. Re educate yourselves in the art of what the public needs and wants and not what your bank balances need.

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Nemo, says...
11:15am Fri 18 Jan 08

Hmmm...so the residents of West Kirby (or even the whole of the Wirral) are 'nimbys' eh? Let's look at a few things first.

Architecture - look at many of the recent developments on the Wirral. They have little or no architectural merit, consisting largely of a pastiche of styles which makes the finished buildings look like a dog's dinner. The artist's impression shown above does not inspire much confidence that this hotel will be any better.

Creation of new jobs - anyone stayed in a new or new-ish hotel recently? Most of the staff seem to be of Eastern European origin. I have no problem with them coming here to work, pay their taxes, etc., but if the pattern is repeated here, it is not going to do much for the local employment situation, is it?

'Low cost' hotel accomodation. Depends on what you call 'low cost' doesn't it? Even a bog-standard Travel Inn room or equivalent can cost £50 per night, with no meals included. It is highly unlikely that this hotel is going to cater for even that sort of market; no, more like the £70 - £100 per night (or more) market, and how many visitors in that bracket does West Kirby attract on a regular basis? I don't know, but I bet no-one else does either, and to build a hotel like this on the basis of inaccurate or non-existent information must risk dooming it to failure.

I have no crystal ball, but if I was a betting person, I'd wager a few pounds on this ending up as another expensive, disruptive and unnecessary 'white elephant'. John Betjeman was campaigning against badly thought out local planning and speculative building 60 years ago. It looks as though nothing much has changed ...

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Dante, West Kirby says...
1:16pm Fri 18 Jan 08

Nemo- Exactly. Mr Bollo- Nimbyism is when people are willing to have something occur so long as it does not effect them or take place in their locality, IE. a Power Station. If the Council think that the Dee Lane car park is surplus to requirements, and believe me it isn't, then dig it up and landscape the area. That would be more agreeable on the eye for local residents and visitors than bricks and mortar, but unfortunately it would not have the same financial attraction for either the Council or the Developers.

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no nimby, wirral says...
2:02pm Fri 18 Jan 08

This is not nimbyism, the proposal does not fit the area. The justification for building the hotel is to pay for the development of a new sailing school. The architects selected seem to be very cutting edge, proposing the sort of stuff that looks like it would be torn down in a few years time. Looking at there web site I could not find any pictures of an actual building that had been completed, most of their work seems to be concepts for local authorities.

Have a look for yourselves for some more detailed image on "bdonline.co.uk" and search for "egret west", then tell us if you think that we are still nimby's.

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Mr Bollo, says...
2:13pm Fri 18 Jan 08

Dante, to quote one of the earlier posters

'The Hope Street Hotel is perfect because it is in the right place. West Kirby is the wrong place for such a proposal.'

i.e. not in my back yard...

And I'd like to ask Ethel, where exactly are all these hotels in the surrounding area that she talks about?

Perhaps if there were somewhere decent to stay in WK, it might attract many more visitors and become a serious viable holiday destination - after all, it has a fine beach, excellent views etc. This development could help the economy of not just WK but also the whole of Wirral.

Why are people in places like WK and NB so backward looking? Why the small-minded conservatism? Why do they automatically react to any such proposals with fear and mistrust? Why can't we capitalise on the fine natural resources available in Wirral? What ever happened to the Victorian entrepreneurial spirit that built places like WK? Pitiful.

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Nemo, says...
2:34pm Fri 18 Jan 08

...Why do they automatically react to any such proposals with fear and mistrust?...

Out of bitter experience in most cases.

...What ever happened to the Victorian entrepreneurial spirit that built places like WK?...

Victorians built, in many cases, with philanthropic motives not, like too many present-day 'developers', purely for profit and/or personal gain.

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hyro, Wirral says...
5:22pm Fri 18 Jan 08

The Victorians/Edwardian

s built the hydro, which was knocked down in the 60's and replaced with Hilbre Court. Who would stay in WK in Jan?

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Huck, Sydney says...
12:14am Sat 19 Jan 08

A new hotel would be nice, but who is going to develop the weather. Without the shops,restaurants etc. of Chester or Liverpool a large hotel in West Kirby would be empty for most of the year.

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no nimby, Wirral says...
12:39pm Sat 19 Jan 08

Plans for another luxury Hotel and golf resort have been announced in the Echo on the 17th, under "Top golf resort is teed up!". Is there demand for two luxury hotels in West Kirby and Hoylake? Also the controversial Neptune development plans for New Brighton also include plans for a budget hotel, does the council have hotel fever?

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Edward and Tubbs, The Local Shop, West Kirby says...
12:14pm Sun 20 Jan 08

What's going on? What's all this shouting? This is a local town for local people. There's nothing for you here.

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adam, wallasey says...
12:32pm Sun 20 Jan 08

it a great idea it might atrack torests

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Super Nimby, West Kirby says...
4:59pm Sun 20 Jan 08

Well done Adam. We now know the mental state of people who are in favour of this proposal.

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C. Bresson, Former resident says...
10:28am Mon 21 Jan 08

In response to some of the short sighted objections raised, a couple of quotes from Nobel Laureate Sir Medawar spring to mind;
'Today the world changes so quickly that in growing up we take leave not just of youth but of the world we were young in. I suppose we all realise the degree to which fear and resentment of what is new is really a lament for the memories of our childhood.'
'To deride the hopes of progress is the ultimate fatuity, the last word in poverty of spirit and meanness of mind.'
Wake up West Kirby! Your youth and talent will continue to flee if the area does not move with the times & offer an environment that is enticing to the young and/or ambitious

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Steve, Wirral says...
10:36am Mon 21 Jan 08

Leave it as it is. It is like parkgate, great to walk through although yo have to park miles away. We do not need a Blackpool, build the hotel on the golf course.

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sarah at carpenter, says...
11:04am Mon 21 Jan 08

lubetkin the II wrote:
Your report omits two necessary items: a ground plan, showing the area to be taken & its footprint, which will affect the entire surrounding environment, and the name of the architect: though from the view printed it appears not to be one, but a 2nd rate jobbing builder instead, producing a \'design\' with all the worst features of corporation junk building - uninspired & mediocre in the extreme; this is par for Wirral & its long lasting uglification of the urban environment. Within living memory - apart from Ken Martin - not one living architect of national let alone international reputation has ever received a commision to build in Wirral.
Once again the geriatric philistines who run Wirral have triumphed.

From the developer. Thank you for your comments. Please be assured that the architectural practice commissioned by Carpenter for this scheme is Studio Egret West; a young, ambitious and innovative practice, with a growing international reputation. A period of public consultation follows, and you are invited to email the developer directly at westkirbysail@gmail.

com

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sarah at carpenter, says...
11:12am Mon 21 Jan 08

Mr Bollo wrote:
Dante, to quote one of the earlier posters

'The Hope Street Hotel is perfect because it is in the right place. West Kirby is the wrong place for such a proposal.'

i.e. not in my back yard...

And I'd like to ask Ethel, where exactly are all these hotels in the surrounding area that she talks about?

Perhaps if there were somewhere decent to stay in WK, it might attract many more visitors and become a serious viable holiday destination - after all, it has a fine beach, excellent views etc. This development could help the economy of not just WK but also the whole of Wirral.

Why are people in places like WK and NB so backward looking? Why the small-minded conservatism? Why do they automatically react to any such proposals with fear and mistrust? Why can't we capitalise on the fine natural resources available in Wirral? What ever happened to the Victorian entrepreneurial spirit that built places like WK? Pitiful.

Thank you for taking the time to voice your support. Carpenter has commissioned a scheme to enhance the quality of life in West Kirby and the surrounding areas and, during this period of public consultation, invites you to email the developers directly at westkirbysail@gmail.
com

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sarah at carpenter, says...
11:18am Mon 21 Jan 08

PLEASED from Hoylake wrote:
I am so pleased that someone is prepared and committed to invest in West Kirby & Hoylake. This is such a refreshing change and will benefit the area immensely and put North / West Wirral on the map. Bring it on!

The issues over car parking are relatively easily overcome and should be offset by people in general becoming far more environmentally conscious in not using their cars or (far more cheaply - using taxis!).

I wish the scheme GOOD LUCK! and hope that local Councillors and our M.P. back the scheme for the general good.

Thank you for taking the time to post your comments supporting the hotel proposal. Carpenter has commissioned a young, innovative and ambitious architectural practice, with a growing international reputation, to deliver a scheme to enhance the quality of life in West Kirby and Wirral. During this period of consultation the developers will be happy to hear from you directly at westkirbysail@gmail.
com

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sarah at carpenter, says...
11:23am Mon 21 Jan 08

dissapointed wrote:
I attended a meeting to discuss the Hoylake and West Kirby master plan at a meeting in Westbourne hall some time ago. The proposed hotel was discussed at that time and the overwhelming majority of local residents were against the proposal. This was due to the loss of the council car parking, which is always full on busy weekends and holidays. To replace the parking it was proposed to build multi story car parks on Morissions or by the fire station, this would help to destroy the appeal of the area, note that parking replacements are vaguely mentioned in the article.

At the time of the meeting we were assured that this was just a proposal and would go no further, however it appear that the council has completely ignored the views of the residents, and has had a "competition" to find the best proposal for a hotel.

It looks like they are selling a valuable asset to the highest bidder, how much are the developers paying for the car park? If the hotel is not a success can it be converted into valuable apartments?

Thank you for taking the time to post your comments on the hotel proposal. Carpenter is sympathetic to the concerns of local residents and, during this period of consultation, the developers will be happy to hear from you directly at westkirbysail@gmail.
com

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sarah at carpenter, says...
12:30pm Mon 21 Jan 08

Carpenter Investments thanks you all for your comments on the West Kirby Hotel proposal. In the interests of public consultation, the developers invite you to email them directly at westkirbysail@gmail.

com to clarify information and to voice your concern or support.

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Papa Lazarous, West Kirby says...
12:31pm Mon 21 Jan 08

Hello Dave!

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Dante, West Kirby says...
12:50pm Mon 21 Jan 08

C. Bresson- Thank you for the quotes, most informative. Having never heard of Sir Medawar before, I took the trouble of looking him up on the Internet. As usual all the answers were provided, all except one. Despite a diligent search , I could find no evidence that Sir Medawar had ever visited West Kirby. Now I realise that does not prevent the gentleman having a philosophical view on progress in general, but whether that is relevant to proposed redevelopment of West Kirby sea front is open to debate. You mention about youth, the talented and the ambitious, fleeing the area unless we move with the times. I think it's time to reiterate what is proposed here. It is a hotel with a bar , spa, restaurant and shops, not, as far I know, a means of studying the sciences or engineering. Of course it's always a handy tool to quote so called intellectuals, it sort of gives you an air of superiority, and in this particular case ,for those who disagree with you, a feeling that they are some kind of stick in mud dinosaurs, but in the end it all boils down to a matter of taste. For instance, you are a former resident, and therefore familiar with West Kirby. If the proposal were to built flats and a hotel complex on Hilbre Island, would you agree with that? If not why not? It could be considered progress by some intellectual quoting ex resident. Or perhaps you may think it wouldn't look very nice, even ugly. In that case you would be in exactly the same boat as the people who are against this particular proposal, they don't think it's very nice, they think it's ugly. As I say it's a matter of taste, nothing too complicated, just taste.

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Helen, says...
5:35pm Mon 21 Jan 08

The proposed hotel is not just 'a bar and a restaurant', as Dante suggests, nor is it simply 'a matter of taste' whether you like it or not. It is a crucial matter of the local economy and our community, of creating an attractive, lively and economically vibrant town. A great hotel would be the focal point for that, bringing visitors and residents alike and celebrating our beautiful coast, and it is depressing to read comments from people who resist the pull into the modern world. Unless you make a special effort to break the cycle, the next stage for a sleepy town is dead - and I, along with so many other contemporary people in West Kirby, want to fight that all the way. It is in all our interests to approach this opportunity with an open mind, a big heart, correct understanding and a sense of excitement. Like the lady said, bring it on!

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Jim, er ... West Kirby says...
5:39pm Mon 21 Jan 08

If the car park must be sold off and developed how about a Pitch and Putt? :)

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There is an alternative, west kirby says...
7:16pm Mon 21 Jan 08

Helen wrote

A great hotel would be the focal point for that, bringing visitors and residents alike and celebrating our beautiful coast

.

This could be acheived by upgrading the sailing school with an iconic modern building, including resturants etc, without aleinating the local day trippers by removing the only car park. Visitors will be able to stay in the proposed new golf resort and could dine out in a spectacular location. I'm sure that alternative funding will be possible to complete the redevelopment of the sailing school without spoiling the area.

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mally jones, perth australia says...
5:48am Tue 22 Jan 08

For heavens sake leave West Kirby as it is, thats part of its charm, unspoilt !!! not glarey and glitzie like other seaside resorts, first it will be the big hotel then slowly but surely it will be all the other trashy resort comodoties, given 10 years time it will be another New Brighton, we just don`t need it, put a new hotel on Marine Pde and let the hotel patrons jump on the train to come to West Kirby, thus give the railways a much need boost, and keeping some of the traffic congestion out of West Kirby during the summer months.

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Helen, says...
7:02pm Tue 22 Jan 08

Re iconic building... a building on the Sailing School site could be no bigger than the current one, or it would reduce wind speeds on the lake. It would therefore be an iconic shed. And has no-one noticed that the current Sailing School AND TOILETS interfere with the view already, and are far from lovely? And how lovely are a car park, recycling bins and a supermarket? Why the fight to preserve pride of place on the seafront for cars, toilets and rubbish, when we could create a great meeting place for PEOPLE? As for the hotel on the golf course, great for golfers, but would it be part of West Kirby's daily life like a hotel on the Prom could be? We have been offered an iconic seafront building - across the road from the Sailing School. Is it beyond us to work out where else to park, recycle and go to the loo, or are we so stuck in a rut that the investment is wasted on us anyway?, If we value this coast and this view so much, we should celebrate it and invite others to do the same. Come on, West Kirby: people keep telling you to wake up!

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sarah at Carpenter Investments, says...
10:05pm Tue 22 Jan 08

From the developer: Both 'There Is An Alternative' and Helen write about the redevelopment of the sailing school. Carpenter has in fact proposed an iconic, low-rise building to house the new school, as 'Alternative' suggests, but has reflected the need to maintain optimum wind speeds on the lake, as Helen points out, by controlling the building's size. A number of windsurfers have raised this issue of as well. I hope this goes some way to addressing the concerns you both raise, and add that the developers are happy for you to email them directly at westkirbysail@gmail.
com.

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Sarah at Carpenter Investments, says...
10:13pm Tue 22 Jan 08

adam wrote:
it a great idea it might atrack torests

Thank you for your support, Adam. The developers are interested to hear people's views and can be emailed directly at westkirbysail@gmail.
com, if you wish.

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Sarah at CarpenterInvestments, says...
10:20pm Tue 22 Jan 08

Mr Bollo wrote:
Dante, to quote one of the earlier posters

'The Hope Street Hotel is perfect because it is in the right place. West Kirby is the wrong place for such a proposal.'

i.e. not in my back yard...

And I'd like to ask Ethel, where exactly are all these hotels in the surrounding area that she talks about?

Perhaps if there were somewhere decent to stay in WK, it might attract many more visitors and become a serious viable holiday destination - after all, it has a fine beach, excellent views etc. This development could help the economy of not just WK but also the whole of Wirral.

Why are people in places like WK and NB so backward looking? Why the small-minded conservatism? Why do they automatically react to any such proposals with fear and mistrust? Why can't we capitalise on the fine natural resources available in Wirral? What ever happened to the Victorian entrepreneurial spirit that built places like WK? Pitiful.

Thank you for your support and for taking the time to post your views. During this period of public consultation the developers are also available directly at westkirbysail@gmail.
com ,should you wish.

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sarah at Carpenter Investments, says...
10:28pm Tue 22 Jan 08

A Parent wrote:
I know some people would say it's ok to build on a public carpark because we should all be using public transport, but I'd find that incredibly difficult with 3 children and small baby that needs feeding every 3 hours, some people do need to take the car so car parks are still needed - so please don't build on this one! West Kirby is such a nice place as it is ! I don't think it needs extra facilities, it has lots of cafes and shops as it is, and does it really need a hotel ??

From the developer:We are sympathetic to the concerns of the large number of families who live in West Kirby, and do not seek to make life any more complicated for them. Your views, however you feel about this proposal, will be read and considered by us, and you can email us directly at westkirbysail@gmail.
com, if you wish. Thank you for your interest.

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sarah at Carpenter Investments, says...
11:01pm Tue 22 Jan 08

John Hutchinson wrote:
New life does not need to be breathed into West Kirby. The residents are quite happy with the amount of life that we already see. Some would say that with the number of cafes and bars currently in the town, we see too much life. Our streets are busy throughout the day and long into the night. On any clear day, the town is visited by large numbers of day-trippers bringing much-needed revenue. Even on bad weather days, cars can be seen parked along South Parade with their occupants enjoying the air and views. Additional refreshment places are not required in the town but car parking is at a premium. With public car parking having been built upon by the proposal, where are visitors and shoppers to park? Our streets are already full.

The Lake is busy whenever the wind is suitable. There is life in the town. Neither it nor we are dead, yet.

A scheme such as that proposed is not the only way to provide the town with a new sailing school, if it were needed.

Why did the residents of the town not hear sooner of the competition that gave the developer exclusive rights to work up their proposal? Residents do not like to read in newspapers, plans that effect their lives. It is to be hoped that the Local Authority will redeem itself during the consultation stages.

The town does not need additional restaurant, bar or retail facilities. The town copes well enough with those it has. Beach-side siting will detract from those more centrally situated. Information services for Hilbre would be useful. Boat storage is only of use to members. Day-sailors will use trailers and need a slip-way. The need for additional retail and cafe units is questionable. The character of the town will be destroyed by units such as those to be found at New Brighton and many other sea-side towns. 50 new jobs is meaningless. How many would be filled by West Kirby people? Would this number have any impact on the economy of the town? What proportion is this of the total number of jobs in the town?

West Kirby does not require regeneration. It is a lively and self-sufficient town. We have everything here that we need to survive on a day-to-day basis. There are some empty retail premises but not an unsightly nor disprortionate number. I\'m unaware of any domestic properties in need of regeneration due to unoccupancy. Links between the town centre and waterfront do not need improvement; Dee Lane is approximately 250 yards long.

The location is undeniably spectacular. Additional building will detract. The open and outward looking car park maintains the view which will be taken up by the proposal and lost for ever except for five minutes a day by those occupying their hotel rooms. The developer insults the town by saying that it has \"faded a little\". In the twenty years plus that my wife and I have lived here, we have seen quite the reverse.

The hotel building will not add to the architectural quality of the town unless it blends sympathetically. Experience suggests that this will not be the case.

Mr Beer confounds himself. The new standards of the 21st century are not necessarily good and when so may not be desirable and they cannot, by definition, be classic. The town does not keep itself to itself. As already stated, it is a busy hub for boaters, sailors, wind-surfers, walkers, bird-watchers and all kinds of other day trippers. We already have visitors for our attractions from all over the world. It is the aim and no other of the proposal to meet the under-provision of hotels on Wirral. The coastal centre of West Kirby is not the place. Hotels have been demolished in New Brighton and other sea-side towns.

The visual impact on West Kirby is impossible to gauge from the hopelessly innacurate graphic. The buildings ranged alongside the proposed hotel do not have the proper shape, nor are they arranged correctly. Is the patch of blue in the bottom left-hand corner of the image, another marine lake or high tide?

The Hope Street Hotel is perfect because it is in the right place. West Kirby is the wrong place for such a proposal.

From the developer: Thank you for listing your points so clearly. While, superficially, we agree on very little, we do agree on some fundamental points: that the town is spectacularly situated, that our links with Hilbre and the sea are important and that the town inspires great affection and respect - and that's in us, as well as in you. What we clearly disagree on is how we envisage it flourishing in the future. I wouldn't presume to try to change your mind in a few sentences, but would ask you to consider our basic premise, which is to celebrate the seafront as the natural place to be in West Kirby; a place for people to meet and linger. In turn, we have also noted your strong desire to maintain the town's character and charm and would like to reassure you that we share it. We have proposed a scheme in the true sense of the word 'classic' -ie, something of excellence - not because we wish to insult the town, but because we love it. I hope we may begin to understand each other and, as part of the consultation period, your views are welcome directly at westkirbysail@gmail.

com, if you wish.

[quote][bold]John Hutchinson[/bold] wrote: New life does not need to be breathed into West Kirby. The residents are quite happy with the amount of life that we already see. Some would say that with the number of cafes and bars currently in the town, we see too much life. Our streets are busy throughout the day and long into the night. On any clear day, the town is visited by large numbers of day-trippers bringing much-needed revenue. Even on bad weather days, cars can be seen parked along South Parade with their occupants enjoying the air and views. Additional refreshment places are not required in the town but car parking is at a premium. With public car parking having been built upon by the proposal, where are visitors and shoppers to park? Our streets are already full. The Lake is busy whenever the wind is suitable. There is life in the town. Neither it nor we are dead, yet. A scheme such as that proposed is not the only way to provide the town with a new sailing school, if it were needed. Why did the residents of the town not hear sooner of the competition that gave the developer exclusive rights to work up their proposal? Residents do not like to read in newspapers, plans that effect their lives. It is to be hoped that the Local Authority will redeem itself during the consultation stages. The town does not need additional restaurant, bar or retail facilities. The town copes well enough with those it has. Beach-side siting will detract from those more centrally situated. Information services for Hilbre would be useful. Boat storage is only of use to members. Day-sailors will use trailers and need a slip-way. The need for additional retail and cafe units is questionable. The character of the town will be destroyed by units such as those to be found at New Brighton and many other sea-side towns. 50 new jobs is meaningless. How many would be filled by West Kirby people? Would this number have any impact on the economy of the town? What proportion is this of the total number of jobs in the town? West Kirby does not require regeneration. It is a lively and self-sufficient town. We have everything here that we need to survive on a day-to-day basis. There are some empty retail premises but not an unsightly nor disprortionate number. I\'m unaware of any domestic properties in need of regeneration due to unoccupancy. Links between the town centre and waterfront do not need improvement; Dee Lane is approximately 250 yards long. The location is undeniably spectacular. Additional building will detract. The open and outward looking car park maintains the view which will be taken up by the proposal and lost for ever except for five minutes a day by those occupying their hotel rooms. The developer insults the town by saying that it has \"faded a little\". In the twenty years plus that my wife and I have lived here, we have seen quite the reverse. The hotel building will not add to the architectural quality of the town unless it blends sympathetically. Experience suggests that this will not be the case. Mr Beer confounds himself. The new standards of the 21st century are not necessarily good and when so may not be desirable and they cannot, by definition, be classic. The town does not keep itself to itself. As already stated, it is a busy hub for boaters, sailors, wind-surfers, walkers, bird-watchers and all kinds of other day trippers. We already have visitors for our attractions from all over the world. It is the aim and no other of the proposal to meet the under-provision of hotels on Wirral. The coastal centre of West Kirby is not the place. Hotels have been demolished in New Brighton and other sea-side towns. The visual impact on West Kirby is impossible to gauge from the hopelessly innacurate graphic. The buildings ranged alongside the proposed hotel do not have the proper shape, nor are they arranged correctly. Is the patch of blue in the bottom left-hand corner of the image, another marine lake or high tide? The Hope Street Hotel is perfect because it is in the right place. West Kirby is the wrong place for such a proposal. [/quote] From the developer: Thank you for listing your points so clearly. While, superficially, we agree on very little, we do agree on some fundamental points: that the town is spectacularly situated, that our links with Hilbre and the sea are important and that the town inspires great affection and respect - and that's in us, as well as in you. What we clearly disagree on is how we envisage it flourishing in the future. I wouldn't presume to try to change your mind in a few sentences, but would ask you to consider our basic premise, which is to celebrate the seafront as the natural place to be in West Kirby; a place for people to meet and linger. In turn, we have also noted your strong desire to maintain the town's character and charm and would like to reassure you that we share it. We have proposed a scheme in the true sense of the word 'classic' -ie, something of excellence - not because we wish to insult the town, but because we love it. I hope we may begin to understand each other and, as part of the consultation period, your views are welcome directly at westkirbysail@gmail. com, if you wish.

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teki, Birkenhead says...
11:58am Wed 23 Jan 08

"Your views are velcome...but totally futile!!"

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Dante, West Kirby says...
3:03pm Wed 23 Jan 08

Sarah- Spare me the bovine manure. Carpenter Investments are not putting this plan forward for altruistic reasons because they love West Kirby, they smell a profit, as do the Council. Helen and yourself make a point about the development being' a place to meet','a place to linger', what a sweet picture you both conjure up. Tell me, is this including or excluding the 25 to 30 pubs, wine bars, cafes, and restaurants, all within easy walking distance of each other, that already exist. We of course get the regeneration argument, it will bring in visitors. Have you ever been in the town on a half decent day? No, I thought not. Well, the number of visitors certainly makes a mockery of Helen's assertion that West Kirby is a somnolent, so close to death town, it's about breathe its last breath. Unless of course, naturally, it embraces this typical example of tawdry, tasteless, vulgar 21st century, modern day tat. Thanks, but no thanks.

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Prince Charles, living in the past says...
4:42pm Wed 23 Jan 08

Monstrous carbuncle...blah blah blah

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Windsurfer and Resident, West Kirby says...
12:03pm Thu 24 Jan 08

To the developer (Carpenter Investments): Thank you for responding to these messages, and inviting questions. As a marine lake user and also a resident living near the prom can you provide answers to the following questions.

1. Marine Lake/Sailing School

a) It is clear from the plans that this existing buildings will be replaced, however will the new facilities match those that are already available (Sounds stupid but the Crosby marine lake development has excluded the existing windsurfing shop) ?

b) What extra new facilities are being provided to Marine Lake users and the General Public, on the Marine Lake site?

c) Of the 10 million investment how much is being spent on the Sailing School/Marine lake?

d) Will the marine lake facilities still be owned by the council?

e) As a matter of interest will the lifeboat be moving?

2.Hotel

a) Parking: What are options for alternative parking arrangements,can you confirm that they do notinclude multi storey parking?

b) Visual Impact: What is the estimated height of the hotel be in proportion to the adjacent housing in Salisbury Avenue and Dee Lane (Same height, twice as high etc)?

c) References/Architect
ure Style: Can you provide names and addresses of similar finished developments that have been designed by your architects - Studio Egret West?

I would welcome any answers to be placed directly on this forum, or to provide details of when and where they will be available publicly. Thanks.

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Dante, West Kirby says...
4:33pm Thu 24 Jan 08

Windsurfer- I cannot believe you haven't actually visited the Studio Egret West site. Go on come clean, you have haven't you, and your question about Architectural Style was a bit tongue in cheek, because you think they are having a joke and after you've had a laugh they then show you some of their real designs. No you havent been there. Well type it in, then Projects, then Size. I highly recommend the Colchester Department Store, the Hanley Canalside Quarter, the Caso Mela Bradford, and of course their effort for WK. That one could answer your question about height.

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Openness, West Kirby says...
5:17pm Thu 24 Jan 08

Dear Sarah from Carpenter Investments.

What is the reason you are directing comments and feedback into a private email ?

Are you proposing a public consultation or a private one?

Finally, how much scope is there for changing things and how much of this is to persuade us of pre-existing plans?

Thanks -

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The Insider, Wirral says...
6:14pm Thu 24 Jan 08

SO the architects are Studio Egret West, eh?

That wouldn't be a pairing of Christophe Egret and David West, would?

M Egret, it should be known, was until the collapse of London's Alsop Associates, the "Project Architect", alongside David West whose brief was as "Storyteller" delivering "the dream" , of the extraordinarily ill-fated Fourth Grace scheme in Liverpool.

Yup - looks like they've got their heads in The Clouds again...

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sarah at carpenter, says...
6:56pm Thu 24 Jan 08

Dear Openness
There will naturally be public consultation shortly. The provision of this email is for any enquiries in the meantime. Thank you for your concern.

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sarah at carpenter, says...
7:18pm Thu 24 Jan 08

Windsurfer and Resident wrote:
To the developer (Carpenter Investments): Thank you for responding to these messages, and inviting questions. As a marine lake user and also a resident living near the prom can you provide answers to the following questions.

1. Marine Lake/Sailing School

a) It is clear from the plans that this existing buildings will be replaced, however will the new facilities match those that are already available (Sounds stupid but the Crosby marine lake development has excluded the existing windsurfing shop) ?

b) What extra new facilities are being provided to Marine Lake users and the General Public, on the Marine Lake site?

c) Of the 10 million investment how much is being spent on the Sailing School/Marine lake?

d) Will the marine lake facilities still be owned by the council?

e) As a matter of interest will the lifeboat be moving?

2.Hotel

a) Parking: What are options for alternative parking arrangements,can you confirm that they do notinclude multi storey parking?

b) Visual Impact: What is the estimated height of the hotel be in proportion to the adjacent housing in Salisbury Avenue and Dee Lane (Same height, twice as high etc)?

c) References/Architect
ure Style: Can you provide names and addresses of similar finished developments that have been designed by your architects - Studio Egret West?

I would welcome any answers to be placed directly on this forum, or to provide details of when and where they will be available publicly. Thanks.

Thank you for your interest. The details you request will be available in public, as part of a consultation period to be announced shortly.

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teki, Birkenhead says...
8:37pm Thu 24 Jan 08

Dear Sarah. Are you a robot?

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Openness, West Kirby says...
12:45am Fri 25 Jan 08

Dear Sarah from Carpenter Investments.

Thanks for your reply but you didn't answer my questions. I assume you support an open and public consultation?

2/ What issues can the consultation influence? (given that the 'competition' has been 'won' and the initial contract awarded). And what issues are you trying to convince are good ideas because they are going to happen anyway? Just start with listing 3-5 main ones.

Its difficult to know if you are genuinely interested in listening or just PR. Currently all signs point to PR which is worrying and you'll have a 'new brighton' on your hands.

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Ivor Biggun, Birken-Vegas says...
10:39pm Fri 25 Jan 08

teki wrote:
I don't see the point. I take it it's being built on the car park. Oh well,s**t happens.

Teki, is that you in the picture with the shades on? Looking as shady as ever? You spotted any Dog-turders lately? We've got our eyes on you!

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teki, Birkenhead says...
9:31am Sat 26 Jan 08

Dogturders,such a lovely word and not used enough!

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george, west kirby says...
10:45am Sat 26 Jan 08

I live near the proposed site, And I personally think it's a great idea. This will bring alot more jobs into west kirby, It'll also help the local shops and the general area. west kirby is a great place. and it's about time we done something to attract more tourists to the area.

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no nimby, west kirby says...
11:58am Sat 26 Jan 08

george wrote:
I live near the proposed site, And I personally think it's a great idea. This will bring alot more jobs into west kirby, It'll also help the local shops and the general area. west kirby is a great place. and it's about time we done something to attract more tourists to the area.

Would you still want it if the width of the prom pavement was reduced to allow for extra car parking, and I would not be surprised if it also went pay and display.

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ted, west kirby says...
1:24pm Sun 27 Jan 08

George,

I live near the proposed site too. Mid- January and a near full car-park all week-end! This will be an issue.

Also if you West Kirby is so in need of 'jobs' why is giving our only car-park away for free the only way to create them? I can think of lots of other ways jobs could be created for the same investment. If someone promises 50 jobs can they do what they like cos that is clearly your priority? Are you hoping to land job there or something?

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Tina, West Kirby says...
12:50pm Mon 28 Jan 08

I have been a resident of West Kirby for many years and really love living here. I live opposite the car park where the proposed hotel is to be built and can not believe that we have not been consulted once. We have had to read about it in the papers and hear natches of information. If this is the way they are going to perform business I am very worried about them setting up a business in West Kirby. They are not thinking about the local people only the jangle of money in their pockets. I am unsure how a hotel is going to benefit the residents of West Kirby, we did use to have a hotel called The Dee Hotel,which is a lovely buidling and with a little attention could be great again. We have lots of cafes and bars and perfectly good gym and swimming pool for public use, so where is the benefit for West Kirby. We have hunderds of visitors every week and in the summer it is busting, bringing in money to the local shops and facilities. Why arent people thinking of the day trippers who bring lots of business to West Kirby, where will they park. People use that car park for that and when Morrisons is over flowing which it is many a day, where will they park? Where the proposed site is is on Dee Lane and as is the name it is a lane and not a wide road which could not accomodate another building on it. Come on West Kirby residents think carefully how much a n hotel would benefit you.

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resident, wirral says...
1:00pm Mon 28 Jan 08

I have stayed in many exclusive hotels and not one has on its boundary a Morrisons supermarket, surely this will deter people staying in an exclusive hotel.

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Terry, Wirral says...
1:03pm Mon 28 Jan 08

I have stayed in many exclusive hotels and not one has a Morrisons been on the boundary I am sure this will deter the exclusive visitors they are promising.

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Enthusiastic Teen, West Kirby says...
8:07pm Mon 28 Jan 08

I don't understand what you're all making such a fuss about! I think it's a great idea.

It'll only make West Kirby nicer. And how can ANYONE think that West Kirby doesn't need any more life ?? It doesn't need to be noisy or disruptive . . . just more interesting! And who would complain about more interesting?

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West Kirby Resident, Wirral says...
8:12pm Mon 28 Jan 08

I think it's a great idea to have a hotel in West Kirby. Half the population spends it's time in Morrisons anyway, so it's a bout time they go sit somewhere else. As for looking out at Morrisons, the Hope St. Hotel looks out at an old council building, and it didn't stop anybody going there!

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no nimby, West Kirby says...
10:48pm Mon 28 Jan 08

Tina, take a look at the news section on councilor David Eldertons web site and you may get some idea where this has come from. Just search for his name on google.

He's the local councilor for West Kirby and Thurstaston Ward and is also a member of the regeneration commitee who made the descision on the contract with the developers. Have a look and see what you think.

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change inevitable, west kirby says...
11:06pm Mon 28 Jan 08

Change is inevitable get over it and grow up

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Resident, West Kirby says...
11:25am Tue 29 Jan 08

David Eldertons web site is worth a look to prevent hysteria setting in. This project is a welcome addition to West Kirby and will benefit multiple age groups from youngsters who will learn sailing/windsurfing skills in a more pleasant environment throught to those who would wish to partake of refreshment or spa facilities at a quality hotel. Residents should embrace this project.

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Jingle Jangle, West Kirby says...
12:28pm Tue 29 Jan 08

Lets face it. Money may not be able to buy you love but it can get a free car park!

The reason residents haven't been properly consulted is that they aren't involved in making the money from this venture so will have very different priorities and ideas.

I also can't see why change for changes sake is so cooool miss enthusiastic teen! I remember Britney Spears coming out pre-Iraq to enthusiastically tell everyone we should just do whatever the president says. Guess what teeny! Sometimes the greedy and powerful don't always act in your interests despite what they say!

Try asking for a youth club! ;)

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Jane, Oxton Wirral says...
4:21pm Tue 29 Jan 08

My vote is for the Hotel. Brilliant news. I am a long-term Wirral resident and local business woman. The hotel would provide me with a great local venue for meetings conferences and accommodation. What a pleasure it would be to show off our beautiful coastline from a convivial setting. This development would be a real plus for me. I don't currently live in West Kirby but often visit. If this development goes ahead I will seriously consider moving there.

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teki, Birkenhead says...
9:00pm Tue 29 Jan 08

What? You'd move somewhere because it's got a hotel? Are you stupid? Or do you think we are?

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teki, Birkenhead says...
9:17pm Tue 29 Jan 08

Business woman? Business woman? And what,pray tell,business are you in? The "I'm incredibly stupid business"??!! Of course Oxton is known for its huge hotel complexs's,which would explain why you live there now. Perhaps nearby The Bowler Hat,very popular in its day. But not so popular these days...I wonder why... I would be interested in what business you are in though. Just so I can avoid it.

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Dante, West Kirby says...
11:06am Wed 30 Jan 08

I was beginning to feel a little concerned about Sarah 'at carpenter'. Not a peep since last Thursday. However I feel Teki may have hit the nail on the head when he asked, 'Sarah my dear, are you a robot?' It could explain the sudden demise of the enthusiastic pasting, sticking, and little comments made in answer to peoples questions. The effort required must have been quite something, even for a robot. My original conclusion that it was merely a case of recharging the batteries was obviously wrong, that only takes a few hours, so I have concluded the problem is more serious, a circuit board malfunction perhaps. However I feel such is the desire of Carpenter Investments to keep the people of West Kirby in 'the loop' so to speak, with regards to their intentions, Sarah will soon be repaired. When that happens I hope she will be fully programmed to answer, on this forum as requested, the pertinent questions posed by Windsurfer, Openness, and others.

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Jane, Oxton Wirral says...
8:22pm Wed 30 Jan 08

Further to my post yesterday I thought I should clarify my comment. My family and I have been visiting West Kirby now for many years enjoying the fabulous location for coastal walks etc and shopping in the town. In the last 5-6 years we have noticed real changes and improvements in the town. Ashton Park has been greatly improved and is now beautifully kept. The town appears vibrant and welcoming with the new additions of the bars shops restaurants and cafes. I understand from friends in the area that the Council has extensive plans for further re-development of the town with plans to restore the lovely Victorian covered walkways amongst others. These improvements along with the proposed hotel would in my opinion be great additions to the area as would a new improved sailing school with cafe. My children could make good use of this facility as they become of the requisite age. For all these reasons we may well be considering a move to the area.

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Dave, Heswall says...
10:07am Thu 31 Jan 08

I think this is a magnificent idea for West Kirby and Wirral. It is understandable that people are fearful of change and progress. It is not difficult to remember the hysteria in relation to the introduction of wheelie bins! I have family and friends living around the country - it would be fabulous to invite them to stay at a prestegious, seaside local hotel when they visit. The improvements to the sailing school are much needed and will benefit the wider community. Come on Wirral stop being so negative let's up our game!

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dave, Heswall says...
10:28am Thu 31 Jan 08

It is unfortunate that some contributors feel it necessary to resort to personal attacks / rudeness in respect of opinions that differ from their own. This is rude and uncivilised in any debate. We hopefully still live in a democracy - preferably with a luxury seasided hotel.

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Heswall Mind, westkirby says...
2:27pm Thu 31 Jan 08

Dave, I'd love a big hotel and shopping complex in Heswall and maybe a funfair in the old village would be good for kids at week-end? Also be easier for your friends to stay in Heswall than travel down to WK.

Then I can go back to my unspoilt town and admire the views we still have and get a free parking space!

Joan - same really - I'd like to impress some clients of mine so was hoping Oxton could open an oriental theme park- my kids would love it also! I need a reason to visit oxton really.

Idiots! Your selfish reasoning is meaningless.

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teki, Birkenhead says...
2:37pm Thu 31 Jan 08

So progess is a hotel? And £10million isn't going to buy a top hotel and I bet the council have to cough up to 25% sweetners. I shall try to curb my abuse,there really is no need for it. And there really is no neeed for a hotel in West Kirby. It ain't broke so why try and fix it?

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Happy, West Kirby says...
4:01pm Thu 31 Jan 08

I like 'Pleased from Hoylake' am very happy to see commitment to investment and change in my home town. It is my understanding that there are plans to fully replace the lost pay and display parking spaces on the building site and also plans to eventually increase the amount of overall parking. I feel that this will be very important to the future sucess of the town. I do hope that the Council will give this issue full consideration and looks at avenues such as building a multistorey car park behind the concourse. Equally I do hope that any new retail units provided by the Sail development will be of a high quality nature such as an outdoor clothing shop/Sailing /surfing equip or similar. I would hate so see us going down the rock shop route! Overall I am very optimistic about the proposal and hope that those like minded residents will speak up as it is usually those with negative outlook who make themselves more readilly heard and grab headlines. I think that this could be a great step forward for West Kirby if approached with care, thought and caution.

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Mr Bollo, says...
12:07pm Fri 1 Feb 08

Heswall Mind wrote:
Dave, I'd love a big hotel and shopping complex in Heswall and maybe a funfair in the old village would be good for kids at week-end? Also be easier for your friends to stay in Heswall than travel down to WK. Then I can go back to my unspoilt town and admire the views we still have and get a free parking space! Joan - same really - I'd like to impress some clients of mine so was hoping Oxton could open an oriental theme park- my kids would love it also! I need a reason to visit oxton really. Idiots! Your selfish reasoning is meaningless.

What view is this development going to block exactly? The view from the supermarket? Your main concern seems to be your access to a free parking space! Any you have the audacity to accuse other people of selfish reasoning...idiot!

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alex, west kirby, west kirby says...
1:58pm Fri 1 Feb 08

Mr Bollo wrote:

Heswall Mind wrote: Dave, I'd love a big hotel and shopping complex in Heswall and maybe a funfair in the old village would be good for kids at week-end? Also be easier for your friends to stay in Heswall than travel down to WK. Then I can go back to my unspoilt town and admire the views we still have and get a free parking space! Joan - same really - I'd like to impress some clients of mine so was hoping Oxton could open an oriental theme park- my kids would love it also! I need a reason to visit oxton really. Idiots! Your selfish reasoning is meaningless.
What view is this development going to block exactly? The view from the supermarket? Your main concern seems to be your access to a free parking space! Any you have the audacity to accuse other people of selfish reasoning...idiot!

What view is this development going to block exactly? The view from the supermarket? Your main concern seems to be your access to a free parking space! Any you have the audacity to accuse other people of selfish reasoning...idiot!

a view would be ruined by the fact some of us can afford a house near the front and opposite morrisons. So Mr Bollo unless you actually live in west kirby town itself I suggest you get your facts right. Your view is not going to necessarily be everyone else's. We all have a right to an opinion

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Mr Bollo, says...
2:37pm Fri 1 Feb 08

Gosh Alex, how simply splendid that you are wealthy enough to afford a house opposite a supermarket, I wish I was as lucky as you ;-)

I have just looked on Google maps - there are 6 buildings on Dee lane opposite Morrisons and the adjacent car park, so even if these are all semis, then we are talking about 12 household whose somewhat limited view of the front, a view across a car park, will be affected by these changes. Whilst this may be unfortunate for you, it is not necessarily reason enough for this development not to go ahead.

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Heswall Mind, West Kirby says...
9:06pm Fri 1 Feb 08

Hi Bollo,

I think you missed my point. Lets run through again slowly and more simply......

Your desire for a nearby hotel and entertainment for your kids is blinding your ability to step back and see there may be other options.

Just because it appears convenient to you, doesn't mean its in the best interest of the local area, the local people or even if its the best option.

Your considerations are very limited. For example consider whether existing buildings or sites more be more appropriate? Isn't Trump looking at Hoylake golf area for hotel complex, looking over sand-dunes and Hilbre. Does WK have other areas more priority? Could Heswall not meet more of your needs? :) - hope so....

ps: There is lots of support in Neston for more development in Heswall like I suggested :) - good news for the area I say- lets just do it!

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Saffie, West Kirby says...
10:04pm Fri 1 Feb 08

To build a hotel of this size on such a small space is lunacy! West Kirby is, after all, a small seaside town. The area around Dee Lane is already congested with much traffic. I envisage even greater bottlenecks on Grange Road and the locality. What would it be like under construction with all the building-site vehicles? Especially during the holiday season. It would be hell. Think again, planning officers. As some one has mentioned, the Hydro became a white elephant. Does anyone remember the Mayville Private Hotel on Westbourne Road? This excellent hotel survived till the late 1990s before being demolished. Flats now adorn the site. Perhaps to build the proposed hotel is a ploy to get more apartments at a future date on that site. Who knows? We're about to be hit by a meteor anyway. Yippee!!

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Dante, West Kirby says...
9:04am Sat 2 Feb 08

Saffie-No need to worry about congestion around Dee Lane, Grange Road, and Banks Road, the Council can bring back the traffic lights that were such a roaring success the last time.

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Mr Bollo, says...
1:25pm Sat 2 Feb 08

Hi Bollo,

I think you missed my point. Lets run through again slowly and more simply......

Your desire for a nearby hotel and entertainment for your kids is blinding your ability to step back and see there may be other options.

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Mr Bollo, says...
1:28pm Sat 2 Feb 08

ooops, finger slipped there...what I meant to say was I didn't personally express any desire for a hotel for my kids, it was another poster... I think it was you that missed my point perhaps.

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Heswall Mind, West Kirby says...
4:16pm Sat 2 Feb 08

ok Bollo as you are super slow....add your own visionary reasoning as to why it simply MUST happen

""I have family and friends living around the country - it would be fabulous to invite them to stay at a prestegious, seaside local hotel when they visit."" (BOLLO)

Now read the rest of my post (it has exactly the same point)and please raise your game sir..... (as if a fancy hotel is the b all and end all of a wirral vision!)

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Mr Bollo, says...
5:04pm Sat 2 Feb 08

Heswall Mind wrote:
ok Bollo as you are super slow....add your own visionary reasoning as to why it simply MUST happen ""I have family and friends living around the country - it would be fabulous to invite them to stay at a prestegious, seaside local hotel when they visit."" (BOLLO) Now read the rest of my post (it has exactly the same point)and please raise your game sir..... (as if a fancy hotel is the b all and end all of a wirral vision!)

Listen Heswall Mind (or should that be "Simple Mind"?), I have never said that this was something that must happen, I merely questioned the NIMBY attitiudes that people in Wirral seem to have towards any kind of 'new' development.

And the quote

""I have family and friends living around the country - it would be fabulous to invite them to stay at a prestegious, seaside local hotel when they visit."" (BOLLO)

that you seem to be attributing to me was NOT something I said. Re-read the previous posts and stop your pathetic dribbling.

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no nimby, West Kirby says...
11:23pm Sat 2 Feb 08

Mr Bollo you seem a bit of a wind up merchant, but have a look at studio egret wests web site and see if you can find any designs that would class as positive.

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Dante, West Kirby says...
10:43am Sun 3 Feb 08

Mr Bollo- Do you know the meaning of the acronym NIMBY? You may not have noticed, but the article in the Globe, and the discussion on this site is about the proposed development of West Kirby seafront. It includes a Hotel and a new sailing school. OK? Now as far as I am aware, but I am prepared to admit I could be totally wrong on this, you cannot develop West Kirby seafront with a Hotel and a new sailing school in anybody else's "back yard". Unfortunately the only place that development can occur is in West Kirby.

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HeswallMind, west kirby says...
4:18pm Sun 3 Feb 08

Mr Bollo wrote:
Dante, to quote one of the earlier posters

'The Hope Street Hotel is perfect because it is in the right place. West Kirby is the wrong place for such a proposal.'

i.e. not in my back yard...

And I'd like to ask Ethel, where exactly are all these hotels in the surrounding area that she talks about?

Perhaps if there were somewhere decent to stay in WK, it might attract many more visitors and become a serious viable holiday destination - after all, it has a fine beach, excellent views etc. This development could help the economy of not just WK but also the whole of Wirral.

Why are people in places like WK and NB so backward looking? Why the small-minded conservatism? Why do they automatically react to any such proposals with fear and mistrust? Why can't we capitalise on the fine natural resources available in Wirral? What ever happened to the Victorian entrepreneurial spirit that built places like WK? Pitiful.

oh dear.....you DID say it! ....and you also ask people to stop being abusive, whilst calling everyone in West Kriby or New Brighton NIMBY's and me a simpleton.

I don't think it should be built simply to stop people like you and your friends visiting. Ever crossed your mind some people want positive progress ?

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Saffie, West Kirby says...
1:26am Mon 4 Feb 08

Come to West Kirby on a hot summer's day and the bit of beach by the sailing school is knee-deep in day trippers: mums and dads, kids etc; and also our friends whose idea of a good day out is a case of lager followed by a punch-up! Yes, it is a good idea to attract more people to the area, as happened with the 'Open' in 2007. But I fail to see that a hotel on the front would really benefit trade in WK! The idea is just too ambitious. Whoever thought it up needs their head examining. What would benefit the area is some decent open-air Lido/swimming pool. There's scope for that surely, and to revamp the sailing school. The public conveniences, although clean, take a hammering during the summer and close far too early for visitors. There are a lot of crossed legs, mine included, after circumnavigating the Marine Lake or returning from Hilbre in the evening. So how about some new bogs as well. Scrap the hotel idea!

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Mr Bollo, says...
10:31am Mon 4 Feb 08

Sigh...Heswall Mind, I can't really believe I have to go through this, however since you insist on repeatedly mis-quoting me...

This...which I didn't say

""I have family and friends living around the country - it would be fabulous to invite them to stay at a prestegious, seaside local hotel when they visit."" (BOLLO)

is not quite the same as this...which I did say

Perhaps if there were somewhere decent to stay in WK, it might attract many more visitors and become a serious viable holiday destination - after all, it has a fine beach, excellent views etc. This development could help the economy of not just WK but also the whole of Wirral.

You said...

Hi Bollo,

I think you missed my point. Lets run through again slowly and more simply......

Your desire for a nearby hotel and entertainment for your kids is blinding your ability to step back and see there may be other options.

No-where did I mention entertainment for my kids, nor did I call EVERYONE in New Brighton or West Kirby NIMBYs (and I do know what this means Dante). Furthermore, I didn't ask anyone to stop being abusive (that was dave, Heswall on 10:28am Thu 31 Jan 08), and as for calling you a simpleton...I hardly think that I need to do that...I think you are doing a perfectly good job of demonstrating your mental abilities without any help from me. Now go back to you Daily Mail.

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HeswallMind, west kirby says...
12:30pm Mon 4 Feb 08

no nimby wrote:
Mr Bollo you seem a bit of a wind up merchant, but have a look at studio egret wests web site and see if you can find any designs that would class as positive.

Hi Bollo/Dave whatever you call yourself from Heswall.

Glad your attention is on ALL the minor detail and only interested in petty wind ups to waste away serious issues.

Thanks for the link 'no nimby'. I genuinely couldn't find anything impressive on a very dodgy website. Bollo share your inspirations from your visit to the site. Love to know what is making you so blindly impressed with the development plans and people.

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Mr Bollo, says...
2:16pm Mon 4 Feb 08

I'm not Dave, fool. Keep going...

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Mr Bollo, says...
2:30pm Mon 4 Feb 08

I'm not Dave, fool.
Keep going...

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no nimby, West Kirby says...
3:44pm Mon 4 Feb 08

Mr Bollo, did you have a look at Egret West's web site, what do think?

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Jack Frost, birkenhead says...
8:49pm Mon 4 Feb 08

I have had a look at Egret's website, and the only word I can think of rhymes with site.

Whilst its presentation is indeed original, (ie I've never seen it before and no wonder) the baubles which indicated each project were uncomfortable on the eye.

Once the project was found the artists picture was nice enough, but if one expands the 'more' option in order to learn about the project, the text is too big for the box, with no way to scroll....

For fecks sake an architect should be able to fit stuff into a predefined square foot... if he can't do it with software what chance is there with bricks and mortar ?

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teki, Birkenhead says...
8:54pm Mon 4 Feb 08

Ignore bollo,he's a tw*t.

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Naboo, West Kirby says...
11:42pm Mon 4 Feb 08

Sorry, don't know who let bollo out!

Seriously though, those designs on Ergret's website!!! Half are still drawings so I guess pitches that didn't come off....The others!! Shocking (west kirby included)

Did anyone find a decent bubble?!? They all look like designs that will look so outdated in 10 years like tower blocks and 70's style. Oh dear, all fashion and no class or skillful craft. Tacky if you ask me. Perfect for Bollo in Heswall :)

Did anyone spot the building site they got up there! :) classy..

Where is that Sarah from Carpenter Investments?

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Mike C, West Kirby says...
7:39am Tue 5 Feb 08

I live near the front and think a quality hotel would be a fabulous asset for the town and for Wirral. What is wrong with people? The existing Sailing school is and eyesore. Why do people want to preserve a car park and a view of Morrisons? Lets give Carpenter a chance, we haven't even seen their plans yet. Like it or not West Kirby is looking tired, this could be the catalyst that it needs.

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Mr Bollo, says...
9:32am Tue 5 Feb 08

teki wrote:
Ignore bollo,he's a tw*t.

Coming from you Taki, I'll take that as a compliment...

Mike C, I'll tell you what's wrong with people, they've got the blinkers on, that's what. They've already made up their minds on this without seeing the full details of what is being proposed. Just because Egret's website is rather underdeveloped doesn't mean diddy - don't judge a book by it's cover. It might turn out to be a load of rubbish, but we will never know if everyone approaches these proposals with so many negative preconceptions and closed minds.

And for the last time, I'm not from bleeding Heswall...

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HeswallMind, West Kirby says...
1:38pm Tue 5 Feb 08

Glad you find Egret's website 'underdeveloped' (not good for a 'developer' really is it?). Nor do their previous designs demonstrate any real quality.

The problem bollo, mike c dave etc.. is not blinkeredness, quite the opposite. The competition has been 'won' already (no-one locally asked or informed). We just get told the winner. The winner who gets GIVEN the only main WK car-park - FOR FREE!

There appears several posters who themselves are completely blinkered - blindly saying yes to plans they don't understand or weren't asked about. 'The hotel our saviour!' I hear repeated without any sense or logic.

I assume neither Mike c or Bollo know the full detailed plans so why be so delighted and supportive. Incapable of critical analysis? Suspicious of why public so far lied to and not involved? Curious why Carpenter Investments would try and influence a forum to take it private? Know all the alternatives and financial backhanders?

Thought not. Sometimes intelligence is derived from critical analysis not PR and whoops from the mainstream yes men.

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Mr Bollo, says...
3:23pm Tue 5 Feb 08

Ok, here we go again...

Glad you find Egret's website 'underdeveloped' (not good for a 'developer' really is it?).

They are a property developer, not a software developer - why should they be any good at web development? Would you hire a bricklayer to do your plumbing?

Nor do their previous designs demonstrate any real quality.

Says who? You? Based on what? The website alone? Or have you been to visit some of them?

The competition has been 'won' already (no-one locally asked or informed). We just get told the winner.

The article clearly states in paragraph 2 that approval has yet to be granted.

The winner who gets GIVEN the only main WK car-park - FOR FREE!

Ah yes, the lovely car park. Well worth preserving for future generations to come and look at in awe and wonder.

'The hotel our saviour!' I hear repeated without any sense or logic.

I don't recall anyone saying this.

I assume neither Mike c or Bollo know the full detailed plans so why be so delighted and supportive.

I assume Heswall Mind that you do not know the full detailed plans either, so why be so miserable and negative?

Incapable of critical analysis?

No, but one generally needs to be in possession of the full facts before carrying out proper analysis.

Suspicious of why public so far lied to

How have the public been lied to? Do you know something we all don't?

Sometimes intelligence is derived from critical analysis not PR and whoops from the mainstream yes men.

Intelligence is the ability to learn, understand and make judgments or have opinions that are based on reason. Intelligence is innate, it cannot be 'derived' from anything. It is something that you either have, or in certain cases, do not have.

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HeswallMind, West Kirby says...
4:45pm Tue 5 Feb 08

Phew! Are you out of breath bollo? ;)

I won't take up half the forum with a quoted reply but I will say this.

I agree most people don't know what the full plans are. Naturally there is a degree of caution, questions and concerns. This is not 'nimby' or negative and my guess is not many people don't want progress and innovative developments.

Also many people who live in West Kirby will be quite happy with their community and slightly surprised at a prospect they don't really know much about yet being approved already.

A car park is real estate - prime real estate apparantly. It is also building free and in my opinion a better sense of space than with an ugly building plonked there. Which is part of the view from the beach, the lake, the drive in and hilbre. Finally a car park serves, as every resident knows, a very useful purpose.

Whilst the people of the community assess things and find out more - other uninformed people like yourself would be best not spouting your deluded ignorance and patronising at those with questions and interests beyond attracting some fat american tourists and developers bank accounts. We have children and lives!

Like I said in my first post your opinion, because it is ill-informed yet totally supportive is irrelevant and reasoning self centered.

Hope you get your holiday to disney world soon - relax and stop n think before turning Wirral into one.

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Mr Bollo, says...
5:29pm Tue 5 Feb 08

I won't take up half the forum with a quoted reply...

...then proceeds to ramble on for 6 paragraphs.

Also many people who live in West Kirby will be quite happy with their community and slightly surprised at a prospect they don't really know much about yet being approved already.

Once again, completely inaccurate. It hasn't been approved yet ...are you incapable of getting that that into your thick head?

Whilst the people of the community assess things and find out more - other uninformed people like yourself would be best not spouting your deluded ignorance and patronising at those with questions and interests beyond attracting some fat american tourists and developers bank accounts.quote]

Your command of the English language is both breathtaking and highly revealing.

...your opinion, because it is ill-informed yet totally supportive is irrelevant and reasoning self centered.

Yet more spectacular English grammar. I'm not totally supportive of the proposals, I'm merely saying we should wait and see and keep an open mind.

I notice that you fail to answer any of the points I raised in my previous post. You seem incapable of logical reasoned argument and are unable to grasp the most basic of facts even when they are repeatedly presented to you. You accuse me of ignorance yet your whole argument is based on fear and suspicion. You claim to be informed yet present no real hard information whatsoever. You are the worst kind of conservative with a small 'c'. West Kirby deserves better.

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HeswallMind, West Kirby says...
7:47pm Tue 5 Feb 08

Sorry Bollo that was a little game with you.

Da gramor was a bet I hed to show you're preoccupation with meaningless stuf like spelling and gramor ..

Your ego is too big, your intellect put to poor use. Your primary aim to make yourself look clever and everyone else untravelled, unwise nimby's - conservatives etc.

Mate u have no idea and are a bit of an idiot. I was right first time. Wasn't it you who said don't judge a book by its cover (for the developers) but Oh how revealing a typo or piece of illicit grammar (for the residents).

I'll bet you were one of those idiots who was saying 'bomb iraq!' and anyone to question was just a conspiracy theorist. Naive, arrogant and ignorant is a poor combination sir.

I know it hurts you but you are irrelevant. You made your point. You know best and we'll all follow heswall and those with a profit motive without question.

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Mr Bollo, says...
9:08pm Tue 5 Feb 08

Yeah, nice try HeswallMind, but you are fooling no-one.

Were all your previous incoherent ramblings also part of some big mind game then? Yeah right. Bet you still think that this project has already been approved, don't you?

Call me irrelevant all you like, I frankly don't care. I'm sure people can judge for themselves on the basis of what has been said.

And, for your info, no I didn't support Iraq, in fact quite the opposite.

If you want to have the last word, go right ahead...I'm done wasting time with you.

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no nimby, West Kirby says...
9:20pm Tue 5 Feb 08

Does any find the timing of announcements of the Dee Lane Hotel, a New Aldi on Bridge Road and The Hoylake Golf resort conincedental? Is this the start of the complete redevelopment of the centre of West Kirby? Are we being drip fed news of a larger development? Will will the public be made aware of the full plans?

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HeswallMind, West Kirby says...
10:42pm Tue 5 Feb 08

Hi 'No Nimby' - yes there is a masterplan - so to speak - here is the link.. http://www.wirral.go

v.uk/LGCL/100006/200

079/823/content_0000

680.html

Bollo, I will have last words thanks, as I don't feel you deserve to. Firstly my gramor/ spelin or otherwise is irrelevant (like yourself actually), unless you are a West Kirby resident? If there is a consultation I doubt people from heswall, north wales or wigan etc. will be the main people listened to - residents voices should be priority. Just like New Brighton .

Your blind faith is admiral however your dismissive attitude to genuine concerns and questions of local residents is unnecessary and yes, not relevant, to a healthy discussion.

What right have you - to fill these boards with nothing but grammer finger pointing, name calling and blind optimism about something of which you admit, know nothing.

I'm surprised you didn't support Iraq - I guess you were one of the nimby's who didn't want progress or perhaps your small minded suspicion could have stopped you being duped? Its always healthy to question.

The points raised on this forum appear valid and many still unanswered. We wait ...

Saraaaahhhh!!! Were are you? -

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no nimby, West Kirby says...
11:28pm Tue 5 Feb 08

HeswallMind, I have read the Master Plan report and believe the next announcements will be as follows:

Herring bone parking for the prom bold. This will not be linked to the hotel development, and options for pay and display and reduced pavement width will be vague

Pedestrianisation of The Cresent Almost certain

Development of Orrysdale Road Relocation of petrol station for the Aldi, possible multi storey parking

Possible One Way System to avoid traffic issues with the Aldi and to enable development of the Concourse (Known as the Plaza in the Masetserplan). Traffic routed down Grange road then up Bridge Road and Orrysdale road. Softening of attitudes due to the Crescent pedestrainisation.

Re Introduction of Residents Parking unlikely, but why was it suggested in the first place.

Golf Resort Hotel Behind Carr LaneDonald Trump's hotel, don't know if it will impact the municipal Golf course, also there was lots of other stuff in the pipeline for Hoylake.

Why don't the members of the council just let us know what's going on to avoid all this speculation. Some of the schemes may be welcomed, however personally I will be against any large scale development of Dee Lane carpark.

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HeswallMind, West Kirby says...
2:43pm Wed 6 Feb 08

I completely agree no nimby, it would be far easier to simply involve the people of West Kirby/ Hoylake with their vision for us. You never know we may have some good ideas or raise pertinent issues they may have overlooked.

Sometimes its easy for the local council staff to forget they are paid by us to represent us and our interests.

If there is nothing to hide, no agendas etc. then why the need to bounce us or PR us into developments? They just don't have their finger on the pulse and it shows.

ps: I have just completed a walk around the lake and ntoiced the dee lane car-park is 3/4 full and 80% of road spaces taken - this is in early feb! Banks road also full, so where do all these future visitors, conferences etc. park?

I would like to see the other entrants in this 'competition' which Carpenter won, anyone have details?

(I guess Sarah is gone :( - which kind of implies she was only here to PR and disrupt an open discussion. (like our good friend bollo - love to know where he lives, it must be amazing!! Having such a visionary living there I'm sure he's behind some real advancements- maybe he lives in Disney Land ? :) Yippee...Progress.

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no nimby, West Kirby says...
9:18pm Wed 6 Feb 08

Some comments from Sarah on iwindsurf.co.uk

Dear Alan

Thank you very much for making such a great case for the marine lake. I've said to several windsurfers who replied to my post that it has always been our intention to create an environment which reflects the world class stature of the lake. Without input of this kind, that would be harder to achieve.

Without wishing to repeat myself (I realise many of you must speak to each other about this), what has come out of our work so far is that the value and significance of the lake do not seem to be fully understood by many of West Kirby's residents and visitors. Yet it's at the heart of the town, in every sense, and an issue we are trying to address.

There will be a period of public consultation shortly, when lake users will be consulted. I hope you don't mind if I contact you again and, lastly, may I quote you? I don't need to use your name, if you would prefer not.

Thanks again. Please keep talking to us.

Best wishes

Sarah.

What bulls**t of course the residents and visitors value the marine lake, that's why the the Dee Lane car park is full every weekend, even in the winter and why many residents have chosen to live here. It's the council who don't not value the facilities, thats why the wall is collapsing and the sailing school is so run down. They are too busy dreaming up oppurtinies for developers rather than securing proper funding to make the marine lake the world class location that it should be.

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Dante, West Kirby says...
11:47pm Wed 6 Feb 08

Heswallmind- I believe Mr Bollo resides in that shining beacon of good taste, Birkenhead, the architectural jewel of the North West.

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teki, Birkenhead says...
9:44am Thu 7 Feb 08

How dare you! How dare you speak the truth.

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Mr Bollo, says...
11:43am Thu 7 Feb 08

Dante, don't confuse the poor man, he thinks my name is Dave and I come from Heswall. Any more information might just tip him over the edge.

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Anna from West Kirby, In the car park says...
11:57am Thu 7 Feb 08

I was generally against the idea of the hotel development. However, I am persuaded that this may be good for the residents of West Kirby and Wirral. I certainly prefer Mr Bollo's measured, intelligent and reasoned arguments to that put forward by some of the aggressive and rude individuals on this forum - which seem to represent the majority of people against the "plans" It's embarrassing and completely undermines your argument.

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ENC, Greasby says...
11:58am Thu 7 Feb 08

there has been alot of mention of the car-park on which the proposed hotel is to be build, being a valued, and fully utilised facility. What utter rubbish. It is nearly always empty, at most 50% full. Bring on the re-development. It's needed badly , will bring income into the town. NIMBY's should only be listened to if they can back their arguments up, and there's far too many of them unable to do so living in WK.

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Resident, West Kirby says...
12:01pm Thu 7 Feb 08

Mike C with you all the way and Mr Bollo. A five star hotel and new sailing school would both be great pluses for our town. Why the fuss about the veiw from Dee Lane? As you enter the top of Dee Lane the veiw would remain unchanged and largely so as you come down it. The only directly affected veiw would be that from the Morrisonsarea. Instead of a car park full of drunks and skateboarders (nothing against them)we would have landscaping and a five star hotel with new sailing school to replace the old relic. By the way, the veiws don't stop outside Morrisons. Walk or drive along the prom - look veiws everywhere. Having said that I do feel for the residents whose veiws will be blocked from their homes. Hopefully the developer will liaise with them.
Development on that site will go ahead at some stagelike it or not. When directing your criticism at Carpenter/Egret consider this - would you have prefered a Travel Lodge?

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Dave, Heswall says...
2:51pm Thu 7 Feb 08

Sorry not been in touch have been in Barbados.
I hear there are plans for a heli pad at the new hotel. How fabulous.
Is it also true that the anti hotel lobby are all having a stella and a fight on the car park tonight?

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teki, Birkenhead says...
4:37pm Thu 7 Feb 08

Just flew in from Miami meself. I've decided to change sides,as is my wont,I am now for a 3 lane motorway.

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HeswallMind, West Kirby says...
7:04pm Thu 7 Feb 08

Funny that. Bollo comes back with more irrelevance but a flurry of other posters arrive within 10 mins, all posting Bollo's blind uninformed views! This time Bollo isn't from Heswall or B'head but from Greasby and WK, apparently.

Bollo's motivation? I think its persuasion and sabotage. Either way he sure is desperate to make WK in dire need of replacing the car-park with a hotel - it seems our future depends upon it- for income, for tourists, for progress!! No other ideas should be put forward and concerns swallowed.

The more i think about it, I can see that a hotel on the car-park is the only option. Anyone who questions it and would like to see other alternatives/ full plans before making a judgement are clearly an embarrassment!

How silly of me not to have complete and unconditional trust in the council and developers. We, the uneducated, untraveled and unwise residents need to be hand held towards evolution.

Thanks all those from Heswall, B'Head, Greasby, London (developers) for showing us the light!

Sorry it took so long to realise that progress is inevitable and i should sit back and enjoy it. There are rich folk out there and if we can attract them and serve them- all will be well.

Whilst I am so enlightened I am off to write my letter of apology to Hicks and Gillete who have showed us Liverpool fans the way of business, wealth and good PR.

ps: you assume too much bolo, I never said I was male! Roll on the motorway, telepad and tourists! Save us residents from our desperation!

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Mr Bollo, says...
9:40pm Thu 7 Feb 08

Wow, amazing. Apparently I now have multiple personalities...seri
ously though, I really do think you need some kind of professional help. There is only one me, I always go by the name Bollo, ask anyone on here. I know you don't believe me, but it's true, the other posts were pure coincidence...I have a day job and I was quite busy today... I'm sorry I called you male btw, but women are usually a bit more chilled out. But really, get some help. Paranoia is not an admirable (or even an admiral) quality.

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HeswallMind, West Kirby says...
10:14pm Thu 7 Feb 08

When I opposed the war in Iraq I was called paranoid........lame
.

Lets all get in line Mr Bollo. has a dark destructive tune he wishes to project. Watch his wit and wisdom unfold as he helps the people of West Kirby. Beware his tune it has neither rhythm, reason or melody and its bass is brash and soulless. If you decide to dance with Bollo prepare to go around in circles with an empty tune -leaving you empty and the forum full of drivel. Pat on the back for man incapable of not having the last word or drone. Am done.

Hope I never have to say I told you so in 5 years time. WMD anyone?

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Resident, West Kirby says...
9:57am Fri 8 Feb 08

Did you over do it on the stella last night Heswall Mind?

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ENC, Greasby says...
10:36am Fri 8 Feb 08

HeswallMind, I can assure you I am not Mr Bollo. You appear to be ignoring a simple fact...There is an opposing view to yours. People who believe that such a development will benefit the town as a whole. Sure there are a handful of resident who will lose out on views, and I genuinly feel sorry for them, but this is GOOD for the town, and most residents will see it that way

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Dante, West Kirby says...
12:08pm Fri 8 Feb 08

Resident-Perhaps you could clarify the point you made about criticism of Carpenter/ Egret, and "would you have preferred a Travel Lodge" If the basis of your support for this project is the fact it could be worse, then that seems to indicate certain lack of confidence regarding what is on offer. Presumably, following that line of argument, if they wanted to build a petrol station on the site, we should embrace that, and be happy it isn't a sewage farm. My objection to the proposal, leaving aside the repercussions of trying to resolve the parking problems it will create, is the fact I find the design of the hotel repulsive, and totally out of tune with the character of West Kirby. Now I do realise that beauty is in the eye of the beholder, but at least I am basing my objections on what is on offer in terms of bricks and mortar, unlike its supporters
whose only line seems to be the chimera of regeneration, money and visitors.

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Jordan, Moreton says...
12:24pm Fri 8 Feb 08

What about a hotel in Meols or even Moreton. If the West Kirby nimbys don't like it, we'll take it! Let Meols and Moreton benefit instead - we have better views than Hope St. also and underused beach front carpark space! Come on don't leave us out.

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Resident, West Kirby says...
12:54pm Fri 8 Feb 08

It is the calibre of the hotel that I support. I would prefer an inovatively designed five star hotel with brasserie,restaurant etc to a travel lodge.It is my undersatnding that they were also competing for the space. I, as a long term resident of the town want to see it develop and improve. A high quality hotel and a well designed sailing club will really add vibrancy to our town - hands off Moreton!

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ENC, Greasby says...
1:59pm Fri 8 Feb 08

Dante - you'r quite right the OUTLINE designs of the new hotel are not in keeping with the Prom...they're a considerable immprovement on Hilbre Court !!!!

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Bionic Woman, West Kirby says...
4:47pm Fri 8 Feb 08

Well as a resident of Salisbury avenue I am very concerned about what the council will do re parking. If they think they can add more cars to our road and surrounding area they need a wake up call.
There are already people parking on double yellows outside my house. If I did this a traffic warden would appear. If complete strangers appear No Bloody traffic warden.Permit parking was mentioned and the residents fought back.Though i reckon the council will insist on this if the hotel gets the go ahead.
People forget that West Kirby gets busy on a weekend and people are always walking round the marine lake, even if it is cold. Why cause more traffic? One way system throughout wet kirby will probably be inevitable. I have grown up here and lived here now with my own family. Sometimes i cant get out of west kirby because of traffic. I hope the council has some answers, People wont be sitting back and taking whatever is thrown at them,

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bionic woman 2, west kirby says...
4:57pm Fri 8 Feb 08

Cllr Bob Moon, Wirral's cabinet member for culture, tourism and leisure said: "This is exciting news for Wirral,

Great its really going to help wirral, I know its when everyones Gran comes to stay and her family kindly put her up in west kirby hotel. Lovely!
Bring on the hotel after all west kirby has lots to offer whooooo.

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Jack Frost, wirral says...
6:47pm Fri 8 Feb 08

Hey Jaime Sommers, chill out, with your bionic hearing you'll hear the wardens approaching..

Are you for or against ? I'm not very good at spotting sarcasm.. I'd rather give doubtful benefits.

My opinion has changed, build the hotel but don't charge premium rates for parking visitors.

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noo parking, 601-599 says...
2:08pm Sat 9 Feb 08

Where is everyone going to park, I've just been down the prom and the car park is full (that's 176 places) and it has very busy on several weekends this year, when the weather permitted. The prom is also busy, with the full width of the pavement being used.

This is the middle of winter, it's always busier in the summer. I can't see where the extra parking will be created, any narrowing of the prom pavement, to create herring bone parking, will result in bottle necks. What was once a pleasant stroll will become a crush on peak days.

Some people have been disputing the car park usage on this forum, well if you don't believe me I've now got the photographs to prove it.

Just another point Hilbre court is not the best looking building, but it replaced a hotel that was not successful.

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What is Goin On?, West Kirby says...
6:57pm Sat 9 Feb 08

Does anyone know where we can see the other entrants in the 'competition'?

How many people entered?

Did the 'competition' won by Carpenter originally offer the car park as part of the deal? Is there a link to the brief/ tender doc?

Who were the judges?

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Top Secret, West Kirby says...
8:40pm Sat 9 Feb 08

This is the only link I could find for the brief however it's only in draft form
http://www.wirral.go
v.uk/Minute/Public/T
he%20Sail%20draft%20
-%2005.10.05_17945.p
df

You can go to the local democracy area of Wirral councils web site and search meeting minutes for "The Sail", however all the results are secret.

Search google for "West Kirby and Hoylake Masterplab" and you'll find a link to a large PDF. This was when the hotel proposal was first put forward, and later rejected by members of the public in Westbourne hall, just before the golf open. By the way ther's lots of other nasties in the document. I've asked local councilors if it's accurate, but have only got responses that it was created in 2004 and things have changed.

The Wirral Council cabinet, selected the devlopers. Councilor David Eldertons web site has a news item about the project.

Hope this helps if you find more details please post them.

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Top Secret Correction, West Kirby says...
8:42pm Sat 9 Feb 08

Sorry search for "West Kirby and Hoylake Masterplan" not "Masterplab"

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What is going on?, West Kirby says...
11:40pm Sun 10 Feb 08

Thanks for link Top Secret - In that document the proposal is simply to re-develop the sailing school site - no car park mentioned.

There is no mention of any competition anywhere on the web- neither announcements or results or entrants? They've listed things like windsurf competitions for under 14's but no mention of competition to redevelop WK.

Baffled. When did the car park come into things? Where is this mystery competition and who took part?

Any help most welcome, I really can't find anything.

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No nimby, West Kirby says...
11:37am Mon 11 Feb 08

Quoting from the sail brief "Any complementary
development on the council owned car park opposite
would also be

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no nimby, West Kirby says...
2:01pm Fri 15 Feb 08

West Wirral Forum Meeting Black Horse Hill School 19th Feb 7pm This meeting will discuss the regeneration plans. I've not seen much advanced publicity, for this has anyone else?

http://www.wirral.go
v.uk/minute/viewagen
da.asp?mtg=2422

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no nimby, West Kirby says...
2:02pm Fri 15 Feb 08

West Wirral Forum Meeting Black Horse Hill School 19th Feb 7pm This meeting will discuss the regeneration plans. I've not seen much advanced publicity, for this has anyone else?

http://www.wirral.go
v.uk/minute/viewagen
da.asp?mtg=2422

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What is going on?, West Kirby says...
4:52pm Sat 16 Feb 08

Thanks no nimby, unfortunately I can't make this Tuesday which is a real shame. A bit more notice or publicity would have been good!

If you go, please ask for further information on this competition (who took part, what options panel had to choose and whether car-park was councils or developers idea?)

Also isn't there a better way for people to discuss this other than a basic wirral globe forum?

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westkirby-prommer, West Kirby says...
7:21pm Thu 1 May 08

There is a new site at west-kirby.net where a forum exists for discussion on this and similar topics.

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sarah b, Wirral says...
1:13pm Wed 10 Sep 08

I've noticed many of the comments against the development seem to mention the loss of the car park by Morrisons-on-Sea. Am I alone in being puzzled about why if the development goes ahead, able-bodied visitors couldn't just be signposted to the whacking great car park behind the concourse which always seems to be half empty? (keeping a few disabled spaces down at the front for those who can't walk far). It's then only about 300 yards walk through the concourse and down Dee Lane to the front. I don't have any great feelings about the development yet, I'll wait and find out more info before I start ranting either way, but I'd also like to say that the front down by Dee Lane looks rubbish anyway, the Morrisons looks like a cheap, nasty eyesore and the current sailing club look shabby and downmarket (am I also alone in trying to think of anywhere else where a supermarket would get such prime sea-front space?). Knock down Morrisons and give them another site somewhere away from the front, build the hotel on that site, and build a nice, new, sustainable and unobtrusive sailing club on the site of the current one I say.

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Dadoronron, West Kirby says...
11:58am Tue 16 Sep 08

sarah b wrote:
I've noticed many of the comments against the development seem to mention the loss of the car park by Morrisons-on-Sea. Am I alone in being puzzled about why if the development goes ahead, able-bodied visitors couldn't just be signposted to the whacking great car park behind the concourse which always seems to be half empty? (keeping a few disabled spaces down at the front for those who can't walk far). It's then only about 300 yards walk through the concourse and down Dee Lane to the front. I don't have any great feelings about the development yet, I'll wait and find out more info before I start ranting either way, but I'd also like to say that the front down by Dee Lane looks rubbish anyway, the Morrisons looks like a cheap, nasty eyesore and the current sailing club look shabby and downmarket (am I also alone in trying to think of anywhere else where a supermarket would get such prime sea-front space?). Knock down Morrisons and give them another site somewhere away from the front, build the hotel on that site, and build a nice, new, sustainable and unobtrusive sailing club on the site of the current one I say.

Sarah B,

You make an interesting point and I'm sure that those of us who are at best uncomfortable with our Council's proposals, would like to hear more from you.

While this is a public forum, it only seems to attract attention when The Globe has something to report so, maybe, you'd consider registering at www.westkirbyrenewal
.org.uk and or voicing your ideas thru the forum at www.west-kirby.net.

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Wallasey is doomed, Wallasey says...
3:12pm Tue 30 Sep 08

Maybe the guests at the hotel will lower the average age of the local population to below 100!

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hugo2008, Wirral says...
7:06pm Fri 3 Oct 08

Roll on with improving West Kirby it is very much needed from a tourist point of view the Town is dead, and the leisure activities sadly lacking, take the old people out of the concourse and it would be empty for most of the day. I would say if you dont use it you lose it. I would even say Double the size of the Marine Lake.

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