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'Humiliating defeat' awaits doctors

1:48pm Tuesday 6th May 2008

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SO West Wirral Group Practice refuses to give up their dream fantasy of a super-surgery at The Warrens.

First there was a planning application and it failed for good reasons. Despite this, they paid for a traffic survey in a weak and deeply flawed attempt to prove The Warrens site isn't too busy. A blind person can tell it's already too busy!

They then paid for a site survey, with the permission of Wirral Council, to enable them to design their ideal building and car park layout despite their earlier planning application failure. That, in itself, was already beyond belief.

Then they employed planning consultants to create a lavish design with no expense spared! They then submitted another planning application which was the same as the first - and again it failed for the same reasons as before.

That last failure, however, was far greater in that far more people were involved and we objected vociferously.

The planning committee voted unanimously against the Primary Care Trust's (PCT) proposals - their supporters were so few and weak it was an embarrassment, the objectors were many and jubilant . . . and the PCT and doctors had to walk out of the Town Hall with their tails between their legs'!

What is more, most people present believed that surely the doctors would now give up their ridiculous and massively unpopular plans.

But no, clearly they don't think that they have wasted enough public money yet and now they are pursuing an expensive public inquiry, despite being told it was not in the public's interests to do so.

Perhaps if they had to pay for everything out of their immense and undeserved salaries they might never have considered such a stupid crusade in the first place.

Unfortunately, these doctors are clearly arrogant and ignorant and don't seem to realise that they are heading for the most humiliating public defeat of their lives. They're like spoilt, petulant children who've set their hearts on a very expensive toy which, hopefully, they're just not going to get.

They're making themselves extremely unpopular and I very much doubt that West Wirral Group Practice can survive for much longer whatever the result of the public inquiry - and I, for one, won't miss them!

D.V. Hall,Kings Drive,Irby

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Dr Stephen Forster, Heswall says...
8:59pm Fri 9 May 08

i feel it is disappointing that the Wirral Globe took a view to publish the letter from Mr D Hall ("humiliating defeat awaits doctors" - 6th may).This is obviously an extremely emotive subject and generates strong feelings on both sides but Mr Hall's letter quickly descended into a vindictive and personal attack against the hard working doctors at West Wirral Group Practice. He is obviously very angry but I do not feel this was an appropriate forum for such a "rant".

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Dave Rimmer, Wallasey says...
12:43am Sat 10 May 08

Dr Forster....I do believe that Dave Hall has every right to be angry at the PCT`s actions. Whilst he may have been a little agressive with his terminology just bear in mind that the facts he has put forward are correct.
The council planning committee have turned down planning persmission on two separate occasions for legitimate reasons and yet the PCT keep spending, presumably, large amounts of money fighting those decisions made by our elected council. So can you tell us when the PCT intend to give up the expensive fight against a democratic decision made by Metropolitan Borough of Wirral twice. I am no lawyer and not a planner but arent the council abiding by government guidelines on Greenbelt land which the PCT seem hell bent on ignoring.

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Dr Stephen Forster, Heswall says...
10:56am Mon 12 May 08

The facts may be correct, but it is also a fact that the doctors of WWGP and the PCT have not taken any action that is not legal or follows the correct procedures. He may be angry but to use language such as "these doctors are clearly arrogant and ignorant"and "out of their immense and undeserved salaries" was inappropriate.

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Dave Rimmer, Wallasey says...
12:49pm Mon 12 May 08

I have no doubt that actions taken by he PCT were legal and above board but the fact remains that large amounts of money have and are being been spent on appealing decisions made more than once by our democratically elected concil. You cloud the issue by complaining about Dave Halls words but have not even attempted to defend the the PCT and presumably your own actions against a decision made by the planning department on behalf of the electorate of Wirral.

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Dr Stephen Forster, Heswall says...
9:26am Tue 13 May 08

I believe "the issue" of my original post WAS Mr Halls words and you presume very wrongly as I am not involved with West Wirral Group Practice. I just felt, and still do, that the tone of the letter was wrong.

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Little Miss Sunshine, Thingwall says...
3:21pm Tue 13 May 08

Mr Hall's Letter was fantastic. If it had have been rude or aggressive it would not have been printed. I wish him well.

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J. Briggs, Wirral says...
12:01am Thu 15 May 08

I feel the letter written by Mr Hall was totally out of order. The matter of the surgery relocating should be democratically debated using the facts. It should not involve personal and quite frankly childish attacks on the doctors, who are working very hard to get their patients a better surgery and all in all provide a better quality of healthcare in doing so. I would like to wish the doctors and their seventeen thousand signature petition the best of luck with the surgery plans.

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Jack Frost, birkenhead says...
12:44pm Thu 15 May 08

Briggs, this have been democratically debated TWICE... Why can't they get the message ?

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J. Briggs, Wirral says...
11:57pm Thu 15 May 08

As the doctors feel (quite rightly) that the thousands of patients they treat deserve a high quality health care in a suitable none discriminatory, up to date building.

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Dave Hall, Irby says...
10:08am Fri 16 May 08

To Dr. Forster, he of the lower-case "i".
I seem to have 'hit a raw nerve' with my "immense and undeserved salaries" comment! My letter was never an attack on all G.P.s but clearly the truth hurts the most. No G.P. is worth over 3 times the amount paid to teachers.
I stand by every word of my letter, indeed I am very proud of it, and many others agree with me completely (if you don't believe me just take a look at page 3 of the Hes. News). One patient of W.W.G.P. even described having an "uplifting experience" as he read my letter!
There is far more to this whole affair than you could ever realise and you would be ill-advised to involve yourself further in a situation that doesn't directly concern you.
By the way J. Briggs - what 17,000 petition? The petition that I saw on public show for years at Hes. Group Practice never mentioned the Warrens and there are now many people who originally thought that they could trust their doctors but now bitterly regret signing that petition. That will all be clear at the Public Inquiry as 100s, if not 1000s, of objectors queue up to vent their fury at the doctors and PCT, all in a polite and well-ordered way of course!
Even if they get their H.C. at the Warrens, due to the risk of central government imposing it upon us even when so few people want it, their unpopularity will be confirmed and everything that I've said will be vindicated.
Just a very minor point - there are several very suitable alternative sites which are actually
centrally located, unlike the Warrens, but all of those who claim otherwise have repeated such a deceit so often that they must actually believe it themselves!
Thank-you to all who support our cause and agree with me, especially to you Dave Rimmer who always seems to be there talking common-sense when others seem to be either very confused or just plain wrong!
From Dave Hall (Tree Warden).

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J Briggs, Wirral says...
3:56pm Mon 19 May 08

Mr Hall, Firstly, the doctors of the WWGP still are trusted by the vast majority of their patients, the project to relocate the surgery is an issue that should not effect peoples trust in the doctors ability to provide a good quality healthcare to the public.
Secondly, the site at the Warrens is the only suitable site that can be used by the WWGP for their new surgery.
Thirdly, the matter of the WWGP relocating does concern doctor Forster as he is a member of our community as both of us are, and local healthcare is provided by all of the doctors and if you get your wish and the WWGP closes he will get an influx of thousands of patients which his surgery will not physically be able to care for, so it most certainly does concern him! And you cannot possibly compare the work of a doctor with a teacher, doctors do a lot more training and their job carries a lot more responsibility (life and death) and if you had a heart attack you wouldn't call a teacher would you?
Lastly I would like to say that if you and your supporters put as much energy into working with the doctors of the WWGP to provide alternative relocations as you are putting into working directly against them we would not be in this situation and would probably be well on the way to having a lovely new surgery.
And I really don't think you making petty comments on peoples use of "i" is very constructive is it. Thank you

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Little Miss Sunshine, Thingwall says...
5:26pm Mon 19 May 08

We dont need a lovely new surgery.
We DO need our green belt.
I agree with Mr Hall completley.

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Dave Rimmer, Wallasey says...
10:05pm Mon 19 May 08

Mr Biggs, you state categorically the "the Warrens is the only suitable site that can be used for the siting of the propose super surgery"
Opponents of the warrens development would disagree. With the closure of schools within the catchment area there are other alternatives despite the PCT`s propaganda.
I suspect that Metroplolitan Borough of Wirral would not wish to make those sites available as they would be valuable prime housing development sites and they would not want to lose the revenue from the sale of the land. So, Mr Biggs, there are two sides to every story, not just the PCT`s. Apart from the Greenbelt issue the BMA are now beginning to object to these super surgeries but I will let you research their reasons as that is a different argument

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David, Higher Bebington says...
1:01am Tue 20 May 08

I find it confusing that Dr Forster wishes to support the creation of a super surgery aka "polyclinic" when so many of his colleagues in the BMA are vehemently opposed to the idea. maybe I'm being cynical, but I reckon there is a financial incentive for doctors to run huge practices like these. If not, why are private companies like Virgin queuing up for a slice of the action? The Warrens won't be the only controversial proposal. I've read elsewhere that the PCT is looking to replace the Teehey Lane and Kings Lane practices with a similar super-surgery. The playing fields in Town Lane could be under threat. Where else in the vicinity is there suitable land?

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jones, says...
2:29pm Tue 20 May 08

this is not a "polyclinic" or "super surgery" just one surgery
that at the moment is situated on three separate sites.

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David, Higher Bebington says...
12:17am Thu 22 May 08

Well, at the last count West Wirral Group Practice had no less than TEN partners running it. If that doesn't constitute a super surgery, then what does?

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Hugo Marchen, Heswall says...
10:41am Fri 23 May 08

Any examination of the council planning department will reveal that numerous sites have been and are available for a new dotors GP Practice, So it is a fabrication to state that this is the only site suitable, The BMA has given out thousands of leaflets urging patients to write and object to the creation of "PolyClinics" the BMA did this at the request of thousands of GP Doctors. Any propsed new services are already available at the major hospital less than a mile away from the "Warrens". The very few patients who may require wheelchair access to the doctor already do have full access whithin the present group practice, and even at the arrowe park hospital if needed. Will the doctors in favour of this so called polyclinic please explain just who owns the present GP Surgery premises, and what is to become of them if they do move to the "Super Surgery" can we hope that the gains from selling these substantial buildings will be used to build the new premises.
Thank the lord for DEMOCRACY and just leave the GREEN BELT alone.

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Dave Hall, Irby says...
11:12am Tue 3 Jun 08

To J.Briggs:- The doctors are already aware of several alternative sites which are far more suitable than the Warrens, they just don't want to admit it because the PCT has already done a deal with the council 'behind closed doors'. They have been offered it for a lot less money than it is worth, i.e. below market value. The people own that land and we're not going to let the council give it away to an organisation which is clearly not a respecter of the environment.
A word of advice:- don't call for a G.P. if you're having a heart attack because you are likely to be dead before they get to you. I would call for an ambulance if I had an emergency, as would anyone else with any common-sense!
From:- Dave Hall, Tree Warden for Thingwall.

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