Wind farms won't generate local jobs (From Wirral Globe)

Dantealighieri says...
1:09pm Wed 20 Mar 13

Ah! The great Global Warming scam. I'm afraid it may be too late to repair the damage to the UK's future energy needs because of the insane worship of the 'Green' lobby by Politicians. Ofgem have calculated that the cost of achieving green energy targets, paid for through taxes, set by the EU, backed by Labour, backed by the Conservatives, and of course embraced lovingly by the Liberals, will push up annual household fuel bills to an average of around £2,400 within the next 10 years. So much for the political crocodile tears about 'fuel poverty' for the poorest in 'our' society. Add to that the extra cost to industry that will be reflected in everything you buy, then you begin to see the damage the 'green ' agenda has done, and is doing, not only to households, but to British industry trying to compete in a global market against countries like China or India, who refuse to have that burden laid upon them. We now also have the possibility of power blackouts within the next 10 years, caused by the decommissioning of power stations, known about, but because of faffing around by Governments, not properly planned for, because of being obsessed with meeting 'green' targets with things like wind power, that only work inefficiently when the wind blows and have to be backed up by conventional power stations which are being shut down. Of course even the man made Global Warming predictions of the past 30 years are now coming under the spotlight, and are being found to be based on phony science, and emotion, but even now, still welcomed by Politicians as a means of screwing money out of the mugs who vote for them, and unfortunately, those who don't vote for them. Only UKIP have continually opposed this madness, but it appears, as in all things political, that the majority of six pack Joe public prefer to stand open mouthed as they are continually conned by the ConLibLab 3 card trick.

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Carlos J says...
5:48pm Wed 20 Mar 13

It's far more beneficial to have lots of smaller wind turbines like this size http://www.hevenergi
es.ie/index.php/prod
ucts/hevair-3k/ which support more local jobs than large offshore ones. They many not be as efficient due to their size but you can have more of them on a domestic scale and create more jobs and free renewable energy for their owners rather than large corporations

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save energy says...
10:27am Thu 21 Mar 13

Wind power was supposed to deliver low-cost, reliable, sustainable, energy not be a job creation scheme.

It has failed on all counts, (although quite a few ‘Green jobs’ created in India & China making the dam things).

Renewables are a major factor in the high energy prices we pay & will increase as more are brought on stream. (look at Denmark Germany & Spain, all have high % of renewables, all have very high energy costs).

Take Whitelee windfarm Glasgow,
Have a look at the eye watering monthly OFGEM payments for this windfarm, see-
http://www.variablep
itch.co.uk/station/4
0/
(totals at bottom of page)
Nb; its worth exploring the rest of that site & see how the other half live OFF YOU.

Remember that all the subsidy’s are paid from ‘Green taxes’ on your energy bills & food bills (as producers pass on their costs), the only clear winners are the windfarmers.

The latest full OFGEM figs show wind payments of £ 207,920,042 just for Nov 2012
Over 50% of that was subsidy’s.
It's a Scam.

As I write this, on a clear cold day, 2°C, the UKs entire 4,483 wind turbine fleet is producing-
just … 2.7% of demand !!! pathetic.
BUT making loads of cash for developers (mainly foreign), & energy prices are set to rise again to pay for it all.

Note:-
As at July 2012, UK companies own just –
12% of offshore wind
37% of on land wind
Wind power was supposed to deliver low-cost, reliable, sustainable, energy not be a job creation scheme.
It has failed on all counts, (although quite a few ‘Green jobs’ created in India & China making the dam things).

Renewables are a major factor in the high energy prices we pay & will increase as more are brought on stream. (look at Denmark Germany & Spain, all have high % of renewables, all have very high energy costs).

Take Whitelee windfarm Glasgow,
Have a look at the eye watering monthly OFGEM payments for this windfarm, see-
http://www.variablep
itch.co.uk/station/4
0/
(totals at bottom of page)
Nb; its worth exploring the rest of that site & see how the other half live OFF YOU.

Remember that all the subsidy’s are paid from ‘Green taxes’ on your energy bills & food bills (as producers pass on their costs), the only clear winners are the windfarmers.

The latest full OFGEM figs show wind payments of £ 207,920,042 just for Nov 2012
Over 50% of that was subsidy’s.
It's a Scam.

As I write this, on a clear cold day, 2°C, the UKs entire 4,483 wind turbine fleet is producing-
just … 2.7% of demand !!! pathetic.
BUT making loads of cash for developers (mainly foreign), & energy prices are set to rise again to pay for it all.

Note:-
As at July 2012, UK companies own just –
12% of offshore wind.
37% of on land wind.

74% of ALL British Electricity Generating is foreign owned.!!

Wind power was supposed to deliver low-cost, reliable, sustainable, energy not be a job creation scheme. It has failed on all counts, (although quite a few ‘Green jobs’ created in India & China making the dam things). Renewables are a major factor in the high energy prices we pay & will increase as more are brought on stream. (look at Denmark Germany & Spain, all have high % of renewables, all have very high energy costs). Take Whitelee windfarm Glasgow, Have a look at the eye watering monthly OFGEM payments for this windfarm, see- http://www.variablep itch.co.uk/station/4 0/ (totals at bottom of page) Nb; its worth exploring the rest of that site & see how the other half live OFF YOU. Remember that all the subsidy’s are paid from ‘Green taxes’ on your energy bills & food bills (as producers pass on their costs), the only clear winners are the windfarmers. The latest full OFGEM figs show wind payments of £ 207,920,042 just for Nov 2012 Over 50% of that was subsidy’s. It's a Scam. As I write this, on a clear cold day, 2°C, the UKs entire 4,483 wind turbine fleet is producing- just … 2.7% of demand !!! pathetic. BUT making loads of cash for developers (mainly foreign), & energy prices are set to rise again to pay for it all. Note:- As at July 2012, UK companies own just – 12% of offshore wind 37% of on land wind Wind power was supposed to deliver low-cost, reliable, sustainable, energy not be a job creation scheme. It has failed on all counts, (although quite a few ‘Green jobs’ created in India & China making the dam things). Renewables are a major factor in the high energy prices we pay & will increase as more are brought on stream. (look at Denmark Germany & Spain, all have high % of renewables, all have very high energy costs). Take Whitelee windfarm Glasgow, Have a look at the eye watering monthly OFGEM payments for this windfarm, see- http://www.variablep itch.co.uk/station/4 0/ (totals at bottom of page) Nb; its worth exploring the rest of that site & see how the other half live OFF YOU. Remember that all the subsidy’s are paid from ‘Green taxes’ on your energy bills & food bills (as producers pass on their costs), the only clear winners are the windfarmers. The latest full OFGEM figs show wind payments of £ 207,920,042 just for Nov 2012 Over 50% of that was subsidy’s. It's a Scam. As I write this, on a clear cold day, 2°C, the UKs entire 4,483 wind turbine fleet is producing- just … 2.7% of demand !!! pathetic. BUT making loads of cash for developers (mainly foreign), & energy prices are set to rise again to pay for it all. Note:- As at July 2012, UK companies own just – 12% of offshore wind. 37% of on land wind. 74% of ALL British Electricity Generating is foreign owned.!! save energy

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save energy says...
10:36am Thu 21 Mar 13

Sorry guys, something weird happened on posting, it’s printed twice (could do with an edit facility)

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Lorca says...
11:04am Thu 21 Mar 13

1. Energy bills are soaring mainly because of the rising cost of gas.

2. Cammel Laird has invested heavily in the wind industry so it is undoubtedly creating jobs locally.

3. Climate change is a scientific reality and UKIP is the only party that ignores science.

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save energy says...
2:35pm Fri 22 Mar 13

Lorca says. -
“1 Energy bills are soaring mainly because of the rising cost of gas.”

Yes, driven up by our increasing reliance on the gas-turbines required to load follow intermittent ‘renewables’ & ‘Carbon Taxes’.
What would prompt, Gregory Barker, a business major with no formal technical training and a former employee of a large Russian energy company and a current friend of Roman Abravovich, to want to serve as Minister of DECC? Barker’s only apparent qualification here is that he once served as the head of communications for a Russian oil company. I hope you are now catching a whiff of what I smell here? Something about this stinks, and it may smell all the way to the top. Realize that, over the next decade, Britain could become a £100 billion market for Gazprom. The millions it might cost to buy a few well placed politicos would be but chicken feed money.
And, clearly, anything done in the UK which stymies the UK’s production of its own natural gas and oil would be a benefit to Gazprom.
Realize that here we are talking over time about hundreds of billions of Euros over the next decade. FYI, Russian natural gas currently sells in Europe, for a price that is many times what natural gas now costs in the USA and Canada. Something here really smells bad…and its not the gas !!

”2. Cammel Laird has invested heavily in the wind industry so it is undoubtedly creating jobs locally.”

& that’s great for the few hundred involved, but remember these are service jobs, the manufacturing jobs (where the real money is ) are overseas. The Irish Sea windfarms are 50% foreign owned.

“3. Climate change is a scientific reality and UKIP is the only party that ignores science.”

Climate change has been a scientific reality for 4.5 billion yrs & will be long after we’ve gone !!

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aarbeloa says...
7:48pm Fri 22 Mar 13

Ultimately the letter is about the author being more concerned about Windfarms obscuring the view from his house rather than the jobs it may or may not create.

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save energy says...
11:45pm Fri 22 Mar 13

aarbeloa wrote:
Ultimately the letter is about the author being more concerned about Windfarms obscuring the view from his house rather than the jobs it may or may not create.

I don’t think the writer mentioned views from his house ??

Just how bad they are for energy production, a drain on our economy & the hundreds of thousands of jobs that have been promised over the last 15yrs …..have never materialized.

While politicians are nieve enough to grasp any numbers (the bigger the better) in the hope it makes them look good in the eye of the voters, most people are sensible & when presented with the truth, laugh at these fairy dust figures.

Is wind really the driver of sustainable jobs, or just a manner of impoverishing consumers for the years to come while developers and manufacturers flourish?

Wind farms work on the 'Robin Hood in reverse' principle - you rob the poor and give the money to the rich.

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Hugo1008 says...
10:48am Sun 24 Mar 13

Shock News: Wind Farms do actually improve local employment, they are not a complete waste of money, and can be benificial to both local and national economics.

What would be even more beneficial and welcomed would be a bridge over the Mersey, complete with a power generation facility built into the structure, the revenue from both the crossing charges and the electricity production would pay for its self in a few short years provided all the revenue is ring fenced for such a project.

The problem with the disgraceful local tax generated by the present tunnel crossings is it not ring fenced exclusivly for cross river vehical traffic usage only.

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save energy says...
1:01pm Sun 24 Mar 13

Hugo1008 wrote:
Shock News: Wind Farms do actually improve local employment, they are not a complete waste of money, and can be benificial to both local and national economics.

What would be even more beneficial and welcomed would be a bridge over the Mersey, complete with a power generation facility built into the structure, the revenue from both the crossing charges and the electricity production would pay for its self in a few short years provided all the revenue is ring fenced for such a project.

The problem with the disgraceful local tax generated by the present tunnel crossings is it not ring fenced exclusivly for cross river vehical traffic usage only.

"Wind Farms do actually improve local employment, they are not a complete waste of money, and can be benificial to both local and national economics."

Can you show us the figures to prove that please ??

"What would be even more beneficial and welcomed would be a bridge over the Mersey, complete with a power generation facility built into the structure, the revenue from both the crossing charges and the electricity production would pay for its self in a few short years provided all the revenue is ring fenced for such a project."

And can you show the figures to prove that case??

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Dantealighieri says...
11:58am Mon 25 Mar 13

Lorca- Sorry been marooned in a pub on the Yorkshire Moors because of the snow. A terrible experience. So much for Global Warming. Oops. Sorry again, since Global surface temperatures haven't risen in 15 years, it's now called Climate Change. 'Climate change is a scientific reality and UKIP is the only party that ignores science'. Still, to be even handed, I'll give you a couple of quotes in support of your beliefs. 'Only an insignificant fraction of scientists deny the global warming crisis. The time for debate is over. The science is settled'. Al Gore.1992. ' This disaster is not set to happen in some science fiction future many years ahead, but in our lifetime'. Tony Blair. 2006. 'The science is beyond dispute and the facts are clear'. Barrack Obama. 2008. There, now one for me and UKIP. 'Future generations will wonder in bemused amazement that the early 21st century's developed world went into hysterical panic over a globally average temperature increase of a few tenths of a degree and, on the basis of gross exaggeration of highly uncertain computer projections combined into implausible chains of inference, proceeded to contemplate a roll-back of the industrial age'. Professor Richard Linden, the worlds leading Atmospheric Physicist and Climate scientist. 2007. There we are then, three politicians, versus one scientist. Of course you can pick whoever you want to believe, there are scientists who will support your view, but 'man made' climate change or global warming is therefore not a scientific fact, unless of course you believe that science is like an opinion poll, more scientists believe it than those who don't , therefore it must be true. But even that balance has shifted the way of the 'deniers'. Anyhow UKIP may be the only party that thinks differently than the three main parties on climate change, but then Ukip was the only party that thought differently on immigration, now they are all running round like headless chickens trying to compete. We are all 'fruitcakes , loonies, and closet racists' now Don't be conned, they are not interested in you or this Country, they're only interested in power, and UKIP are threatening that.

Lorca- Sorry been marooned in a pub on the Yorkshire Moors because of the snow. A terrible experience. So much for Global Warming. Oops. Sorry again, since Global surface temperatures haven't risen in 15 years, it's now called Climate Change. 'Climate change is a scientific reality and UKIP is the only party that ignores science'. Still, to be even handed, I'll give you a couple of quotes in support of your beliefs. 'Only an insignificant fraction of scientists deny the global warming crisis. The time for debate is over. The science is settled'. Al Gore.1992. ' This disaster is not set to happen in some science fiction future many years ahead, but in our lifetime'. Tony Blair. 2006. 'The science is beyond dispute and the facts are clear'. Barrack Obama. 2008. There, now one for me and UKIP. 'Future generations will wonder in bemused amazement that the early 21st century's developed world went into hysterical panic over a globally average temperature increase of a few tenths of a degree and, on the basis of gross exaggeration of highly uncertain computer projections combined into implausible chains of inference, proceeded to contemplate a roll-back of the industrial age'. Professor Richard Linden, the worlds leading Atmospheric Physicist and Climate scientist. 2007. There we are then, three politicians, versus one scientist. Of course you can pick whoever you want to believe, there are scientists who will support your view, but 'man made' climate change or global warming is therefore not a scientific fact, unless of course you believe that science is like an opinion poll, more scientists believe it than those who don't , therefore it must be true. But even that balance has shifted the way of the 'deniers'. Anyhow UKIP may be the only party that thinks differently than the three main parties on climate change, but then Ukip was the only party that thought differently on immigration, now they are all running round like headless chickens trying to compete. We are all 'fruitcakes , loonies, and closet racists' now Don't be conned, they are not interested in you or this Country, they're only interested in power, and UKIP are threatening that. Dantealighieri

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David Scott says...
3:21pm Tue 26 Mar 13

Remove the massive public subsidy from wind farms and they would not be happening. Even on the 'green' argument they fail - when all factors are taken into account they do not cut C02 going into the atmosphere

The immediate crisis of course is the closing of the UK's major coal fired power stations that supply the bulk of our power generation, in order to comply with half-baked EU emissions laws.

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red devil says...
3:21pm Tue 26 Mar 13

wind farms dont and never will work with current technology. they are simply not cost effective. This built on mockbeggar Bank hardly ever move, are they there to frighten the crows away???

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Hugo1008 says...
4:10pm Wed 27 Mar 13

Save Energy Says:

I don't need to supply figures, but just think a little bit outside the box.

Some of the Senior Managers, Designers, Technicians and other Labour force connected to the power industry, actually live in the Wirral, and travel to and from the various locations on a daily basis, they pay Taxes, Rates, Tunnel Fees,School Fees, Car and Garage Costs and shop in the local stores, plus occasionally eat in local hostelries, so that takes care of Employment and Contribution to the local Economy issues.
There are also a number companies based in the Merseyside Area that employ a substantial number of Skilled Tradesmen, Maintenance, and Service Staff, who are actively engaged on Construction, and Installation both Onshore and Offshore to supply you with a commodity you cannot live without.

About a bridge over the River Mersey, perhaps you can supply figures that prove any River Crossing or Power Generation that does not produce vast amounts of Income, and Circulation of Finance in huge quantities anywhere in the world, thus improving and enhancing the lifestyle and well being of the local population.

Simple message put your brain in gear before you let your mouth run off, and learn to read the posting properly.

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save energy says...
5:20pm Wed 27 Mar 13

Hugo says

“Simple message put your brain in gear before you let your mouth run off, and learn to read the posting properly”.

Hugo
What are you on ??
Perhaps YOU need to read things more carefully rather than invent things

I most certainly DID NOT SAY -

“I don't need to supply figures, but just think a little bit outside the box.”

I always supply figures or refs to backup any claims or statements I make.

Maybe you could do the same !

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Hugo1008 says...
9:14pm Wed 27 Mar 13

Hey "Save Energy Says":

I did exactley as you asked, I supplied the answers to your questions, chapter and verse, not just "figures" that can be arranged to mean just about anything.

That is why we are in such a mess reading numbers and ignoring proper life information.

The first line of the posting is your title Pillock, not a statement..

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No.9 says...
11:03am Thu 28 Mar 13

Well I suppose there'll be a "few" jobs going - not the "many" promised by Pat Hackett though! Thanks to the nutters in Whitehall we're committed, under an EU agreement, to generating a third of our energy from "renewable" sources, mainly from the introduction of yet more turbines - at a huge cost. It's the crazy subsidies that gall me. Turbines never work to their full capacity and based on Germany's average 2012 output capacity of around 17.5% (sorry, got no data for UK), then they're probably costing more in subsidies than the value of the power generated... and guess who's paying!

The problem with wind power is storage. Solve this and it could actually supply 100% of our power. Also I think the roll-out of onshore turbines should be reigned in as the offshore farms are far more efficient.

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save energy says...
11:10am Thu 28 Mar 13

Hugo1008 you say -
“The first line of the posting is your title Pillock, not a statement.”

Err NO.

- Save Energy – is my title.

- Says - is a reporting verb.

verb (says /sɛz/; past and past participle said /sɛd/)
1 utter words so as to convey information, an opinion, a feeling or intention, or an instruction:
from - http://oxforddiction
aries.com/definition
/english/say?q=+Says

Your title is Hugo1008,
not
Hugo1008 says - (that’s reporting what you said)

Here endeth the lesson.
(And IF I were being pedantic that’s the - Archaic third-person singular simple present indicative form of end.).
Simples.

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save energy says...
11:11am Thu 28 Mar 13

Back to the subject.

Hugo1008 you said –

1 - ”That is why we are in such a mess reading numbers and ignoring proper life information.”

YES indeed,
because most people don’t have an understanding of economics (sadly a lot don’t have basic math’s), science or engineering.

The general level of ignorance of technical subjects in the political class is appalling, yet they make the decisions that affect us all.

We are in a mess because WE’VE allowed the idiots to run the asylum.

2 - “ I did exactley as you asked, I supplied the answers to your questions, chapter and verse, not just "figures" that can be arranged to mean just about anything.”

No you gave a vague description of a possible way of killing 2 birds with 1 stone, that’s good blue sky thinking, but is not an answer, more work needs to be done.

Your idea for a crossing may or may-not be a good idea but the only way to find out is to run some quick cost / benefit calculations.

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No.9 says...
11:44am Thu 28 Mar 13

Regarding energy from the Mersey, in 2011 Peel Energy finalised a feasibility study into the tidal power of the Mersey but won't be progressing until there's a financial and regulatory framework in place.

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bickyboy says...
8:35pm Sun 31 Mar 13

Wave power is the way forward. This island is surrounded by it, and as long as we have a Moon and the Earth keeps turning, the sea will never stop moving.

Why, therefore are the authorities charged with our energy generation and distribution so obsessed with wind power, and telling us that our bills will have go up in order to facilitate this supposed long term solution to our green energy needs ?

The answer has to be "vested interests"; what else can it be?

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bigfoot says...
12:46pm Fri 5 Apr 13

These 'renewable' energy is like the Emperors new cloths. When Calder Hall/Windscale/Sella
field was opened in the late fifties we were all promised cheap electricity-what happened?
Now our nuclear has been sold to a foreign government and so have the wind farms.

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Wind farms won't generate local jobs (From Wirral Globe)

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