Scrap tunnel tolls 'at your peril'
I WRITE in response to the front page banner headline Council unites to scrap tolls' (Globe, April 23).
What sort of encouragement to use public transport is this? Absolutely no encouragement at all! I have written before on this subject and I will emphasise again, scrapping the tunnel tolls will cause untold damage to the environment through car and commercial vehicle exhaust fumes, untold traffic congestion and, more than anything, uncontrolled loss of passengers and revenue to the Mersey Railway which will lead to job losses to station staff and train crews.
Merseyrail has an excellent five minute train service from Hamilton Square under the river into Liverpool formed of the 15-minute departures from New Brighton, West Kirby and Hooton (the Hooton departures formed of the half-hourly services from Chester and Ellesmere Port).
Surely this campaign by Wirral councillors and the Mersey Tunnel Users' Association is misguided in the fact that the tolls on the Scottish bridges were instigated because the bridges concerned are the only links to the relevant places? (the Skye Bridge and the Erskine Bridge to name two).
And where do these people think that the money to maintain the tunnels is coming from? It will finish up coming from the taxpayers' pockets!
I urge Wirral Council and the other campaigners to think again or I'm afraid I will be one person who will reconsider who I will be voting for.
Name and address supplied
2:23pm Tuesday 29th April 2008
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CommentPosted by: Lorca, Wirral on 4:23pm Tue 29 Apr 08
Excellent letter and a good response to the blatant hypocrisy of the mainstream parties. I know Wirral Green Party has written several letters along these lines which the Globe has failed to publish.
Excellent letter and a good response to the blatant hypocrisy of the mainstream parties. I know Wirral Green Party has written several letters along these lines which the Globe has failed to publish.
Posted by: Alan, Wallasey on 3:55pm Wed 30 Apr 08
The writer is Councillor Mark O'Dowd and I claim my five pounds.
What a load of rubbish. If public transport was reliable and cheap then people would use it. It isn't so they don't.
Personally I don't mind paying a smaller amount for the use of the tunnels just to cover maintenance and staffing but they are a rip off and a cash cow for public tranport schemes not to mention pretty flowers etc.
I am at a loss to understand the reference to Scotland? Surely they have scrapped all tolls up there now?
The writer is Councillor Mark O'Dowd and I claim my five pounds.
What a load of rubbish. If public transport was reliable and cheap then people would use it. It isn't so they don't.
Personally I don't mind paying a smaller amount for the use of the tunnels just to cover maintenance and staffing but they are a rip off and a cash cow for public tranport schemes not to mention pretty flowers etc.
I am at a loss to understand the reference to Scotland? Surely they have scrapped all tolls up there now?
Posted by: Chris Bindall, Wirral on 12:29pm Thu 1 May 08
I'm all right, Jack, then, Mr Anonymous.
What about those people who don't live right next to a traion station - ie an awful lot of the Wirral population.
Hug your trees all you like - some of us have to get to work and don't see why we should be penalised for it.
"The only way" to get to Skye? Don't they have boats in Scotland?
"Save a penguin - feed the world"
I'm all right, Jack, then, Mr Anonymous.
What about those people who don't live right next to a traion station - ie an awful lot of the Wirral population.
Hug your trees all you like - some of us have to get to work and don't see why we should be penalised for it.
"The only way" to get to Skye? Don't they have boats in Scotland?
"Save a penguin - feed the world"
Posted by: Lorca, Wirral on 3:45pm Thu 1 May 08
Demonising people as tree huggers is missing the point. Oil is getting more and more expensive and will have to be rationed in the not-to-distant future. The rational thing is to reduce our dependance not pretend the problem does not exist. Scrapping the tunnel tolls just takes us in completely the wrong direction. We need a massive switch to sustainable transport and our politicians are just ignoring the issue.
Demonising people as tree huggers is missing the point. Oil is getting more and more expensive and will have to be rationed in the not-to-distant future. The rational thing is to reduce our dependance not pretend the problem does not exist. Scrapping the tunnel tolls just takes us in completely the wrong direction. We need a massive switch to sustainable transport and our politicians are just ignoring the issue.
Posted by: dave, heswall on 6:16pm Thu 1 May 08
Mr Dowd or whoever the original letter writer is; if this hike in the tunnel fares was meant to be a climate change measure - why have you doubled the tolls for buses? A slight flaw in your genius plan I think.....
It's obvious the letter is from somebody in Merseytravel, as they are (rightly) being slated from all directions at the moment, and so need to try and restore their PR image. Let's be honest- most of the Merseytravel top brass are parasites (i stress that this does not include the honest men ad nwomen who man (!) the toll boothes, but rather the greedy and arrogant excustives) - why do you all need nice new offices paid for out of the fare rise? Why do we need to fund the failed merseytrams project? Why are we users of the tunnels paying for a statue for Ken Dodd? He deserves one, but not paid for by a company which is meant to look after the tunnels.
One of these days the Government will want to look more closely at the situation at Merseytavel- they have already seen evidence of incompetence and vast sums of money being squandered by Merseytravel executives... I can't wait for when the likes of Dowd lose their perks and privledges and he goes back to just being a plain ordinary little Labour councillor for Sefton- at least then it mean he doesn't stick his nose into Wirral affairs
Mr Dowd or whoever the original letter writer is; if this hike in the tunnel fares was meant to be a climate change measure - why have you doubled the tolls for buses? A slight flaw in your genius plan I think.....
It's obvious the letter is from somebody in Merseytravel, as they are (rightly) being slated from all directions at the moment, and so need to try and restore their PR image. Let's be honest- most of the Merseytravel top brass are parasites (i stress that this does not include the honest men ad nwomen who man (!) the toll boothes, but rather the greedy and arrogant excustives) - why do you all need nice new offices paid for out of the fare rise? Why do we need to fund the failed merseytrams project? Why are we users of the tunnels paying for a statue for Ken Dodd? He deserves one, but not paid for by a company which is meant to look after the tunnels.
One of these days the Government will want to look more closely at the situation at Merseytavel- they have already seen evidence of incompetence and vast sums of money being squandered by Merseytravel executives... I can't wait for when the likes of Dowd lose their perks and privledges and he goes back to just being a plain ordinary little Labour councillor for Sefton- at least then it mean he doesn't stick his nose into Wirral affairs
Posted by: stewart bell, wallasey on 7:28pm Thu 1 May 08
It does make me smile when i read the constant bleating about the tunnel tolls. I have been going through the tunnel 5 or 6 days a week for the last 15 years and it hasnt cost me a penny, How ?i use my motorbike its quicker, healthier, and i never get stuck in those great long lines going through the toll booths. And yes i know not everyone can ride a bike but im sure if just a third of the people in cars converted the congestion would be gone. the only time you ever see congestion involving bikes is on the egg run. So stop moaning stop hoping take control and get on your bike.
It does make me smile when i read the constant bleating about the tunnel tolls. I have been going through the tunnel 5 or 6 days a week for the last 15 years and it hasnt cost me a penny, How ?i use my motorbike its quicker, healthier, and i never get stuck in those great long lines going through the toll booths. And yes i know not everyone can ride a bike but im sure if just a third of the people in cars converted the congestion would be gone. the only time you ever see congestion involving bikes is on the egg run. So stop moaning stop hoping take control and get on your bike.
Posted by: Dave Rimmer, Wallasey on 10:14pm Thu 1 May 08
Stewart you are indeed quite right but just remember the only reason that motorcycles are free is that the equipment that is installed there could only handle 4 categories of vehicle and as motorcycles were the least used category it was them that were made free. So, if car users turned to motorcycles and they became bigger users than cars bet you cant guess what Merseytravel would then do?....yep got it in one.
Stewart you are indeed quite right but just remember the only reason that motorcycles are free is that the equipment that is installed there could only handle 4 categories of vehicle and as motorcycles were the least used category it was them that were made free. So, if car users turned to motorcycles and they became bigger users than cars bet you cant guess what Merseytravel would then do?....yep got it in one.
Posted by: Harry Allotment, Birkenhead on 11:50am Fri 2 May 08
Everybody understands that there are many Mersey Tunnel users that don't, in practical terms, have the luxury of a public transport alternative in order to get to work, no problem. But Wirral does have an excellent rail system (far better than the one in Liverpool, Sefton or worse still, Knowsley) and many people who could easily use it don't. They might say it's too expensive, or dirty, or smelly people use it or whatever but basically they are making a judgement that they are content to buy, maintain and fuel a car because it is convenient. Such individuals should take note that in the next 10 years fuel is likely to go through the roof and you will be squeezed. Do yourself a favour; think seriously about changing the way you get to work. Trains and buses can be OK and sometimes life outside of the bubble that is your car is far more interesting. Remember also if Mersey Tunnel fees are used to fund a better public transport infrastructure on both sides of the river it will lower the pressure on roads and parking in central Liverpool and that will lower the cost of commuting helping those who have no other alternative.
Everybody understands that there are many Mersey Tunnel users that don't, in practical terms, have the luxury of a public transport alternative in order to get to work, no problem. But Wirral does have an excellent rail system (far better than the one in Liverpool, Sefton or worse still, Knowsley) and many people who could easily use it don't. They might say it's too expensive, or dirty, or smelly people use it or whatever but basically they are making a judgement that they are content to buy, maintain and fuel a car because it is convenient. Such individuals should take note that in the next 10 years fuel is likely to go through the roof and you will be squeezed. Do yourself a favour; think seriously about changing the way you get to work. Trains and buses can be OK and sometimes life outside of the bubble that is your car is far more interesting. Remember also if Mersey Tunnel fees are used to fund a better public transport infrastructure on both sides of the river it will lower the pressure on roads and parking in central Liverpool and that will lower the cost of commuting helping those who have no other alternative.
Posted by: rob, wirral on 3:56pm Fri 2 May 08
the tunnels where bulit by merseyside people and to have a small charge to cover the build. in birkenheads case the toll was in place for 40 years maximum. over 80 years on we are still paying, charges are rising dramatically and the debt is still through the roof . it will be another 50 years before its paid. why have the goal posts moved and why has repayment plan gone so badly?
how and why does the money get squandered away from the tunnels? its either been siphoned off at the barriers in the old days, or wasted on interest and debt and other crap. the people of merseyside suffer for the incompetence of the 70's and 80's , and now it continues with another £70m for doomed tram service [yes £70 MILLION], £10m for escape passageways [theres another tunnel under the one vehicles use its already built! money wasted on statues and flower boxes [how much did all these boxes cost to build and now maintain?] . why should tunnel money be used elsewhere? did the busses and trains pay for the tunnel to be built, NO? why should the tunnel now subsidise trains, trams and busses? why do merseytravel have a monopoly on crossing the river [trains,busses,roads
,ferries]?
its so obvious that passenger transport authorities should not be running our highways there is a clear conflict of interests. after 80+ years its clearly not working. scotland got rid of their tolls, dartford gave huge 80% discounts for local people , manchester got a £100m road link to a shopping centre and we get INCREASES IN OUR TOLLS? we want to have at least the same as other areas such as thames, conwy , cheshire, etc. who all travel 100% FREE over bridges and tunnels.
hypocrites ...they want more people to use busses but then hit the bus companies with increases which they then pass on to users. they want safe tunnels but then close wallasey lanes and cause road chaos and dangers with oncoming traffic numerous times weekly just to so unnecessary things like film tv car chases in tunnels ... their main concern after safety should be losing the debt and interest payments but they dont even have a gameplan in running the tunnels propely ... what hope is there? If there is all this debt then how can they possibly comprehend spending a single penny until they sort their finances out?
local councillors on both sides of the river have a duty to the people who elected them to put things right.
the tunnels where bulit by merseyside people and to have a small charge to cover the build. in birkenheads case the toll was in place for 40 years maximum. over 80 years on we are still paying, charges are rising dramatically and the debt is still through the roof . it will be another 50 years before its paid. why have the goal posts moved and why has repayment plan gone so badly?
how and why does the money get squandered away from the tunnels? its either been siphoned off at the barriers in the old days, or wasted on interest and debt and other crap. the people of merseyside suffer for the incompetence of the 70's and 80's , and now it continues with another £70m for doomed tram service , £10m for escape passageways . why should tunnel money be used elsewhere? did the busses and trains pay for the tunnel to be built, NO? why should the tunnel now subsidise trains, trams and busses? why do merseytravel have a monopoly on crossing the river ?
its so obvious that passenger transport authorities should not be running our highways there is a clear conflict of interests. after 80+ years its clearly not working. scotland got rid of their tolls, dartford gave huge 80% discounts for local people , manchester got a £100m road link to a shopping centre and we get INCREASES IN OUR TOLLS? we want to have at least the same as other areas such as thames, conwy , cheshire, etc. who all travel 100% FREE over bridges and tunnels.
hypocrites ...they want more people to use busses but then hit the bus companies with increases which they then pass on to users. they want safe tunnels but then close wallasey lanes and cause road chaos and dangers with oncoming traffic numerous times weekly just to so unnecessary things like film tv car chases in tunnels ... their main concern after safety should be losing the debt and interest payments but they dont even have a gameplan in running the tunnels propely ... what hope is there? If there is all this debt then how can they possibly comprehend spending a single penny until they sort their finances out?
local councillors on both sides of the river have a duty to the people who elected them to put things right.
Posted by: stewart bell, wallasey on 7:53pm Mon 5 May 08
dave, ive got a car and a bike and if they make it free for buses ill get one of them thats the point im making
dave, ive got a car and a bike and if they make it free for buses ill get one of them thats the point im making
Posted by: Dave Rimmer, Wallasey on 9:36pm Tue 6 May 08
All angles covered eh, Stew, very prudent but have you got a plan for Merseytravel charging for your CO2 emissions, you`ll then need an electric powered vehicle.
All angles covered eh, Stew, very prudent but have you got a plan for Merseytravel charging for your CO2 emissions, you`ll then need an electric powered vehicle.
Posted by: stewartbell, wallasey on 7:23pm Thu 8 May 08
the wifes broomstick is ready and waiting dave.
the wifes broomstick is ready and waiting dave.
Posted by: Dave Rimmer, Wallasey on 10:39am Fri 9 May 08
Stew, believe me, Merseytravel will find a way of even charging for her indoors transport.
Stew, believe me, Merseytravel will find a way of even charging for her indoors transport.
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