Welfare based on need should be scrapped - Frank Field

Welfare based on need should be scrapped - Frank Field Welfare based on need should be scrapped - Frank Field

A FUTURE Labour government should scrap the idea of a welfare system based on need and move instead to one which rewards those who have contributed to it.

The controversial call comes from Birkenhead MP Frank Field, who says Labour should commit itself to a new “welfare reform contract” with national insurance as its cornerstone.

Last week the Conservative chancellor, George Osborne, committed the government to reducing the cost of welfare by a further £10bn as it pursues more “austerity” measures designed to reduce the UK’s debt.

But Mr Field believes the current system is broken-backed, cannot be fixed and governments should not waste political capital in trying to prove otherwise.

He said: “Since 1948 there has been 15-fold increase in real terms in welfare spending. The welfare bills escalate, the number of claimants increase, but independence is not encouraged.

“As we now have a welfare state based on meeting need, this encourages individuals, not unreasonably, to try to ensure they qualify under this guise.

"It therefore pays to lie about ones earnings, to cheat, or to be inactive. The worst side of human nature is encouraged, the best is penalised.

He continued: “The next Labour government must commit itself to turning a welfare state which now largely meets needs to one where help is based primarily on contributions.

“No one should be under any illusion as to what a fundamental change this is. There could be no more fundamental commitment to welfare reform than making this declaration and acting on it.”

Mr Field stressed there are no easy fixes in carrying through a reform of this magnitude.

But he said he believes it's crucial for Labour to declare its intent to make fundamental changes,  sketch out immediate policies to begin that process and  register the idea with voters that even more radical reforms will be required.

“In moving away from our current welfare state it is crucial to make a new contract with taxpayers so they know that, over time, their contributions will be better rewarded than those who qualify only on the basis of need," said Mr Field.

“This cannot be achieved immediately, but this should be one of the Labour Party’s longer-term aims.”

In May of this year, Mr Field produced a report for Prime Minister David Cameron on how to break the cycle of state dependence and poverty.

But he claimed Number 10 has ignored his findings and doubted whether Mr Cameron had even read it.

Comments(19)

Jimrob says...
10:30pm Tue 16 Oct 12

Just how in the hell can an 18 year old have already paid into the system Frank?

Come to that. What happens if, as is quite often the case here in the REAL world of Merseyside, not the Ivory Towers of Whitehall and the South East, a young person is unable to find work for a couple of years. Should they be allowed to starve to death or live on the streets?

YOU REALLY ARE IN THE WRONG PARTY aren't you FrankieBoy?

Jimrob says...
10:38pm Tue 16 Oct 12

"It therefore pays to lie about ones earnings, to cheat, or to be inactive. The worst side of human nature is encouraged, the best is penalised. "

Now that sounds like the perfect description of EVERY Banker and Financier in the Country Frank. Now here's a really radical thought......

.....How's about chasing the people that have brought this country to it's knees instead of doing the Tories work for them and attacking the very people who, through no fault of their own, find themselves in a bankrupt country, caused mainly by the policies and stupidity of your own party?

(Sorry to all readers for the double posting but FrankieBoy has made my blood boil recently)

David Scott says...
10:40pm Tue 16 Oct 12

I don't see how the title to this matches what is actually said in the article.

That apart, the practicality of what Frank seems to be saying is less than clear, and does Frank really expect a Labour government to want to implement such ideas?

p.s. Why is Frank's website coloured green, and why no mention of being a Labour MP?!

johnbrace says...
4:40am Wed 17 Oct 12

"Why is Frank's website coloured green?"

I would guess (although this is just my opinion) that green is the colour of the House of Commons where he is an MP (the colour of the seats should be a big clue).

"Why no mention of being a Labour MP?"

The website is paid for by the taxpayer at a cost of £1,570 in year 2011/2012. This amount covers photos for the website (£370) and hosting (£1200). Therefore there are restrictions on such party political activity on it due to the taxpayer funding.

David Scott says...
9:58am Wed 17 Oct 12

Other MPs seem to have no difficulty with using their party's colour or stating the party's name on their website.

Wirral_Man says...
10:25am Wed 17 Oct 12

I think Frank is great as he's not afraid to speak his mind or the truth no matter how much upset it will cause to the party line :)

The increasign 15 fold is an even more scary figure than Nick Clegg's quote recently that since the war the economy has grown 3 fold but government spending has grown 7 fold...........

We've all got to accept that the Gov can't pay for everything or accept higher taxes!

David Scott says...
10:56am Wed 17 Oct 12

Frank wouldn't be an MP and have a state-funded platform if he weren't the Labour Party MP. It would be more honest if he stood as an independent.

As to his ideas, if he explained them clearly I might agree with some of them. For instance, it would be a good idea if the basic pension were raised substantially, and pension credit ended. But is that what Frank is saying? He is opaque when it comes to the detail.

The_voice says...
11:38am Wed 17 Oct 12

Welfare should only be based on NEED not on your contributions. There are far too many examples of groups of people who would adversely affected by such a system. The youth would clearly be the hardest hit. Currently there are nearly a million unemployed 16-24 who have never made any contributions or perhaps only small amounts. How can they be denied support if they haven't had chance to contribute? Are the disabled another group that we are expecting to have made contributions? What about parents who have stayed at home to look after their children all their life, should we deny them a pension?

An ill thought out plan by an MP whose report was ignored by the all parties.

council officer says...
12:34pm Wed 17 Oct 12

We all know Sir Frank of Birkenhead is a bit off the wall. A number of years ago he put forward his proposal to change the welfare state and was completely ignored. He needs to get back into the real world does old Frankie boy. When it comes to arguing between need and contribution, then I believe that pensioners who have worked all their lives should always get more than someone who hasn't contributed. Unless, of course you had reason e.g. Disability or Caring responsibility. It seem unfair that someone can work all their lives and not be any better off.

charlie stevenson says...
2:34pm Wed 17 Oct 12

William Beveridge would turn in his grave. The system was not created to embrace the Darwinian theory "survival of the fittest"There is a portion of our society that has nothing to offer and are failing themselves society and ultimately 'their' future offspring.Is it totally necessary to continue rising and
appeasing those that shout loudest.

Charlie Stevenson.

charlie stevenson says...
10:25pm Wed 17 Oct 12

The consecutive government administrations have consistently allowed perfectly fit and healthy individuals to rot, is it not the fault of the "Nanny state" and their payment for non contributionery efforts of the failed (potential) workforce. Let us try to focus on future generations and leave the state dependant cohort to exist as was previously convenient.

David Scott says...
9:06am Thu 18 Oct 12

Frank Field in today's Sun:

Why benefits system makes people cheat

Labour MP slams 'broken-backed' reforms

By FRANK FIELD, Former Welfare Minister

IS Britain’s benefits system fit for purpose?
Former Minister for Welfare Reform Frank Field doesn’t think so.

Here, in an exclusive article for The Sun, he tells readers what has gone wrong and what can be done about it.

OUR current system of welfare is broken-backed.

It cannot be fixed and governments should not waste too much precious political capital trying to prove otherwise.

Since 1948 there has been a 15-fold increase in real terms in welfare spending.

Each new government attempts a new reform.

Today, you can read about how three teenagers have kept off benefits by starting their own businesses but here I want to talk about what we can do to reform the benefits system itself. Despite our current welfare system dating back 70 years, those who introduced it would hardly recognise it today.

In 1942 William Beveridge published his report on reform to the welfare state. He advocated a new model of welfare provision based on a contributory-based system of national insurance.

His scheme, which was introduced by the great reforming government of Clement Attlee, introduced benefits which were payable based on individuals’ contributions.

In other words, people were expected to contribute to the system according to how much they earned.

Beveridge saw individual responsibility as paramount to his system.

His values were hard work, honesty and prudence.

His proposed national insurance system was designed, therefore, to reward people who played by the rules and contributed to society.

It promoted, in simple terms, good behaviour.

In the intervening 70 years successive governments have steadily eroded this central plank of Beveridge’s welfare state.

Means testing is slowly killing the insurance principle. Through means testing, welfare in this country is now provided primarily on the basis of need rather than contribution.

Gordon Brown’s means-tested tax credits and their logical successor, Iain Duncan Smith’s means-tested universal credit, institutionalise this change.

Means-tested benefits can promote the worst side of human nature.

It encourages dishonesty and penalises those who save.

It therefore pays to lie about one’s earnings, to cheat or to be inactive.

Means testing benefits makes moving into work less attractive.

The problem is that sometimes 96p is deducted from every extra pound earned.

These marginal deduction rates make it economically rational not to move into work.

The Government claim the universal credit will overcome this problem. It won’t. By leaving council tax benefit out of the universal credit, marginal deduction rates will remain as high as they ever were.

The pension credit also encourages many people to make the rational decision not to save for retirement.

What is the point when income from savings will reduce pension credit entitlement?

At its worst, means testing encourages people not to declare income, to protect their benefit income.

I believe that voters are where Beveridge was.

They support the national insurance system.

And here is the opportunity for Labour.

The Coalition has nailed its colours to the universal credit mast.

I believe Labour should begin to construct a manifesto proposal which seeks to rebuild an insurance-based welfare system.

It is the only sustainable solution and will put the party firmly in line with public opinion.

With three years left before the next General Election in 2015, will Ed Miliband seize his chance?

Spiffy says...
9:38am Thu 18 Oct 12

Just as Frank is oblivious to the actual meaning of "poverty" he is to that of "need". If he knows personally of liars and cheats defrauding the benefits system he'd better start dialling the Fraud Hotline: 0800 854 440 or report it online at: (www.)gov.uk/report-
benefit-fraud
...
He appears to wish for a return to Pre-1997 when you could either claim Supplementary Benefit or Unemployment Benefit. The latter was paid at the higher rate and eligibility conditional on having paid full NI for the preceding two years...although if you had a break between jobs of six months or less then you could still qualify.
...
As it was based on two years worth of NI contributions then you could only claim it for two years and then you either had to get a job or sign off and claim Supplementary Benefit.
...
There was no such thing as "benefits for life" with few conditions (if any) until Frank and his Labour Party slowly but surely morphed the welfare system into the monstrosity it is today.
...
Thanks also to Frank's party we now have the EU attempting to force the UK government to grant full and immediate entitlement to all benefits to all EU migrants.
...
Frank, you were an integral part of the party that completely ruined this country for generations to come. I'd wish you luck in squishing the genie back into the bottle but we all know you haven't got a hope in hell of doing it.
...
Even if anyone DID listen to you.

David Scott says...
11:19am Thu 18 Oct 12

Well said, Spiffy, not least for mentioning the elephant in the room: "Thanks also to Frank's party we now have the EU attempting to force the UK government to grant full and immediate entitlement to all benefits to all EU migrants."


...

bickyboy says...
7:08pm Sat 20 Oct 12

Logan's Run for the long term poor?

Paves the way for a two-tier welfare system, does this; where those who have managed to find a job and contribute to NI are rewarded with higher benefit payments if they become unemployed, and those who(possibly through no fault of their own) have not found work and thus paid nothing end up living at the local foodbank.

I think you need to clarify, Frank; because right now this sounds less like the solution to poverty, and more like the Final Solution to poverty.

dave301bounty says...
8:22pm Sat 20 Oct 12

Spiffey ,well said ,well said indeed .Frank these must be a few of probably hundreds of peoples thoughts ,,get on with it .

David Scott says...
11:52pm Sat 20 Oct 12

If only Frank would spell his ideas out clearly - for instance is he in favour of leaving the EU to protect UK jobs and stop the opening up of UK benefits to the rest of the EU? If so, why is he in the Labour Party? If not, what hope can he possibly have for the UK benefits system, Labour government or no Labour government?

I notice the article below on his website. Can't say it's clear to me what his point is, other than what we (nearly) all want, cheaper fuel. Is he in favour of 'social tariffs' - if so, isn't that means testing?

His article:

"Social tariffs and fuel poverty

Winter is fast approaching and fuel bills are already high. Around 4 million households in the UK currently suffer from fuel poverty.

During winter 2010-11 over 25,000 more people died in the UK compared with non-winter periods. Many of these deaths can be directly attributed to fuel poverty.

In recent years, energy companies have responded by advertising social tariffs. I thought that the social tariff offer, which is meant to be for the most hard pressed consumers, would be the cheapest tariff provided by each company.

Not so. Energy suppliers continued to offer cheaper tariffs about which they have no duty to tell anyone, let alone the poorest consumers.

Last year, the Government introduced the Warm Home Discount (WHD) Scheme, which is now replacing social tariffs. Qualifying households, predominantly older people in receipt of the Guarantee Credit element of Pension Credit, but not the Savings Credit element, now receive a rebate of £120 off electricity bills.

But the core problem persists. There is simply no obligation for energy companies to switch vulnerable customers or even inform them of their cheapest tariff. So whilst some now get a rebate, they still might be paying much more than they need to.

I will soon be campaigning on this issue. Here is where you can help. Do you have examples of people on a social tariff or WHD Scheme who could have obtained a better deal from their supplier, or by changing supplier?

If you can help please do get in touch."

spamfiend says...
6:25pm Mon 22 Oct 12

Planet Frank must be a cosy well cushioned environment where the out of touch are welcome!!

Marjestic says...
1:37am Sat 27 Oct 12

Would it be too much to expect people to actually take some responsibility for their own lives? Frank is trying to make the point that welfare benefits should be paid on contributions and I don't see anything wrong with that. If you had no money in your bank account you wouldn't expect to be able to make a withdrawal. For far too long some people have milked the welfare system and now all of us are suffering the consequences. My daughters have children but they can manage to work to support them so why do some mothers and fathers think that they have the right to claim benefit and be able to choose to stay at home. My daughters cannot afford to stay at home because they have to feed and buy clothes for their children. They don't get Housing Benefit or free prescriptions but they pay taxes and should expect to get sickness benefit if they are ill and a reasonable pension when they retire. It is very annoying that people who haven't done a tap all their lives should expect to receive the same pension as someone who has worked for more than 40 years.

There are those who think that it's a mugs game to go out to work and they would rather watch others getting up in the morning and struggle to get to work while they watch daytime television or spend their time in the pubs and betting offices. It is a very unfair system and I think it needs radical change.

I think it should be mentioned that it was Tony Blair asked Frank to compile a report on the benefits system and 'to think the unthinkable' and when he did Tony was worried that he might upset his loyal benefit claimants so he swiftly moved Frank to the back benches. DC has asked for the same from Frank but it appears that Frank's findings have fallen on deaf ears.

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