UPDATED: Secret meeting allows suspended finance chief to take his pension and go

Wirral Globe: Secret meeting allows suspended finance chief to take his pension and retire early Secret meeting allows suspended finance chief to take his pension and retire early

A secret council meeting last night agreed to allow suspended finance director and former acting chief executive Ian Coleman to take his pension early and leave the authority.

The decision was reached as "it would not be in the public interest" to enter into a drawn out legal process.

Mr Coleman was one of four high-ranking council officials suspended from work in the wake of an investigation by local government watchdogs the audit commission.

The inquiry was triggered when a group of whistle-blowers in the highways department raised their concerns with Birkenhead MP Frank Field about the way an "outsourced" contract with the Colas company had been handled.

Their story was revealed exclusively in the Wirral Globe.

  The decision has led to a record number of comments on the Globe's website since we exclusively revealed it last week.

Graham Burgess, chief executive of Wirral Council, said today: "At a meeting of the employment and appointments committee [last night] it was agreed that the pension of Ian Coleman would be released, at a cost to the council of £82,528 to be paid over five years.

"This follows the meeting of an all-party investigatory and disciplinary committee, which considered the report of an investigation following Mr Coleman's suspension.

"This cross-party committee agreed that it would not be in the public interest to enter into a protracted legal process, with an uncertain outcome, considering the need to move forward and make new appointments to face the current budget challenge."

Mr Burgess said this process could have taken a considerable amount of time and resulted in costs upwards of £1m to the taxpayer.

He added: "To ensure full transparency the council will publish the reports presented to investigatory and disciplinary committee surrounding the suspended officers at the earliest point that it is legally possible to do so.

"We are not able to comment on the cases of the other suspended officers still under investigation."

The meeting last night at which the decision was reached was declared "exempt" from the press and public - and was so secret that even councillors summoned to attend were not given details of its purpose.

Council leader Cllr Phil Davies told the Globe: "The disciplinary committee had concluded there was not a clear prospect of a successful outcome and that the investigation could have taken up to two years to complete.

"The problem is we have suspended officers sitting at home on full pay and we as a council need to move forward with our management restructuring.

"With the costs forecast to escalate to more than £1m it was a pragmatic decision and I believe it was the right one to make."

Mr Coleman was suspend from work in June along with two other senior officers as the council launched an internal inquiry following the report from the audit commission.

The commission's review was highly-critical about the way the director of highways and technical services, David Green, had handled the "outsourced" maintenance contract with the Colas group.

Auditors said Mr Green, who has been suspended from work since March, had "probably breached" European procurement rules by meeting with a Colas manager during a process when several private sector companies - along with the council's own Direct Labour Organisation - were bidding against each other for the multi-million pound contract.

The inquiry also found councillors had not been kept informed of increasing problems as the contract ran its course nor was their approval sought for £1.4m of extra spending which became necessary as the highway maintenance works progressed.

On the day the auditor's report was published, Frank Field said it had exposed "astonishing basic failings" in the council's governance.

The investigation led to the suspensions of Mr Coleman along with the director of law, HR and asset management, Bill Norman, and deputy director of finance David Taylor-Smith.

 

Comments (152)

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10:07am Thu 4 Oct 12

bigfoot says...

Pay off no doubt enhanced by the nano seconds when he was acting CEO or similar!
Has he found another position hence the rapidity of the decision?
Pay off no doubt enhanced by the nano seconds when he was acting CEO or similar! Has he found another position hence the rapidity of the decision? bigfoot

10:17am Thu 4 Oct 12

ArdalMcFardle says...

"This cross-party committee agreed that it would not be in the public interest to..................
" hold people accountable?"

Look Burgess, he either did wrong or he didn't - don't hide behind the public interest and the need to " move forward " We have heard it all before, it's cowardly it's crass and it means you are hewn from the same diseased tree as those who have gone before. Nothing ever changes in the crazy demented world of WBC - This council genuinely makes me feel physically sick.

What did Jeff Green say "Over my dead body" ? Has somebody summoned a mortician to West Kirby
"This cross-party committee agreed that it would not be in the public interest to.................. " hold people accountable?" Look Burgess, he either did wrong or he didn't - don't hide behind the public interest and the need to " move forward " We have heard it all before, it's cowardly it's crass and it means you are hewn from the same diseased tree as those who have gone before. Nothing ever changes in the crazy demented world of WBC - This council genuinely makes me feel physically sick. What did Jeff Green say "Over my dead body" ? Has somebody summoned a mortician to West Kirby ArdalMcFardle

10:30am Thu 4 Oct 12

PeteSheff says...

Lets pick 3 random Standards in Public Life

Openness
Holders of public office should be as open as possible about all the decisions and actions that they take. They should give reasons for their decisions and restrict information only when the wider public interest clearly demands.

WBC is a is riddle of malfeasance, wrapped in a mystery compromise agreement, inside an enigma of a refused FOI request.

Objectivity
In carrying out public business, including making public appointments, awarding contracts, or recommending individuals for rewards and benefits, holders of public office should make choices on merit.

The rewards are many to those who acted without merit, breaking the law, acting illegally and discriminating against the vulnerable making their own rules up as they went along...

Accountability
Holders of public office are accountable for their decisions and actions to the public and must submit themselves to whatever scrutiny is appropriate to their office.

There is no way to dress this up. The running of the council has ended up that it is a one of the poorest performing councils needing LGA intervention on almost every aspect of its insular culture. When intervention does happen to investigate wrongdoing and bring those to account - they walk away at the expense of those whom they have failed patted on the back by those whom represent those whom they failed!

WBC expect people to move on and accept that changes will happen when these actions are rewarding those responsible.

WBC should in their clouded and insular ways at least be able to suspect that most of the complaints by long standing critics are based on the fundamental issue of lack of accountability... the inability to resolve issues as no one is ever held accountable...

How long until the other suspended Directors get similar offers? Maybe it has already happened?
Lets pick 3 random Standards in Public Life Openness Holders of public office should be as open as possible about all the decisions and actions that they take. They should give reasons for their decisions and restrict information only when the wider public interest clearly demands. WBC is a is riddle of malfeasance, wrapped in a mystery compromise agreement, inside an enigma of a refused FOI request. Objectivity In carrying out public business, including making public appointments, awarding contracts, or recommending individuals for rewards and benefits, holders of public office should make choices on merit. The rewards are many to those who acted without merit, breaking the law, acting illegally and discriminating against the vulnerable making their own rules up as they went along... Accountability Holders of public office are accountable for their decisions and actions to the public and must submit themselves to whatever scrutiny is appropriate to their office. There is no way to dress this up. The running of the council has ended up that it is a one of the poorest performing councils needing LGA intervention on almost every aspect of its insular culture. When intervention does happen to investigate wrongdoing and bring those to account - they walk away at the expense of those whom they have failed patted on the back by those whom represent those whom they failed! WBC expect people to move on and accept that changes will happen when these actions are rewarding those responsible. WBC should in their clouded and insular ways at least be able to suspect that most of the complaints by long standing critics are based on the fundamental issue of lack of accountability... the inability to resolve issues as no one is ever held accountable... How long until the other suspended Directors get similar offers? Maybe it has already happened? PeteSheff

10:57am Thu 4 Oct 12

WirralAl says...

Yet again another disgrace.

What message does it send out about being a senior officer at Wirral Council.

You can do what ever you want and the worse that will happen is you will get a tidy some bunged into your pension pot.

These people who have been suspended should be sacked and NOT A PENNY should be put into a pension pot or compromise agreement.

Is it Public Interest or what do the councillors want to avoid? Will it expose there failings?????.

Yet again another so called incompetent senior officer gets off without being held accountable.

You bang on about having to save money. No wounder when this council keep giving people pay off's

If someone cheats the benefits system rightfully they are held accountable and face the consequences.

If a senior officer of this council fails or gets suspended they get a nice pay off.

When a criminal is facing charges for theft for a bottle of Whiskey they go to court all we all have to pay the costs which are 100's times the cost of the loss.
This is called justice and the hope is it prevents others.

When a senior member of a coucil is a suspect of wrong doing YOU let them off the hook and pay a fortune to their pension fund and they walk away.

Is this justice? Will it encourage others not to follow?

If I protest and don't pay my council tax I will go to court and if I still do not pay I will eventually go to prison.

What message are you sending out to the people who pay the coucil tax?

One rule for us and one rule for you!!

Not justice at all. you have set a precedent for all others in senior positions and it is totally crass and wrong in every way possible.

Shame on you all.
Yet again another disgrace. What message does it send out about being a senior officer at Wirral Council. You can do what ever you want and the worse that will happen is you will get a tidy some bunged into your pension pot. These people who have been suspended should be sacked and NOT A PENNY should be put into a pension pot or compromise agreement. Is it Public Interest or what do the councillors want to avoid? Will it expose there failings?????. Yet again another so called incompetent senior officer gets off without being held accountable. You bang on about having to save money. No wounder when this council keep giving people pay off's If someone cheats the benefits system rightfully they are held accountable and face the consequences. If a senior officer of this council fails or gets suspended they get a nice pay off. When a criminal is facing charges for theft for a bottle of Whiskey they go to court all we all have to pay the costs which are 100's times the cost of the loss. This is called justice and the hope is it prevents others. When a senior member of a coucil is a suspect of wrong doing YOU let them off the hook and pay a fortune to their pension fund and they walk away. Is this justice? Will it encourage others not to follow? If I protest and don't pay my council tax I will go to court and if I still do not pay I will eventually go to prison. What message are you sending out to the people who pay the coucil tax? One rule for us and one rule for you!! Not justice at all. you have set a precedent for all others in senior positions and it is totally crass and wrong in every way possible. Shame on you all. WirralAl

11:08am Thu 4 Oct 12

PeteSheff says...

WirralAl says...
10:57am Thu 4 Oct 12

'Shame on you all.'

I think the idea of public servant is being missed by WBC.

I agree and would advise everyone in agreement to post a similar statement.
WirralAl says... 10:57am Thu 4 Oct 12 'Shame on you all.' I think the idea of public servant is being missed by WBC. I agree and would advise everyone in agreement to post a similar statement. PeteSheff

11:10am Thu 4 Oct 12

ArdalMcFardle says...

This is what your taxes go on folks, protecting the incompetent, hiding wrongdoing and rewarding failure . In public life if you reach a certain level and are in the right clique you are pretty much untouchable

I have absolutely no confidence in Burgess, he's another SOLACE drone and as we know they look after their own
This is what your taxes go on folks, protecting the incompetent, hiding wrongdoing and rewarding failure . In public life if you reach a certain level and are in the right clique you are pretty much untouchable I have absolutely no confidence in Burgess, he's another SOLACE drone and as we know they look after their own ArdalMcFardle

11:13am Thu 4 Oct 12

Ben Beaconsfield says...

An absolute scandal.

Where's the accountability in this?

"Not be in the public interest" to enter into a drawn out legal process ?

One law for this man, another law for Burglar Bill or Mugger Murphy?

This now convinces me that some senior councillors are using this process as a cover-up for their own neglectful culpability.

Shame on them.
An absolute scandal. Where's the accountability in this? "Not be in the public interest" to enter into a drawn out legal process ? One law for this man, another law for Burglar Bill or Mugger Murphy? This now convinces me that some senior councillors are using this process as a cover-up for their own neglectful culpability. Shame on them. Ben Beaconsfield

11:16am Thu 4 Oct 12

Cheesy Peas says...

So let's do some sums.

Since the Adult Social Services and Highways departmental whistleblowing scandals have arisen, the senior officers to leave with their silver-plated pensions topped up now are:

Steve Maddox, former chief executive

Jim Wilkie, former chief executive

Ian Coleman, former acting chief executive and director of finance

Kevin Miller, former director of adult social services

John Webb, former director of adult social services

Howard Cooper, former acting director of adult social services

Plus the two senior DASS managers who walked away with their cheques and compromise agreements in January 24 hours before the damning Klonowski report was part-published.

And now for the number of ANY council employees, senior or otherwise, to be thus far held accountable for any of these scandals?

NONE.

The abnormal Wirral Council races on at full pace. "Moving forward" - and never, ever, dealing with the issues.

Burgess is clearly the stooge the old guard were after.
So let's do some sums. Since the Adult Social Services and Highways departmental whistleblowing scandals have arisen, the senior officers to leave with their silver-plated pensions topped up now are: Steve Maddox, former chief executive Jim Wilkie, former chief executive Ian Coleman, former acting chief executive and director of finance Kevin Miller, former director of adult social services John Webb, former director of adult social services Howard Cooper, former acting director of adult social services Plus the two senior DASS managers who walked away with their cheques and compromise agreements in January 24 hours before the damning Klonowski report was part-published. And now for the number of ANY council employees, senior or otherwise, to be thus far held accountable for any of these scandals? NONE. The abnormal Wirral Council races on at full pace. "Moving forward" - and never, ever, dealing with the issues. Burgess is clearly the stooge the old guard were after. Cheesy Peas

11:25am Thu 4 Oct 12

Ben Beaconsfield says...

BREAKING NEWS:

Local councillors release joint all-party statement saying:

"All this happened on our watch. We humbly apologise to the voters of Wirral for failing in our duty to scrutinise the activities of senior council officials or to hold them to account."

"As a result of our collective failure, we have decided not to seek re-election, in order to make way for others who might place greater importance on scrutiny/accountabil
ity and less on party political dogma/self-promotion
."


MORE BREAKING NEWS:

Pigs spotted flying over Wallasey Town Hall.
BREAKING NEWS: Local councillors release joint all-party statement saying: "All this happened on our watch. We humbly apologise to the voters of Wirral for failing in our duty to scrutinise the activities of senior council officials or to hold them to account." "As a result of our collective failure, we have decided not to seek re-election, in order to make way for others who might place greater importance on scrutiny/accountabil ity and less on party political dogma/self-promotion ." MORE BREAKING NEWS: Pigs spotted flying over Wallasey Town Hall. Ben Beaconsfield

11:51am Thu 4 Oct 12

Cheesy Peas says...

This is all about that most corrosive of aspects to modern public services - the unstoppable rise of people employed on vast salaries to steer an organisation's "reputation management".

If council leader Phil Davies had any teeth he'd haul Burgess back from his holiday - taken after barely warming his seat - and ask him what the hell is going on.

But no.

"Let's just carry on as we were, Klonowski notwithstanding. Discipline no one. Just sign the cheques instead. So much easier. And "reputations" intact. Phew. We've sort of got away it until next time."

Note the dearth of comment from not a single one of our elected representatives, too - you are all an absolute disgrace.
This is all about that most corrosive of aspects to modern public services - the unstoppable rise of people employed on vast salaries to steer an organisation's "reputation management". If council leader Phil Davies had any teeth he'd haul Burgess back from his holiday - taken after barely warming his seat - and ask him what the hell is going on. But no. "Let's just carry on as we were, Klonowski notwithstanding. Discipline no one. Just sign the cheques instead. So much easier. And "reputations" intact. Phew. We've sort of got away it until next time." Note the dearth of comment from not a single one of our elected representatives, too - you are all an absolute disgrace. Cheesy Peas

12:06pm Thu 4 Oct 12

Ben Beaconsfield says...

Cheesy Peas wrote:
This is all about that most corrosive of aspects to modern public services - the unstoppable rise of people employed on vast salaries to steer an organisation's "reputation management".

If council leader Phil Davies had any teeth he'd haul Burgess back from his holiday - taken after barely warming his seat - and ask him what the hell is going on.

But no.

"Let's just carry on as we were, Klonowski notwithstanding. Discipline no one. Just sign the cheques instead. So much easier. And "reputations" intact. Phew. We've sort of got away it until next time."

Note the dearth of comment from not a single one of our elected representatives, too - you are all an absolute disgrace.
Hear hear. Spot on again, Cheesy Peas.

"We've sort of got away with it. Trebles all round."

Funny, isn't it, how local politicians can go quiet when they want to be, yet very vociferous at other (election) times.

Example: Jeff Green - last posting on his website was 22nd May 2012

Example: Chris Blakeley: last posting on his website was 27th July (though he did manage to give us a running commentary on Twitter about his holiday on the Costa del Sol and subsequently played the role of a food critic in relation to a popular Wirral pub)

Example: Ian Lewis - ex councillor, and a party publicist of breathtaking proportions, who, since he lost his seat has taken the unprecedented move of closing his website down to the general public.

As it happens, these are all Tories. That's because the local Conservatives are past masters at spin. Remember their election slogan: "All the year round, not just at election time"? Another gimmick for the dustbin?

Come on, Cllrs Green and Blakeley - and, for that matter Cllrs Davies and Foulkes and Cllr Harney - let's be hearing from you on this matter. Don't be shy - pretend there's an election on....
[quote][p][bold]Cheesy Peas[/bold] wrote: This is all about that most corrosive of aspects to modern public services - the unstoppable rise of people employed on vast salaries to steer an organisation's "reputation management". If council leader Phil Davies had any teeth he'd haul Burgess back from his holiday - taken after barely warming his seat - and ask him what the hell is going on. But no. "Let's just carry on as we were, Klonowski notwithstanding. Discipline no one. Just sign the cheques instead. So much easier. And "reputations" intact. Phew. We've sort of got away it until next time." Note the dearth of comment from not a single one of our elected representatives, too - you are all an absolute disgrace.[/p][/quote]Hear hear. Spot on again, Cheesy Peas. "We've sort of got away with it. Trebles all round." Funny, isn't it, how local politicians can go quiet when they want to be, yet very vociferous at other (election) times. Example: Jeff Green - last posting on his website was 22nd May 2012 Example: Chris Blakeley: last posting on his website was 27th July (though he did manage to give us a running commentary on Twitter about his holiday on the Costa del Sol and subsequently played the role of a food critic in relation to a popular Wirral pub) Example: Ian Lewis - ex councillor, and a party publicist of breathtaking proportions, who, since he lost his seat has taken the unprecedented move of closing his website down to the general public. As it happens, these are all Tories. That's because the local Conservatives are past masters at spin. Remember their election slogan: "All the year round, not just at election time"? Another gimmick for the dustbin? Come on, Cllrs Green and Blakeley - and, for that matter Cllrs Davies and Foulkes and Cllr Harney - let's be hearing from you on this matter. Don't be shy - pretend there's an election on.... Ben Beaconsfield

12:07pm Thu 4 Oct 12

johnbrace says...

Well that's not entirely unexpected, but if Wirral Council, instead of dealing with (the majority of this) behind closed doors, dealt with it openly at public meetings with the press and public present, there wouldn't be so many conspiracy theories floating around in this long drawn out process.

The truth of the matter is that below the Chief Officers in each department were layers of middle management, (which if my reading of the AKA report is correct and the earlier corporate governance report which described cultural issues across the authority), is in that murky area where nobody really knows much about what's going on apart from the staff directly involved, and seems to where a lot of the more recent screw-ups originate. Hence the desire for the three super-directors, who are either going to end up being the three musketeers, the three amigos or the three stooges.

I'm not saying Chief Officers shouldn't get blamed for failings in their department, but obviously in this case Wirral Council seem to be concerned about their dirty laundry being aired in public in court in the full glare of the public and press (who have absolute protection from lawsuits when making contemporary reports on court cases). What's changed eh?
Well that's not entirely unexpected, but if Wirral Council, instead of dealing with (the majority of this) behind closed doors, dealt with it openly at public meetings with the press and public present, there wouldn't be so many conspiracy theories floating around in this long drawn out process. The truth of the matter is that below the Chief Officers in each department were layers of middle management, (which if my reading of the AKA report is correct and the earlier corporate governance report which described cultural issues across the authority), is in that murky area where nobody really knows much about what's going on apart from the staff directly involved, and seems to where a lot of the more recent screw-ups originate. Hence the desire for the three super-directors, who are either going to end up being the three musketeers, the three amigos or the three stooges. I'm not saying Chief Officers shouldn't get blamed for failings in their department, but obviously in this case Wirral Council seem to be concerned about their dirty laundry being aired in public in court in the full glare of the public and press (who have absolute protection from lawsuits when making contemporary reports on court cases). What's changed eh? johnbrace

12:10pm Thu 4 Oct 12

WDav87 says...

I've always been taught to vote in every election. However in the case of any future WBC elections, how strong a message would a non-existant turnout be?

They're all scum.
I've always been taught to vote in every election. However in the case of any future WBC elections, how strong a message would a non-existant turnout be? They're all scum. WDav87

12:18pm Thu 4 Oct 12

Inniebear says...

@WDav87 - We HAVE a none existant turnout. That's why the same old faces, and same old parties keep being returned.
@WDav87 - We HAVE a none existant turnout. That's why the same old faces, and same old parties keep being returned. Inniebear

12:22pm Thu 4 Oct 12

Spiffy says...

WDav87 wrote:
I've always been taught to vote in every election. However in the case of any future WBC elections, how strong a message would a non-existant turnout be?

They're all scum.
Nooooo....you MUST vote. Far too many people who lived and died way before many of us were even born fought for The Right to a precious vote.
...
It is the ONLY chance you have to make your feelings about what your councillors or politicians do on your behalf absolutely clear with any chance of them taking any notice.
...
It's simple enough to just stick your cross in a different box each time. Just do your research on each candidate....google is your friend and there's never been a time before when we have had so much access to so much information no matter how hard they try to keep it from us.
...
And please...if you have them....teach your children to act accordingly to at least try and safeguard their own futures.
...
Knowledge is power...and so is that one little cross on a bit of paper....use it !!!
...
Lecture over...sorry :)
[quote][p][bold]WDav87[/bold] wrote: I've always been taught to vote in every election. However in the case of any future WBC elections, how strong a message would a non-existant turnout be? They're all scum.[/p][/quote]Nooooo....you MUST vote. Far too many people who lived and died way before many of us were even born fought for The Right to a precious vote. ... It is the ONLY chance you have to make your feelings about what your councillors or politicians do on your behalf absolutely clear with any chance of them taking any notice. ... It's simple enough to just stick your cross in a different box each time. Just do your research on each candidate....google is your friend and there's never been a time before when we have had so much access to so much information no matter how hard they try to keep it from us. ... And please...if you have them....teach your children to act accordingly to at least try and safeguard their own futures. ... Knowledge is power...and so is that one little cross on a bit of paper....use it !!! ... Lecture over...sorry :) Spiffy

12:26pm Thu 4 Oct 12

Ben Beaconsfield says...

Spiffy: This is the second time in five minutes - spot on again.
Spiffy: This is the second time in five minutes - spot on again. Ben Beaconsfield

12:38pm Thu 4 Oct 12

Spiffy says...

Ben Beaconsfield wrote:
Spiffy: This is the second time in five minutes - spot on again.
Shush now...you're going to ruin my reputation... ;)
[quote][p][bold]Ben Beaconsfield[/bold] wrote: Spiffy: This is the second time in five minutes - spot on again.[/p][/quote]Shush now...you're going to ruin my reputation... ;) Spiffy

12:50pm Thu 4 Oct 12

No.9 says...

ArdalMcFardle wrote:
This is what your taxes go on folks, protecting the incompetent, hiding wrongdoing and rewarding failure . In public life if you reach a certain level and are in the right clique you are pretty much untouchable

I have absolutely no confidence in Burgess, he's another SOLACE drone and as we know they look after their own
Spot on! Always thought Michael Frater was damage limitation and now this! Solace recommend and advise councils on who to employ at senior level as well as how much they should be paid. Job-hoppers in this clique do very nicely indeed. It would be great if we could happily pay them in return for a job well done and refuse to pay when they don't deliver (as is normal in commerce) rather than them demanding our money under threat then squandering it as they please.
[quote][p][bold]ArdalMcFardle[/bold] wrote: This is what your taxes go on folks, protecting the incompetent, hiding wrongdoing and rewarding failure . In public life if you reach a certain level and are in the right clique you are pretty much untouchable I have absolutely no confidence in Burgess, he's another SOLACE drone and as we know they look after their own[/p][/quote]Spot on! Always thought Michael Frater was damage limitation and now this! Solace recommend and advise councils on who to employ at senior level as well as how much they should be paid. Job-hoppers in this clique do very nicely indeed. It would be great if we could happily pay them in return for a job well done and refuse to pay when they don't deliver (as is normal in commerce) rather than them demanding our money under threat then squandering it as they please. No.9

12:52pm Thu 4 Oct 12

unbeleivable says...

Aww dont worry about him, I beleive he is on the board at NAAPS in Liverpool,so he has another job or so I am led to beleive.
Aww dont worry about him, I beleive he is on the board at NAAPS in Liverpool,so he has another job or so I am led to beleive. unbeleivable

1:23pm Thu 4 Oct 12

Cheesy Peas says...

Phil Davies finally pipes up and immediately speaks rubbish.

Why would it cost £1m - or even £2m - in legal costs against one man?

He's not an oligarch, he's a bl00dy civil servant!

The council loves throwing these barmy figures around without setting out how they would come about.

Yet more muddying of the waters to keep the plebs at bay.

Is there anyone in Brighton Street capable of giving a straight answer?
Phil Davies finally pipes up and immediately speaks rubbish. Why would it cost £1m - or even £2m - in legal costs against one man? He's not an oligarch, he's a bl00dy civil servant! The council loves throwing these barmy figures around without setting out how they would come about. Yet more muddying of the waters to keep the plebs at bay. Is there anyone in Brighton Street capable of giving a straight answer? Cheesy Peas

1:24pm Thu 4 Oct 12

hobroW says...

There have been early retirements on another hitherto secret whistleblowing case about the failures of internal audit

The non-production of a report for one full year and its being officially termed "unfit for purpose" see liverpool daily post this week

the case has been dragging on since april 2011 Internal audit receiving it in September 2011.

Uncharitable persons might wonder why a BIG four firm of accountants must now expensively cover the same ground to report perhaps in a further 3 months
There have been early retirements on another hitherto secret whistleblowing case about the failures of internal audit The non-production of a report for one full year and its being officially termed "unfit for purpose" see liverpool daily post this week the case has been dragging on since april 2011 Internal audit receiving it in September 2011. Uncharitable persons might wonder why a BIG four firm of accountants must now expensively cover the same ground to report perhaps in a further 3 months hobroW

1:35pm Thu 4 Oct 12

PaulCa says...

Process completed behind closed doors? Check.

Involvement in any abuse swept under the carpet? Check.

Clean bills of health all round? Check.

"Data Privacy" protected? Check.

Future job prospects protected? Check.

Potential abuser AND issuing body nicely gagged within a legal document that can only be prised open by the High Court or by Judicial Review? Check.

Data and Information governance people briefed and on message? Check.

Public interest served? Er... of course!

...................T
hat'll do nicely.
Process completed behind closed doors? Check. Involvement in any abuse swept under the carpet? Check. Clean bills of health all round? Check. "Data Privacy" protected? Check. Future job prospects protected? Check. Potential abuser AND issuing body nicely gagged within a legal document that can only be prised open by the High Court or by Judicial Review? Check. Data and Information governance people briefed and on message? Check. Public interest served? Er... of course! ...................T hat'll do nicely. PaulCa

3:20pm Thu 4 Oct 12

Cheesy Peas says...

@hobroW

Had a look for that story but can't find it?

Can you post a link?
@hobroW Had a look for that story but can't find it? Can you post a link? Cheesy Peas

3:58pm Thu 4 Oct 12

Willow Sherbet says...

Burgess

This is not the point. If the man has done wrong then he should not get a pat on the back then sent on his way with 82.5k

What planet are you on sham Gamekeeper?

MPs Get the Government in NOW!

Sherbet
Burgess This is not the point. If the man has done wrong then he should not get a pat on the back then sent on his way with 82.5k What planet are you on sham Gamekeeper? MPs Get the Government in NOW! Sherbet Willow Sherbet

4:14pm Thu 4 Oct 12

BillyBradford says...

This is old news I leaked this last week, comment removed! Freedom of speech has now gone!
This is old news I leaked this last week, comment removed! Freedom of speech has now gone! BillyBradford

4:26pm Thu 4 Oct 12

hobroW says...

there may not be a link as the July 2012 link disappeared. on Daily post website place Nigel hobro in search box and up soon come at least the April 2012 report by Liam murphy
there may not be a link as the July 2012 link disappeared. on Daily post website place Nigel hobro in search box and up soon come at least the April 2012 report by Liam murphy hobroW

4:27pm Thu 4 Oct 12

community counts says...

Which Cllrs made this decision and did any vote against it?
Which Cllrs made this decision and did any vote against it? community counts

4:33pm Thu 4 Oct 12

hobroW says...

one should think about the wasted year of a senior internal audit officer; the in sult to,and wastage of time by two whistleblowers; and the pursuant cost of at least £50K by Deloittes say to take a further 3 months to finalise.
All the time the internal audit claimed that the report was in draft form ; that it could not be released until the "right to Reply" of parties named was given, that it was thorough and exhaustive....dismis
sed as "unfit for purpose by the new interim director of finance, Peter Timmins.in September 2012
one should think about the wasted year of a senior internal audit officer; the in sult to,and wastage of time by two whistleblowers; and the pursuant cost of at least £50K by Deloittes say to take a further 3 months to finalise. All the time the internal audit claimed that the report was in draft form ; that it could not be released until the "right to Reply" of parties named was given, that it was thorough and exhaustive....dismis sed as "unfit for purpose by the new interim director of finance, Peter Timmins.in September 2012 hobroW

4:47pm Thu 4 Oct 12

johnhardaker says...

Cheesy John & Paul ca as well as all you other guys it looks as though the lunatics taken over the asylum in Brighton street & the only thing you cant get away with "yet" is murder but the town hall bods are working on it no doubt We are supposed to put the running of the council in responsible hands & what do we get a bunch of self seeking,arrogant clowns wasting our money on giant payoffs to people who have abused the sick AKA
report,& made a dogs breakfast of virtually everything they get their hands on, They are a disgrace & should be replaced by commissioners sooner rather than later in the hope that this lamentable council can be sorted once & for all,I am going to send a copy of this article to the local government ombudsman in the hope that this and other matters may be brought to light,end of rant.
Cheesy John & Paul ca as well as all you other guys it looks as though the lunatics taken over the asylum in Brighton street & the only thing you cant get away with "yet" is murder but the town hall bods are working on it no doubt We are supposed to put the running of the council in responsible hands & what do we get a bunch of self seeking,arrogant clowns wasting our money on giant payoffs to people who have abused the sick AKA report,& made a dogs breakfast of virtually everything they get their hands on, They are a disgrace & should be replaced by commissioners sooner rather than later in the hope that this lamentable council can be sorted once & for all,I am going to send a copy of this article to the local government ombudsman in the hope that this and other matters may be brought to light,end of rant. johnhardaker

5:00pm Thu 4 Oct 12

Cheesy Peas says...

@johnhardaker - Good for you.

Here's how other councils who've seriously c0cked up respond to criticism:

http://www.itv.com/n
ews/2012-10-04/damni
ng-report-forces-chi
ldrens-services-boss
-to-quit/

But on Wirral, we pay them off, trot out phrases like "moving forward", pretend we would have had to spend millions on a two year legal battle (yeah, right), and then dash to the next disaster.

I'll say it again: It's the "reputation management" obsession than runs through WBC like a stick of rock.

And it's damned Uggly, too.
@johnhardaker - Good for you. Here's how other councils who've seriously c0cked up respond to criticism: http://www.itv.com/n ews/2012-10-04/damni ng-report-forces-chi ldrens-services-boss -to-quit/ But on Wirral, we pay them off, trot out phrases like "moving forward", pretend we would have had to spend millions on a two year legal battle (yeah, right), and then dash to the next disaster. I'll say it again: It's the "reputation management" obsession than runs through WBC like a stick of rock. And it's damned Uggly, too. Cheesy Peas

5:04pm Thu 4 Oct 12

Ben Beaconsfield says...

community counts wrote:
Which Cllrs made this decision and did any vote against it?
The following councillors indicated that they were planning to attend the meeting - the rest is TOP SECRET:-

Councillors Paul Doughty,George Davies,Phil Davies,Jeff Green, Mark Johnston, Adrian Jones, PeterKearney,
Ann McLachlan and Lesley Rennie.
[quote][p][bold]community counts[/bold] wrote: Which Cllrs made this decision and did any vote against it?[/p][/quote]The following councillors indicated that they were planning to attend the meeting - the rest is TOP SECRET:- Councillors Paul Doughty,George Davies,Phil Davies,Jeff Green, Mark Johnston, Adrian Jones, PeterKearney, Ann McLachlan and Lesley Rennie. Ben Beaconsfield

5:47pm Thu 4 Oct 12

johnhardaker says...

Cheesey have just had an auto acknowledgement from the LGO local government ombudsman who has stated that they will reply in 5 days I hope they are not wirral council days as i could be waiting years.I am also thinking of sending the article to private eye to see if it qualifies for a rotten borough again.
Cheesey have just had an auto acknowledgement from the LGO local government ombudsman who has stated that they will reply in 5 days I hope they are not wirral council days as i could be waiting years.I am also thinking of sending the article to private eye to see if it qualifies for a rotten borough again. johnhardaker

5:58pm Thu 4 Oct 12

Cheesy Peas says...

Private Eye have been tweeting the link to this story this afternoon!
Private Eye have been tweeting the link to this story this afternoon! Cheesy Peas

6:00pm Thu 4 Oct 12

JADEE1 says...

this magnificent pay off would,nt happen in the private sector,,were a so called profesional, was proved totally, incompetent,& at fault,!! unless he was employed by Lloyds TSB bank // halifax ,or any one else in the banking industry,!! so why does the TAX PAYER once again have to pay so much to these incompetent hasbeens,!! OUT OF TAX PAYERS MONEY,THE AMOUNT IS STAGERING,,& i would say bordering on illegal ,,& morally corrupt,WHY THE BIG SECERET MEETINGS IN THE FIRST PLACE,????
this magnificent pay off would,nt happen in the private sector,,were a so called profesional, was proved totally, incompetent,& at fault,!! unless he was employed by Lloyds TSB bank // halifax ,or any one else in the banking industry,!! so why does the TAX PAYER once again have to pay so much to these incompetent hasbeens,!! OUT OF TAX PAYERS MONEY,THE AMOUNT IS STAGERING,,& i would say bordering on illegal ,,& morally corrupt,WHY THE BIG SECERET MEETINGS IN THE FIRST PLACE,???? JADEE1

6:32pm Thu 4 Oct 12

water1lily says...

Wirral Borough Council have no credibility whatsoever their officers are the most sucessful escapeologists since Houdini.
The message is that whatever you do however corrupt there will be no accountability on Wirral so do what you like .
No matter who is appointed there is no change in this most Rotten of Boroughs.The message is clear that things will never get better.
There is no one with the backbone to take this deceitful self serving shower on, I despair.
Wirral Borough Council have no credibility whatsoever their officers are the most sucessful escapeologists since Houdini. The message is that whatever you do however corrupt there will be no accountability on Wirral so do what you like . No matter who is appointed there is no change in this most Rotten of Boroughs.The message is clear that things will never get better. There is no one with the backbone to take this deceitful self serving shower on, I despair. water1lily

7:12pm Thu 4 Oct 12

DickieBird1939 says...

WBC have always wasted money, I am old enough to remember Oak & Eldon Gardens in Birkenhead being demolished before they were even paid for.

How convenient then for Mr Burgess to be away, when the only possible candidate to refute his claims of £17 million overspend being magically reduced..

I would like Phil Davies to let us know how much money has been salted away to pay off all the other suspended chief officers
WBC have always wasted money, I am old enough to remember Oak & Eldon Gardens in Birkenhead being demolished before they were even paid for. How convenient then for Mr Burgess to be away, when the only possible candidate to refute his claims of £17 million overspend being magically reduced.. I would like Phil Davies to let us know how much money has been salted away to pay off all the other suspended chief officers DickieBird1939

7:27pm Thu 4 Oct 12

hobroW says...

dont forget something wicked this way comes

a story of the concealment of incompetence and waste and the use of secrecy to frustrate justice


look in Daily Post for first glimmerings of light on this dark corner

search Nigel hobro on Liverpool Daily Post website
dont forget something wicked this way comes a story of the concealment of incompetence and waste and the use of secrecy to frustrate justice look in Daily Post for first glimmerings of light on this dark corner search Nigel hobro on Liverpool Daily Post website hobroW

8:14pm Thu 4 Oct 12

bickyboy says...

Risky analogy, MX, though I know what you're getting at.

I wouldn't like to work at WBC right now and be trying to do a PROPER job: the morale of the average "bog standard" council worker as they watch the corrupt and downright incompetent heading for the hills with their pockets bulging with loot, and see the reputation of the organisation (sic) they work for being dragged through the mud, again and again must be sub-rock- bottom.

It's no longer appropriate to compare these people with pigs feeding at a trough, because such a comparison has now become a gross insult to our porcine friends.
Risky analogy, MX, though I know what you're getting at. I wouldn't like to work at WBC right now and be trying to do a PROPER job: the morale of the average "bog standard" council worker as they watch the corrupt and downright incompetent heading for the hills with their pockets bulging with loot, and see the reputation of the organisation (sic) they work for being dragged through the mud, again and again must be sub-rock- bottom. It's no longer appropriate to compare these people with pigs feeding at a trough, because such a comparison has now become a gross insult to our porcine friends. bickyboy

8:16pm Thu 4 Oct 12

WirralAl says...

Complete and utter disgrace. Still cannot believe this crass legal theft is allowed. Still waiting to be asked how the council can save money? Sack the lot. The are all greedy leeches that only look after themselves and show no accountability or self respect.
Complete and utter disgrace. Still cannot believe this crass legal theft is allowed. Still waiting to be asked how the council can save money? Sack the lot. The are all greedy leeches that only look after themselves and show no accountability or self respect. WirralAl

8:29pm Thu 4 Oct 12

Jimrob says...

Right Frank.

Over to you then and Plan A.

Call in the Serious Fraud Officers and whilst they are at it, get them to take a look at the New CEO of Wirral too.

Seems that he is ABSOLUTELY NO DIFFERENT FROM HIS PREDECESSOR

The whole lot of em should be investigated now and as usual Frank, they are laughing in YOUR face, not just ours. Time to show us if you are a man or a mouse.

We await your next move Frank. What's it to be, are you one of THEM or one of US????
Right Frank. Over to you then and Plan A. Call in the Serious Fraud Officers and whilst they are at it, get them to take a look at the New CEO of Wirral too. Seems that he is ABSOLUTELY NO DIFFERENT FROM HIS PREDECESSOR The whole lot of em should be investigated now and as usual Frank, they are laughing in YOUR face, not just ours. Time to show us if you are a man or a mouse. We await your next move Frank. What's it to be, are you one of THEM or one of US???? Jimrob

9:21pm Thu 4 Oct 12

DickieBird1939 says...

hobroW wrote:
dont forget something wicked this way comes

a story of the concealment of incompetence and waste and the use of secrecy to frustrate justice


look in Daily Post for first glimmerings of light on this dark corner

search Nigel hobro on Liverpool Daily Post website
You better look quickly, because turning off streetlights at night is one of the money saving schemes
[quote][p][bold]hobroW[/bold] wrote: dont forget something wicked this way comes a story of the concealment of incompetence and waste and the use of secrecy to frustrate justice look in Daily Post for first glimmerings of light on this dark corner search Nigel hobro on Liverpool Daily Post website[/p][/quote]You better look quickly, because turning off streetlights at night is one of the money saving schemes DickieBird1939

9:47pm Thu 4 Oct 12

reliant22 says...

Commendable.
Every single comment.
However, my observation: Who reads and notes your comments?
Is there anyone capable of addressing the issues you, quite rightly, comment on.
Unfortunately, we, as taxpayers, do not seem to have any power over our elected representatives once they enter the Town Hall.
So. once again, I say, PLEASE, those people who voted at the last LG election and enabled Labour full control, learn a lesson from all of the `secret meetings, looking after their own and generally stuffing up, don`t make the same mistake again.
Comments on these pages can not change anything, voting can.
Commendable. Every single comment. However, my observation: Who reads and notes your comments? Is there anyone capable of addressing the issues you, quite rightly, comment on. Unfortunately, we, as taxpayers, do not seem to have any power over our elected representatives once they enter the Town Hall. So. once again, I say, PLEASE, those people who voted at the last LG election and enabled Labour full control, learn a lesson from all of the `secret meetings, looking after their own and generally stuffing up, don`t make the same mistake again. Comments on these pages can not change anything, voting can. reliant22

9:49pm Thu 4 Oct 12

Willow Sherbet says...

To the Wirral MPs. Get the Government in now!

What is next for the other three? Another £500,000-£1,000,00
0+

Cuts next year! What a joke!

Bloggers do you agree? Vote here!

Sherbet.
To the Wirral MPs. Get the Government in now! What is next for the other three? Another £500,000-£1,000,00 0+ Cuts next year! What a joke! Bloggers do you agree? Vote here! Sherbet. Willow Sherbet

10:01pm Thu 4 Oct 12

ArdalMcFardle says...

Maybe we should withhold our council tax... not refuse to pay it just withhold until the commissioners are brought in, these absolute jokers are frittering our money away on handsome payoffs for the Directors club

However over at SOLACE it's Cuban cigars all round as they giggle into their champagne flutes.

Way to go Graham, what a fantastic start you've made! Enjoy your holiday lets hope the Karma police will be giving you a call very soon
Maybe we should withhold our council tax... not refuse to pay it just withhold until the commissioners are brought in, these absolute jokers are frittering our money away on handsome payoffs for the Directors club However over at SOLACE it's Cuban cigars all round as they giggle into their champagne flutes. Way to go Graham, what a fantastic start you've made! Enjoy your holiday lets hope the Karma police will be giving you a call very soon ArdalMcFardle

10:42pm Thu 4 Oct 12

LocaLGovwatcher says...

Ben Beaconsfield wrote:
An absolute scandal.

Where's the accountability in this?

"Not be in the public interest" to enter into a drawn out legal process ?

One law for this man, another law for Burglar Bill or Mugger Murphy?

This now convinces me that some senior councillors are using this process as a cover-up for their own neglectful culpability.

Shame on them.
Ben, Are you still keeping an open mind on the new CEO?
[quote][p][bold]Ben Beaconsfield[/bold] wrote: An absolute scandal. Where's the accountability in this? "Not be in the public interest" to enter into a drawn out legal process ? One law for this man, another law for Burglar Bill or Mugger Murphy? This now convinces me that some senior councillors are using this process as a cover-up for their own neglectful culpability. Shame on them.[/p][/quote]Ben, Are you still keeping an open mind on the new CEO? LocaLGovwatcher

10:51pm Thu 4 Oct 12

PeteSheff says...

How much will Bill Norman and Dave green be getting?

What happened about first comes the truth and then comes the justice?

Truth?

We are moving on.... nothing to see here.. did something happen in the past? I wouldn't know.. you need to move on.

Justice?

To whom? They have moved on... and they are gagged from saying why.
How much will Bill Norman and Dave green be getting? What happened about first comes the truth and then comes the justice? Truth? We are moving on.... nothing to see here.. did something happen in the past? I wouldn't know.. you need to move on. Justice? To whom? They have moved on... and they are gagged from saying why. PeteSheff

5:10am Fri 5 Oct 12

Ben Beaconsfield says...

Local Govwatcher:

Regardless of what I think about the new Chief Executive, HE IS NOT IN CHARGE. The councillors - who pick up nearly one million pounds a year between them in allowances and expenses - are ultimately responsible for what happens in Wirral.

The CE can propose something - councillors have the power to veto it.

In fact, in an ideal world, the CE need not be making the running. Councillors could be saying: this is what we want to do, this is the direction in which we want to take Wirral, now go away and come back with proposals to fulfil our ambitions.

At the moment it seems the tail is wagging the dog. Perhaps the dog is too lazy and too fat to be bothered by this. Alternatively, the dog could be frightened of its own tail - something Freud would have a lot to say about.
Local Govwatcher: Regardless of what I think about the new Chief Executive, HE IS NOT IN CHARGE. The councillors - who pick up nearly one million pounds a year between them in allowances and expenses - are ultimately responsible for what happens in Wirral. The CE can propose something - councillors have the power to veto it. In fact, in an ideal world, the CE need not be making the running. Councillors could be saying: this is what we want to do, this is the direction in which we want to take Wirral, now go away and come back with proposals to fulfil our ambitions. At the moment it seems the tail is wagging the dog. Perhaps the dog is too lazy and too fat to be bothered by this. Alternatively, the dog could be frightened of its own tail - something Freud would have a lot to say about. Ben Beaconsfield

6:35am Fri 5 Oct 12

Willow Sherbet says...

The bottom draw has opened and the dirt has come out. Now have 82.5k and on your way! The Wirral Way!

Lots more £ to come!

Puppet Gamekeeper.
The bottom draw has opened and the dirt has come out. Now have 82.5k and on your way! The Wirral Way! Lots more £ to come! Puppet Gamekeeper. Willow Sherbet

10:05am Fri 5 Oct 12

Ben Beaconsfield says...

We seem to speak a different language in Wirral, judging by the content of this thread. Perhaps it might be a good idea to supply the new super-directors with a lexicon containing some commonly-used words from the above postings. How about:-

"Abuse, accountability, apologise, arrogant, asylum, blatant, bog-standard, clouded, concealment, compromise, conspiracy, convenient, corrosive, corrupt, cowardly, crass, crazy, credibility, culpability, damage, demented, dirt, discriminatory, diseased, disgrace, disrepute, enigma, expose, failed, fraud, fritting, gagged, gimmick, has-beens, illegally, inability, incompetent, intervention ,insular, investigate, jokers, justice, lamentable, law-suit, leeches, loot, lunatics, malfeasance, misinformation mud, murder, murky, mystery, neglectful, old-guard, openness, poorest, porcine, pretend, rubbish, rotten, sacked, scandal, scrutiny, secret, self-promotion, self-respect, self-seeking, sham, shame, stooge, sub-rock-bottom, suspended, theft, trough, truth, untouchable, vulnerable, wasted, whistle-blowing, wrong-doing."

(I know I should get out more but, to be fair, it is pouring down outside.)
We seem to speak a different language in Wirral, judging by the content of this thread. Perhaps it might be a good idea to supply the new super-directors with a lexicon containing some commonly-used words from the above postings. How about:- "Abuse, accountability, apologise, arrogant, asylum, blatant, bog-standard, clouded, concealment, compromise, conspiracy, convenient, corrosive, corrupt, cowardly, crass, crazy, credibility, culpability, damage, demented, dirt, discriminatory, diseased, disgrace, disrepute, enigma, expose, failed, fraud, fritting, gagged, gimmick, has-beens, illegally, inability, incompetent, intervention ,insular, investigate, jokers, justice, lamentable, law-suit, leeches, loot, lunatics, malfeasance, misinformation mud, murder, murky, mystery, neglectful, old-guard, openness, poorest, porcine, pretend, rubbish, rotten, sacked, scandal, scrutiny, secret, self-promotion, self-respect, self-seeking, sham, shame, stooge, sub-rock-bottom, suspended, theft, trough, truth, untouchable, vulnerable, wasted, whistle-blowing, wrong-doing." (I know I should get out more but, to be fair, it is pouring down outside.) Ben Beaconsfield

11:09am Fri 5 Oct 12

johnbrace says...

A brief haiku on the subject

The Finance Man left,
Taking the secrets with him,
No one left to say

Which politicians,
are to blame. Just like the West
Coast Main Line contract.
A brief haiku on the subject The Finance Man left, Taking the secrets with him, No one left to say Which politicians, are to blame. Just like the West Coast Main Line contract. johnbrace

11:46am Fri 5 Oct 12

MX says...

Love the Lexicon Ben.
Expect a press release soon containing the following: " Action taken,behind us, coterminous corporate governance,due process,engagement,f
ramework,going forward,historical,i
nternal processes,joint working,knowledge base,lessons learned,moving forward,normalising,
openness,proactive,q
uantum,synergy,trust ,united ,validation, working together,x-ray transparency,zero cost option.
Love the Lexicon Ben. Expect a press release soon containing the following: " Action taken,behind us, coterminous corporate governance,due process,engagement,f ramework,going forward,historical,i nternal processes,joint working,knowledge base,lessons learned,moving forward,normalising, openness,proactive,q uantum,synergy,trust ,united ,validation, working together,x-ray transparency,zero cost option. MX

12:13pm Fri 5 Oct 12

hobroW says...

Orwell 1984, got it wrong Newspeak is not a contraction of words, rather an inflation thereof
Orwell 1984, got it wrong Newspeak is not a contraction of words, rather an inflation thereof hobroW

12:18pm Fri 5 Oct 12

hobroW says...

John Milton Areopagitica 1643 for unlicensed printing

This is not the liberty we hope for, that no grievance ever should arise in the commonwealth. That in this world let no man expect. But when complaints are freely heard, deeply considered and SPEEDILY reformed, then is the utmost bound of civil liberty attained which wise men look for.

Judge WBC by the standards of this sage of the English revolution and see how far short WBC falls
John Milton Areopagitica 1643 for unlicensed printing This is not the liberty we hope for, that no grievance ever should arise in the commonwealth. That in this world let no man expect. But when complaints are freely heard, deeply considered and SPEEDILY reformed, then is the utmost bound of civil liberty attained which wise men look for. Judge WBC by the standards of this sage of the English revolution and see how far short WBC falls hobroW

3:47pm Fri 5 Oct 12

LocaLGovwatcher says...

Ben - Thanks for putting me straight.

Perhaps it is appropriate to commit all the councillors and officers to the Battersea Dogs Home. It would be a lot cheaper than paying them off as per the current practice.
Ben - Thanks for putting me straight. Perhaps it is appropriate to commit all the councillors and officers to the Battersea Dogs Home. It would be a lot cheaper than paying them off as per the current practice. LocaLGovwatcher

5:32pm Fri 5 Oct 12

Ben Beaconsfield says...

hobroW wrote:
John Milton Areopagitica 1643 for unlicensed printing

This is not the liberty we hope for, that no grievance ever should arise in the commonwealth. That in this world let no man expect. But when complaints are freely heard, deeply considered and SPEEDILY reformed, then is the utmost bound of civil liberty attained which wise men look for.

Judge WBC by the standards of this sage of the English revolution and see how far short WBC falls
I don't imagine Milton had secret Early Voluntary Retirement deals in mind when he penned those words. In fact, he was rather more in favour of Early (and final) Non-Voluntary Retirement in the case of Charles I.

Ironically, Milton was also a sort of spin-doctor for the New Commonwealth. He had a fancy title - something along the lines of Foreign Tongues Secretary, a sort of official state translator - but in actual fact he was also a leading propagandist for Cromwell.

Whatever that role involved, I'm sure he brought to it a greater degree of integrity than today's 'Masters of Spin'.
[quote][p][bold]hobroW[/bold] wrote: John Milton Areopagitica 1643 for unlicensed printing This is not the liberty we hope for, that no grievance ever should arise in the commonwealth. That in this world let no man expect. But when complaints are freely heard, deeply considered and SPEEDILY reformed, then is the utmost bound of civil liberty attained which wise men look for. Judge WBC by the standards of this sage of the English revolution and see how far short WBC falls[/p][/quote]I don't imagine Milton had secret Early Voluntary Retirement deals in mind when he penned those words. In fact, he was rather more in favour of Early (and final) Non-Voluntary Retirement in the case of Charles I. Ironically, Milton was also a sort of spin-doctor for the New Commonwealth. He had a fancy title - something along the lines of Foreign Tongues Secretary, a sort of official state translator - but in actual fact he was also a leading propagandist for Cromwell. Whatever that role involved, I'm sure he brought to it a greater degree of integrity than today's 'Masters of Spin'. Ben Beaconsfield

7:35pm Fri 5 Oct 12

ArdalMcFardle says...

BTW how much was Frater actually paid and to what end ? What did he do, what did he change ?
BTW how much was Frater actually paid and to what end ? What did he do, what did he change ? ArdalMcFardle

9:19pm Fri 5 Oct 12

PaulCa says...

By my estimate, Michael Frater earned approximately £75,000 for his stint of 3 day weeks at Wirral. If you divide £75,000 by £1,200, you arrive at the number of days worked, which is…. 62 and a half.

It’s a relief that he wasn’t taken on for a whole year, because this would have translated to an annual salary of approximately £313,200.

It’s also a pity he couldn’t respond to an email I sent to him in July and say, “This is nothing to do with me…. this is for the Council to address”

– maybe because this would have flown directly into the face of just about everything those big names in central government e.g. Grant Shapps, Paul Burstow have been shouting… that the LGA has been sent in to sort the place out !

And alas, the Wirral public won’t get any answers from the troubleshooter. Mr Frater has now long packed up and gone…
By my estimate, Michael Frater earned approximately £75,000 for his stint of 3 day weeks at Wirral. If you divide £75,000 by £1,200, you arrive at the number of days worked, which is…. 62 and a half. It’s a relief that he wasn’t taken on for a whole year, because this would have translated to an annual salary of approximately £313,200. It’s also a pity he couldn’t respond to an email I sent to him in July and say, “This is nothing to do with me…. this is for the Council to address” – maybe because this would have flown directly into the face of just about everything those big names in central government e.g. Grant Shapps, Paul Burstow have been shouting… that the LGA has been sent in to sort the place out ! And alas, the Wirral public won’t get any answers from the troubleshooter. Mr Frater has now long packed up and gone… PaulCa

12:27am Sat 6 Oct 12

council officer says...

bickyboy wrote:
Risky analogy, MX, though I know what you're getting at.

I wouldn't like to work at WBC right now and be trying to do a PROPER job: the morale of the average "bog standard" council worker as they watch the corrupt and downright incompetent heading for the hills with their pockets bulging with loot, and see the reputation of the organisation (sic) they work for being dragged through the mud, again and again must be sub-rock- bottom.

It's no longer appropriate to compare these people with pigs feeding at a trough, because such a comparison has now become a gross insult to our porcine friends.
Spot on Bickyboy!

For the first time in my life I dread going to work. I have always taken great pride in the job I do but working for this council is demoralising.

The worst part of it is working under senior officers who you have no respect for and who have no respect for you! Trying to do your best under these circumstances seriously attacks your mental health.

The culture is horrendous and eats away at your self esteem each and every day.

All I want to do is my best and make a difference but working under senior officers who are clearly not up to the job is so difficult.

It's just a mess and it looks like its going to get a lot worse when this next round of cuts gets going!
[quote][p][bold]bickyboy[/bold] wrote: Risky analogy, MX, though I know what you're getting at. I wouldn't like to work at WBC right now and be trying to do a PROPER job: the morale of the average "bog standard" council worker as they watch the corrupt and downright incompetent heading for the hills with their pockets bulging with loot, and see the reputation of the organisation (sic) they work for being dragged through the mud, again and again must be sub-rock- bottom. It's no longer appropriate to compare these people with pigs feeding at a trough, because such a comparison has now become a gross insult to our porcine friends.[/p][/quote]Spot on Bickyboy! For the first time in my life I dread going to work. I have always taken great pride in the job I do but working for this council is demoralising. The worst part of it is working under senior officers who you have no respect for and who have no respect for you! Trying to do your best under these circumstances seriously attacks your mental health. The culture is horrendous and eats away at your self esteem each and every day. All I want to do is my best and make a difference but working under senior officers who are clearly not up to the job is so difficult. It's just a mess and it looks like its going to get a lot worse when this next round of cuts gets going! council officer

9:31am Sat 6 Oct 12

hobroW says...

as ben beaconsfield writes Milton did put a lot of integrity into his role as spin doctor. In fact he believed what he was saying and indeed his contributions are so great that they underpinned much of the American revolution, and some of the French revolution.

he meant what he said, and said what he meant. Obfuscation was the strong point of his satire on the ultimate spin doctor-Satan in Paradise Lost.

Mayhap the Town Hall Brighton Street is Pandemonium
as ben beaconsfield writes Milton did put a lot of integrity into his role as spin doctor. In fact he believed what he was saying and indeed his contributions are so great that they underpinned much of the American revolution, and some of the French revolution. he meant what he said, and said what he meant. Obfuscation was the strong point of his satire on the ultimate spin doctor-Satan in Paradise Lost. Mayhap the Town Hall Brighton Street is Pandemonium hobroW

9:44am Sat 6 Oct 12

hobroW says...

on the theme of Paradise Lost and the Fall, Satan consorts with his daughter Sin producing Death and the rebellion

Incest creates monstrosity

WBC promotes from within its own ranks so ultimately a council baths attendant if he sticks at the job for twenty years may rise to chief executive> sin sprouting from the head of satan?
on the theme of Paradise Lost and the Fall, Satan consorts with his daughter Sin producing Death and the rebellion Incest creates monstrosity WBC promotes from within its own ranks so ultimately a council baths attendant if he sticks at the job for twenty years may rise to chief executive> sin sprouting from the head of satan? hobroW

9:59am Sat 6 Oct 12

bickyboy says...

It's no longer acceptable for Phil Davies or anyone else claiming to represent the council to react to the latest in a seemingly endless line of scandals with a carefully prepared but totally worthless list of cliches. There never was much value in reacting to a crisis with a rollcall of vague, aspirational soundbites, and decisive action seems beyond the wit and wisdom of the Council Chamber.

I urge the Wirral Globe to refuse to print any more fatuous, banal, hindsight-fuelled speeches until our councillors have something new to say; something that actually inspires a little confidence rather than confirming the mediocrity, complacency and impotence of our elected representatives in the face of a seemingly endless series of self-inflicted crises.
It's no longer acceptable for Phil Davies or anyone else claiming to represent the council to react to the latest in a seemingly endless line of scandals with a carefully prepared but totally worthless list of cliches. There never was much value in reacting to a crisis with a rollcall of vague, aspirational soundbites, and decisive action seems beyond the wit and wisdom of the Council Chamber. I urge the Wirral Globe to refuse to print any more fatuous, banal, hindsight-fuelled speeches until our councillors have something new to say; something that actually inspires a little confidence rather than confirming the mediocrity, complacency and impotence of our elected representatives in the face of a seemingly endless series of self-inflicted crises. bickyboy

10:22am Sat 6 Oct 12

uncatom says...

Surely Mr Coleman would like the opportunity to clear his name of any alleged wrong doing at an employment tribunal as any right minded person would wish to do, go on Mr C insist on justice being done if you have nothing to fear.
Surely Mr Coleman would like the opportunity to clear his name of any alleged wrong doing at an employment tribunal as any right minded person would wish to do, go on Mr C insist on justice being done if you have nothing to fear. uncatom

10:32am Sat 6 Oct 12

Hugo1008 says...

I see that my original posting has been taken off the list, never mind.

I would however like to remind each and eveyone there is no WBC Employee no matter what position they hold can make decisions such as we have seen, unless this is backed and fully supported by your local elected councillor, so please do remember it is your elected representative who is fully responsible for the actions of WBC.

When you give them any of them or all 66 of them your support it is you who allows them to make these obscene financial arrangements behind closed doors and in secret.
I see that my original posting has been taken off the list, never mind. I would however like to remind each and eveyone there is no WBC Employee no matter what position they hold can make decisions such as we have seen, unless this is backed and fully supported by your local elected councillor, so please do remember it is your elected representative who is fully responsible for the actions of WBC. When you give them any of them or all 66 of them your support it is you who allows them to make these obscene financial arrangements behind closed doors and in secret. Hugo1008

10:41am Sat 6 Oct 12

PaulCa says...

Bickyboy. They don't need to say anything at all... just ACT.

Sackings. Now.

Firm, concerted action, designed to send out the message to everybody, from the top of the organisation to the very bottom - that they won't stand for it.

In fact, the same kind of pooled energy, resolution, and a swift call to action that's on display in other situations.... for example, when a lone whistleblower pops up.
Bickyboy. They don't need to say anything at all... just ACT. Sackings. Now. Firm, concerted action, designed to send out the message to everybody, from the top of the organisation to the very bottom - that they won't stand for it. In fact, the same kind of pooled energy, resolution, and a swift call to action that's on display in other situations.... for example, when a lone whistleblower pops up. PaulCa

10:42am Sat 6 Oct 12

PeteSheff says...

I'm not familiar with Miltons work but I like this:

WBC promotes from within its own ranks so ultimately a council baths attendant if he sticks at the job for twenty years may rise to chief executive> sin sprouting from the head of satan?

This could be part of WBC's new HR motivational training Policy.

'Sin sprouting from the head of satan' could be the name of the CX monthly newsletter.
I'm not familiar with Miltons work but I like this: WBC promotes from within its own ranks so ultimately a council baths attendant if he sticks at the job for twenty years may rise to chief executive> sin sprouting from the head of satan? This could be part of WBC's new HR motivational training Policy. 'Sin sprouting from the head of satan' could be the name of the CX monthly newsletter. PeteSheff

10:59am Sat 6 Oct 12

PeteSheff says...

Normally in the real world - if you can't do your job and make endless mistakes you get dragged through the capability policy.

In the real world...If you do something wrong, contrary to policy, making it up as you go along you tend to get disciplined.

In the real world... If you take 'undeclared hospitality', fail to do your job, fail to carry out your duties, fail to adhere to standards, fail to adhere to the law, give public service contracts to your mates, hoodwink the audit commission, mismanage the finances of a local authority, bury the truth, preside over the worst run, scandal laden council in the country criticised over every aspect of its management by every outside agency it ever comes into contact with... You get suspended pending an investigation which would thoroughly investigate wrongdoing and hold you to account for your actions in public office. You lose your job for your failures. You may even have criminal proceedings brought against you...

Or on the Wirral your mates meet in secret and give you £85k and let's not talk about it anymore. See you on the golf course or at the sailing club next week.

Accountability? Outrageous.
Normally in the real world - if you can't do your job and make endless mistakes you get dragged through the capability policy. In the real world...If you do something wrong, contrary to policy, making it up as you go along you tend to get disciplined. In the real world... If you take 'undeclared hospitality', fail to do your job, fail to carry out your duties, fail to adhere to standards, fail to adhere to the law, give public service contracts to your mates, hoodwink the audit commission, mismanage the finances of a local authority, bury the truth, preside over the worst run, scandal laden council in the country criticised over every aspect of its management by every outside agency it ever comes into contact with... You get suspended pending an investigation which would thoroughly investigate wrongdoing and hold you to account for your actions in public office. You lose your job for your failures. You may even have criminal proceedings brought against you... Or on the Wirral your mates meet in secret and give you £85k and let's not talk about it anymore. See you on the golf course or at the sailing club next week. Accountability? Outrageous. PeteSheff

12:44pm Sat 6 Oct 12

hobroW says...

"So spake th"Apostate Angel, vaunting aloud
But inward racked with pain"

of Satan ...of Council Leaders?
"So spake th"Apostate Angel, vaunting aloud But inward racked with pain" of Satan ...of Council Leaders? hobroW

12:48pm Sat 6 Oct 12

hobroW says...

of scandal heaped upon scandal

and in the deepest deep, a deeper deep
still threatening to open and devour me
To which the Hell I suffer now seems a Heaven"
Satan PL
of scandal heaped upon scandal and in the deepest deep, a deeper deep still threatening to open and devour me To which the Hell I suffer now seems a Heaven" Satan PL hobroW

1:34pm Sat 6 Oct 12

Tautology says...

hobroW wrote:
"So spake th"Apostate Angel, vaunting aloud
But inward racked with pain"

of Satan ...of Council Leaders?
Do you honestly believe, that there is a vestige of conscience in these people?
[quote][p][bold]hobroW[/bold] wrote: "So spake th"Apostate Angel, vaunting aloud But inward racked with pain" of Satan ...of Council Leaders?[/p][/quote]Do you honestly believe, that there is a vestige of conscience in these people? Tautology

1:39pm Sat 6 Oct 12

bickyboy says...

This is all getting a bit too highbrow for me. Quotes from Max Hastings's war books are more my line; Milton, magnificent though he was, always sent me to sleep in my English Lit lessons.

I agree, PaulCa, that action would be far more effective than words. Effective for those of us who pay our council tax and expect competence and accountability; maybe not so for those who think the public are so stupid that a few soundbite-packed Press releases will dissuade the slack jawed plebs from demanding that stones continue to be turned over to reveal the horrors underneath. .
This is all getting a bit too highbrow for me. Quotes from Max Hastings's war books are more my line; Milton, magnificent though he was, always sent me to sleep in my English Lit lessons. I agree, PaulCa, that action would be far more effective than words. Effective for those of us who pay our council tax and expect competence and accountability; maybe not so for those who think the public are so stupid that a few soundbite-packed Press releases will dissuade the slack jawed plebs from demanding that stones continue to be turned over to reveal the horrors underneath. . bickyboy

2:09pm Sat 6 Oct 12

hobroW says...

I like WW2 Goering soundbite to world journalists after Night of Long Knives 30 June 1934
"Boy, have I got news for you"
This was said with such aplomb that it needs to be studied, along with Goebbels pronouncement "The bigger the lie, the more people believe it", by all spokesmen for WBC!
I like WW2 Goering soundbite to world journalists after Night of Long Knives 30 June 1934 "Boy, have I got news for you" This was said with such aplomb that it needs to be studied, along with Goebbels pronouncement "The bigger the lie, the more people believe it", by all spokesmen for WBC! hobroW

3:11pm Sat 6 Oct 12

johnhardaker says...

Apart from sending the article to the local government ombudsman & private eye may i suggest to the editor that he doe's a two page spread & prints all these comments so that wirral residents can see the strength of public anger of the payoff.
I don't think in all the years I have ever seen such outrage at what our council is doing & what people are getting away with. Go ahead Ian published & be dammed what do the rest of you think
Apart from sending the article to the local government ombudsman & private eye may i suggest to the editor that he doe's a two page spread & prints all these comments so that wirral residents can see the strength of public anger of the payoff. I don't think in all the years I have ever seen such outrage at what our council is doing & what people are getting away with. Go ahead Ian published & be dammed what do the rest of you think johnhardaker

3:18pm Sat 6 Oct 12

hobroW says...

Aye I say to johnhardaker, globe publish and while you are at that why is quiet removal of senior auditor at internal auditor not questioned...I know why!
Aye I say to johnhardaker, globe publish and while you are at that why is quiet removal of senior auditor at internal auditor not questioned...I know why! hobroW

4:41pm Sat 6 Oct 12

community counts says...

When are the minutes of this meeting due to be publised, Mr Brace, I am sure you can tell us. Then we can see if any Cllrs had the moral fibre and backbone to side step the party whip and oppose this move.
When are the minutes of this meeting due to be publised, Mr Brace, I am sure you can tell us. Then we can see if any Cllrs had the moral fibre and backbone to side step the party whip and oppose this move. community counts

6:15pm Sat 6 Oct 12

PeteSheff says...

The Big Fund investigation would be an interesting read.. If they ever actually admitted there was an investigation, or concluded it... Or disclosed the findings...
The Big Fund investigation would be an interesting read.. If they ever actually admitted there was an investigation, or concluded it... Or disclosed the findings... PeteSheff

6:50pm Sat 6 Oct 12

hobroW says...

PeteSheff please note I am the whistleblower on BIG Fund and ISUS.

You could use FOI to obtain the report they pulled at last moment by insisting all names be redacted out. You could also FOI the report of P timmins on the Internal audit report.
What I can tell you is that Internal audit operative no longer employed at wirral and his last appearance was at Audit and risk committee at town hall on 21st September where he passed over the replacement of himself by external auditors as being "so they could demonstrate he had done everything by the book and to justify him"...Er NO. The investigation was scrappy and I could prove he did not look at compelling evidence and in one transcript appeared not to have read its contents. This will be a major blot on WBC copybook...wait and see
PeteSheff please note I am the whistleblower on BIG Fund and ISUS. You could use FOI to obtain the report they pulled at last moment by insisting all names be redacted out. You could also FOI the report of P timmins on the Internal audit report. What I can tell you is that Internal audit operative no longer employed at wirral and his last appearance was at Audit and risk committee at town hall on 21st September where he passed over the replacement of himself by external auditors as being "so they could demonstrate he had done everything by the book and to justify him"...Er NO. The investigation was scrappy and I could prove he did not look at compelling evidence and in one transcript appeared not to have read its contents. This will be a major blot on WBC copybook...wait and see hobroW

9:33pm Sat 6 Oct 12

Willow Sherbet says...

Hoodwinked by Wirral Council

If you all thought this was bad then I seriously suggest you all check this out!

Look at Wirral Leaks now!


http://wirralleaks.t
umblr.com

The Ex-Files Update - Wirral Council

A Puppet Gamekeeper and a bunch of Wild West Rustlers deceiving the herd!

Again to the Wirral MPs get the Commissioners in and get them in fast!
Hoodwinked by Wirral Council If you all thought this was bad then I seriously suggest you all check this out! Look at Wirral Leaks now! http://wirralleaks.t umblr.com The Ex-Files Update - Wirral Council A Puppet Gamekeeper and a bunch of Wild West Rustlers deceiving the herd! Again to the Wirral MPs get the Commissioners in and get them in fast! Willow Sherbet

1:55am Sun 7 Oct 12

PeteSheff says...

hobroW says...
6:50pm Sat 6 Oct 12

PeteSheff please note I am the whistleblower on BIG Fund and ISUS.

From May 2012:

http://www.whatdothe
yknow.com/request/wb
c_big_fund_officers_
responsibl#outgoing-
202014

http://www.whatdothe
yknow.com/request/wb
c_big_fund_fraud_inv
estigation#outgoing-
202005

http://www.whatdothe
yknow.com/request/wb
c_big_fund_award_pro
cess_and_c#outgoing-
202007
hobroW says... 6:50pm Sat 6 Oct 12 PeteSheff please note I am the whistleblower on BIG Fund and ISUS. From May 2012: http://www.whatdothe yknow.com/request/wb c_big_fund_officers_ responsibl#outgoing- 202014 http://www.whatdothe yknow.com/request/wb c_big_fund_fraud_inv estigation#outgoing- 202005 http://www.whatdothe yknow.com/request/wb c_big_fund_award_pro cess_and_c#outgoing- 202007 PeteSheff

8:19am Sun 7 Oct 12

JohnON says...

When you have an electorate at the local elections, the majority of which is more concerned about maximizing their chances of continuing with their free handouts than of balancing the council books, you have an electorate that isn't particularly concerned about the scruples of their providers.

Democracy at work.
When you have an electorate at the local elections, the majority of which is more concerned about maximizing their chances of continuing with their free handouts than of balancing the council books, you have an electorate that isn't particularly concerned about the scruples of their providers. Democracy at work. JohnON

10:33am Sun 7 Oct 12

ArdalMcFardle says...

"the majority of which is more concerned about maximizing their chances of continuing with their free handouts than of balancing the council books, "

That's a very crass and somewhat offensive generalisation. Why not aim your sights at the corrupt Senior officers, or the Councils over paid spin department, who still incredibly have jobs and have GB's ear, rather than bring up the old "undeserving poor" chestnut
"the majority of which is more concerned about maximizing their chances of continuing with their free handouts than of balancing the council books, " That's a very crass and somewhat offensive generalisation. Why not aim your sights at the corrupt Senior officers, or the Councils over paid spin department, who still incredibly have jobs and have GB's ear, rather than bring up the old "undeserving poor" chestnut ArdalMcFardle

11:15am Sun 7 Oct 12

johnbrace says...

community counts wrote:
When are the minutes of this meeting due to be publised, Mr Brace, I am sure you can tell us. Then we can see if any Cllrs had the moral fibre and backbone to side step the party whip and oppose this move.
Thank you for your query, community counts. I wasn't at the meeting, but at my local Area Forum. Generally the minutes would be published to be approved ready for the next E&A meeting, which is provisionally down as the 22nd October 2012.

However with a full Council meeting on 15th October 2012, it's possible they'll be ready by then. Obviously they'll currently be in draft form, which could be requested from the person who took them.
[quote][p][bold]community counts[/bold] wrote: When are the minutes of this meeting due to be publised, Mr Brace, I am sure you can tell us. Then we can see if any Cllrs had the moral fibre and backbone to side step the party whip and oppose this move.[/p][/quote]Thank you for your query, community counts. I wasn't at the meeting, but at my local Area Forum. Generally the minutes would be published to be approved ready for the next E&A meeting, which is provisionally down as the 22nd October 2012. However with a full Council meeting on 15th October 2012, it's possible they'll be ready by then. Obviously they'll currently be in draft form, which could be requested from the person who took them. johnbrace

12:09pm Sun 7 Oct 12

JohnON says...

"Why not aim your sights at the corrupt Senior officers, or the Councils over paid spin department, who still incredibly have jobs and have GB's ear, rather than bring up the old "undeserving poor" chestnut"

'Undeserving poor' are your words not mine. I have great sympathy for those of us who fall on hard times and who deserve all the help that's needed but I am less sympathetic towards those who seem to plan both their lifestyle and their future based on the "what can they get out of the system" principle.

To address your second point, as I see it, my only redress is through the ballot box. How otherwise do you suggest I "aim my sights at the corrupt Senior officers, or the Councils over paid spin department.." ??
"Why not aim your sights at the corrupt Senior officers, or the Councils over paid spin department, who still incredibly have jobs and have GB's ear, rather than bring up the old "undeserving poor" chestnut" 'Undeserving poor' are your words not mine. I have great sympathy for those of us who fall on hard times and who deserve all the help that's needed but I am less sympathetic towards those who seem to plan both their lifestyle and their future based on the "what can they get out of the system" principle. To address your second point, as I see it, my only redress is through the ballot box. How otherwise do you suggest I "aim my sights at the corrupt Senior officers, or the Councils over paid spin department.." ?? JohnON

2:29pm Sun 7 Oct 12

ArdalMcFardle says...

Not my words skipper, a concept alluded to by our glorious PM and his ATOS loving cronies. My issue was you said the "majority" , I'd like to see your stats on which you base that sweeping assumption. £60 quid a week a life style choice for the majority? REALLY??

As to the second point, well, just a few ideas off the top of my head ... you could write to your MP , you could write to your local radio stations/newspapers you could take up "citizen journalism" you could join or form a pressure group, you could submit FOI requests. There are a myriad of ways to put pressure on this disgraceful council. As we have seen on the Wirral, no matter who you elect, the Senior Officers seem to stay in post or get a nice wedge of hush money until the next scandal rears its head. Even now I hear tales of one officer threatening to take people down, if things don't go his way...If I were a Councillor I'd say "do your worst"
Not my words skipper, a concept alluded to by our glorious PM and his ATOS loving cronies. My issue was you said the "majority" , I'd like to see your stats on which you base that sweeping assumption. £60 quid a week a life style choice for the majority? REALLY?? As to the second point, well, just a few ideas off the top of my head ... you could write to your MP , you could write to your local radio stations/newspapers you could take up "citizen journalism" you could join or form a pressure group, you could submit FOI requests. There are a myriad of ways to put pressure on this disgraceful council. As we have seen on the Wirral, no matter who you elect, the Senior Officers seem to stay in post or get a nice wedge of hush money until the next scandal rears its head. Even now I hear tales of one officer threatening to take people down, if things don't go his way...If I were a Councillor I'd say "do your worst" ArdalMcFardle

3:31pm Sun 7 Oct 12

PeteSheff says...

Good post Ardle.

This is just the tip of the iceberg, confirmed by those threatening to spill the beans.

For any of this to have real meaning and to be dealt with appropriately and authentically.. First you need the truth... Then you need justice. In local government terms this is transparency and accountability.

All this 'it's getting better' rhetoric is failing to address the fundamentals of officers getting away with breaking the law, discriminating, running a lawless gentlemans club accepting hospitality and awarding contracts to their mates down the sailing club and an unhealthy dose of malfeasance and complete lack of rules, policy and procedure..

The way to address the above is to say these people did wrong, investigate, deal appropriately with it and say how it's been fixed and what to expect in the future.

Paying people off in private meetings unfortunately gives the impression the 'new' regime is colluding with the old, fails to Instill any confidence in the council and shows that they still pick and choose when to follow policy and procedure.

This is what got WBC in the position it is in today by failing to recognise, investigate, discipline and hold to account those involved in serious issues. Leading to a culture of paranoia waiting for the next big secret to come out...

Lets have it all out. Lets see what went on. Lets come clean. Lets see who made mistakes and why. Lets see what's been done to fix it. Lets see the lessons learned.

That's the way forward.
Good post Ardle. This is just the tip of the iceberg, confirmed by those threatening to spill the beans. For any of this to have real meaning and to be dealt with appropriately and authentically.. First you need the truth... Then you need justice. In local government terms this is transparency and accountability. All this 'it's getting better' rhetoric is failing to address the fundamentals of officers getting away with breaking the law, discriminating, running a lawless gentlemans club accepting hospitality and awarding contracts to their mates down the sailing club and an unhealthy dose of malfeasance and complete lack of rules, policy and procedure.. The way to address the above is to say these people did wrong, investigate, deal appropriately with it and say how it's been fixed and what to expect in the future. Paying people off in private meetings unfortunately gives the impression the 'new' regime is colluding with the old, fails to Instill any confidence in the council and shows that they still pick and choose when to follow policy and procedure. This is what got WBC in the position it is in today by failing to recognise, investigate, discipline and hold to account those involved in serious issues. Leading to a culture of paranoia waiting for the next big secret to come out... Lets have it all out. Lets see what went on. Lets come clean. Lets see who made mistakes and why. Lets see what's been done to fix it. Lets see the lessons learned. That's the way forward. PeteSheff

4:22pm Sun 7 Oct 12

JohnON says...

"My issue was you said the "majority" "

I used the word 'majority' in the sense that, presumably, the Council reflects the wishes of the majority of those who voted. If it doesn't then there's no point in voting - and I don't agree with that at all !

Other than the difference we have over the term "undeserving poor", I agree 100% with what you say -- well, I would agree with it except the residents & Council of Wirral have been dancing round in the same circle for 13 years or more. It seems pretty obvious to me that no amount of rhetoric or writing to MPs, or newspapers or Private Eye or anyone else is going to make the slightest difference.

There IS only one option that could have an effect and that's the ballot box with a totally unambiguous result..... and that ain't never going to happen.
"My issue was you said the "majority" " I used the word 'majority' in the sense that, presumably, the Council reflects the wishes of the majority of those who voted. If it doesn't then there's no point in voting - and I don't agree with that at all ! Other than the difference we have over the term "undeserving poor", I agree 100% with what you say -- well, I would agree with it except the residents & Council of Wirral have been dancing round in the same circle for 13 years or more. It seems pretty obvious to me that no amount of rhetoric or writing to MPs, or newspapers or Private Eye or anyone else is going to make the slightest difference. There IS only one option that could have an effect and that's the ballot box with a totally unambiguous result..... and that ain't never going to happen. JohnON

9:45am Mon 8 Oct 12

Hugo1008 says...

The stench of foul dirty corruption, mismanagement, and deep evil deceit permeats the very atmostophere in Brighton Street.

Even the ordinary run of the mill council employees, who have little or no influence on the direction council takes feel deeply ashamed to be even remotly part of the Council Machine.

I have met and talked to quite a few who are truly frightened to speak about the disgraceful activities they are expected to carry out, they fear for their jobs, and have every right to feel this way.

They dozens of them would love to speak up if they felt there was a modicum of protection, they know what is right and what is wrong, but feel powerless to reveal what they witness every day.

My message to them is this, put down what you see as wrong in your work in writing send you messages into your local media, you do not have to reveal your identity.
These letters and notes will be carefully examined, trained investigating reporters will track down the truth from the fiction and you will be at no risk.
The truth will out eventually and all will be revealed.

The good honest and reliable trustworthy staff will soon see the benefits, and your working life will improve dramatically.
The stench of foul dirty corruption, mismanagement, and deep evil deceit permeats the very atmostophere in Brighton Street. Even the ordinary run of the mill council employees, who have little or no influence on the direction council takes feel deeply ashamed to be even remotly part of the Council Machine. I have met and talked to quite a few who are truly frightened to speak about the disgraceful activities they are expected to carry out, they fear for their jobs, and have every right to feel this way. They dozens of them would love to speak up if they felt there was a modicum of protection, they know what is right and what is wrong, but feel powerless to reveal what they witness every day. My message to them is this, put down what you see as wrong in your work in writing send you messages into your local media, you do not have to reveal your identity. These letters and notes will be carefully examined, trained investigating reporters will track down the truth from the fiction and you will be at no risk. The truth will out eventually and all will be revealed. The good honest and reliable trustworthy staff will soon see the benefits, and your working life will improve dramatically. Hugo1008

11:44am Mon 8 Oct 12

niggle rumps says...

"Mr Burgess said this process could have taken a considerable amount of time and resulted in costs upwards of £1m to the taxpayer"

If this is the case then surely, Logic dictates that you should ask the Tax Payers there opinion?!

I for one as a Wirral resident and tax payer would rather see the likes of Ian Coleman, David Green, Bill Norman and David Taylor-Smith brought to account to make sure that the message sent out is clear, that this sort of thing WILL NOT be tolerated on the Wirral or anywhere else. Giving these type men a payoff and a handshake each time will cost a lot more in the long run than nipping this sort of behavior in the bud NOW! It also sends out the wrong message: Do what you like just make sure your pension will cost slightly less than the investigation

Very disturbing indeed!
"Mr Burgess said this process could have taken a considerable amount of time and resulted in costs upwards of £1m to the taxpayer" If this is the case then surely, Logic dictates that you should ask the Tax Payers there opinion?! I for one as a Wirral resident and tax payer would rather see the likes of Ian Coleman, David Green, Bill Norman and David Taylor-Smith brought to account to make sure that the message sent out is clear, that this sort of thing WILL NOT be tolerated on the Wirral or anywhere else. Giving these type men a payoff and a handshake each time will cost a lot more in the long run than nipping this sort of behavior in the bud NOW! It also sends out the wrong message: Do what you like just make sure your pension will cost slightly less than the investigation Very disturbing indeed! niggle rumps

1:06pm Mon 8 Oct 12

ArdalMcFardle says...

“The 82K is certainly the tip of the iceberg and is simply the sum Wirral charge payers are handing over to Merseyside Pension Fund to allow the retiree to go before his normal retirement date (60 yrs. minimum)

An additional severance payment is normally paid to the individual concerned and can be up to 66 weeks of salary. Given that Wirral MBC Chief Officers enjoy a remuneration of over £100k per annum the payoff can be well into six figures."
“The 82K is certainly the tip of the iceberg and is simply the sum Wirral charge payers are handing over to Merseyside Pension Fund to allow the retiree to go before his normal retirement date (60 yrs. minimum) An additional severance payment is normally paid to the individual concerned and can be up to 66 weeks of salary. Given that Wirral MBC Chief Officers enjoy a remuneration of over £100k per annum the payoff can be well into six figures." ArdalMcFardle

1:59pm Mon 8 Oct 12

hobroW says...

PeteSheff wrote:
hobroW says...
6:50pm Sat 6 Oct 12

PeteSheff please note I am the whistleblower on BIG Fund and ISUS.

From May 2012:

http://www.whatdothe

yknow.com/request/wb

c_big_fund_officers_

responsibl#outgoing-

202014

http://www.whatdothe

yknow.com/request/wb

c_big_fund_fraud_inv

estigation#outgoing-

202005

http://www.whatdothe

yknow.com/request/wb

c_big_fund_award_pro

cess_and_c#outgoing-

202007
so the public despite FOI requests was kept as ignorant as myself, Nigel Hobro, the whistleblower.

I still know no more than that Internal Audit prepared a report after an "investigation" from September 2011 until September 2012. That report was junnked before publication by Mr Peter Timmins and the Audit committee for Risk and Fraud was told on 20th September that the report would "subsequently" be made!

Quis custodiet custodes ipses?

Who will guard the guardians themselves?
[quote][p][bold]PeteSheff[/bold] wrote: hobroW says... 6:50pm Sat 6 Oct 12 PeteSheff please note I am the whistleblower on BIG Fund and ISUS. From May 2012: http://www.whatdothe yknow.com/request/wb c_big_fund_officers_ responsibl#outgoing- 202014 http://www.whatdothe yknow.com/request/wb c_big_fund_fraud_inv estigation#outgoing- 202005 http://www.whatdothe yknow.com/request/wb c_big_fund_award_pro cess_and_c#outgoing- 202007[/p][/quote]so the public despite FOI requests was kept as ignorant as myself, Nigel Hobro, the whistleblower. I still know no more than that Internal Audit prepared a report after an "investigation" from September 2011 until September 2012. That report was junnked before publication by Mr Peter Timmins and the Audit committee for Risk and Fraud was told on 20th September that the report would "subsequently" be made! Quis custodiet custodes ipses? Who will guard the guardians themselves? hobroW

2:25pm Mon 8 Oct 12

Growl Tiger says...

For reasons known only to themselves and certain Wirral Councillors, David Green, Ian Coleman, David Taylor Smith and Bill Norman were all responsible for opening up a quiet residential road in Heswall and turning it into a dangerous rat run. The road is also a Byway where priority use is meant to be for walkers and equestrians. Previously they were the main users.

When residents complained about the increase in traffic and speed the aforementioned officers duped them with broken promises about traffic control and restrictions and by coincidence the same officers dealt with our official complaint. Nearly 4 years on and following an Ombudsman’s critical report the Council has done absolutely nothing to make the road safe again and restore it to its previous tranquillity. Yet Councillors constantly spout on about their desire to encourage healthy outdoor activities and the need for improved road safety – except in this case it would seem.

I moved here from a different part of the country and have been astonished at the goings on in this Council and amazed at its lack of transparency and accountability. I agree with “niggle rumps” that the 4 officers should be brought to task and not allowed to melt away into the ether with their swag bags in their hands. However, can so many Councillors be totally innocent about what has been happening at WBC? If it comes to light that some have been manipulating the system to suit their own agenda then they too should be thoroughly investigated.
For reasons known only to themselves and certain Wirral Councillors, David Green, Ian Coleman, David Taylor Smith and Bill Norman were all responsible for opening up a quiet residential road in Heswall and turning it into a dangerous rat run. The road is also a Byway where priority use is meant to be for walkers and equestrians. Previously they were the main users. When residents complained about the increase in traffic and speed the aforementioned officers duped them with broken promises about traffic control and restrictions and by coincidence the same officers dealt with our official complaint. Nearly 4 years on and following an Ombudsman’s critical report the Council has done absolutely nothing to make the road safe again and restore it to its previous tranquillity. Yet Councillors constantly spout on about their desire to encourage healthy outdoor activities and the need for improved road safety – except in this case it would seem. I moved here from a different part of the country and have been astonished at the goings on in this Council and amazed at its lack of transparency and accountability. I agree with “niggle rumps” that the 4 officers should be brought to task and not allowed to melt away into the ether with their swag bags in their hands. However, can so many Councillors be totally innocent about what has been happening at WBC? If it comes to light that some have been manipulating the system to suit their own agenda then they too should be thoroughly investigated. Growl Tiger

4:50pm Mon 8 Oct 12

David-X says...

We declare our right on this earth...to be a human being, to be respected as a human being, to be given the rights of a human being in this society, on this earth, in this day, which we intend to bring into existence by any means necessary

Power in defense of freedom is greater than power in behalf of tyranny and oppression. You don't have to be a man to fight for freedom. All you have to do is to be an intelligent human being. Usually when people are sad, they don't do anything. They just cry over their condition. But when they get angry, they bring about a change.

I for one believe that if you give people a thorough understanding of what confronts them and the basic causes that produce it, they'll create their own program, and when the people create a program, you get action.
We declare our right on this earth...to be a human being, to be respected as a human being, to be given the rights of a human being in this society, on this earth, in this day, which we intend to bring into existence by any means necessary Power in defense of freedom is greater than power in behalf of tyranny and oppression. You don't have to be a man to fight for freedom. All you have to do is to be an intelligent human being. Usually when people are sad, they don't do anything. They just cry over their condition. But when they get angry, they bring about a change. I for one believe that if you give people a thorough understanding of what confronts them and the basic causes that produce it, they'll create their own program, and when the people create a program, you get action. David-X

4:53pm Mon 8 Oct 12

niggle rumps says...

David-X wrote:
We declare our right on this earth...to be a human being, to be respected as a human being, to be given the rights of a human being in this society, on this earth, in this day, which we intend to bring into existence by any means necessary Power in defense of freedom is greater than power in behalf of tyranny and oppression. You don't have to be a man to fight for freedom. All you have to do is to be an intelligent human being. Usually when people are sad, they don't do anything. They just cry over their condition. But when they get angry, they bring about a change. I for one believe that if you give people a thorough understanding of what confronts them and the basic causes that produce it, they'll create their own program, and when the people create a program, you get action.
Hmmmm, very interesting mr X.

What do want - 'ACTION'

When do we want it - 'NOW'
[quote][p][bold]David-X[/bold] wrote: We declare our right on this earth...to be a human being, to be respected as a human being, to be given the rights of a human being in this society, on this earth, in this day, which we intend to bring into existence by any means necessary Power in defense of freedom is greater than power in behalf of tyranny and oppression. You don't have to be a man to fight for freedom. All you have to do is to be an intelligent human being. Usually when people are sad, they don't do anything. They just cry over their condition. But when they get angry, they bring about a change. I for one believe that if you give people a thorough understanding of what confronts them and the basic causes that produce it, they'll create their own program, and when the people create a program, you get action.[/p][/quote]Hmmmm, very interesting mr X. What do want - 'ACTION' When do we want it - 'NOW' niggle rumps

8:32pm Mon 8 Oct 12

ordinary personn says...

If the culture at WBC is a toxic as it seems to be I’m not convinced anything will change unless the government intervenes and takes over. Surely any senior managers who have any integrity would have stood up and blown the whistle on what has been going on. But did they? No, not a single one. All the issues have been brought to light by whistleblowers lower down the ranks who have demonstrated their integrity and stood up for what they think is right. And look how they were and are treated.

Have no senior officers got any integrity and/or the nous to see what is wrong and the courage to stand up for what is right? Or are they all either spineless or as bad as each other? Are none of them clean enough to whistle blow? Even if they are clean – as Burke said, all that is necessary for the triumph of evil is that good men do nothing - so to me they have been complicit by their silence. I suspect they think that if they keep quiet, keep their heads down and umbrellas up, when the dust clears they’ll be in line for a nice promotion and increase in salary.
If the culture at WBC is a toxic as it seems to be I’m not convinced anything will change unless the government intervenes and takes over. Surely any senior managers who have any integrity would have stood up and blown the whistle on what has been going on. But did they? No, not a single one. All the issues have been brought to light by whistleblowers lower down the ranks who have demonstrated their integrity and stood up for what they think is right. And look how they were and are treated. Have no senior officers got any integrity and/or the nous to see what is wrong and the courage to stand up for what is right? Or are they all either spineless or as bad as each other? Are none of them clean enough to whistle blow? Even if they are clean – as Burke said, all that is necessary for the triumph of evil is that good men do nothing - so to me they have been complicit by their silence. I suspect they think that if they keep quiet, keep their heads down and umbrellas up, when the dust clears they’ll be in line for a nice promotion and increase in salary. ordinary personn

9:46pm Mon 8 Oct 12

Positive thinker says...

So if the boot was on the other foot,would you all refuse what the chap is getting?
So if the boot was on the other foot,would you all refuse what the chap is getting? Positive thinker

9:19am Tue 9 Oct 12

niggle rumps says...

Positive thinker wrote:
So if the boot was on the other foot,would you all refuse what the chap is getting?
So I see that your username is ironic then 'Positive thinker'.

I would hope and assume that most if not all on here wouldn't get into the situation the 'chap' is in, you know corruption, dishonesty, breaking the law etc etc
[quote][p][bold]Positive thinker[/bold] wrote: So if the boot was on the other foot,would you all refuse what the chap is getting?[/p][/quote]So I see that your username is ironic then 'Positive thinker'. I would hope and assume that most if not all on here wouldn't get into the situation the 'chap' is in, you know corruption, dishonesty, breaking the law etc etc niggle rumps

9:22am Tue 9 Oct 12

David-X says...

I'm for truth, no matter who tells it. I'm for justice, no matter who it's for or against. A man who stands for nothing will fall for anything.
I'm for truth, no matter who tells it. I'm for justice, no matter who it's for or against. A man who stands for nothing will fall for anything. David-X

1:00pm Tue 9 Oct 12

Positive thinker says...

Niggle rump,
What's that saying? You can't please every one all of the time,if corruption was going on they would all be arrested
Niggle rump, What's that saying? You can't please every one all of the time,if corruption was going on they would all be arrested Positive thinker

1:49pm Tue 9 Oct 12

hobroW says...

Lets us be clear. I am a whistleblower. I re-iterate that it is accepted that WBC internal audit looked the other way for one year before producing a report that Mr G Burgess described as "Not fit for purpose".

My treatment for providing detailed evidence not hearsay? Hostility and being lied to by Internal Audit. Soon this will explode- mayhap after my employment tribunal on thursday and Friday this week

Oh and the council officers failed to abide by their published Whistleblower rules, there presumably only to impress !
Lets us be clear. I am a whistleblower. I re-iterate that it is accepted that WBC internal audit looked the other way for one year before producing a report that Mr G Burgess described as "Not fit for purpose". My treatment for providing detailed evidence not hearsay? Hostility and being lied to by Internal Audit. Soon this will explode- mayhap after my employment tribunal on thursday and Friday this week Oh and the council officers failed to abide by their published Whistleblower rules, there presumably only to impress ! hobroW

1:49pm Tue 9 Oct 12

Cheesy Peas says...

How naive you are to the ways our the senior tiers of local government, PT.

Suggest you get hold of a few copies of Private Eye and study the Rotten Boroughs column.
How naive you are to the ways our the senior tiers of local government, PT. Suggest you get hold of a few copies of Private Eye and study the Rotten Boroughs column. Cheesy Peas

2:08pm Tue 9 Oct 12

niggle rumps says...

Where is Mr Downey and the other Highway whistleblowers in all of this?
Interesting to see Frank Field’s plans for them:
http://www.frankfiel
d.com/franks-blog/bl
og.aspx?b=174
Where is Mr Downey and the other Highway whistleblowers in all of this? Interesting to see Frank Field’s plans for them: http://www.frankfiel d.com/franks-blog/bl og.aspx?b=174 niggle rumps

4:11pm Tue 9 Oct 12

ArdalMcFardle says...

The Council will never willingly do the right thing, public shamings seem to have little effect. They merely batton down the hatches and carry on regardless, appointing stooges like the two Graham's. Whilst Spinders and her Legion of Winged Monkeys hold sway nothing will change.
The Council will never willingly do the right thing, public shamings seem to have little effect. They merely batton down the hatches and carry on regardless, appointing stooges like the two Graham's. Whilst Spinders and her Legion of Winged Monkeys hold sway nothing will change. ArdalMcFardle

5:47pm Tue 9 Oct 12

PeteSheff says...

hobroW wrote:
Lets us be clear. I am a whistleblower. I re-iterate that it is accepted that WBC internal audit looked the other way for one year before producing a report that Mr G Burgess described as "Not fit for purpose".

My treatment for providing detailed evidence not hearsay? Hostility and being lied to by Internal Audit. Soon this will explode- mayhap after my employment tribunal on thursday and Friday this week

Oh and the council officers failed to abide by their published Whistleblower rules, there presumably only to impress !
This sounds like it might be quite interesting to the media.

Maybe your experiences of tribunal would be shared to better understand the events?

Dale Street?
[quote][p][bold]hobroW[/bold] wrote: Lets us be clear. I am a whistleblower. I re-iterate that it is accepted that WBC internal audit looked the other way for one year before producing a report that Mr G Burgess described as "Not fit for purpose". My treatment for providing detailed evidence not hearsay? Hostility and being lied to by Internal Audit. Soon this will explode- mayhap after my employment tribunal on thursday and Friday this week Oh and the council officers failed to abide by their published Whistleblower rules, there presumably only to impress ![/p][/quote]This sounds like it might be quite interesting to the media. Maybe your experiences of tribunal would be shared to better understand the events? Dale Street? PeteSheff

6:35pm Tue 9 Oct 12

Positive thinker says...

These councillors are thick skinned or
find all the blogs posted laughable
These councillors are thick skinned or find all the blogs posted laughable Positive thinker

10:12pm Tue 9 Oct 12

PaulCa says...

hobroW wrote:
Lets us be clear. I am a whistleblower. I re-iterate that it is accepted that WBC internal audit looked the other way for one year before producing a report that Mr G Burgess described as "Not fit for purpose".

My treatment for providing detailed evidence not hearsay? Hostility and being lied to by Internal Audit. Soon this will explode- mayhap after my employment tribunal on thursday and Friday this week

Oh and the council officers failed to abide by their published Whistleblower rules, there presumably only to impress !
As you stride up the court steps on Thursday to get justice, you may be accosted by a whimpering, salaried council stooge bearing gifts.

If this happens, will you take the public money on offer, or will you have your day in court? The power is in your hands. I can imagine they and potentially "others" have been putting you through hell. Don't let them forget that.

Your case could be the straw to break the camel's back. Please sing loud and clear and post a link to where we can read all the sordid details of your tribunal.

The public interest, for so long sidelined, must be satisfied and accountability is ALL.

Good luck.
[quote][p][bold]hobroW[/bold] wrote: Lets us be clear. I am a whistleblower. I re-iterate that it is accepted that WBC internal audit looked the other way for one year before producing a report that Mr G Burgess described as "Not fit for purpose". My treatment for providing detailed evidence not hearsay? Hostility and being lied to by Internal Audit. Soon this will explode- mayhap after my employment tribunal on thursday and Friday this week Oh and the council officers failed to abide by their published Whistleblower rules, there presumably only to impress ![/p][/quote]As you stride up the court steps on Thursday to get justice, you may be accosted by a whimpering, salaried council stooge bearing gifts. If this happens, will you take the public money on offer, or will you have your day in court? The power is in your hands. I can imagine they and potentially "others" have been putting you through hell. Don't let them forget that. Your case could be the straw to break the camel's back. Please sing loud and clear and post a link to where we can read all the sordid details of your tribunal. The public interest, for so long sidelined, must be satisfied and accountability is ALL. Good luck. PaulCa

12:45am Wed 10 Oct 12

Jimrob says...

Oi Frank!!!!!!!!

Where the hell are you man?

You started this ball rolling. Now your silence is DEAFENING!!!!!

Was that just an idle threat to bring in the Serious Fraud Office at the beginning of this particular debarcle or are you a man of your word?

Time to put your money where your mouth is Frank.

YOUR CREDABILITY MAY DEPEND ON IT!!!!
Oi Frank!!!!!!!! Where the hell are you man? You started this ball rolling. Now your silence is DEAFENING!!!!! Was that just an idle threat to bring in the Serious Fraud Office at the beginning of this particular debarcle or are you a man of your word? Time to put your money where your mouth is Frank. YOUR CREDABILITY MAY DEPEND ON IT!!!! Jimrob

7:00am Wed 10 Oct 12

ArdalMcFardle says...

Positive thinker wrote:
These councillors are thick skinned or
find all the blogs posted laughable
Don't forget "thick headed"
[quote][p][bold]Positive thinker[/bold] wrote: These councillors are thick skinned or find all the blogs posted laughable[/p][/quote]Don't forget "thick headed" ArdalMcFardle

7:03am Wed 10 Oct 12

ArdalMcFardle says...

Jimrob wrote:
Oi Frank!!!!!!!!

Where the hell are you man?

You started this ball rolling. Now your silence is DEAFENING!!!!!

Was that just an idle threat to bring in the Serious Fraud Office at the beginning of this particular debarcle or are you a man of your word?

Time to put your money where your mouth is Frank.

YOUR CREDABILITY MAY DEPEND ON IT!!!!
Frank thinks everything is hunky dory, he once again has fallen for the spin and I quote "already the Council is unrecognisable compared to its former self"

What pray does the ghoulish one base this on please ??

No Frank , the inside view is it's in complete meltdown and the bullying and spin is getting worse.
[quote][p][bold]Jimrob[/bold] wrote: Oi Frank!!!!!!!! Where the hell are you man? You started this ball rolling. Now your silence is DEAFENING!!!!! Was that just an idle threat to bring in the Serious Fraud Office at the beginning of this particular debarcle or are you a man of your word? Time to put your money where your mouth is Frank. YOUR CREDABILITY MAY DEPEND ON IT!!!![/p][/quote]Frank thinks everything is hunky dory, he once again has fallen for the spin and I quote "already the Council is unrecognisable compared to its former self" What pray does the ghoulish one base this on please ?? No Frank , the inside view is it's in complete meltdown and the bullying and spin is getting worse. ArdalMcFardle

8:20am Wed 10 Oct 12

hobroW says...

the second whistleblower is in hospital. he is a key witness. delpendant on his condition the employment tribunal may be postponed. the tribunal is listed nigel hobro v enterprise solutions (nw) ltd aka wirralbiz.it is listed at family courts Vernon street.

i will tell you today whether it be cancelled.

George Monbiot of the Guardian quite astutely declares that evil results from the sum of many private interests moving in the same direction. Ian Kershaw in "hitler" biography rather encapsulates it with his notion "Working towards the Fuhrer" which he gleaned from an address of a median ranked Berlin civil servant to other civil servants in 1933.
the second whistleblower is in hospital. he is a key witness. delpendant on his condition the employment tribunal may be postponed. the tribunal is listed nigel hobro v enterprise solutions (nw) ltd aka wirralbiz.it is listed at family courts Vernon street. i will tell you today whether it be cancelled. George Monbiot of the Guardian quite astutely declares that evil results from the sum of many private interests moving in the same direction. Ian Kershaw in "hitler" biography rather encapsulates it with his notion "Working towards the Fuhrer" which he gleaned from an address of a median ranked Berlin civil servant to other civil servants in 1933. hobroW

9:17am Wed 10 Oct 12

Ben Beaconsfield says...

I used the "working towards the Fuhrer" analogy in this regard some time ago, hobroW (that's not an attempt at one-upmanship but an acknowledgement of your depth of knowledge, by the way). Glad somebody finally agrees. It fits like a glove where Wirral Borough Council is concerned.
I used the "working towards the Fuhrer" analogy in this regard some time ago, hobroW (that's not an attempt at one-upmanship but an acknowledgement of your depth of knowledge, by the way). Glad somebody finally agrees. It fits like a glove where Wirral Borough Council is concerned. Ben Beaconsfield

10:14am Wed 10 Oct 12

montague1 says...

This also illustrates just how astute many of the genuinely hard working and dedicated "ordinary" and honest members of staff in DASS are.
Many have referred to some senior
officers as The Commandant, The Obergrupenfrau, Herr this and Herr that,
for a very long time!.
Many also feel that they have been bullied in ways the Nazis could have learned a great deal.
This also illustrates just how astute many of the genuinely hard working and dedicated "ordinary" and honest members of staff in DASS are. Many have referred to some senior officers as The Commandant, The Obergrupenfrau, Herr this and Herr that, for a very long time!. Many also feel that they have been bullied in ways the Nazis could have learned a great deal. montague1

11:17am Wed 10 Oct 12

Haddy Nuff says...

110 comments and most appear to be asking for transparency in these issues.

Why aren't they following procedures for corruption investigates or whistleblower protocol?

After this history of this council and their inabilities they still can't seem to get it right!

Said it before and will say it again... Sack all management, no payoffs, no sidestepping, and reinterview for each vacancy with members of the public on each hiring board!

I agree with PeteSheff... Time to come clean, sweep them out and start afresh, new management, new staff, and new policies to avoid such covert dealings!

Transparency is an absolute must when spending public funds. Should be the basis of all procedures. Reveal it all now and let the residents decide who they want in charge before the vote.
110 comments and most appear to be asking for transparency in these issues. Why aren't they following procedures for corruption investigates or whistleblower protocol? After this history of this council and their inabilities they still can't seem to get it right! Said it before and will say it again... Sack all management, no payoffs, no sidestepping, and reinterview for each vacancy with members of the public on each hiring board! I agree with PeteSheff... Time to come clean, sweep them out and start afresh, new management, new staff, and new policies to avoid such covert dealings! Transparency is an absolute must when spending public funds. Should be the basis of all procedures. Reveal it all now and let the residents decide who they want in charge before the vote. Haddy Nuff

11:46am Wed 10 Oct 12

PaulCa says...

montague1 wrote:
This also illustrates just how astute many of the genuinely hard working and dedicated "ordinary" and honest members of staff in DASS are.
Many have referred to some senior
officers as The Commandant, The Obergrupenfrau, Herr this and Herr that,
for a very long time!.
Many also feel that they have been bullied in ways the Nazis could have learned a great deal.
Bad analogy Montague1. Unless there are individuals who've lodged current grievances or have whistleblown, from here, the staff you refer to appear as bystanders, complaining in private, whilst staying safe beneath the parapet. I don't think there'll be much sympathy from certain quarters.

Put yourself in the shoes of any of the known whistleblowers. They went through hell, had their health and family lives trashed, their income & livelihoods removed. Then read your contribution again.

Do you really believe staff who lay supine and don't act on or speak up about the abuse of vulnerable people are "astute" or "honest"?

Why are they content to stay and remain complicit? Why are they not in touch with the authorities, and when that fails, the press?
[quote][p][bold]montague1[/bold] wrote: This also illustrates just how astute many of the genuinely hard working and dedicated "ordinary" and honest members of staff in DASS are. Many have referred to some senior officers as The Commandant, The Obergrupenfrau, Herr this and Herr that, for a very long time!. Many also feel that they have been bullied in ways the Nazis could have learned a great deal.[/p][/quote]Bad analogy Montague1. Unless there are individuals who've lodged current grievances or have whistleblown, from here, the staff you refer to appear as bystanders, complaining in private, whilst staying safe beneath the parapet. I don't think there'll be much sympathy from certain quarters. Put yourself in the shoes of any of the known whistleblowers. They went through hell, had their health and family lives trashed, their income & livelihoods removed. Then read your contribution again. Do you really believe staff who lay supine and don't act on or speak up about the abuse of vulnerable people are "astute" or "honest"? Why are they content to stay and remain complicit? Why are they not in touch with the authorities, and when that fails, the press? PaulCa

12:59pm Wed 10 Oct 12

montague1 says...

With respect PaulCa, wait and see!.
With respect PaulCa, wait and see!. montague1

1:27pm Wed 10 Oct 12

PeteSheff says...

I hear a whistle being blown.
I hear a whistle being blown. PeteSheff

2:01pm Wed 10 Oct 12

montague1 says...

Your hearing is excellent PeteSheff !!.
You may recall that I recently posted that the so called "light at the end of the tunnel" just might be the lights of a very fast, oncoming train?.
Stand well back!.
Your hearing is excellent PeteSheff !!. You may recall that I recently posted that the so called "light at the end of the tunnel" just might be the lights of a very fast, oncoming train?. Stand well back!. montague1

2:17pm Wed 10 Oct 12

niggle rumps says...

montague1 wrote:
Your hearing is excellent PeteSheff !!. You may recall that I recently posted that the so called "light at the end of the tunnel" just might be the lights of a very fast, oncoming train?. Stand well back!.
The light at the end of the tunnel has been turned off due to budget cuts
[quote][p][bold]montague1[/bold] wrote: Your hearing is excellent PeteSheff !!. You may recall that I recently posted that the so called "light at the end of the tunnel" just might be the lights of a very fast, oncoming train?. Stand well back!.[/p][/quote]The light at the end of the tunnel has been turned off due to budget cuts niggle rumps

4:23pm Wed 10 Oct 12

uncatom says...

Perhaps it would be nice to publish a breakdown of the projected one million figure quoted that we have to pay to sack an employee found guilty of misconduct, I believe a disiplinary hearing would find that the four would be guilty of gross misconduct and liable to dismissal after an unsuccessful appeal without any benefits so were does the quoted million come from?
Perhaps it would be nice to publish a breakdown of the projected one million figure quoted that we have to pay to sack an employee found guilty of misconduct, I believe a disiplinary hearing would find that the four would be guilty of gross misconduct and liable to dismissal after an unsuccessful appeal without any benefits so were does the quoted million come from? uncatom

6:06pm Wed 10 Oct 12

council officer says...

PaulCa wrote:
montague1 wrote:
This also illustrates just how astute many of the genuinely hard working and dedicated "ordinary" and honest members of staff in DASS are.
Many have referred to some senior
officers as The Commandant, The Obergrupenfrau, Herr this and Herr that,
for a very long time!.
Many also feel that they have been bullied in ways the Nazis could have learned a great deal.
Bad analogy Montague1. Unless there are individuals who've lodged current grievances or have whistleblown, from here, the staff you refer to appear as bystanders, complaining in private, whilst staying safe beneath the parapet. I don't think there'll be much sympathy from certain quarters.

Put yourself in the shoes of any of the known whistleblowers. They went through hell, had their health and family lives trashed, their income & livelihoods removed. Then read your contribution again.

Do you really believe staff who lay supine and don't act on or speak up about the abuse of vulnerable people are "astute" or "honest"?

Why are they content to stay and remain complicit? Why are they not in touch with the authorities, and when that fails, the press?
C'mon PaulCa, that's a bit below the belt. You know how it operates! Lots of these good people have families and commitments like the rest of society. They have seen how others have been treated so why risk all that when nothing will change? They ask themselves do they want to put everything they have worked for in jeopardy and probably say no! And who can blame them? There is good people in the council but it is controlled by the most senior few. They are to blame, not the junior staff. Btw, not seen any change despite Klonowski, Frater, Burgess, Morton, Field et al!!!
[quote][p][bold]PaulCa[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]montague1[/bold] wrote: This also illustrates just how astute many of the genuinely hard working and dedicated "ordinary" and honest members of staff in DASS are. Many have referred to some senior officers as The Commandant, The Obergrupenfrau, Herr this and Herr that, for a very long time!. Many also feel that they have been bullied in ways the Nazis could have learned a great deal.[/p][/quote]Bad analogy Montague1. Unless there are individuals who've lodged current grievances or have whistleblown, from here, the staff you refer to appear as bystanders, complaining in private, whilst staying safe beneath the parapet. I don't think there'll be much sympathy from certain quarters. Put yourself in the shoes of any of the known whistleblowers. They went through hell, had their health and family lives trashed, their income & livelihoods removed. Then read your contribution again. Do you really believe staff who lay supine and don't act on or speak up about the abuse of vulnerable people are "astute" or "honest"? Why are they content to stay and remain complicit? Why are they not in touch with the authorities, and when that fails, the press?[/p][/quote]C'mon PaulCa, that's a bit below the belt. You know how it operates! Lots of these good people have families and commitments like the rest of society. They have seen how others have been treated so why risk all that when nothing will change? They ask themselves do they want to put everything they have worked for in jeopardy and probably say no! And who can blame them? There is good people in the council but it is controlled by the most senior few. They are to blame, not the junior staff. Btw, not seen any change despite Klonowski, Frater, Burgess, Morton, Field et al!!! council officer

6:10pm Wed 10 Oct 12

council officer says...

montague1 wrote:
Your hearing is excellent PeteSheff !!.
You may recall that I recently posted that the so called "light at the end of the tunnel" just might be the lights of a very fast, oncoming train?.
Stand well back!.
I for one hope and pray it is heading straight for Wallasey Town Hall - taxi for Spinderella!
[quote][p][bold]montague1[/bold] wrote: Your hearing is excellent PeteSheff !!. You may recall that I recently posted that the so called "light at the end of the tunnel" just might be the lights of a very fast, oncoming train?. Stand well back!.[/p][/quote]I for one hope and pray it is heading straight for Wallasey Town Hall - taxi for Spinderella! council officer

8:34pm Wed 10 Oct 12

montague1 says...

Would that be "Frau Spinderella" by any chance Council officer?.
Would that be "Frau Spinderella" by any chance Council officer?. montague1

9:58pm Wed 10 Oct 12

PeteSheff says...

Any hint at what this one may be about?
Any hint at what this one may be about? PeteSheff

11:03am Thu 11 Oct 12

hobroW says...

the tribunal is postponed until Mr griffiths is recovered.

The independent auditor will be appointed early next week says the temporary Head of Internal Audit (previous incumbent retired at end September after producing report on ISUS BIG fund whistleblows "not fit for purpose")

I expect the noisy refrain "I voss only obeying orders!" when the investigation commences. I have enquired if the auditor external MUST observe the councils whistleblowing policy.

By the way anyone want a copy of the same
the tribunal is postponed until Mr griffiths is recovered. The independent auditor will be appointed early next week says the temporary Head of Internal Audit (previous incumbent retired at end September after producing report on ISUS BIG fund whistleblows "not fit for purpose") I expect the noisy refrain "I voss only obeying orders!" when the investigation commences. I have enquired if the auditor external MUST observe the councils whistleblowing policy. By the way anyone want a copy of the same hobroW

11:03am Thu 11 Oct 12

hobroW says...

the tribunal is postponed until Mr griffiths is recovered.

The independent auditor will be appointed early next week says the temporary Head of Internal Audit (previous incumbent retired at end September after producing report on ISUS BIG fund whistleblows "not fit for purpose")

I expect the noisy refrain "I voss only obeying orders!" when the investigation commences. I have enquired if the auditor external MUST observe the councils whistleblowing policy.

By the way anyone want a copy of the same
the tribunal is postponed until Mr griffiths is recovered. The independent auditor will be appointed early next week says the temporary Head of Internal Audit (previous incumbent retired at end September after producing report on ISUS BIG fund whistleblows "not fit for purpose") I expect the noisy refrain "I voss only obeying orders!" when the investigation commences. I have enquired if the auditor external MUST observe the councils whistleblowing policy. By the way anyone want a copy of the same hobroW

11:04am Thu 11 Oct 12

hobroW says...

the tribunal is postponed until Mr griffiths is recovered.

The independent auditor will be appointed early next week says the temporary Head of Internal Audit (previous incumbent retired at end September after producing report on ISUS BIG fund whistleblows "not fit for purpose")

I expect the noisy refrain "I voss only obeying orders!" when the investigation commences. I have enquired if the auditor external MUST observe the councils whistleblowing policy.

By the way anyone want a copy of the same
the tribunal is postponed until Mr griffiths is recovered. The independent auditor will be appointed early next week says the temporary Head of Internal Audit (previous incumbent retired at end September after producing report on ISUS BIG fund whistleblows "not fit for purpose") I expect the noisy refrain "I voss only obeying orders!" when the investigation commences. I have enquired if the auditor external MUST observe the councils whistleblowing policy. By the way anyone want a copy of the same hobroW

2:06pm Thu 11 Oct 12

hobroW says...

council officer wrote:
PaulCa wrote:
montague1 wrote:
This also illustrates just how astute many of the genuinely hard working and dedicated "ordinary" and honest members of staff in DASS are.
Many have referred to some senior
officers as The Commandant, The Obergrupenfrau, Herr this and Herr that,
for a very long time!.
Many also feel that they have been bullied in ways the Nazis could have learned a great deal.
Bad analogy Montague1. Unless there are individuals who've lodged current grievances or have whistleblown, from here, the staff you refer to appear as bystanders, complaining in private, whilst staying safe beneath the parapet. I don't think there'll be much sympathy from certain quarters.

Put yourself in the shoes of any of the known whistleblowers. They went through hell, had their health and family lives trashed, their income & livelihoods removed. Then read your contribution again.

Do you really believe staff who lay supine and don't act on or speak up about the abuse of vulnerable people are "astute" or "honest"?

Why are they content to stay and remain complicit? Why are they not in touch with the authorities, and when that fails, the press?
C'mon PaulCa, that's a bit below the belt. You know how it operates! Lots of these good people have families and commitments like the rest of society. They have seen how others have been treated so why risk all that when nothing will change? They ask themselves do they want to put everything they have worked for in jeopardy and probably say no! And who can blame them? There is good people in the council but it is controlled by the most senior few. They are to blame, not the junior staff. Btw, not seen any change despite Klonowski, Frater, Burgess, Morton, Field et al!!!
All well and good but look at it another way.

Whistleblowers tend to stand alone. If co-workers had the bottle and stood with them whistleblowing would not be necessary. Had a few more people stood with me rather than mumble in the sidelines then any malfeasance wiould have been stopped dead. Workers of the world UNITE you have nothing to lose but your chains
[quote][p][bold]council officer[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]PaulCa[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]montague1[/bold] wrote: This also illustrates just how astute many of the genuinely hard working and dedicated "ordinary" and honest members of staff in DASS are. Many have referred to some senior officers as The Commandant, The Obergrupenfrau, Herr this and Herr that, for a very long time!. Many also feel that they have been bullied in ways the Nazis could have learned a great deal.[/p][/quote]Bad analogy Montague1. Unless there are individuals who've lodged current grievances or have whistleblown, from here, the staff you refer to appear as bystanders, complaining in private, whilst staying safe beneath the parapet. I don't think there'll be much sympathy from certain quarters. Put yourself in the shoes of any of the known whistleblowers. They went through hell, had their health and family lives trashed, their income & livelihoods removed. Then read your contribution again. Do you really believe staff who lay supine and don't act on or speak up about the abuse of vulnerable people are "astute" or "honest"? Why are they content to stay and remain complicit? Why are they not in touch with the authorities, and when that fails, the press?[/p][/quote]C'mon PaulCa, that's a bit below the belt. You know how it operates! Lots of these good people have families and commitments like the rest of society. They have seen how others have been treated so why risk all that when nothing will change? They ask themselves do they want to put everything they have worked for in jeopardy and probably say no! And who can blame them? There is good people in the council but it is controlled by the most senior few. They are to blame, not the junior staff. Btw, not seen any change despite Klonowski, Frater, Burgess, Morton, Field et al!!![/p][/quote]All well and good but look at it another way. Whistleblowers tend to stand alone. If co-workers had the bottle and stood with them whistleblowing would not be necessary. Had a few more people stood with me rather than mumble in the sidelines then any malfeasance wiould have been stopped dead. Workers of the world UNITE you have nothing to lose but your chains hobroW

2:49pm Thu 11 Oct 12

PaulCa says...

council officer wrote:
PaulCa wrote:
montague1 wrote:
This also illustrates just how astute many of the genuinely hard working and dedicated "ordinary" and honest members of staff in DASS are.
Many have referred to some senior
officers as The Commandant, The Obergrupenfrau, Herr this and Herr that,
for a very long time!.
Many also feel that they have been bullied in ways the Nazis could have learned a great deal.
Bad analogy Montague1. Unless there are individuals who've lodged current grievances or have whistleblown, from here, the staff you refer to appear as bystanders, complaining in private, whilst staying safe beneath the parapet. I don't think there'll be much sympathy from certain quarters.

Put yourself in the shoes of any of the known whistleblowers. They went through hell, had their health and family lives trashed, their income & livelihoods removed. Then read your contribution again.

Do you really believe staff who lay supine and don't act on or speak up about the abuse of vulnerable people are "astute" or "honest"?

Why are they content to stay and remain complicit? Why are they not in touch with the authorities, and when that fails, the press?
C'mon PaulCa, that's a bit below the belt. You know how it operates! Lots of these good people have families and commitments like the rest of society. They have seen how others have been treated so why risk all that when nothing will change? They ask themselves do they want to put everything they have worked for in jeopardy and probably say no! And who can blame them? There is good people in the council but it is controlled by the most senior few. They are to blame, not the junior staff. Btw, not seen any change despite Klonowski, Frater, Burgess, Morton, Field et al!!!
I don't hit below the belt Council Officer - but I DO hit where it hurts. You are attacking and demeaning whistleblowers by trying to set them apart as somehow "different".

To address your points one by one:

Whistleblowers have families.
Whistleblowers have commitments.
Whistleblowers have witnessed others being savaged, but went with the courage of their convictions.
Whistleblowers have made things progress towards change - Councillor / Senior Officer default setting to resist that change and shake off any responsibility has made progress grindingly and painfully slow.

Whistleblowers on Wirral asked themselves the SAME questions, but could not stand and watch abuse being carried on and vulnerable people suffering - like other complicit parties are doing right now.

Don't lose heart and give up CO. Try to stand tall and proud, like others did.
[quote][p][bold]council officer[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]PaulCa[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]montague1[/bold] wrote: This also illustrates just how astute many of the genuinely hard working and dedicated "ordinary" and honest members of staff in DASS are. Many have referred to some senior officers as The Commandant, The Obergrupenfrau, Herr this and Herr that, for a very long time!. Many also feel that they have been bullied in ways the Nazis could have learned a great deal.[/p][/quote]Bad analogy Montague1. Unless there are individuals who've lodged current grievances or have whistleblown, from here, the staff you refer to appear as bystanders, complaining in private, whilst staying safe beneath the parapet. I don't think there'll be much sympathy from certain quarters. Put yourself in the shoes of any of the known whistleblowers. They went through hell, had their health and family lives trashed, their income & livelihoods removed. Then read your contribution again. Do you really believe staff who lay supine and don't act on or speak up about the abuse of vulnerable people are "astute" or "honest"? Why are they content to stay and remain complicit? Why are they not in touch with the authorities, and when that fails, the press?[/p][/quote]C'mon PaulCa, that's a bit below the belt. You know how it operates! Lots of these good people have families and commitments like the rest of society. They have seen how others have been treated so why risk all that when nothing will change? They ask themselves do they want to put everything they have worked for in jeopardy and probably say no! And who can blame them? There is good people in the council but it is controlled by the most senior few. They are to blame, not the junior staff. Btw, not seen any change despite Klonowski, Frater, Burgess, Morton, Field et al!!![/p][/quote]I don't hit below the belt Council Officer - but I DO hit where it hurts. You are attacking and demeaning whistleblowers by trying to set them apart as somehow "different". To address your points one by one: Whistleblowers have families. Whistleblowers have commitments. Whistleblowers have witnessed others being savaged, but went with the courage of their convictions. Whistleblowers have made things progress towards change - Councillor / Senior Officer default setting to resist that change and shake off any responsibility has made progress grindingly and painfully slow. Whistleblowers on Wirral asked themselves the SAME questions, but could not stand and watch abuse being carried on and vulnerable people suffering - like other complicit parties are doing right now. Don't lose heart and give up CO. Try to stand tall and proud, like others did. PaulCa

3:10pm Thu 11 Oct 12

Haddy Nuff says...

Well said PaulCa. Those who knew of the suffering of innocent folk and did nothing are nearly as bad as those who are responsible! Whistleblowers should stand proud!
Well said PaulCa. Those who knew of the suffering of innocent folk and did nothing are nearly as bad as those who are responsible! Whistleblowers should stand proud! Haddy Nuff

3:54pm Thu 11 Oct 12

johnhardaker says...

Paul one of the best so far could not agree with you more, the problem lies with the senior managers & "Directors" who in most cases could not even direct traffic let alone a business as large as wirral council,Also to blame are the 66 overpaid councilors who are not equipped to cope with such a complex task & loose themselves in complex minutes, hold court behind closed doors & agree to large payouts to people who would end up possibly in court or out on their ear without a penny, Remember it is our money they are chucking down the drain not theirs.Council officer I feel sorry for what you have to put up with & i could arrange for a supply of whistles to be made available if need be, the brave members of staff who report the "Goings On" are to be commended .
Paul one of the best so far could not agree with you more, the problem lies with the senior managers & "Directors" who in most cases could not even direct traffic let alone a business as large as wirral council,Also to blame are the 66 overpaid councilors who are not equipped to cope with such a complex task & loose themselves in complex minutes, hold court behind closed doors & agree to large payouts to people who would end up possibly in court or out on their ear without a penny, Remember it is our money they are chucking down the drain not theirs.Council officer I feel sorry for what you have to put up with & i could arrange for a supply of whistles to be made available if need be, the brave members of staff who report the "Goings On" are to be commended . johnhardaker

5:23pm Thu 11 Oct 12

hobroW says...

when the independent auditors report comes out re ISUS and re BIG fund will you all demand heads?

Mine if I am wrong. Officers and others if I am right.

At Germinal 1794 "les indulgents" were guillotined. Unfortunately Danton was in the "fournee" but the majority were swindlers who had raped the French East Indiua Company.Who wants to be Robespierrre for a day? and demand "les tetes".
when the independent auditors report comes out re ISUS and re BIG fund will you all demand heads? Mine if I am wrong. Officers and others if I am right. At Germinal 1794 "les indulgents" were guillotined. Unfortunately Danton was in the "fournee" but the majority were swindlers who had raped the French East Indiua Company.Who wants to be Robespierrre for a day? and demand "les tetes". hobroW

5:23pm Thu 11 Oct 12

hobroW says...

when the independent auditors report comes out re ISUS and re BIG fund will you all demand heads?

Mine if I am wrong. Officers and others if I am right.

At Germinal 1794 "les indulgents" were guillotined. Unfortunately Danton was in the "fournee" but the majority were swindlers who had raped the French East Indiua Company.Who wants to be Robespierrre for a day? and demand "les tetes".
when the independent auditors report comes out re ISUS and re BIG fund will you all demand heads? Mine if I am wrong. Officers and others if I am right. At Germinal 1794 "les indulgents" were guillotined. Unfortunately Danton was in the "fournee" but the majority were swindlers who had raped the French East Indiua Company.Who wants to be Robespierrre for a day? and demand "les tetes". hobroW

5:37pm Thu 11 Oct 12

council officer says...

PaulCa wrote:
council officer wrote:
PaulCa wrote:
montague1 wrote:
This also illustrates just how astute many of the genuinely hard working and dedicated "ordinary" and honest members of staff in DASS are.
Many have referred to some senior
officers as The Commandant, The Obergrupenfrau, Herr this and Herr that,
for a very long time!.
Many also feel that they have been bullied in ways the Nazis could have learned a great deal.
Bad analogy Montague1. Unless there are individuals who've lodged current grievances or have whistleblown, from here, the staff you refer to appear as bystanders, complaining in private, whilst staying safe beneath the parapet. I don't think there'll be much sympathy from certain quarters.

Put yourself in the shoes of any of the known whistleblowers. They went through hell, had their health and family lives trashed, their income & livelihoods removed. Then read your contribution again.

Do you really believe staff who lay supine and don't act on or speak up about the abuse of vulnerable people are "astute" or "honest"?

Why are they content to stay and remain complicit? Why are they not in touch with the authorities, and when that fails, the press?
C'mon PaulCa, that's a bit below the belt. You know how it operates! Lots of these good people have families and commitments like the rest of society. They have seen how others have been treated so why risk all that when nothing will change? They ask themselves do they want to put everything they have worked for in jeopardy and probably say no! And who can blame them? There is good people in the council but it is controlled by the most senior few. They are to blame, not the junior staff. Btw, not seen any change despite Klonowski, Frater, Burgess, Morton, Field et al!!!
I don't hit below the belt Council Officer - but I DO hit where it hurts. You are attacking and demeaning whistleblowers by trying to set them apart as somehow "different".

To address your points one by one:

Whistleblowers have families.
Whistleblowers have commitments.
Whistleblowers have witnessed others being savaged, but went with the courage of their convictions.
Whistleblowers have made things progress towards change - Councillor / Senior Officer default setting to resist that change and shake off any responsibility has made progress grindingly and painfully slow.

Whistleblowers on Wirral asked themselves the SAME questions, but could not stand and watch abuse being carried on and vulnerable people suffering - like other complicit parties are doing right now.

Don't lose heart and give up CO. Try to stand tall and proud, like others did.
Hey PaulCa,

I'm definitely not attacking or demeaning them, honestly. I applaud them but was trying to explain why others don't/wont follow. We all have story to tell and one day I hope to tell mine!

Bet wishes CO
[quote][p][bold]PaulCa[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]council officer[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]PaulCa[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]montague1[/bold] wrote: This also illustrates just how astute many of the genuinely hard working and dedicated "ordinary" and honest members of staff in DASS are. Many have referred to some senior officers as The Commandant, The Obergrupenfrau, Herr this and Herr that, for a very long time!. Many also feel that they have been bullied in ways the Nazis could have learned a great deal.[/p][/quote]Bad analogy Montague1. Unless there are individuals who've lodged current grievances or have whistleblown, from here, the staff you refer to appear as bystanders, complaining in private, whilst staying safe beneath the parapet. I don't think there'll be much sympathy from certain quarters. Put yourself in the shoes of any of the known whistleblowers. They went through hell, had their health and family lives trashed, their income & livelihoods removed. Then read your contribution again. Do you really believe staff who lay supine and don't act on or speak up about the abuse of vulnerable people are "astute" or "honest"? Why are they content to stay and remain complicit? Why are they not in touch with the authorities, and when that fails, the press?[/p][/quote]C'mon PaulCa, that's a bit below the belt. You know how it operates! Lots of these good people have families and commitments like the rest of society. They have seen how others have been treated so why risk all that when nothing will change? They ask themselves do they want to put everything they have worked for in jeopardy and probably say no! And who can blame them? There is good people in the council but it is controlled by the most senior few. They are to blame, not the junior staff. Btw, not seen any change despite Klonowski, Frater, Burgess, Morton, Field et al!!![/p][/quote]I don't hit below the belt Council Officer - but I DO hit where it hurts. You are attacking and demeaning whistleblowers by trying to set them apart as somehow "different". To address your points one by one: Whistleblowers have families. Whistleblowers have commitments. Whistleblowers have witnessed others being savaged, but went with the courage of their convictions. Whistleblowers have made things progress towards change - Councillor / Senior Officer default setting to resist that change and shake off any responsibility has made progress grindingly and painfully slow. Whistleblowers on Wirral asked themselves the SAME questions, but could not stand and watch abuse being carried on and vulnerable people suffering - like other complicit parties are doing right now. Don't lose heart and give up CO. Try to stand tall and proud, like others did.[/p][/quote]Hey PaulCa, I'm definitely not attacking or demeaning them, honestly. I applaud them but was trying to explain why others don't/wont follow. We all have story to tell and one day I hope to tell mine! Bet wishes CO council officer

6:15pm Thu 11 Oct 12

ArdalMcFardle says...

Too many people in the council havent supported these whistleblowers FACT. And I know those who have actively sought to distance themselves from these "pariahs" lest their shiny career gets damaged. So excuse me but I'll save my sympathy for the public, the vulnerable and the whistleblowers, not moaners who do nowt. Martin Niemoller's word should be hung up in every council office as a sober warning from the past
Too many people in the council havent supported these whistleblowers FACT. And I know those who have actively sought to distance themselves from these "pariahs" lest their shiny career gets damaged. So excuse me but I'll save my sympathy for the public, the vulnerable and the whistleblowers, not moaners who do nowt. Martin Niemoller's word should be hung up in every council office as a sober warning from the past ArdalMcFardle

7:17pm Thu 11 Oct 12

MX says...

One day Council Officer you promise you will tell your story and what will that story be called?- "Sniping from the Sidelines"?.
Sorry, but I for one, won't be buying it.
One day Council Officer you promise you will tell your story and what will that story be called?- "Sniping from the Sidelines"?. Sorry, but I for one, won't be buying it. MX

10:07am Fri 12 Oct 12

hobroW says...

Martin Niemoller -ArdleMcardle is right.
They came for communists, homosexuals, clergy etc if you didnt stand up for them then who will stand up for you when they come for you a paraphrase I admit,

Though the parallells seem extravagant they seem only. The truth is the Nazi revolution was rapid. One day Berlin was in a democracy, the next it was in grip pf totalitarian terror. Created by the legitimization of lies, by the complicity of civil servants...Stop the lies now and prevent another slide into ... an even more powerful state with control over all means of communication and absolute surveillance. Again read 1984 Orwell.
Martin Niemoller -ArdleMcardle is right. They came for communists, homosexuals, clergy etc if you didnt stand up for them then who will stand up for you when they come for you a paraphrase I admit, Though the parallells seem extravagant they seem only. The truth is the Nazi revolution was rapid. One day Berlin was in a democracy, the next it was in grip pf totalitarian terror. Created by the legitimization of lies, by the complicity of civil servants...Stop the lies now and prevent another slide into ... an even more powerful state with control over all means of communication and absolute surveillance. Again read 1984 Orwell. hobroW

11:00am Fri 12 Oct 12

Ben Beaconsfield says...

I am going to be incommunicado for some time (that's either on the Costa del Sol or the name of a solitary confinement suite in Walton - you work it out!!).

I just want to wish all those with tribunals pending, all whistleblowers, all innocent but embarrassed Wirral Borough Council employees, all interested posters and, above all, the North West Media Website of the Year (the 'Globe', stupid!!) the very best for the weeks and months ahead as this sordid business continues to unfold.

I can't say anything about the morally bankrupt officers, ex-officers and councillors of Wirral Borough Council, on the advice of my lawyers.....
I am going to be incommunicado for some time (that's either on the Costa del Sol or the name of a solitary confinement suite in Walton - you work it out!!). I just want to wish all those with tribunals pending, all whistleblowers, all innocent but embarrassed Wirral Borough Council employees, all interested posters and, above all, the North West Media Website of the Year (the 'Globe', stupid!!) the very best for the weeks and months ahead as this sordid business continues to unfold. I can't say anything about the morally bankrupt officers, ex-officers and councillors of Wirral Borough Council, on the advice of my lawyers..... Ben Beaconsfield

1:25pm Fri 12 Oct 12

montague1 says...

Your reference to "Sniping from the sidelines" MX, might just be the title of a book you would write yourself!
Pots and kettles come to mind.
Your reference to "Sniping from the sidelines" MX, might just be the title of a book you would write yourself! Pots and kettles come to mind. montague1

2:12pm Fri 12 Oct 12

MX says...

Yes indeed.
Yes indeed. MX

8:18pm Fri 12 Oct 12

council officer says...

MX wrote:
One day Council Officer you promise you will tell your story and what will that story be called?- "Sniping from the Sidelines"?.
Sorry, but I for one, won't be buying it.
Pot, kettle and black MX. You do enough moaning and finger pointing yourself and by your comments you appear to be closer to the action than me, So what's your story? When I tell mine, it not be through the press but though a lawyer!

Best wishes CO
[quote][p][bold]MX[/bold] wrote: One day Council Officer you promise you will tell your story and what will that story be called?- "Sniping from the Sidelines"?. Sorry, but I for one, won't be buying it.[/p][/quote]Pot, kettle and black MX. You do enough moaning and finger pointing yourself and by your comments you appear to be closer to the action than me, So what's your story? When I tell mine, it not be through the press but though a lawyer! Best wishes CO council officer

2:17am Sat 13 Oct 12

montague1 says...

Delighted you recognised the irony in my comment Council officer.
It clearly bypassed MX completely !!.
Keep strong.
Delighted you recognised the irony in my comment Council officer. It clearly bypassed MX completely !!. Keep strong. montague1

7:54am Sat 13 Oct 12

MX says...

a) I have no story b) I don't do irony.
Good luck with that one CO!.
a) I have no story b) I don't do irony. Good luck with that one CO!. MX

10:59am Sat 13 Oct 12

montague1 says...

What is it then MX?. WIND?. !!!!
What is it then MX?. WIND?. !!!! montague1

12:11pm Sat 13 Oct 12

RL 1952 says...

Yet another scandal to hit WBC so where is the serious fraud office where are the government commissioners. For too long it has been proven that CEs, senior officers, councillors and indeed MPs in Wirral are unable or unwilling to act in the best interests of the residents of Wirral and therefore management of Wirral BC must be taken out of their hands it is unfit for purpose in its present form the new CE has proved that he is merely part of the problem not the solution so independant government commissioners must be brought in. Far too much valuable money has been paid to inept senior management by way of a pay offs and enough is enough.
Yet another scandal to hit WBC so where is the serious fraud office where are the government commissioners. For too long it has been proven that CEs, senior officers, councillors and indeed MPs in Wirral are unable or unwilling to act in the best interests of the residents of Wirral and therefore management of Wirral BC must be taken out of their hands it is unfit for purpose in its present form the new CE has proved that he is merely part of the problem not the solution so independant government commissioners must be brought in. Far too much valuable money has been paid to inept senior management by way of a pay offs and enough is enough. RL 1952

12:48pm Sat 13 Oct 12

Cheesy Peas says...

What it is that Anne Hathaway's Catwoman says in the The Dark Knight Rises?

Oh yes.

"There's a storm comin'...."
What it is that Anne Hathaway's Catwoman says in the The Dark Knight Rises? Oh yes. "There's a storm comin'...." Cheesy Peas

5:11pm Sat 13 Oct 12

council officer says...

Hey Cheesy,

Everyone seems to be in the know; whats occurring then? Spill the beans cheese!
Hey Cheesy, Everyone seems to be in the know; whats occurring then? Spill the beans cheese! council officer

1:27am Wed 17 Oct 12

colindyas says...

On the one hand Wirral is seeking public engagement and support to help tackle an alleged £17m over spend, which we are told will soon rise to £100m. Some 1000 people from a borough of 330,000 apparently care enough to engage. The rest apparently don't.
On the other hand Wirral is engaged in "secret council meetings" to pay off senior council officers, accused of wrong doing, whose salaries, pensions and severance awards, come from tax payer revenues. Yet the rationales for making such decisions, were made in a pejorative "Star Chamber" environment, and deemed "to not be in the public interest."
This is immoral in purpose, and verging on the illegal. It suggests a local authority working at the margins of its designated powers, if not beyond. It also shows a complete lack of public respect.
Actions like this explain the lack of public interest in the councils activities, as well as the appalling way in which day to day council operations, communications, and decision making processes are being managed. One in particular affects me, and involves another senior officer.
And all of this is happening in a month where damaging revelations have reached the public domain on the Hillsborough tragedy, Jimmy Saville molestation accusations, and Lance Armstrong doping. In all three examples, so called "untouchables" are feeling the full weight of investigative journalism, community inspired professional politicians, and a remorseful and apologetic judiciary and media.
Surely it cannot be long before Wirral's sad and regrettable mess is exposed in the same way, and one way or another, reach the public domain.
So lets get these circumstances into the public domain by consent, rather then dissent, while this remains possible. Unless of course local councillors themselves, have something to hide, I am sure if the truths comes forward voluntarily, it can only lead to credit.
And one final thing; all those people posting behind pseudonyms, on such important matters, please have the courtesy to use your real names, or you're no better than those you accuse. Unless of course you are a genuine, so called "whistle blower," in which case you should approach the appropriate authority.
Alternatively, if you represent the press you should consider your professional integrity rather than amateur anonymity
On the one hand Wirral is seeking public engagement and support to help tackle an alleged £17m over spend, which we are told will soon rise to £100m. Some 1000 people from a borough of 330,000 apparently care enough to engage. The rest apparently don't. On the other hand Wirral is engaged in "secret council meetings" to pay off senior council officers, accused of wrong doing, whose salaries, pensions and severance awards, come from tax payer revenues. Yet the rationales for making such decisions, were made in a pejorative "Star Chamber" environment, and deemed "to not be in the public interest." This is immoral in purpose, and verging on the illegal. It suggests a local authority working at the margins of its designated powers, if not beyond. It also shows a complete lack of public respect. Actions like this explain the lack of public interest in the councils activities, as well as the appalling way in which day to day council operations, communications, and decision making processes are being managed. One in particular affects me, and involves another senior officer. And all of this is happening in a month where damaging revelations have reached the public domain on the Hillsborough tragedy, Jimmy Saville molestation accusations, and Lance Armstrong doping. In all three examples, so called "untouchables" are feeling the full weight of investigative journalism, community inspired professional politicians, and a remorseful and apologetic judiciary and media. Surely it cannot be long before Wirral's sad and regrettable mess is exposed in the same way, and one way or another, reach the public domain. So lets get these circumstances into the public domain by consent, rather then dissent, while this remains possible. Unless of course local councillors themselves, have something to hide, I am sure if the truths comes forward voluntarily, it can only lead to credit. And one final thing; all those people posting behind pseudonyms, on such important matters, please have the courtesy to use your real names, or you're no better than those you accuse. Unless of course you are a genuine, so called "whistle blower," in which case you should approach the appropriate authority. Alternatively, if you represent the press you should consider your professional integrity rather than amateur anonymity colindyas

9:47am Wed 17 Oct 12

johnhardaker says...

Colindyas,excellent post totally agree with everything you say& as far as hiding behind a pseudonyms I can assure that I have never hidden by a false name & I am John Hardaker & i am not ashamed of posting my own views on this shambolic council & its officers &councilors & have stated publicly that the town hall should be taken over by commissioners the sooner the better for all wirral ratepayers
Colindyas,excellent post totally agree with everything you say& as far as hiding behind a pseudonyms I can assure that I have never hidden by a false name & I am John Hardaker & i am not ashamed of posting my own views on this shambolic council & its officers &councilors & have stated publicly that the town hall should be taken over by commissioners the sooner the better for all wirral ratepayers johnhardaker

2:05pm Wed 17 Oct 12

hobroW says...

my name is Nigel hobro. I am a whistleblower.
My expert witness-I am a qualified accountant of over 30 years experience-was submitted in summer 2011. The revelations were statistical , explicit and not hearsay. However first Invest wirral cleared itself and its operatives, then despite this clearance further pressure led to its referral to Internal Audit in September 2011. The latter did not see fit to ask to interview me so I searched them out seeing them in November 2011. The Head of internal audit was a Beverley edwards who promised to interview staff in Wirralbiz in December 2011. When she turned up in mid-december 2011 she was refused access to staff, accepted this disappeared on sickness leave and resigned from the Council. Her successor Dave Garry worked only 2 days weekly. I asked to meet ihim in January 212 and March 5 2012. The interviews were detailed.
Nothing hapened and emails with more evidence provided him were not read until he in summer 2012 declared he would take no more evidence.Liam Murphy of Daily Post asked council for press statement which declared grandly in april 2012 that the report would be published within a few weeks. Nothing happened!
To my enquiries D Garry replied that the reports were subject to the Right to Reply.Cllr A Jones was intervening on my behalf and accepting the evidence I was providing. In July Merseyside CID accepted there was a prima facie case for fraud. Margaret Hodge MP and chair of Parliamentary cttee for public expenditure intervened resulting in a public email from D Garry to myself where it became obvious he had not properly read my evidence. Volte face he was obliged to consider ALL my evidence by his political masters. In september 2012 just before the Audit and Risk committee met to consider D Garrys report I wrote to Mr Burgess supported by others who had suffered from the ISUS program. Mr timmins , acting head of finance then reviewed D Garrys work , found it scrappy and the conclusions unjustified. The senior leadership , after one year of ineffective follow-up, suppressed the Internal Audit report and proposed the appointment of independent, private auditors to recommence from BASe zero the same investigation. Estimated cost of the same -#50k and meanwhile Mr Garry has resigned and taken his pension.

My name is NIGEL HOBRO and I am proud to be a whistleblower though it has cost me dearly-no employment for 8 months!
my name is Nigel hobro. I am a whistleblower. My expert witness-I am a qualified accountant of over 30 years experience-was submitted in summer 2011. The revelations were statistical , explicit and not hearsay. However first Invest wirral cleared itself and its operatives, then despite this clearance further pressure led to its referral to Internal Audit in September 2011. The latter did not see fit to ask to interview me so I searched them out seeing them in November 2011. The Head of internal audit was a Beverley edwards who promised to interview staff in Wirralbiz in December 2011. When she turned up in mid-december 2011 she was refused access to staff, accepted this disappeared on sickness leave and resigned from the Council. Her successor Dave Garry worked only 2 days weekly. I asked to meet ihim in January 212 and March 5 2012. The interviews were detailed. Nothing hapened and emails with more evidence provided him were not read until he in summer 2012 declared he would take no more evidence.Liam Murphy of Daily Post asked council for press statement which declared grandly in april 2012 that the report would be published within a few weeks. Nothing happened! To my enquiries D Garry replied that the reports were subject to the Right to Reply.Cllr A Jones was intervening on my behalf and accepting the evidence I was providing. In July Merseyside CID accepted there was a prima facie case for fraud. Margaret Hodge MP and chair of Parliamentary cttee for public expenditure intervened resulting in a public email from D Garry to myself where it became obvious he had not properly read my evidence. Volte face he was obliged to consider ALL my evidence by his political masters. In september 2012 just before the Audit and Risk committee met to consider D Garrys report I wrote to Mr Burgess supported by others who had suffered from the ISUS program. Mr timmins , acting head of finance then reviewed D Garrys work , found it scrappy and the conclusions unjustified. The senior leadership , after one year of ineffective follow-up, suppressed the Internal Audit report and proposed the appointment of independent, private auditors to recommence from BASe zero the same investigation. Estimated cost of the same -#50k and meanwhile Mr Garry has resigned and taken his pension. My name is NIGEL HOBRO and I am proud to be a whistleblower though it has cost me dearly-no employment for 8 months! hobroW

2:15pm Wed 17 Oct 12

montague1 says...

Nigel Hobro, you are a hero.

Wish you every success at your Tribunal.
Nigel Hobro, you are a hero. Wish you every success at your Tribunal. montague1

2:32pm Wed 17 Oct 12

johnhardaker says...

Nigel Hobro you deserve a medal for trying to out the corrupt practices that go on behind closed doors in Brighton Street, why cant these people be jailed for what they have done instead they walk away at ratepayers expense, are council officers above the law it would appear so. Globe editor take note make this FRONT PAGE NEWS, REPEAT FRONT PAGE NEWS, the residents of wirral need know.
Nigel Hobro you deserve a medal for trying to out the corrupt practices that go on behind closed doors in Brighton Street, why cant these people be jailed for what they have done instead they walk away at ratepayers expense, are council officers above the law it would appear so. Globe editor take note make this FRONT PAGE NEWS, REPEAT FRONT PAGE NEWS, the residents of wirral need know. johnhardaker

2:49pm Wed 17 Oct 12

montague1 says...

HEAR,HEAR !.
HEAR,HEAR !. montague1

4:55pm Wed 17 Oct 12

Cheesy Peas says...

I see it's just been announced that law boss Bill Norman is off too - with another £150,000.

They really don't give a stuff what taxpayers think, do they?
I see it's just been announced that law boss Bill Norman is off too - with another £150,000. They really don't give a stuff what taxpayers think, do they? Cheesy Peas

6:08pm Wed 17 Oct 12

johnhardaker says...

Globe editor if cheesy is correct for god sake expose these people for what they are to coin a phrase Rats deserting a sinking ship & before the empty the coffers completely .They need to be exposed for what they are it must stop & the sooner the better
Globe editor if cheesy is correct for god sake expose these people for what they are to coin a phrase Rats deserting a sinking ship & before the empty the coffers completely .They need to be exposed for what they are it must stop & the sooner the better johnhardaker
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