UPDATED: Secret meeting allows suspended finance chief to take his pension and retire early (From Wirral Globe)
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UPDATED: Secret meeting allows suspended finance chief to take his pension and go
9:00pm Thursday 11th October 2012 in News By Leigh Marles
Secret meeting allows suspended finance chief to take his pension and retire early
A secret council meeting last night agreed to allow suspended finance director and former acting chief executive Ian Coleman to take his pension early and leave the authority.
The decision was reached as "it would not be in the public interest" to enter into a drawn out legal process.
Mr Coleman was one of four high-ranking council officials suspended from work in the wake of an investigation by local government watchdogs the audit commission.
The inquiry was triggered when a group of whistle-blowers in the highways department raised their concerns with Birkenhead MP Frank Field about the way an "outsourced" contract with the Colas company had been handled.
Their story was revealed exclusively in the Wirral Globe.
The decision has led to a record number of comments on the Globe's website since we exclusively revealed it last week.
Graham Burgess, chief executive of Wirral Council, said today: "At a meeting of the employment and appointments committee [last night] it was agreed that the pension of Ian Coleman would be released, at a cost to the council of £82,528 to be paid over five years.
"This follows the meeting of an all-party investigatory and disciplinary committee, which considered the report of an investigation following Mr Coleman's suspension.
"This cross-party committee agreed that it would not be in the public interest to enter into a protracted legal process, with an uncertain outcome, considering the need to move forward and make new appointments to face the current budget challenge."
Mr Burgess said this process could have taken a considerable amount of time and resulted in costs upwards of £1m to the taxpayer.
He added: "To ensure full transparency the council will publish the reports presented to investigatory and disciplinary committee surrounding the suspended officers at the earliest point that it is legally possible to do so.
"We are not able to comment on the cases of the other suspended officers still under investigation."
The meeting last night at which the decision was reached was declared "exempt" from the press and public - and was so secret that even councillors summoned to attend were not given details of its purpose.
Council leader Cllr Phil Davies told the Globe: "The disciplinary committee had concluded there was not a clear prospect of a successful outcome and that the investigation could have taken up to two years to complete.
"The problem is we have suspended officers sitting at home on full pay and we as a council need to move forward with our management restructuring.
"With the costs forecast to escalate to more than £1m it was a pragmatic decision and I believe it was the right one to make."
Mr Coleman was suspend from work in June along with two other senior officers as the council launched an internal inquiry following the report from the audit commission.
The commission's review was highly-critical about the way the director of highways and technical services, David Green, had handled the "outsourced" maintenance contract with the Colas group.
Auditors said Mr Green, who has been suspended from work since March, had "probably breached" European procurement rules by meeting with a Colas manager during a process when several private sector companies - along with the council's own Direct Labour Organisation - were bidding against each other for the multi-million pound contract.
The inquiry also found councillors had not been kept informed of increasing problems as the contract ran its course nor was their approval sought for £1.4m of extra spending which became necessary as the highway maintenance works progressed.
On the day the auditor's report was published, Frank Field said it had exposed "astonishing basic failings" in the council's governance.
The investigation led to the suspensions of Mr Coleman along with the director of law, HR and asset management, Bill Norman, and deputy director of finance David Taylor-Smith.
Comments(152)
bigfoot
says...
10:07am Thu 4 Oct 12
Has he found another position hence the rapidity of the decision?
ArdalMcFardle
says...
10:17am Thu 4 Oct 12
" hold people accountable?"
Look Burgess, he either did wrong or he didn't - don't hide behind the public interest and the need to " move forward " We have heard it all before, it's cowardly it's crass and it means you are hewn from the same diseased tree as those who have gone before. Nothing ever changes in the crazy demented world of WBC - This council genuinely makes me feel physically sick.
What did Jeff Green say "Over my dead body" ? Has somebody summoned a mortician to West Kirby
PeteSheff
says...
10:30am Thu 4 Oct 12
Openness
Holders of public office should be as open as possible about all the decisions and actions that they take. They should give reasons for their decisions and restrict information only when the wider public interest clearly demands.
WBC is a is riddle of malfeasance, wrapped in a mystery compromise agreement, inside an enigma of a refused FOI request.
Objectivity
In carrying out public business, including making public appointments, awarding contracts, or recommending individuals for rewards and benefits, holders of public office should make choices on merit.
The rewards are many to those who acted without merit, breaking the law, acting illegally and discriminating against the vulnerable making their own rules up as they went along...
Accountability
Holders of public office are accountable for their decisions and actions to the public and must submit themselves to whatever scrutiny is appropriate to their office.
There is no way to dress this up. The running of the council has ended up that it is a one of the poorest performing councils needing LGA intervention on almost every aspect of its insular culture. When intervention does happen to investigate wrongdoing and bring those to account - they walk away at the expense of those whom they have failed patted on the back by those whom represent those whom they failed!
WBC expect people to move on and accept that changes will happen when these actions are rewarding those responsible.
WBC should in their clouded and insular ways at least be able to suspect that most of the complaints by long standing critics are based on the fundamental issue of lack of accountability... the inability to resolve issues as no one is ever held accountable...
How long until the other suspended Directors get similar offers? Maybe it has already happened?
WirralAl
says...
10:57am Thu 4 Oct 12
What message does it send out about being a senior officer at Wirral Council.
You can do what ever you want and the worse that will happen is you will get a tidy some bunged into your pension pot.
These people who have been suspended should be sacked and NOT A PENNY should be put into a pension pot or compromise agreement.
Is it Public Interest or what do the councillors want to avoid? Will it expose there failings?????.
Yet again another so called incompetent senior officer gets off without being held accountable.
You bang on about having to save money. No wounder when this council keep giving people pay off's
If someone cheats the benefits system rightfully they are held accountable and face the consequences.
If a senior officer of this council fails or gets suspended they get a nice pay off.
When a criminal is facing charges for theft for a bottle of Whiskey they go to court all we all have to pay the costs which are 100's times the cost of the loss.
This is called justice and the hope is it prevents others.
When a senior member of a coucil is a suspect of wrong doing YOU let them off the hook and pay a fortune to their pension fund and they walk away.
Is this justice? Will it encourage others not to follow?
If I protest and don't pay my council tax I will go to court and if I still do not pay I will eventually go to prison.
What message are you sending out to the people who pay the coucil tax?
One rule for us and one rule for you!!
Not justice at all. you have set a precedent for all others in senior positions and it is totally crass and wrong in every way possible.
Shame on you all.
PeteSheff
says...
11:08am Thu 4 Oct 12
10:57am Thu 4 Oct 12
'Shame on you all.'
I think the idea of public servant is being missed by WBC.
I agree and would advise everyone in agreement to post a similar statement.
ArdalMcFardle
says...
11:10am Thu 4 Oct 12
I have absolutely no confidence in Burgess, he's another SOLACE drone and as we know they look after their own
Ben Beaconsfield
says...
11:13am Thu 4 Oct 12
Where's the accountability in this?
"Not be in the public interest" to enter into a drawn out legal process ?
One law for this man, another law for Burglar Bill or Mugger Murphy?
This now convinces me that some senior councillors are using this process as a cover-up for their own neglectful culpability.
Shame on them.
Cheesy Peas
says...
11:16am Thu 4 Oct 12
Since the Adult Social Services and Highways departmental whistleblowing scandals have arisen, the senior officers to leave with their silver-plated pensions topped up now are:
Steve Maddox, former chief executive
Jim Wilkie, former chief executive
Ian Coleman, former acting chief executive and director of finance
Kevin Miller, former director of adult social services
John Webb, former director of adult social services
Howard Cooper, former acting director of adult social services
Plus the two senior DASS managers who walked away with their cheques and compromise agreements in January 24 hours before the damning Klonowski report was part-published.
And now for the number of ANY council employees, senior or otherwise, to be thus far held accountable for any of these scandals?
NONE.
The abnormal Wirral Council races on at full pace. "Moving forward" - and never, ever, dealing with the issues.
Burgess is clearly the stooge the old guard were after.
Ben Beaconsfield
says...
11:25am Thu 4 Oct 12
Local councillors release joint all-party statement saying:
"All this happened on our watch. We humbly apologise to the voters of Wirral for failing in our duty to scrutinise the activities of senior council officials or to hold them to account."
"As a result of our collective failure, we have decided not to seek re-election, in order to make way for others who might place greater importance on scrutiny/accountabil
ity and less on party political dogma/self-promotion
."
MORE BREAKING NEWS:
Pigs spotted flying over Wallasey Town Hall.
Cheesy Peas
says...
11:51am Thu 4 Oct 12
If council leader Phil Davies had any teeth he'd haul Burgess back from his holiday - taken after barely warming his seat - and ask him what the hell is going on.
But no.
"Let's just carry on as we were, Klonowski notwithstanding. Discipline no one. Just sign the cheques instead. So much easier. And "reputations" intact. Phew. We've sort of got away it until next time."
Note the dearth of comment from not a single one of our elected representatives, too - you are all an absolute disgrace.
Ben Beaconsfield
says...
12:06pm Thu 4 Oct 12
Cheesy Peas wrote:Hear hear. Spot on again, Cheesy Peas.
This is all about that most corrosive of aspects to modern public services - the unstoppable rise of people employed on vast salaries to steer an organisation's "reputation management".
If council leader Phil Davies had any teeth he'd haul Burgess back from his holiday - taken after barely warming his seat - and ask him what the hell is going on.
But no.
"Let's just carry on as we were, Klonowski notwithstanding. Discipline no one. Just sign the cheques instead. So much easier. And "reputations" intact. Phew. We've sort of got away it until next time."
Note the dearth of comment from not a single one of our elected representatives, too - you are all an absolute disgrace.
"We've sort of got away with it. Trebles all round."
Funny, isn't it, how local politicians can go quiet when they want to be, yet very vociferous at other (election) times.
Example: Jeff Green - last posting on his website was 22nd May 2012
Example: Chris Blakeley: last posting on his website was 27th July (though he did manage to give us a running commentary on Twitter about his holiday on the Costa del Sol and subsequently played the role of a food critic in relation to a popular Wirral pub)
Example: Ian Lewis - ex councillor, and a party publicist of breathtaking proportions, who, since he lost his seat has taken the unprecedented move of closing his website down to the general public.
As it happens, these are all Tories. That's because the local Conservatives are past masters at spin. Remember their election slogan: "All the year round, not just at election time"? Another gimmick for the dustbin?
Come on, Cllrs Green and Blakeley - and, for that matter Cllrs Davies and Foulkes and Cllr Harney - let's be hearing from you on this matter. Don't be shy - pretend there's an election on....
johnbrace
says...
12:07pm Thu 4 Oct 12
The truth of the matter is that below the Chief Officers in each department were layers of middle management, (which if my reading of the AKA report is correct and the earlier corporate governance report which described cultural issues across the authority), is in that murky area where nobody really knows much about what's going on apart from the staff directly involved, and seems to where a lot of the more recent screw-ups originate. Hence the desire for the three super-directors, who are either going to end up being the three musketeers, the three amigos or the three stooges.
I'm not saying Chief Officers shouldn't get blamed for failings in their department, but obviously in this case Wirral Council seem to be concerned about their dirty laundry being aired in public in court in the full glare of the public and press (who have absolute protection from lawsuits when making contemporary reports on court cases). What's changed eh?
WDav87
says...
12:10pm Thu 4 Oct 12
They're all scum.
Inniebear
says...
12:18pm Thu 4 Oct 12
Spiffy
says...
12:22pm Thu 4 Oct 12
WDav87 wrote:Nooooo....you MUST vote. Far too many people who lived and died way before many of us were even born fought for The Right to a precious vote.
I've always been taught to vote in every election. However in the case of any future WBC elections, how strong a message would a non-existant turnout be?
They're all scum.
...
It is the ONLY chance you have to make your feelings about what your councillors or politicians do on your behalf absolutely clear with any chance of them taking any notice.
...
It's simple enough to just stick your cross in a different box each time. Just do your research on each candidate....google is your friend and there's never been a time before when we have had so much access to so much information no matter how hard they try to keep it from us.
...
And please...if you have them....teach your children to act accordingly to at least try and safeguard their own futures.
...
Knowledge is power...and so is that one little cross on a bit of paper....use it !!!
...
Lecture over...sorry :)
Ben Beaconsfield
says...
12:26pm Thu 4 Oct 12
Spiffy
says...
12:38pm Thu 4 Oct 12
Ben Beaconsfield wrote:Shush now...you're going to ruin my reputation... ;)
Spiffy: This is the second time in five minutes - spot on again.
No.9
says...
12:50pm Thu 4 Oct 12
ArdalMcFardle wrote:Spot on! Always thought Michael Frater was damage limitation and now this! Solace recommend and advise councils on who to employ at senior level as well as how much they should be paid. Job-hoppers in this clique do very nicely indeed. It would be great if we could happily pay them in return for a job well done and refuse to pay when they don't deliver (as is normal in commerce) rather than them demanding our money under threat then squandering it as they please.
This is what your taxes go on folks, protecting the incompetent, hiding wrongdoing and rewarding failure . In public life if you reach a certain level and are in the right clique you are pretty much untouchable
I have absolutely no confidence in Burgess, he's another SOLACE drone and as we know they look after their own
unbeleivable
says...
12:52pm Thu 4 Oct 12
Cheesy Peas
says...
1:23pm Thu 4 Oct 12
Why would it cost £1m - or even £2m - in legal costs against one man?
He's not an oligarch, he's a bl00dy civil servant!
The council loves throwing these barmy figures around without setting out how they would come about.
Yet more muddying of the waters to keep the plebs at bay.
Is there anyone in Brighton Street capable of giving a straight answer?
hobroW
says...
1:24pm Thu 4 Oct 12
The non-production of a report for one full year and its being officially termed "unfit for purpose" see liverpool daily post this week
the case has been dragging on since april 2011 Internal audit receiving it in September 2011.
Uncharitable persons might wonder why a BIG four firm of accountants must now expensively cover the same ground to report perhaps in a further 3 months
PaulCa
says...
1:35pm Thu 4 Oct 12
Involvement in any abuse swept under the carpet? Check.
Clean bills of health all round? Check.
"Data Privacy" protected? Check.
Future job prospects protected? Check.
Potential abuser AND issuing body nicely gagged within a legal document that can only be prised open by the High Court or by Judicial Review? Check.
Data and Information governance people briefed and on message? Check.
Public interest served? Er... of course!
...................T
hat'll do nicely.
Cheesy Peas
says...
3:20pm Thu 4 Oct 12
Had a look for that story but can't find it?
Can you post a link?
Willow Sherbet
says...
3:58pm Thu 4 Oct 12
This is not the point. If the man has done wrong then he should not get a pat on the back then sent on his way with 82.5k
What planet are you on sham Gamekeeper?
MPs Get the Government in NOW!
Sherbet
BillyBradford
says...
4:14pm Thu 4 Oct 12
hobroW
says...
4:26pm Thu 4 Oct 12
community counts
says...
4:27pm Thu 4 Oct 12
hobroW
says...
4:33pm Thu 4 Oct 12
All the time the internal audit claimed that the report was in draft form ; that it could not be released until the "right to Reply" of parties named was given, that it was thorough and exhaustive....dismis
sed as "unfit for purpose by the new interim director of finance, Peter Timmins.in September 2012
johnhardaker
says...
4:47pm Thu 4 Oct 12
report,& made a dogs breakfast of virtually everything they get their hands on, They are a disgrace & should be replaced by commissioners sooner rather than later in the hope that this lamentable council can be sorted once & for all,I am going to send a copy of this article to the local government ombudsman in the hope that this and other matters may be brought to light,end of rant.
Cheesy Peas
says...
5:00pm Thu 4 Oct 12
Here's how other councils who've seriously c0cked up respond to criticism:
http://www.itv.com/n
ews/2012-10-04/damni
ng-report-forces-chi
ldrens-services-boss
-to-quit/
But on Wirral, we pay them off, trot out phrases like "moving forward", pretend we would have had to spend millions on a two year legal battle (yeah, right), and then dash to the next disaster.
I'll say it again: It's the "reputation management" obsession than runs through WBC like a stick of rock.
And it's damned Uggly, too.
Ben Beaconsfield
says...
5:04pm Thu 4 Oct 12
community counts wrote:The following councillors indicated that they were planning to attend the meeting - the rest is TOP SECRET:-
Which Cllrs made this decision and did any vote against it?
Councillors Paul Doughty,George Davies,Phil Davies,Jeff Green, Mark Johnston, Adrian Jones, PeterKearney,
Ann McLachlan and Lesley Rennie.
johnhardaker
says...
5:47pm Thu 4 Oct 12
Cheesy Peas
says...
5:58pm Thu 4 Oct 12
JADEE1
says...
6:00pm Thu 4 Oct 12
water1lily
says...
6:32pm Thu 4 Oct 12
The message is that whatever you do however corrupt there will be no accountability on Wirral so do what you like .
No matter who is appointed there is no change in this most Rotten of Boroughs.The message is clear that things will never get better.
There is no one with the backbone to take this deceitful self serving shower on, I despair.
DickieBird1939
says...
7:12pm Thu 4 Oct 12
How convenient then for Mr Burgess to be away, when the only possible candidate to refute his claims of £17 million overspend being magically reduced..
I would like Phil Davies to let us know how much money has been salted away to pay off all the other suspended chief officers
hobroW
says...
7:27pm Thu 4 Oct 12
a story of the concealment of incompetence and waste and the use of secrecy to frustrate justice
look in Daily Post for first glimmerings of light on this dark corner
search Nigel hobro on Liverpool Daily Post website
bickyboy
says...
8:14pm Thu 4 Oct 12
I wouldn't like to work at WBC right now and be trying to do a PROPER job: the morale of the average "bog standard" council worker as they watch the corrupt and downright incompetent heading for the hills with their pockets bulging with loot, and see the reputation of the organisation (sic) they work for being dragged through the mud, again and again must be sub-rock- bottom.
It's no longer appropriate to compare these people with pigs feeding at a trough, because such a comparison has now become a gross insult to our porcine friends.
WirralAl
says...
8:16pm Thu 4 Oct 12
Jimrob
says...
8:29pm Thu 4 Oct 12
Over to you then and Plan A.
Call in the Serious Fraud Officers and whilst they are at it, get them to take a look at the New CEO of Wirral too.
Seems that he is ABSOLUTELY NO DIFFERENT FROM HIS PREDECESSOR
The whole lot of em should be investigated now and as usual Frank, they are laughing in YOUR face, not just ours. Time to show us if you are a man or a mouse.
We await your next move Frank. What's it to be, are you one of THEM or one of US????
DickieBird1939
says...
9:21pm Thu 4 Oct 12
hobroW wrote:You better look quickly, because turning off streetlights at night is one of the money saving schemes
dont forget something wicked this way comes
a story of the concealment of incompetence and waste and the use of secrecy to frustrate justice
look in Daily Post for first glimmerings of light on this dark corner
search Nigel hobro on Liverpool Daily Post website
reliant22
says...
9:47pm Thu 4 Oct 12
Every single comment.
However, my observation: Who reads and notes your comments?
Is there anyone capable of addressing the issues you, quite rightly, comment on.
Unfortunately, we, as taxpayers, do not seem to have any power over our elected representatives once they enter the Town Hall.
So. once again, I say, PLEASE, those people who voted at the last LG election and enabled Labour full control, learn a lesson from all of the `secret meetings, looking after their own and generally stuffing up, don`t make the same mistake again.
Comments on these pages can not change anything, voting can.
Willow Sherbet
says...
9:49pm Thu 4 Oct 12
What is next for the other three? Another £500,000-£1,000,00
0+
Cuts next year! What a joke!
Bloggers do you agree? Vote here!
Sherbet.
ArdalMcFardle
says...
10:01pm Thu 4 Oct 12
However over at SOLACE it's Cuban cigars all round as they giggle into their champagne flutes.
Way to go Graham, what a fantastic start you've made! Enjoy your holiday lets hope the Karma police will be giving you a call very soon
LocaLGovwatcher
says...
10:42pm Thu 4 Oct 12
Ben Beaconsfield wrote:Ben, Are you still keeping an open mind on the new CEO?
An absolute scandal.
Where's the accountability in this?
"Not be in the public interest" to enter into a drawn out legal process ?
One law for this man, another law for Burglar Bill or Mugger Murphy?
This now convinces me that some senior councillors are using this process as a cover-up for their own neglectful culpability.
Shame on them.
PeteSheff
says...
10:51pm Thu 4 Oct 12
What happened about first comes the truth and then comes the justice?
Truth?
We are moving on.... nothing to see here.. did something happen in the past? I wouldn't know.. you need to move on.
Justice?
To whom? They have moved on... and they are gagged from saying why.
Ben Beaconsfield
says...
5:10am Fri 5 Oct 12
Regardless of what I think about the new Chief Executive, HE IS NOT IN CHARGE. The councillors - who pick up nearly one million pounds a year between them in allowances and expenses - are ultimately responsible for what happens in Wirral.
The CE can propose something - councillors have the power to veto it.
In fact, in an ideal world, the CE need not be making the running. Councillors could be saying: this is what we want to do, this is the direction in which we want to take Wirral, now go away and come back with proposals to fulfil our ambitions.
At the moment it seems the tail is wagging the dog. Perhaps the dog is too lazy and too fat to be bothered by this. Alternatively, the dog could be frightened of its own tail - something Freud would have a lot to say about.
Willow Sherbet
says...
6:35am Fri 5 Oct 12
Lots more £ to come!
Puppet Gamekeeper.
Ben Beaconsfield
says...
10:05am Fri 5 Oct 12
"Abuse, accountability, apologise, arrogant, asylum, blatant, bog-standard, clouded, concealment, compromise, conspiracy, convenient, corrosive, corrupt, cowardly, crass, crazy, credibility, culpability, damage, demented, dirt, discriminatory, diseased, disgrace, disrepute, enigma, expose, failed, fraud, fritting, gagged, gimmick, has-beens, illegally, inability, incompetent, intervention ,insular, investigate, jokers, justice, lamentable, law-suit, leeches, loot, lunatics, malfeasance, misinformation mud, murder, murky, mystery, neglectful, old-guard, openness, poorest, porcine, pretend, rubbish, rotten, sacked, scandal, scrutiny, secret, self-promotion, self-respect, self-seeking, sham, shame, stooge, sub-rock-bottom, suspended, theft, trough, truth, untouchable, vulnerable, wasted, whistle-blowing, wrong-doing."
(I know I should get out more but, to be fair, it is pouring down outside.)
johnbrace
says...
11:09am Fri 5 Oct 12
The Finance Man left,
Taking the secrets with him,
No one left to say
Which politicians,
are to blame. Just like the West
Coast Main Line contract.
MX
says...
11:46am Fri 5 Oct 12
Expect a press release soon containing the following: " Action taken,behind us, coterminous corporate governance,due process,engagement,f
ramework,going forward,historical,i
nternal processes,joint working,knowledge base,lessons learned,moving forward,normalising,
openness,proactive,q
uantum,synergy,trust ,united ,validation, working together,x-ray transparency,zero cost option.
hobroW
says...
12:13pm Fri 5 Oct 12
hobroW
says...
12:18pm Fri 5 Oct 12
This is not the liberty we hope for, that no grievance ever should arise in the commonwealth. That in this world let no man expect. But when complaints are freely heard, deeply considered and SPEEDILY reformed, then is the utmost bound of civil liberty attained which wise men look for.
Judge WBC by the standards of this sage of the English revolution and see how far short WBC falls
LocaLGovwatcher
says...
3:47pm Fri 5 Oct 12
Perhaps it is appropriate to commit all the councillors and officers to the Battersea Dogs Home. It would be a lot cheaper than paying them off as per the current practice.
Ben Beaconsfield
says...
5:32pm Fri 5 Oct 12
hobroW wrote:I don't imagine Milton had secret Early Voluntary Retirement deals in mind when he penned those words. In fact, he was rather more in favour of Early (and final) Non-Voluntary Retirement in the case of Charles I.
John Milton Areopagitica 1643 for unlicensed printing
This is not the liberty we hope for, that no grievance ever should arise in the commonwealth. That in this world let no man expect. But when complaints are freely heard, deeply considered and SPEEDILY reformed, then is the utmost bound of civil liberty attained which wise men look for.
Judge WBC by the standards of this sage of the English revolution and see how far short WBC falls
Ironically, Milton was also a sort of spin-doctor for the New Commonwealth. He had a fancy title - something along the lines of Foreign Tongues Secretary, a sort of official state translator - but in actual fact he was also a leading propagandist for Cromwell.
Whatever that role involved, I'm sure he brought to it a greater degree of integrity than today's 'Masters of Spin'.
ArdalMcFardle
says...
7:35pm Fri 5 Oct 12
PaulCa
says...
9:19pm Fri 5 Oct 12
It’s a relief that he wasn’t taken on for a whole year, because this would have translated to an annual salary of approximately £313,200.
It’s also a pity he couldn’t respond to an email I sent to him in July and say, “This is nothing to do with me…. this is for the Council to address”
– maybe because this would have flown directly into the face of just about everything those big names in central government e.g. Grant Shapps, Paul Burstow have been shouting… that the LGA has been sent in to sort the place out !
And alas, the Wirral public won’t get any answers from the troubleshooter. Mr Frater has now long packed up and gone…
council officer
says...
12:27am Sat 6 Oct 12
bickyboy wrote:Spot on Bickyboy!
Risky analogy, MX, though I know what you're getting at.
I wouldn't like to work at WBC right now and be trying to do a PROPER job: the morale of the average "bog standard" council worker as they watch the corrupt and downright incompetent heading for the hills with their pockets bulging with loot, and see the reputation of the organisation (sic) they work for being dragged through the mud, again and again must be sub-rock- bottom.
It's no longer appropriate to compare these people with pigs feeding at a trough, because such a comparison has now become a gross insult to our porcine friends.
For the first time in my life I dread going to work. I have always taken great pride in the job I do but working for this council is demoralising.
The worst part of it is working under senior officers who you have no respect for and who have no respect for you! Trying to do your best under these circumstances seriously attacks your mental health.
The culture is horrendous and eats away at your self esteem each and every day.
All I want to do is my best and make a difference but working under senior officers who are clearly not up to the job is so difficult.
It's just a mess and it looks like its going to get a lot worse when this next round of cuts gets going!
hobroW
says...
9:31am Sat 6 Oct 12
he meant what he said, and said what he meant. Obfuscation was the strong point of his satire on the ultimate spin doctor-Satan in Paradise Lost.
Mayhap the Town Hall Brighton Street is Pandemonium
hobroW
says...
9:44am Sat 6 Oct 12
Incest creates monstrosity
WBC promotes from within its own ranks so ultimately a council baths attendant if he sticks at the job for twenty years may rise to chief executive> sin sprouting from the head of satan?
bickyboy
says...
9:59am Sat 6 Oct 12
I urge the Wirral Globe to refuse to print any more fatuous, banal, hindsight-fuelled speeches until our councillors have something new to say; something that actually inspires a little confidence rather than confirming the mediocrity, complacency and impotence of our elected representatives in the face of a seemingly endless series of self-inflicted crises.
uncatom
says...
10:22am Sat 6 Oct 12
Hugo1008
says...
10:32am Sat 6 Oct 12
I would however like to remind each and eveyone there is no WBC Employee no matter what position they hold can make decisions such as we have seen, unless this is backed and fully supported by your local elected councillor, so please do remember it is your elected representative who is fully responsible for the actions of WBC.
When you give them any of them or all 66 of them your support it is you who allows them to make these obscene financial arrangements behind closed doors and in secret.
PaulCa
says...
10:41am Sat 6 Oct 12
Sackings. Now.
Firm, concerted action, designed to send out the message to everybody, from the top of the organisation to the very bottom - that they won't stand for it.
In fact, the same kind of pooled energy, resolution, and a swift call to action that's on display in other situations.... for example, when a lone whistleblower pops up.
PeteSheff
says...
10:42am Sat 6 Oct 12
WBC promotes from within its own ranks so ultimately a council baths attendant if he sticks at the job for twenty years may rise to chief executive> sin sprouting from the head of satan?
This could be part of WBC's new HR motivational training Policy.
'Sin sprouting from the head of satan' could be the name of the CX monthly newsletter.
PeteSheff
says...
10:59am Sat 6 Oct 12
In the real world...If you do something wrong, contrary to policy, making it up as you go along you tend to get disciplined.
In the real world... If you take 'undeclared hospitality', fail to do your job, fail to carry out your duties, fail to adhere to standards, fail to adhere to the law, give public service contracts to your mates, hoodwink the audit commission, mismanage the finances of a local authority, bury the truth, preside over the worst run, scandal laden council in the country criticised over every aspect of its management by every outside agency it ever comes into contact with... You get suspended pending an investigation which would thoroughly investigate wrongdoing and hold you to account for your actions in public office. You lose your job for your failures. You may even have criminal proceedings brought against you...
Or on the Wirral your mates meet in secret and give you £85k and let's not talk about it anymore. See you on the golf course or at the sailing club next week.
Accountability? Outrageous.
hobroW
says...
12:44pm Sat 6 Oct 12
But inward racked with pain"
of Satan ...of Council Leaders?
hobroW
says...
12:48pm Sat 6 Oct 12
and in the deepest deep, a deeper deep
still threatening to open and devour me
To which the Hell I suffer now seems a Heaven"
Satan PL
Tautology
says...
1:34pm Sat 6 Oct 12
hobroW wrote:Do you honestly believe, that there is a vestige of conscience in these people?
"So spake th"Apostate Angel, vaunting aloud
But inward racked with pain"
of Satan ...of Council Leaders?
bickyboy
says...
1:39pm Sat 6 Oct 12
I agree, PaulCa, that action would be far more effective than words. Effective for those of us who pay our council tax and expect competence and accountability; maybe not so for those who think the public are so stupid that a few soundbite-packed Press releases will dissuade the slack jawed plebs from demanding that stones continue to be turned over to reveal the horrors underneath. .
hobroW
says...
2:09pm Sat 6 Oct 12
"Boy, have I got news for you"
This was said with such aplomb that it needs to be studied, along with Goebbels pronouncement "The bigger the lie, the more people believe it", by all spokesmen for WBC!
johnhardaker
says...
3:11pm Sat 6 Oct 12
I don't think in all the years I have ever seen such outrage at what our council is doing & what people are getting away with. Go ahead Ian published & be dammed what do the rest of you think
hobroW
says...
3:18pm Sat 6 Oct 12
community counts
says...
4:41pm Sat 6 Oct 12
PeteSheff
says...
6:15pm Sat 6 Oct 12
hobroW
says...
6:50pm Sat 6 Oct 12
You could use FOI to obtain the report they pulled at last moment by insisting all names be redacted out. You could also FOI the report of P timmins on the Internal audit report.
What I can tell you is that Internal audit operative no longer employed at wirral and his last appearance was at Audit and risk committee at town hall on 21st September where he passed over the replacement of himself by external auditors as being "so they could demonstrate he had done everything by the book and to justify him"...Er NO. The investigation was scrappy and I could prove he did not look at compelling evidence and in one transcript appeared not to have read its contents. This will be a major blot on WBC copybook...wait and see
Willow Sherbet
says...
9:33pm Sat 6 Oct 12
If you all thought this was bad then I seriously suggest you all check this out!
Look at Wirral Leaks now!
http://wirralleaks.t
umblr.com
The Ex-Files Update - Wirral Council
A Puppet Gamekeeper and a bunch of Wild West Rustlers deceiving the herd!
Again to the Wirral MPs get the Commissioners in and get them in fast!
PeteSheff
says...
1:55am Sun 7 Oct 12
6:50pm Sat 6 Oct 12
PeteSheff please note I am the whistleblower on BIG Fund and ISUS.
From May 2012:
http://www.whatdothe
yknow.com/request/wb
c_big_fund_officers_
responsibl#outgoing-
202014
http://www.whatdothe
yknow.com/request/wb
c_big_fund_fraud_inv
estigation#outgoing-
202005
http://www.whatdothe
yknow.com/request/wb
c_big_fund_award_pro
cess_and_c#outgoing-
202007
JohnON
says...
8:19am Sun 7 Oct 12
Democracy at work.
ArdalMcFardle
says...
10:33am Sun 7 Oct 12
That's a very crass and somewhat offensive generalisation. Why not aim your sights at the corrupt Senior officers, or the Councils over paid spin department, who still incredibly have jobs and have GB's ear, rather than bring up the old "undeserving poor" chestnut
johnbrace
says...
11:15am Sun 7 Oct 12
community counts wrote:Thank you for your query, community counts. I wasn't at the meeting, but at my local Area Forum. Generally the minutes would be published to be approved ready for the next E&A meeting, which is provisionally down as the 22nd October 2012.
When are the minutes of this meeting due to be publised, Mr Brace, I am sure you can tell us. Then we can see if any Cllrs had the moral fibre and backbone to side step the party whip and oppose this move.
However with a full Council meeting on 15th October 2012, it's possible they'll be ready by then. Obviously they'll currently be in draft form, which could be requested from the person who took them.
JohnON
says...
12:09pm Sun 7 Oct 12
'Undeserving poor' are your words not mine. I have great sympathy for those of us who fall on hard times and who deserve all the help that's needed but I am less sympathetic towards those who seem to plan both their lifestyle and their future based on the "what can they get out of the system" principle.
To address your second point, as I see it, my only redress is through the ballot box. How otherwise do you suggest I "aim my sights at the corrupt Senior officers, or the Councils over paid spin department.." ??
ArdalMcFardle
says...
2:29pm Sun 7 Oct 12
As to the second point, well, just a few ideas off the top of my head ... you could write to your MP , you could write to your local radio stations/newspapers you could take up "citizen journalism" you could join or form a pressure group, you could submit FOI requests. There are a myriad of ways to put pressure on this disgraceful council. As we have seen on the Wirral, no matter who you elect, the Senior Officers seem to stay in post or get a nice wedge of hush money until the next scandal rears its head. Even now I hear tales of one officer threatening to take people down, if things don't go his way...If I were a Councillor I'd say "do your worst"
PeteSheff
says...
3:31pm Sun 7 Oct 12
This is just the tip of the iceberg, confirmed by those threatening to spill the beans.
For any of this to have real meaning and to be dealt with appropriately and authentically.. First you need the truth... Then you need justice. In local government terms this is transparency and accountability.
All this 'it's getting better' rhetoric is failing to address the fundamentals of officers getting away with breaking the law, discriminating, running a lawless gentlemans club accepting hospitality and awarding contracts to their mates down the sailing club and an unhealthy dose of malfeasance and complete lack of rules, policy and procedure..
The way to address the above is to say these people did wrong, investigate, deal appropriately with it and say how it's been fixed and what to expect in the future.
Paying people off in private meetings unfortunately gives the impression the 'new' regime is colluding with the old, fails to Instill any confidence in the council and shows that they still pick and choose when to follow policy and procedure.
This is what got WBC in the position it is in today by failing to recognise, investigate, discipline and hold to account those involved in serious issues. Leading to a culture of paranoia waiting for the next big secret to come out...
Lets have it all out. Lets see what went on. Lets come clean. Lets see who made mistakes and why. Lets see what's been done to fix it. Lets see the lessons learned.
That's the way forward.
JohnON
says...
4:22pm Sun 7 Oct 12
I used the word 'majority' in the sense that, presumably, the Council reflects the wishes of the majority of those who voted. If it doesn't then there's no point in voting - and I don't agree with that at all !
Other than the difference we have over the term "undeserving poor", I agree 100% with what you say -- well, I would agree with it except the residents & Council of Wirral have been dancing round in the same circle for 13 years or more. It seems pretty obvious to me that no amount of rhetoric or writing to MPs, or newspapers or Private Eye or anyone else is going to make the slightest difference.
There IS only one option that could have an effect and that's the ballot box with a totally unambiguous result..... and that ain't never going to happen.
Hugo1008
says...
9:45am Mon 8 Oct 12
Even the ordinary run of the mill council employees, who have little or no influence on the direction council takes feel deeply ashamed to be even remotly part of the Council Machine.
I have met and talked to quite a few who are truly frightened to speak about the disgraceful activities they are expected to carry out, they fear for their jobs, and have every right to feel this way.
They dozens of them would love to speak up if they felt there was a modicum of protection, they know what is right and what is wrong, but feel powerless to reveal what they witness every day.
My message to them is this, put down what you see as wrong in your work in writing send you messages into your local media, you do not have to reveal your identity.
These letters and notes will be carefully examined, trained investigating reporters will track down the truth from the fiction and you will be at no risk.
The truth will out eventually and all will be revealed.
The good honest and reliable trustworthy staff will soon see the benefits, and your working life will improve dramatically.
niggle rumps
says...
11:44am Mon 8 Oct 12
If this is the case then surely, Logic dictates that you should ask the Tax Payers there opinion?!
I for one as a Wirral resident and tax payer would rather see the likes of Ian Coleman, David Green, Bill Norman and David Taylor-Smith brought to account to make sure that the message sent out is clear, that this sort of thing WILL NOT be tolerated on the Wirral or anywhere else. Giving these type men a payoff and a handshake each time will cost a lot more in the long run than nipping this sort of behavior in the bud NOW! It also sends out the wrong message: Do what you like just make sure your pension will cost slightly less than the investigation
Very disturbing indeed!
ArdalMcFardle
says...
1:06pm Mon 8 Oct 12
An additional severance payment is normally paid to the individual concerned and can be up to 66 weeks of salary. Given that Wirral MBC Chief Officers enjoy a remuneration of over £100k per annum the payoff can be well into six figures."
hobroW
says...
1:59pm Mon 8 Oct 12
PeteSheff wrote:so the public despite FOI requests was kept as ignorant as myself, Nigel Hobro, the whistleblower.
hobroW says...
6:50pm Sat 6 Oct 12
PeteSheff please note I am the whistleblower on BIG Fund and ISUS.
From May 2012:
http://www.whatdothe
yknow.com/request/wb
c_big_fund_officers_
responsibl#outgoing-
202014
http://www.whatdothe
yknow.com/request/wb
c_big_fund_fraud_inv
estigation#outgoing-
202005
http://www.whatdothe
yknow.com/request/wb
c_big_fund_award_pro
cess_and_c#outgoing-
202007
I still know no more than that Internal Audit prepared a report after an "investigation" from September 2011 until September 2012. That report was junnked before publication by Mr Peter Timmins and the Audit committee for Risk and Fraud was told on 20th September that the report would "subsequently" be made!
Quis custodiet custodes ipses?
Who will guard the guardians themselves?
Growl Tiger
says...
2:25pm Mon 8 Oct 12
When residents complained about the increase in traffic and speed the aforementioned officers duped them with broken promises about traffic control and restrictions and by coincidence the same officers dealt with our official complaint. Nearly 4 years on and following an Ombudsman’s critical report the Council has done absolutely nothing to make the road safe again and restore it to its previous tranquillity. Yet Councillors constantly spout on about their desire to encourage healthy outdoor activities and the need for improved road safety – except in this case it would seem.
I moved here from a different part of the country and have been astonished at the goings on in this Council and amazed at its lack of transparency and accountability. I agree with “niggle rumps” that the 4 officers should be brought to task and not allowed to melt away into the ether with their swag bags in their hands. However, can so many Councillors be totally innocent about what has been happening at WBC? If it comes to light that some have been manipulating the system to suit their own agenda then they too should be thoroughly investigated.
David-X
says...
4:50pm Mon 8 Oct 12
Power in defense of freedom is greater than power in behalf of tyranny and oppression. You don't have to be a man to fight for freedom. All you have to do is to be an intelligent human being. Usually when people are sad, they don't do anything. They just cry over their condition. But when they get angry, they bring about a change.
I for one believe that if you give people a thorough understanding of what confronts them and the basic causes that produce it, they'll create their own program, and when the people create a program, you get action.
niggle rumps
says...
4:53pm Mon 8 Oct 12
David-X wrote:Hmmmm, very interesting mr X.
We declare our right on this earth...to be a human being, to be respected as a human being, to be given the rights of a human being in this society, on this earth, in this day, which we intend to bring into existence by any means necessary Power in defense of freedom is greater than power in behalf of tyranny and oppression. You don't have to be a man to fight for freedom. All you have to do is to be an intelligent human being. Usually when people are sad, they don't do anything. They just cry over their condition. But when they get angry, they bring about a change. I for one believe that if you give people a thorough understanding of what confronts them and the basic causes that produce it, they'll create their own program, and when the people create a program, you get action.
What do want - 'ACTION'
When do we want it - 'NOW'
ordinary personn
says...
8:32pm Mon 8 Oct 12
Have no senior officers got any integrity and/or the nous to see what is wrong and the courage to stand up for what is right? Or are they all either spineless or as bad as each other? Are none of them clean enough to whistle blow? Even if they are clean – as Burke said, all that is necessary for the triumph of evil is that good men do nothing - so to me they have been complicit by their silence. I suspect they think that if they keep quiet, keep their heads down and umbrellas up, when the dust clears they’ll be in line for a nice promotion and increase in salary.
Positive thinker
says...
9:46pm Mon 8 Oct 12
niggle rumps
says...
9:19am Tue 9 Oct 12
Positive thinker wrote:So I see that your username is ironic then 'Positive thinker'.
So if the boot was on the other foot,would you all refuse what the chap is getting?
I would hope and assume that most if not all on here wouldn't get into the situation the 'chap' is in, you know corruption, dishonesty, breaking the law etc etc
David-X
says...
9:22am Tue 9 Oct 12
Positive thinker
says...
1:00pm Tue 9 Oct 12
What's that saying? You can't please every one all of the time,if corruption was going on they would all be arrested
hobroW
says...
1:49pm Tue 9 Oct 12
My treatment for providing detailed evidence not hearsay? Hostility and being lied to by Internal Audit. Soon this will explode- mayhap after my employment tribunal on thursday and Friday this week
Oh and the council officers failed to abide by their published Whistleblower rules, there presumably only to impress !
Cheesy Peas
says...
1:49pm Tue 9 Oct 12
Suggest you get hold of a few copies of Private Eye and study the Rotten Boroughs column.
niggle rumps
says...
2:08pm Tue 9 Oct 12
Interesting to see Frank Field’s plans for them:
http://www.frankfiel
d.com/franks-blog/bl
og.aspx?b=174
ArdalMcFardle
says...
4:11pm Tue 9 Oct 12
PeteSheff
says...
5:47pm Tue 9 Oct 12
hobroW wrote:This sounds like it might be quite interesting to the media.
Lets us be clear. I am a whistleblower. I re-iterate that it is accepted that WBC internal audit looked the other way for one year before producing a report that Mr G Burgess described as "Not fit for purpose".
My treatment for providing detailed evidence not hearsay? Hostility and being lied to by Internal Audit. Soon this will explode- mayhap after my employment tribunal on thursday and Friday this week
Oh and the council officers failed to abide by their published Whistleblower rules, there presumably only to impress !
Maybe your experiences of tribunal would be shared to better understand the events?
Dale Street?
Positive thinker
says...
6:35pm Tue 9 Oct 12
find all the blogs posted laughable
PaulCa
says...
10:12pm Tue 9 Oct 12
hobroW wrote:As you stride up the court steps on Thursday to get justice, you may be accosted by a whimpering, salaried council stooge bearing gifts.
Lets us be clear. I am a whistleblower. I re-iterate that it is accepted that WBC internal audit looked the other way for one year before producing a report that Mr G Burgess described as "Not fit for purpose".
My treatment for providing detailed evidence not hearsay? Hostility and being lied to by Internal Audit. Soon this will explode- mayhap after my employment tribunal on thursday and Friday this week
Oh and the council officers failed to abide by their published Whistleblower rules, there presumably only to impress !
If this happens, will you take the public money on offer, or will you have your day in court? The power is in your hands. I can imagine they and potentially "others" have been putting you through hell. Don't let them forget that.
Your case could be the straw to break the camel's back. Please sing loud and clear and post a link to where we can read all the sordid details of your tribunal.
The public interest, for so long sidelined, must be satisfied and accountability is ALL.
Good luck.
Jimrob
says...
12:45am Wed 10 Oct 12
Where the hell are you man?
You started this ball rolling. Now your silence is DEAFENING!!!!!
Was that just an idle threat to bring in the Serious Fraud Office at the beginning of this particular debarcle or are you a man of your word?
Time to put your money where your mouth is Frank.
YOUR CREDABILITY MAY DEPEND ON IT!!!!
ArdalMcFardle
says...
7:00am Wed 10 Oct 12
Positive thinker wrote:Don't forget "thick headed"
These councillors are thick skinned or
find all the blogs posted laughable
ArdalMcFardle
says...
7:03am Wed 10 Oct 12
Jimrob wrote:Frank thinks everything is hunky dory, he once again has fallen for the spin and I quote "already the Council is unrecognisable compared to its former self"
Oi Frank!!!!!!!!
Where the hell are you man?
You started this ball rolling. Now your silence is DEAFENING!!!!!
Was that just an idle threat to bring in the Serious Fraud Office at the beginning of this particular debarcle or are you a man of your word?
Time to put your money where your mouth is Frank.
YOUR CREDABILITY MAY DEPEND ON IT!!!!
What pray does the ghoulish one base this on please ??
No Frank , the inside view is it's in complete meltdown and the bullying and spin is getting worse.
hobroW
says...
8:20am Wed 10 Oct 12
i will tell you today whether it be cancelled.
George Monbiot of the Guardian quite astutely declares that evil results from the sum of many private interests moving in the same direction. Ian Kershaw in "hitler" biography rather encapsulates it with his notion "Working towards the Fuhrer" which he gleaned from an address of a median ranked Berlin civil servant to other civil servants in 1933.
Ben Beaconsfield
says...
9:17am Wed 10 Oct 12
montague1
says...
10:14am Wed 10 Oct 12
Many have referred to some senior
officers as The Commandant, The Obergrupenfrau, Herr this and Herr that,
for a very long time!.
Many also feel that they have been bullied in ways the Nazis could have learned a great deal.
Haddy Nuff
says...
11:17am Wed 10 Oct 12
Why aren't they following procedures for corruption investigates or whistleblower protocol?
After this history of this council and their inabilities they still can't seem to get it right!
Said it before and will say it again... Sack all management, no payoffs, no sidestepping, and reinterview for each vacancy with members of the public on each hiring board!
I agree with PeteSheff... Time to come clean, sweep them out and start afresh, new management, new staff, and new policies to avoid such covert dealings!
Transparency is an absolute must when spending public funds. Should be the basis of all procedures. Reveal it all now and let the residents decide who they want in charge before the vote.
PaulCa
says...
11:46am Wed 10 Oct 12
montague1 wrote:Bad analogy Montague1. Unless there are individuals who've lodged current grievances or have whistleblown, from here, the staff you refer to appear as bystanders, complaining in private, whilst staying safe beneath the parapet. I don't think there'll be much sympathy from certain quarters.
This also illustrates just how astute many of the genuinely hard working and dedicated "ordinary" and honest members of staff in DASS are.
Many have referred to some senior
officers as The Commandant, The Obergrupenfrau, Herr this and Herr that,
for a very long time!.
Many also feel that they have been bullied in ways the Nazis could have learned a great deal.
Put yourself in the shoes of any of the known whistleblowers. They went through hell, had their health and family lives trashed, their income & livelihoods removed. Then read your contribution again.
Do you really believe staff who lay supine and don't act on or speak up about the abuse of vulnerable people are "astute" or "honest"?
Why are they content to stay and remain complicit? Why are they not in touch with the authorities, and when that fails, the press?
montague1
says...
12:59pm Wed 10 Oct 12
PeteSheff
says...
1:27pm Wed 10 Oct 12
montague1
says...
2:01pm Wed 10 Oct 12
You may recall that I recently posted that the so called "light at the end of the tunnel" just might be the lights of a very fast, oncoming train?.
Stand well back!.
niggle rumps
says...
2:17pm Wed 10 Oct 12
montague1 wrote:The light at the end of the tunnel has been turned off due to budget cuts
Your hearing is excellent PeteSheff !!. You may recall that I recently posted that the so called "light at the end of the tunnel" just might be the lights of a very fast, oncoming train?. Stand well back!.
uncatom
says...
4:23pm Wed 10 Oct 12
council officer
says...
6:06pm Wed 10 Oct 12
PaulCa wrote:C'mon PaulCa, that's a bit below the belt. You know how it operates! Lots of these good people have families and commitments like the rest of society. They have seen how others have been treated so why risk all that when nothing will change? They ask themselves do they want to put everything they have worked for in jeopardy and probably say no! And who can blame them? There is good people in the council but it is controlled by the most senior few. They are to blame, not the junior staff. Btw, not seen any change despite Klonowski, Frater, Burgess, Morton, Field et al!!!
montague1 wrote:Bad analogy Montague1. Unless there are individuals who've lodged current grievances or have whistleblown, from here, the staff you refer to appear as bystanders, complaining in private, whilst staying safe beneath the parapet. I don't think there'll be much sympathy from certain quarters.
This also illustrates just how astute many of the genuinely hard working and dedicated "ordinary" and honest members of staff in DASS are.
Many have referred to some senior
officers as The Commandant, The Obergrupenfrau, Herr this and Herr that,
for a very long time!.
Many also feel that they have been bullied in ways the Nazis could have learned a great deal.
Put yourself in the shoes of any of the known whistleblowers. They went through hell, had their health and family lives trashed, their income & livelihoods removed. Then read your contribution again.
Do you really believe staff who lay supine and don't act on or speak up about the abuse of vulnerable people are "astute" or "honest"?
Why are they content to stay and remain complicit? Why are they not in touch with the authorities, and when that fails, the press?
council officer
says...
6:10pm Wed 10 Oct 12
montague1 wrote:I for one hope and pray it is heading straight for Wallasey Town Hall - taxi for Spinderella!
Your hearing is excellent PeteSheff !!.
You may recall that I recently posted that the so called "light at the end of the tunnel" just might be the lights of a very fast, oncoming train?.
Stand well back!.
montague1
says...
8:34pm Wed 10 Oct 12
PeteSheff
says...
9:58pm Wed 10 Oct 12
hobroW
says...
11:03am Thu 11 Oct 12
The independent auditor will be appointed early next week says the temporary Head of Internal Audit (previous incumbent retired at end September after producing report on ISUS BIG fund whistleblows "not fit for purpose")
I expect the noisy refrain "I voss only obeying orders!" when the investigation commences. I have enquired if the auditor external MUST observe the councils whistleblowing policy.
By the way anyone want a copy of the same
hobroW
says...
11:03am Thu 11 Oct 12
The independent auditor will be appointed early next week says the temporary Head of Internal Audit (previous incumbent retired at end September after producing report on ISUS BIG fund whistleblows "not fit for purpose")
I expect the noisy refrain "I voss only obeying orders!" when the investigation commences. I have enquired if the auditor external MUST observe the councils whistleblowing policy.
By the way anyone want a copy of the same
hobroW
says...
11:04am Thu 11 Oct 12
The independent auditor will be appointed early next week says the temporary Head of Internal Audit (previous incumbent retired at end September after producing report on ISUS BIG fund whistleblows "not fit for purpose")
I expect the noisy refrain "I voss only obeying orders!" when the investigation commences. I have enquired if the auditor external MUST observe the councils whistleblowing policy.
By the way anyone want a copy of the same
hobroW
says...
2:06pm Thu 11 Oct 12
council officer wrote:All well and good but look at it another way.
PaulCa wrote:C'mon PaulCa, that's a bit below the belt. You know how it operates! Lots of these good people have families and commitments like the rest of society. They have seen how others have been treated so why risk all that when nothing will change? They ask themselves do they want to put everything they have worked for in jeopardy and probably say no! And who can blame them? There is good people in the council but it is controlled by the most senior few. They are to blame, not the junior staff. Btw, not seen any change despite Klonowski, Frater, Burgess, Morton, Field et al!!!
montague1 wrote:Bad analogy Montague1. Unless there are individuals who've lodged current grievances or have whistleblown, from here, the staff you refer to appear as bystanders, complaining in private, whilst staying safe beneath the parapet. I don't think there'll be much sympathy from certain quarters.
This also illustrates just how astute many of the genuinely hard working and dedicated "ordinary" and honest members of staff in DASS are.
Many have referred to some senior
officers as The Commandant, The Obergrupenfrau, Herr this and Herr that,
for a very long time!.
Many also feel that they have been bullied in ways the Nazis could have learned a great deal.
Put yourself in the shoes of any of the known whistleblowers. They went through hell, had their health and family lives trashed, their income & livelihoods removed. Then read your contribution again.
Do you really believe staff who lay supine and don't act on or speak up about the abuse of vulnerable people are "astute" or "honest"?
Why are they content to stay and remain complicit? Why are they not in touch with the authorities, and when that fails, the press?
Whistleblowers tend to stand alone. If co-workers had the bottle and stood with them whistleblowing would not be necessary. Had a few more people stood with me rather than mumble in the sidelines then any malfeasance wiould have been stopped dead. Workers of the world UNITE you have nothing to lose but your chains
PaulCa
says...
2:49pm Thu 11 Oct 12
council officer wrote:I don't hit below the belt Council Officer - but I DO hit where it hurts. You are attacking and demeaning whistleblowers by trying to set them apart as somehow "different".
PaulCa wrote:C'mon PaulCa, that's a bit below the belt. You know how it operates! Lots of these good people have families and commitments like the rest of society. They have seen how others have been treated so why risk all that when nothing will change? They ask themselves do they want to put everything they have worked for in jeopardy and probably say no! And who can blame them? There is good people in the council but it is controlled by the most senior few. They are to blame, not the junior staff. Btw, not seen any change despite Klonowski, Frater, Burgess, Morton, Field et al!!!
montague1 wrote:Bad analogy Montague1. Unless there are individuals who've lodged current grievances or have whistleblown, from here, the staff you refer to appear as bystanders, complaining in private, whilst staying safe beneath the parapet. I don't think there'll be much sympathy from certain quarters.
This also illustrates just how astute many of the genuinely hard working and dedicated "ordinary" and honest members of staff in DASS are.
Many have referred to some senior
officers as The Commandant, The Obergrupenfrau, Herr this and Herr that,
for a very long time!.
Many also feel that they have been bullied in ways the Nazis could have learned a great deal.
Put yourself in the shoes of any of the known whistleblowers. They went through hell, had their health and family lives trashed, their income & livelihoods removed. Then read your contribution again.
Do you really believe staff who lay supine and don't act on or speak up about the abuse of vulnerable people are "astute" or "honest"?
Why are they content to stay and remain complicit? Why are they not in touch with the authorities, and when that fails, the press?
To address your points one by one:
Whistleblowers have families.
Whistleblowers have commitments.
Whistleblowers have witnessed others being savaged, but went with the courage of their convictions.
Whistleblowers have made things progress towards change - Councillor / Senior Officer default setting to resist that change and shake off any responsibility has made progress grindingly and painfully slow.
Whistleblowers on Wirral asked themselves the SAME questions, but could not stand and watch abuse being carried on and vulnerable people suffering - like other complicit parties are doing right now.
Don't lose heart and give up CO. Try to stand tall and proud, like others did.
Haddy Nuff
says...
3:10pm Thu 11 Oct 12
johnhardaker
says...
3:54pm Thu 11 Oct 12
hobroW
says...
5:23pm Thu 11 Oct 12
Mine if I am wrong. Officers and others if I am right.
At Germinal 1794 "les indulgents" were guillotined. Unfortunately Danton was in the "fournee" but the majority were swindlers who had raped the French East Indiua Company.Who wants to be Robespierrre for a day? and demand "les tetes".
hobroW
says...
5:23pm Thu 11 Oct 12
Mine if I am wrong. Officers and others if I am right.
At Germinal 1794 "les indulgents" were guillotined. Unfortunately Danton was in the "fournee" but the majority were swindlers who had raped the French East Indiua Company.Who wants to be Robespierrre for a day? and demand "les tetes".
council officer
says...
5:37pm Thu 11 Oct 12
PaulCa wrote:Hey PaulCa,
council officer wrote:I don't hit below the belt Council Officer - but I DO hit where it hurts. You are attacking and demeaning whistleblowers by trying to set them apart as somehow "different".
PaulCa wrote:C'mon PaulCa, that's a bit below the belt. You know how it operates! Lots of these good people have families and commitments like the rest of society. They have seen how others have been treated so why risk all that when nothing will change? They ask themselves do they want to put everything they have worked for in jeopardy and probably say no! And who can blame them? There is good people in the council but it is controlled by the most senior few. They are to blame, not the junior staff. Btw, not seen any change despite Klonowski, Frater, Burgess, Morton, Field et al!!!
montague1 wrote:Bad analogy Montague1. Unless there are individuals who've lodged current grievances or have whistleblown, from here, the staff you refer to appear as bystanders, complaining in private, whilst staying safe beneath the parapet. I don't think there'll be much sympathy from certain quarters.
This also illustrates just how astute many of the genuinely hard working and dedicated "ordinary" and honest members of staff in DASS are.
Many have referred to some senior
officers as The Commandant, The Obergrupenfrau, Herr this and Herr that,
for a very long time!.
Many also feel that they have been bullied in ways the Nazis could have learned a great deal.
Put yourself in the shoes of any of the known whistleblowers. They went through hell, had their health and family lives trashed, their income & livelihoods removed. Then read your contribution again.
Do you really believe staff who lay supine and don't act on or speak up about the abuse of vulnerable people are "astute" or "honest"?
Why are they content to stay and remain complicit? Why are they not in touch with the authorities, and when that fails, the press?
To address your points one by one:
Whistleblowers have families.
Whistleblowers have commitments.
Whistleblowers have witnessed others being savaged, but went with the courage of their convictions.
Whistleblowers have made things progress towards change - Councillor / Senior Officer default setting to resist that change and shake off any responsibility has made progress grindingly and painfully slow.
Whistleblowers on Wirral asked themselves the SAME questions, but could not stand and watch abuse being carried on and vulnerable people suffering - like other complicit parties are doing right now.
Don't lose heart and give up CO. Try to stand tall and proud, like others did.
I'm definitely not attacking or demeaning them, honestly. I applaud them but was trying to explain why others don't/wont follow. We all have story to tell and one day I hope to tell mine!
Bet wishes CO
ArdalMcFardle
says...
6:15pm Thu 11 Oct 12
MX
says...
7:17pm Thu 11 Oct 12
Sorry, but I for one, won't be buying it.
hobroW
says...
10:07am Fri 12 Oct 12
They came for communists, homosexuals, clergy etc if you didnt stand up for them then who will stand up for you when they come for you a paraphrase I admit,
Though the parallells seem extravagant they seem only. The truth is the Nazi revolution was rapid. One day Berlin was in a democracy, the next it was in grip pf totalitarian terror. Created by the legitimization of lies, by the complicity of civil servants...Stop the lies now and prevent another slide into ... an even more powerful state with control over all means of communication and absolute surveillance. Again read 1984 Orwell.
Ben Beaconsfield
says...
11:00am Fri 12 Oct 12
I just want to wish all those with tribunals pending, all whistleblowers, all innocent but embarrassed Wirral Borough Council employees, all interested posters and, above all, the North West Media Website of the Year (the 'Globe', stupid!!) the very best for the weeks and months ahead as this sordid business continues to unfold.
I can't say anything about the morally bankrupt officers, ex-officers and councillors of Wirral Borough Council, on the advice of my lawyers.....
montague1
says...
1:25pm Fri 12 Oct 12
Pots and kettles come to mind.
MX
says...
2:12pm Fri 12 Oct 12
council officer
says...
8:18pm Fri 12 Oct 12
MX wrote:Pot, kettle and black MX. You do enough moaning and finger pointing yourself and by your comments you appear to be closer to the action than me, So what's your story? When I tell mine, it not be through the press but though a lawyer!
One day Council Officer you promise you will tell your story and what will that story be called?- "Sniping from the Sidelines"?.
Sorry, but I for one, won't be buying it.
Best wishes CO
montague1
says...
2:17am Sat 13 Oct 12
It clearly bypassed MX completely !!.
Keep strong.
MX
says...
7:54am Sat 13 Oct 12
Good luck with that one CO!.
montague1
says...
10:59am Sat 13 Oct 12
RL 1952
says...
12:11pm Sat 13 Oct 12
Cheesy Peas
says...
12:48pm Sat 13 Oct 12
Oh yes.
"There's a storm comin'...."
council officer
says...
5:11pm Sat 13 Oct 12
Everyone seems to be in the know; whats occurring then? Spill the beans cheese!
colindyas
says...
1:27am Wed 17 Oct 12
On the other hand Wirral is engaged in "secret council meetings" to pay off senior council officers, accused of wrong doing, whose salaries, pensions and severance awards, come from tax payer revenues. Yet the rationales for making such decisions, were made in a pejorative "Star Chamber" environment, and deemed "to not be in the public interest."
This is immoral in purpose, and verging on the illegal. It suggests a local authority working at the margins of its designated powers, if not beyond. It also shows a complete lack of public respect.
Actions like this explain the lack of public interest in the councils activities, as well as the appalling way in which day to day council operations, communications, and decision making processes are being managed. One in particular affects me, and involves another senior officer.
And all of this is happening in a month where damaging revelations have reached the public domain on the Hillsborough tragedy, Jimmy Saville molestation accusations, and Lance Armstrong doping. In all three examples, so called "untouchables" are feeling the full weight of investigative journalism, community inspired professional politicians, and a remorseful and apologetic judiciary and media.
Surely it cannot be long before Wirral's sad and regrettable mess is exposed in the same way, and one way or another, reach the public domain.
So lets get these circumstances into the public domain by consent, rather then dissent, while this remains possible. Unless of course local councillors themselves, have something to hide, I am sure if the truths comes forward voluntarily, it can only lead to credit.
And one final thing; all those people posting behind pseudonyms, on such important matters, please have the courtesy to use your real names, or you're no better than those you accuse. Unless of course you are a genuine, so called "whistle blower," in which case you should approach the appropriate authority.
Alternatively, if you represent the press you should consider your professional integrity rather than amateur anonymity
johnhardaker
says...
9:47am Wed 17 Oct 12
hobroW
says...
2:05pm Wed 17 Oct 12
My expert witness-I am a qualified accountant of over 30 years experience-was submitted in summer 2011. The revelations were statistical , explicit and not hearsay. However first Invest wirral cleared itself and its operatives, then despite this clearance further pressure led to its referral to Internal Audit in September 2011. The latter did not see fit to ask to interview me so I searched them out seeing them in November 2011. The Head of internal audit was a Beverley edwards who promised to interview staff in Wirralbiz in December 2011. When she turned up in mid-december 2011 she was refused access to staff, accepted this disappeared on sickness leave and resigned from the Council. Her successor Dave Garry worked only 2 days weekly. I asked to meet ihim in January 212 and March 5 2012. The interviews were detailed.
Nothing hapened and emails with more evidence provided him were not read until he in summer 2012 declared he would take no more evidence.Liam Murphy of Daily Post asked council for press statement which declared grandly in april 2012 that the report would be published within a few weeks. Nothing happened!
To my enquiries D Garry replied that the reports were subject to the Right to Reply.Cllr A Jones was intervening on my behalf and accepting the evidence I was providing. In July Merseyside CID accepted there was a prima facie case for fraud. Margaret Hodge MP and chair of Parliamentary cttee for public expenditure intervened resulting in a public email from D Garry to myself where it became obvious he had not properly read my evidence. Volte face he was obliged to consider ALL my evidence by his political masters. In september 2012 just before the Audit and Risk committee met to consider D Garrys report I wrote to Mr Burgess supported by others who had suffered from the ISUS program. Mr timmins , acting head of finance then reviewed D Garrys work , found it scrappy and the conclusions unjustified. The senior leadership , after one year of ineffective follow-up, suppressed the Internal Audit report and proposed the appointment of independent, private auditors to recommence from BASe zero the same investigation. Estimated cost of the same -#50k and meanwhile Mr Garry has resigned and taken his pension.
My name is NIGEL HOBRO and I am proud to be a whistleblower though it has cost me dearly-no employment for 8 months!
montague1
says...
2:15pm Wed 17 Oct 12
Wish you every success at your Tribunal.
johnhardaker
says...
2:32pm Wed 17 Oct 12
montague1
says...
2:49pm Wed 17 Oct 12
Cheesy Peas
says...
4:55pm Wed 17 Oct 12
They really don't give a stuff what taxpayers think, do they?
johnhardaker
says...
6:08pm Wed 17 Oct 12
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