Wirral's Labour-led council on collision course with union over £100m spending cuts

3:19pm Tuesday 11th September 2012 in News Exclusive By Leigh Marles, Editor

Wirral's Labour-led council on collision course with union over £100m spending cuts Wirral's Labour-led council on collision course with union over £100m spending cuts

Wirral’s ruling Labour group and trade unionists are locked on collision course over proposed massive cuts in spending.

Unite community branch says it is deeply concerned both by the scale of proposed budget reductions and a public consultation exercise launched this week by the council.

The cabinet was told on Thursday the Government’s austerity drive means plans must be made to cut £100m from Wirral’s £300m budget over the next three years.

Leader Phil Davies acknowledged the cuts would be unpopular but stressed they needed to implemented.

Wirral Unite community group branch secretary Morag Reid said: “We firmly believe these cuts must be opposed, and we are disgusted that a Labour council is not even prepared to ask if people support these cuts.

“Savings on this scale cannot be made by ‘trimming fat’ or ‘smarter working’. Instead it will mean the closure, reduction and privatisation of services that people rely upon.

“From day centres to libraries, youth services to parks, our services will be decimated. It will also mean large-scale job losses at a time of high unemployment.”

The authority on Monday embarked on a major consultation exercise asking Wirral people where they think the cuts should fall.

Unite branded this consultation as a “sham” and will be carrying out its own alternative asking one question: “Do you think the council should implement £100 million cuts in services?”

An “anti-cuts movement” to oppose spending reductions in Wirral will also be mobilised.

Ms Reid continued: "The consultation gives the illusion people will get a say on the future of their local services, but it won't ask the real question - should our councillors be imposing cuts at all?

“Wirral voters elected a Labour council, hoping for an alternative to Tory cuts.

"Labour is letting them down.

"That's why we'll be asking as many Wirral people as possible to vote in our alternative ballot and find out whether the community really supports cuts, and we'll back that with a mass campaign to defend every job and service under threat."

Comments(34)

sancam39 says...
4:07pm Tue 11 Sep 12

This action I supose was inevitable for the brief period that the Council was Conservative or Tory led, there was the offer of AVS on the table, especially in the deparments with high levels of manual workers.

This will not be repeated by a Labour led Council, so once again the workers on the front line will be shafted.

I have yet to see the high levels of senior mangers being given their marching orders, with minmum redundancy payments, quite a number are even now on Garden Leave or Suspended from the top paid ranks but always on full pay or inflated pay offs.

It stinks, and Phil Davies knows it.

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johnbrace says...
4:29pm Tue 11 Sep 12

Well according to the Special Cabinet (followed by a Special Employment and Appointments Committee) in a week, the recommendation is that they hire more senior managers, posts they admit they can't fill until the suspensions issue is sorted.

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WirralAl says...
4:54pm Tue 11 Sep 12

First point of call sack the Union reps who the Wirral Council employ.

STOP PAYING BUNGS TO YOUR EX BUDDIES AND CONSULTANTS.

GET RID OF SENIOR MANAGERS.

GET RID OF HALF THE COUNCILLORS.

Reduce the amount of meetings that they have which boosts expenses.

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council officer says...
5:30pm Tue 11 Sep 12

I would start with Communication and Engagement Department. It seems to me that we have an army of people who "manage the councils reputation" very badly in my opinion! It seems that each time the council needs to make a decision it wheels out another consultation, no wonder this Dept is so big! The last major consultation was deemed a massive success by the Head of Communication. It was like the blind leading the blind. So guess what, let's have another one so we can blame the cutbacks on the people of Wirral and call them savings! Another success for the Spin Doc eh! The budget for this Dept must be huge. Is it essential? We have middle managers in this Dept whos staff left on EVR/EVS years ago and still pick up the same salaries. If your "face fits" then you are ok, if not then you're in trouble! Its the Wirral way......

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Ben Beaconsfield says...
5:45pm Tue 11 Sep 12

Unite say this consultation is a “sham” and want one asking the question : “Do you think the council should implement £100 million cuts in services?”

Supposing a large majority respond: "No, we don't." What then? They talk of a mass campaign to defend every job and service under threat. What do they mean? Strikes, demonstrations, sit-ins, mass pickets, union bully-boys masquerading as 'security personnel'?Do they mean a re-run of Hatton's Militant-Tendency style Liverpool? If so, why not spell it out clearly?

In calling for councillors to refuse to implement these government cuts, are they saying that the council should run a budget deficit? Will this mean eventual disqualification of councillors and the imposition of local government commissioners to do the dirty work?

It's all very well calling for people to man the barricades, but it would be more honest to detail the implications of the sort of resistance to cuts which may be required before raising people's hopes of what may at the end of the day be an inevitability.

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bloodtub says...
7:52pm Tue 11 Sep 12

too many people .getting paid to much for to little,too many old buildings ,that should have been closed down or sold off,bring in a maxium wage for manual workers time to transfer ownership of lesuire centers ,so they can be run as a going concerns not lose making mill stone round the councils necks close out dated libraries. time for people to pay for what they wont and not what the council think they need,let the private sector provide the sevices, pay for what you use not for everyone else

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Spiffy says...
7:57pm Tue 11 Sep 12

Question: “Do you think the council should implement £100 million cuts in services?”
...
Answer: That depends on what we're paying for in the first place. Full details please then you can have our informed decision.

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uniteagainstcuts says...
8:33pm Tue 11 Sep 12

I think it's very unlikely that there will be a big vote in favour of cuts. The anit cuts campaign has already been growing & there's lots of support on the streets. We've been waiting to see what the Labour council would do now they're in power. Inevitably they've decided to take the easy option & not only implement Tory cuts - NOT voted for by the majority on Wirral - but have the cheek to ask us as Wirral residents to decide where the axe will fall. Before asking members of the community who are simply standing up for the jobs & services we all depend on to provide full details, why not ask your local councillors why they're passing the buck, and what democracy there is on Wirral if you vote Labour & get Tory cuts?
@ Ben Beaconsfield, it's easy to paint a frightening picture of a 'Militant' council - seems what you mean is one that stands up for its residents against unjust austerity being imposed on them while the rich get richer. It's a far more frightening vision to me to live under a supposedly 'caring' council that is about to slash services for the elderly & most vulnerable,and those that affect all of us, beyond belief.
There was & still is an alternative. Wirral Council has known long for a long, long time that they'd face this situation. Why not plan properly? It's a borrower's market for councils, and despite the mess Wirral still has reserves to use. Why not be brave enough to plan ahead & find the money to support the communities that elected them? Nationally, local councils have £17 billion in reserves. That's more than the total national cuts being imposed by councils. They all had & still have an alternative, but they are cowards more interested in serving themselves than the people they are supposed to represent.

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MX says...
8:59pm Tue 11 Sep 12

Yes Wirral Council have seen this coming for years and Unite and Unison have been hand in glove with the Labour group throughout the duration.

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uniteagainstcuts says...
9:12pm Tue 11 Sep 12

Can you substantiate that MX? Just to clarify, Unite Community Branch is based in the community not in a workplace & has no links to the council. Many of us would agree that the way some unions have handled threats of cuts has not been ideal or in the best interests of the majority. But many other unions are in the frontline not just defneding their own jobs and conditions, many of them vital, but the interests and services of local people. I don't think the 1000s of workers already made redundant by the council were in any cosy relationship with them...Many of the cuts made by Tory led/hung councils too..

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PaulCa says...
10:36pm Tue 11 Sep 12

UNISON are the traitors and unprincipled "enemy" here. As I've said before, a fish rots from the head down and top man Prentis (now on the board of the Bank of England as a non-executive director (could not make this up)) has spent many years cultivating a fortified, impregnable position; a nicely feathered nest (£2million gaff darn sarff) and plenty more favours and rewards to match in order to hand down and keep his henchmen, sycophants and otherwise ignorant, deluded or joyfully unaware full time officers sweet.

These actually boast members of the Tory party locally amongst their number. What does that tell us?

Full time officers who spend much of their time pretending to traditional industrial values whilst dumping all over the needs and interests of their fee paying members - members who will be dropped like a stone if they ever fall out of favour and need to call upon urgent representation or legal advice to help them through a workplace dispute.

Graham Burgess was in it, making his contribution. He's now Wirral's CEO. What does that tell us?

An old Wirral HR boss, now retired, who "did the dirty deed" of signing across to management and who shall remain nameless was in it. What does that tell us?

I know Unite have their doubtful moments also. I'll probably do it one day, but at least for now, wouldn't lump them in with management's long time friend, companion, dogsbody, ever-loving, ever-faithful lickspittle and shoulder-to-cry-on, UNISON.

Anyone for a game of golf, drinky-poos, and a discussion about "problem people"?

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briandrummond says...
11:11pm Tue 11 Sep 12

If ever a story and the reaction in the comments epitomised the problems facing the council this is it. I bet every single one of these entries is either a councillors, former councillor, union official or political activist. Let people run the council please.

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polo_rob says...
11:42pm Tue 11 Sep 12

Regardless of who or what has led to the current situation the fact remains that one way or the other these savings need to be made. What exactly is wrong with certain services being contracted out to the private sector? As far as I can see, if properly administered it could lead to a improvement in services provided to the taxpayer, clauses and performance related targets can be imposed within the contracts to any private companies with penalties imposed for not meeting contractual obligations which could lead to a greater service at a reduced cost. Most public sector workers in my view are ridiculously over paid for the work they do any way. I myself do council work in the private sector, I am paid significantly less than my council counterparts yet am confident in saying that I and my colleagues provide a equal and in my opinion better and more down to earth service to our clients than our counterparts, I enjoy my job and I can honestly say it is a privilege and pleasure to get up each morning to go out and serve so many members of our community. Although the unions will be saying jobs will be lost, the reality will be most of the jobs will be recreated in nearly the exact same guise within the private sector, it would then be down to the former council worker to decide if they could lower themselves to work within the private sector, doing the same job for a more reasonable wage, fact is if they truly enjoy their jobs and helping our communities then so long as they make a living wage it shouldn't be a problem and they would probably find the private sector would give preference to their applications anyway.

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Wirral_Man says...
8:37am Wed 12 Sep 12

To the poster who mentioned the reserves - these reserves are there for contingency - e.g. if the tunnel flooded and needed rebuilding or if there was swine flu again and half the council staff are off sick etc so can't be spent on supporting annual spending.

As for the cuts, the simple, bald fact is that the country is broke and we need to balance the books - if not we will end up like Greece.

What you're then left with is the most difficult part which public service deserves to be cut less than others and the politics that come into play when we've got a Tory government and a Labour council. Couple this with hysterical reporting of matters e.g. the report above makes it look like the budget is being cut by a third but it's really £33m a year - the £100m is over the next 3 years.

I support the principle of balancing the books and some of the decisions that have been taken and oppose some of the others but it';s always going to be that way.

As has already been mentioned, those who are demanding that every job is to be protected please tell me where you're going to magic the money up from to pay for it?

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Ben Beaconsfield says...
9:39am Wed 12 Sep 12

Now we're getting somewhere. Genuine list of ideas to be kicked around by Cllr Davies and his friends, including:-

-restrict payouts to those officers who end up going following their 'garden leave'
-end council funding of union officials
-get rid of many senior managers
-greatly reduce the number of councillors
-close down the Communication and Engagement Department
-sell off old/under-used council buildings
-introduce maximum wage for manual workers
-sell leisure centres to the private sector
-close down out-dated libraries
-end indiscriminate council services and introduce a more private-sector orientated system
-privatise more services
-spend more council reserves

There's a start. don't agree with ever one of them myself, but a great base for a meaningful discussion.

A few more comments:

* Let's not be sidetracked by how good/bad unions are in Wirral. That's for another day. Keep focussed on how we can sort this financial mess out.

* How good is that. you invent a nom-de-plume 'uniteagainstcuts' in the hope that one day it may come in handy and, lo and behold, up pops an issue into which you can get your teeth !!

*I'm not a councillor, former councillor, union official or political activist (or even a dead Earl and former Tory Prime Minister). Where does that leave me on your spectrum, Brian?

A final warning - it looks as though we might have the beginning of meaningful dialogue. This thread is is danger of becoming sensible.

Don't forget to fill in your questionnaires and send them in.

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bickyboy says...
10:32am Wed 12 Sep 12

Is it realistic to expect a local authority to still be able to manage its responsibilities after cutting its budget by a third? No, it is not. The union is right, and council leaders SHOULD be manning the barricades and taking the government on over this. Someone has to make a stand or the professional penny pinchers will keep on coming back for more until the services our council tax pays for have either gone completely or are being run on a shoestring by private sector asset strippers.

Do you want more holes in the road? Do you want your elderly relatives to be looked after in their old age by people who care, or would you rather they became pawns for the bean counters? Do you want dirty streets, massively inflated parking charges and fines and a lily livered council cabinet who simply lay down in front of the government juggernaut and allow themselves and their constituents to be crushed? I don't; and as a union member myself, although not employed in the local authority sector I will do everything in my power to support union efforts to combat any further reductions in services. I urge all others to do the same, union members or not, because enough is enough. As for our councillors: if we can't trust them to protect our services, then the honourable thing for them to do would be to resign en masse.

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Ben Beaconsfield says...
11:07am Wed 12 Sep 12

bickyboy:

I respect your views, though I don't agree with your call to man the barricades.

What local authority has ever successfully withstood Whitehall-generated cuts? The so-called 'Lefty London Boroughs' couldn't do it, nor could Clay Cross, nor could Militant Liverpool.

And the reason is that the government (of any colour) holds all the aces, right down to surcharging councillors who fail to set a budget or who try to set a deficit one, disqualification of councillors and the imposition of local government commissioners (which I have called for elsewhere on these threads in the past, but in entirely different circumstances).

What you are suggesting is a disastrous recipe for chaos. Better to have an all-party consensus that massive disruption where the most vulnerable will suffer in disproportion to the rest of us.

Your call to arms suggest you believe there is no give whatsoever in the massive sums this council spends each year? I'm sure you don't believe that, and I am certain you could come up with one suggestion, no matter how small, where money could be saved. If we all did the same, we would be nearer a solution to this mess.

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bickyboy says...
2:52pm Wed 12 Sep 12

Ben, my "call to arms" was largely an expression of self conscious hyperbole, I admit. So shoot me.

Chaos? What kind of chaos would you prefer: the chaos of a budget slashed by a third,with more to follow if the council just roll over and take it, or the "chaos" of someone actually standing up and saying No, we should be doing this a different way, because enough really is enough?

I'm serious about one thing: councillors DO need to demonstrate, to me at least, that they can do more than just wring their hands when confronted with another round of austerity cuts. Where is the evidence that they've mounted a legitimate challenge to government austerity plans? No raft of suggestions, however creative or credible will ever amount to a figure approaching even half of the sum Wirral Council is being told to slash from the budget, so although it may be fun taking part in our own consultation and once again parading our favourite hobby horses (senior managers' severance pay, councillors' expenses, etc etc) I really don't see the point in we Wirral turkeys voting for yet another bleak Christmas.

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bloodtub says...
6:54pm Wed 12 Sep 12

the piont should be not how we got here but how we move forward blame anyone you like but it wont help solve anything ,the unions should have no say in any thing this is a local matter for local people not union leaders from outside the wirral
time to move forward and break the council-union club

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bickyboy says...
9:42pm Wed 12 Sep 12

If the solutions to the crisis include changes to the conditions of Wirral council workers then this situation most certainly IS the concern of union leaders, whose responsibility it is to protect those who are their members.

In these circumstances, I really don't see much point in making suggestions for saving money. Coming up with constructive and credible ideas for cutting from the Wirral budget anything even remotely approaching 100 million quid-- and doing it without decimating council services-- is, IMO far beyond the scope of even the most imaginative of Wirral residents.

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uniteagainstcuts says...
12:04am Thu 13 Sep 12

Bloodtub maybe you should read people's posts properly (and understand how unions work at local level)? To repeat, Unite Community is a new development, community based, not work-based unions of ordinary people who make their own decisons about what issues affect them & no one in the branch gets paid for it or told what to do by those higher up, we just affiliate to Unite.
And Brian, breaking news - unionists, activists and (allegedly) even councillors are homo sapiens ie people. We live in houses, eat, sleep, work (if we can), dream & rely on community services like 'ordinary' people! So when say 'let people decide' you seem to mean people who don't have strong views or considered opinions of their own? Or maybe just people who agree with you??
Bicky, spot on. Do people really believe that you can save £100m just by transferring to private sector? We're talking about services just going, lost completely, not tendered out on the cheap. And before you start slagging council/state services compared to private sector, here's just one little example from many.. G4 private sector security running prisons & a little event called the Olympics. Look how successful that was!
The real chaos will come as a result of the loss of services & rising unemployment as a result of these cuts. And if the worst came to the worst, and we didn't pursue viable alternatives to cuts - why not have an objective, non political official decide where, because our brave, honourable councillors weren't prepared to stab us all in the back to give themselves an easier life.
Wouldn't it be lovely to live in world with councillors who had guts & honour.

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uniteagainstcuts says...
12:15am Thu 13 Sep 12

'One who breaks an unjust law that conscience tells him is unjust, and who willingly accepts the penalty of imprisonment in order to arouse the conscience of the community over its injustice, is in reality expressing the highest respect for law'.
Martin Luther King.
Councillors might ponder on that, as might those who've been persuaded that somehow we're all responsible for the greed of the rich and must pay for it, some of us a very heavy price.

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bickyboy says...
8:55am Thu 13 Sep 12

Two good posts there, unite. For a moment I thought I might be the only person who reads the Wirral Globe and who thinks that lying down and taking the bitter medicine dished out by this rotten, incompetent government (which, despite the savage cuts it's handing down to our public services is STILL failing to address the deficit: a triumph of ideology over pragmatism, maybe?) is not the only choice that we and our elected "representatives" have. Councillors, either stand up in the spotlight and show some resolve, or slink off into the undergrowth where the small, scuttling and irrelevant things belong. Your choice, and ours to hold you in utter contempt if you take the latter course..

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uniteagainstcuts says...
5:38pm Thu 13 Sep 12

There's a lot of us ordinary people willing to stand up & fight Bicky (ps nice to know you're out there too!). This lot of councillors are a spineless bunch who'll hide behind 'government cuts' & media-created fear of 'going like Greece' to excuse their blatant self serving, cowardly attacks on Wirral workers, residents and public services.
For those who go on about Greece - they've MADE massive cuts for several years & they're still on their knees. Radio 4 had an interview with mothers in Athens whose children have cancer. Due to cuts the hospitals have started charging for their essential medicines - and some mums are sharing their medicine with others who can't afford meds for their kids. And that's in a country that's tried to bend to the cuts agenda.
So let's not live in this fantasy that if we cut £100million (plus the £17 million already overspent) everything will be ok. Nationally only 20% of planned cuts have been made; Wirral Tory council has already cut management by 25% & slashed some services. This is only the very beginning & if people don't wake up & realise how serious this is it'll be too late.
There's an alternative to Greece - Icelend. You won't hear the media going on about that, I wonder why? Maybe because their response to the recession was to put the bankers & businessmen responsible on trial, reclaim money, hold national referendums on whether the Icelandic people wanted to repay bankers' debts (a no vote of course!) & start to rebuild without making ordinary people take the blows. Ironically, Wirral council was one investor in greedy Icelandic banks who lost out cos of that - shame the council won't give us the chance to vote to deal with this issue with a viable alternative that doesn't punish the mass for the greed & incompetency of the few.

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bloodtub says...
8:36pm Thu 13 Sep 12

the council must invest its assets, and get the best returns, far from being greedy they were following the law set out by the goverment,all banks that crashed was not the fault of there investers, i see your left wing veiws are again wrong ,i pay council tax and taxes i have money in the bank lucky that people like me pay are willing to pay there way .time to live in the real world, you live in a council funded,false world in the private sector the world is very different,fewer holidays, less pay, more hours, no sick pay, no wonder they have to make cuts, why should council tax payers fund your members
when they get far less for more hours and less pay, welcome to the real world

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council officer says...
8:56pm Thu 13 Sep 12

Ben Beaconsfield wrote:
Now we're getting somewhere. Genuine list of ideas to be kicked around by Cllr Davies and his friends, including:-

-restrict payouts to those officers who end up going following their 'garden leave'
-end council funding of union officials
-get rid of many senior managers
-greatly reduce the number of councillors
-close down the Communication and Engagement Department
-sell off old/under-used council buildings
-introduce maximum wage for manual workers
-sell leisure centres to the private sector
-close down out-dated libraries
-end indiscriminate council services and introduce a more private-sector orientated system
-privatise more services
-spend more council reserves

There's a start. don't agree with ever one of them myself, but a great base for a meaningful discussion.

A few more comments:

* Let's not be sidetracked by how good/bad unions are in Wirral. That's for another day. Keep focussed on how we can sort this financial mess out.

* How good is that. you invent a nom-de-plume 'uniteagainstcuts' in the hope that one day it may come in handy and, lo and behold, up pops an issue into which you can get your teeth !!

*I'm not a councillor, former councillor, union official or political activist (or even a dead Earl and former Tory Prime Minister). Where does that leave me on your spectrum, Brian?

A final warning - it looks as though we might have the beginning of meaningful dialogue. This thread is is danger of becoming sensible.

Don't forget to fill in your questionnaires and send them in.
I agree with lots of those suggestions especially getting rid over the over inflated communications and engagement team. I would keep the staff who work with the community but lose the staff who work only to protect the councils reputation and work on Twitter and Facebook etc as that's not a vital job is it? That Department is too big and ends trimming now!

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Hon says...
9:03am Sun 16 Sep 12

They need hire more investigators for benefit fraud. It sounds bad but going my local you hear way too many people who live with their partners yet don't .declare it. Grates me. I understand banks played a part loaning money to people who couldnt afford it, but in.society things have changed we in my opinion are a society changing to where they rely on.benifit payments. It's workers that pay the brunt here.

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craigot89 says...
6:27pm Sun 16 Sep 12

bloodtub wrote:
the piont should be not how we got here but how we move forward blame anyone you like but it wont help solve anything ,the unions should have no say in any thing this is a local matter for local people not union leaders from outside the wirral
time to move forward and break the council-union club
Your comment shows real ignorance about the situation regarding the unions involvement in this campaign. This campaign is taking place at grass roots level by local residents who are trying to protect local jobs and services for the peope of Wirral. It is not being dictated from the top by leaders from outside the area but by local people. Its all well and good shunning the unions but who else is doing anything to protect our community from the cuts?

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PaulCa says...
9:44pm Sun 16 Sep 12

It's the full time officers of UNISON who present problems. Always have done. They're treacherous.

They play golf with senior managers on a regular basis. 4 senior managers are now suspended. So, with not much golf to play, UNISON will be lying low, licking their wounds - probably keen to get the clubs swinging again, get a dialogue going and discover the handicap of their buddy of old, Mr Burgess, the new CEO.

The community does need to fight - a battle for your dignity is completely justified. And that can't be resisted, when it's angry and when it's organised. Rolling over like a compromised councillor never achieved anything.

And part of me is thinking: if standing and fighting results in the Central Government heavy mob arriving in helicopters and streaming down ropes onto the roof of the Town Hall, Brighton Street, then so be it.

Who knows? If the only way to remove the corrupt councillors that have overseen losses of £10 million plus, and whom Anna Klonowski failed to unseat because of her undeclared "associations", is via an SAS style "hit" with stun grenades and balaclavas, then bring it on.

N O W.

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bloodtub says...
9:12pm Mon 17 Sep 12

craigot89 wrote:
bloodtub wrote:
the piont should be not how we got here but how we move forward blame anyone you like but it wont help solve anything ,the unions should have no say in any thing this is a local matter for local people not union leaders from outside the wirral
time to move forward and break the council-union club
Your comment shows real ignorance about the situation regarding the unions involvement in this campaign. This campaign is taking place at grass roots level by local residents who are trying to protect local jobs and services for the peope of Wirral. It is not being dictated from the top by leaders from outside the area but by local people. Its all well and good shunning the unions but who else is doing anything to protect our community from the cuts?
craigot 89,well my ignorance, must be matched by your total misunderstanding of the present problem how do you no that all the people of wirral wish to keep the services that local the council provide
you cant cut the buget and keep them all
some things have to go and the unions are there to fight for there members not the council tax payers of wirral if i came up with a plan too cut the council tax shortfall but had to cut you members pay and extend there hours and remove there sick pay ,but keep there jobs would you back it i dont think so time to understand this is whats best for the council tax payers not the unions

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Ben Beaconsfield says...
9:24am Tue 18 Sep 12

Let's be clear about what we mean when we talk of 'the unions' in this context.

They are public sector employees, working for Wirral Borough Council. According to a Freedom of Information Act response in April 2011, they account for less than 5,000 people out of a total Wirral population of over 300,000.

So whilst revelations regarding the alleged incompetence of UNISON officials may be interesting, they are, if posters don't mind it being said, rather parochial.

And with regard to imposed local government spending cuts, we have yet to see a sensible alternative offered up.

Are we all starting from the same base by accepting that government has to cut its spending in order to reduce the deficit inherited from 'no more Tory boom and bust' Blair and Brown? If not, how do we survive with the deficit we already have? Increase taxes? Where, and to who? Print more money? Tried that already (under another name - quantitative easing - in case the monetarists scream 'inflationary'). Borrow? Privatise via private sector investment (tried that too, with the obscene PFI rip-off).

And if cuts are the order of the day, where are they to be made? Not in local government spending, according to some posters on this and other Globe threads. So where? Defence? NHS? (absolutely not, presumably, because the NHS is a sacred cow). Defence? Overseas Aid? Europe?

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craigot89 says...
9:17pm Thu 27 Sep 12

bloodtub wrote:
craigot89 wrote:
bloodtub wrote:
the piont should be not how we got here but how we move forward blame anyone you like but it wont help solve anything ,the unions should have no say in any thing this is a local matter for local people not union leaders from outside the wirral
time to move forward and break the council-union club
Your comment shows real ignorance about the situation regarding the unions involvement in this campaign. This campaign is taking place at grass roots level by local residents who are trying to protect local jobs and services for the peope of Wirral. It is not being dictated from the top by leaders from outside the area but by local people. Its all well and good shunning the unions but who else is doing anything to protect our community from the cuts?
craigot 89,well my ignorance, must be matched by your total misunderstanding of the present problem how do you no that all the people of wirral wish to keep the services that local the council provide
you cant cut the buget and keep them all
some things have to go and the unions are there to fight for there members not the council tax payers of wirral if i came up with a plan too cut the council tax shortfall but had to cut you members pay and extend there hours and remove there sick pay ,but keep there jobs would you back it i dont think so time to understand this is whats best for the council tax payers not the unions
Like I said ignorance. I think you are confusing this campaign for a dispute. This campaign is being funded by unite, most publice sector workers are with unison so it is not a case of unions representing their members. It is local people who are also council tax payers realising people shouldnt have to loose their jobs and services to pay off a deficit created by the extreme greed of the financial sector.

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Ben Beaconsfield says...
9:19am Fri 28 Sep 12

craigot89 says: "It is local people who are also council tax payers realising people shouldnt have to loose their jobs and services to pay off a deficit created by the extreme greed of the financial sector."

So the last 'New' Labour government had nothing to do with anything, then? What about the Big Lie (not a word I normally use when commentating on political matters, but in this context the appropriate one) from Blair and Brown: "No more Tory boom or bust"?

One thing 'New' Labour had with the Labour Party of old - they still managed, like McDonald, Attlee, Wilson and Calaghan before them, to leave this country in a worse economic mess than they found it.

And now we have the architects of the 'New' Labour disaster - Milliband and Balls, both deeply involved in crafting the last government's economic strategy - looking to be given a second chance.....

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craigot89 says...
9:07pm Sat 29 Sep 12

Ben Beaconsfield wrote:
craigot89 says: "It is local people who are also council tax payers realising people shouldnt have to loose their jobs and services to pay off a deficit created by the extreme greed of the financial sector."

So the last 'New' Labour government had nothing to do with anything, then? What about the Big Lie (not a word I normally use when commentating on political matters, but in this context the appropriate one) from Blair and Brown: "No more Tory boom or bust"?

One thing 'New' Labour had with the Labour Party of old - they still managed, like McDonald, Attlee, Wilson and Calaghan before them, to leave this country in a worse economic mess than they found it.

And now we have the architects of the 'New' Labour disaster - Milliband and Balls, both deeply involved in crafting the last government's economic strategy - looking to be given a second chance.....
labour are very much responsible for this mess by not introducing regulation into the financial sector but this is not about who is to blame because labour and the tories are too similar to distinguish from, this is about helping out our fellow workers who did not gain from the boom years but find theselves taking the full force of the bust. I am very dissapointed by Ed Milliband since he became leader and through him things will not change. I know the union movement is not perfect but its grass roots members are campaigning to save jobs and services. Our long term goal is to get working people back into the labour party to put pressure on these privately educated blairites to start representing the interests of every day people. We are the silent victims of austerity this campaign is about letting our voices be heard.

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