'Don't get ideas' - council leader's warning to anyone considering joining tax rebellion (From Wirral Globe)
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'Don't get ideas' - council leader's warning to anyone considering joining tax rebellion
11:00am Wednesday 9th March 2011 in News By Leigh Marles
Stand-off: Scene at Birkenhead County Court yesterday
The leader of Wirral Council has told anyone thinking of joining a rebel protest against paying council tax: "Don't get any ideas."
His call came after hundreds of anti-establishment demonstrators stormed Birkenhead County Court yesterday and "arrested" a judge.
Roads were blockaded and dozens of police officers deployed to keep order.
A stand-off followed with several demonstrators staging a sit-down protest in front of police vehicles, refusing to let them pass.
Several arrests were made and police dog-handlers called to the scene.
The protestors were from the anti-establishment "British Constitution Group."
The demonstration was sparked when one of the prominent voices in the BCG, Wirral man Roger Hayes, faced a hearing for non-payment of council tax.
Mr Hayes believes the tax is unlawful.
Today town hall chief Cllr Jeff Green told the Globe: “Have these people given any thought to what happens to the likes of Sure Start, public libraries or other services that people depend on?
"Not many people like paying tax but we accept the need for tax.
"I am disappointed that this case has been adjourned, but in the light of the events that took place, understand the court’s decision.
"However, before anyone else gets any ideas about not paying their council tax, let me assure everyone that Wirral Council is stepping up its activity to ensure that everyone pays their fair share.
"Nobody is above the law.”
Six people were arrested following yesterday's disturbance. Two are appearing before magistrates today.
Comments(49)
wotmnisnttkn
says...
1:18pm Tue 8 Mar 11
“Have these people given any thought to what happens to the likes of Sure Start, public libraries or other services that people depend on?..."
I think that is precisely why these people do not want to pay so much of this tax. They are deemed a waste of money. The whole system squanders our money.
The council tax is no contract of service. It is not written, implied, agreed nor is it a bona fide bill. It is entirely an unlawful imposition.
Nobody else can demand with menaces money for things people do not need nor want!
Make it lawful then there will be no excuse.
dreamweaver2012
says...
1:47pm Tue 8 Mar 11
nikg
says...
2:25pm Tue 8 Mar 11
Anyone who thinks this country is a dictatorship is living in a dream world. We have democratic elections every four years, transparency in local council spending, free trade and we protect our citizens (farmers for instance) against the realities of the outside world.
Try moving to China and see how 'free' you feel.
bob wirral
says...
4:25pm Tue 8 Mar 11
nikg
says...
4:34pm Tue 8 Mar 11
If you were suggesting that Britain should vote en masse, through the parliamentary system of universal suffrage that countless thousands have died to protect and extend, to oust the ruling parties, then I would respect your position, however naive it is.
To say that Magna Carta represents anything other than a rallying cry for disaffected landowners and luddites after the Civil War is similarly naive.
Spiffy
says...
4:44pm Tue 8 Mar 11
O.M.G...security words are: hang-bank
hahahahahahahahahaha
hahahahahaha
ahhh....(deep breath)
hahahahahahahahaha
brilliant !
bickyboy
says...
7:50pm Tue 8 Mar 11
herrman
says...
8:28pm Tue 8 Mar 11
Always you will find the entrenched power elite to try to hold onto power as much as they can. Take a look at Gaddafi and what he is doing to hold on to power. The question is, are you willing to risk life and limb to obtain the guarantees and results you want?
FLYING COLOURS
says...
2:27am Wed 9 Mar 11
"Not many people like paying tax but we accept the need for tax.
....And this from one of the traitors getting YOU the tax payer, including pensioners, to pay his and his cronies pensions!! We, Freedom Rebels, should start renaming the town halls by their German Master's name for Town Hall - " RATHAUS " - - with the emphasis on RAT !!
Stiofan
says...
5:06am Wed 9 Mar 11
slumdogg
says...
5:46am Wed 9 Mar 11
bobwillis
says...
8:29am Wed 9 Mar 11
Spiffy
says...
8:49am Wed 9 Mar 11
Stiofan wrote:Did you look here : http://www.silentmaj
Article 61 of the Magna Carta was repealed. It doesn't actually exist anymore. I have been looking it up for a while as I, like millions of others, are part of the pro-Freedom movement and we want to leave the European Union and become, once again, a free and Sovereign power.
ority.co.uk/
...
"Magna Carta is variously described as a covenant, contract or treaty. It is not an Act of Parliament. As we understand it, Magna Carta cannot be repealed by parliament. As a contract between sovereign and subjects, it can be breached only by one party or the other, but even in the breach it still stands. It is a mutual, binding agreement of indefinite duration. Any breach merely has the effect of giving the offended party rights of redress."
...
Interesting stuff.
Wirralrob
says...
1:13pm Wed 9 Mar 11
The_Wirral_Forum
says...
1:28pm Wed 9 Mar 11
I or my wife have never heard of this group but we will be supporting them fully from now and i know a lot more who will be following them also.
If everyone stops paying these council tax bills you would not be able to do a things because there would be to many people against it.
Mass protests needs to continue weekly, which i am sure they will.
We do not get our moneys worth for the bills we pay you, and the police just waste the money by ragging there vehicles around and our money goes towards there repairs.
And you should be ashamed of how many police turned up at that small protest and driving up one way streets the wrong way and could not even control there police dogs, there was people standing on the curb watching and the dogs where ripping things from there hands, would you let other peoples dogs do this?
West Wirral Reader
says...
6:10pm Wed 9 Mar 11
Wirral hasn't been democratic in years.
The fact that this local coalition, just like the last, is only effective because the turncoat Lib-Dems will work with anyone as long as they get to sit on lucrative outside bodies, tells you all you need to know.
If they really did care about Wirral, they'd shake up the council chamber to start with (by reducing members from three per ward to one; or 66 to 22) and then take a long hard look at the pen pushers in highways (you only need engineers; contractors do the rest of it); planning (nine people to advise on one decision is madness); publicity (you're the corpy - not a pop group)..... the list goes on.
I still don't see why the chief exec who is a dead cert to be Jim Wilkie anyway after an expensive advertising and head-hunting campaign needs to be paid over £100k a year. Or even over £50k a year for that matter.
If these people were really any good they'd be in the private sector. Pretending the corpy is in any way similar to a money making business, and its staff equally driven, is beyond the realms of madness, no matter which party is in charge.
starry
says...
6:11pm Wed 9 Mar 11
No.9
says...
10:23am Thu 10 Mar 11
Perhaps it's time more of us did "get ideas"!
td*
says...
10:26am Thu 10 Mar 11
...
Positive thinker
says...
6:16pm Thu 10 Mar 11
These people to work with you for
A day or two,they obviously think
They could do a better job
dave301bounty
says...
8:36pm Thu 10 Mar 11
td*
says...
8:50pm Thu 10 Mar 11
Positive thinker wrote:Absolutely, anytime...........
Mr.green I think you should invite These people to work with you for A day or two,they obviously think They could do a better job
td*
says...
8:52pm Thu 10 Mar 11
dave301bounty wrote:Really? ALL the objectives were met so it can't have been that much of a shambles.
The photo of the people making a noisy protest ,that says a lot .Nothing was thought out ,nobody did any organising ,it was a shambles .A LOTof hot air ,a lot of various opinions ,but the truth of the matter lies in the fact ,you in wirral put in power those in power .Same over here .You ,or anyone ,who wants change has to organise .And the voting special dosent work ,there are a group over here who know how rigged this is .You have to know ,and have some one in charge of any protest ,otherwise ,its a waste of time .The police have There orders ,you will never get anywhere without a Plan .
slumdogg
says...
2:28am Fri 11 Mar 11
Toryman
says...
8:04am Fri 11 Mar 11
Toryman
says...
9:11am Fri 11 Mar 11
Toryman
says...
9:18am Fri 11 Mar 11
td*
says...
9:34am Fri 11 Mar 11
Toryman wrote:Cut in benefit? Who's on benefit? People are staring to awake to the liars & idiots who govern us.
Never get any ideas; leave them for sensible people. This is only our first measure to deal with scum. If you dare to step it up you will realise how far we can take it. Your cut in benefit is only the starting point.
Toryman
says...
9:54am Fri 11 Mar 11
td* wrote:td*, £5 Billion worth of people are on benefit; and they're not staring at it, they've already started on it, and have done for many years.
Toryman wrote:Cut in benefit? Who's on benefit? People are staring to awake to the liars & idiots who govern us.
Never get any ideas; leave them for sensible people. This is only our first measure to deal with scum. If you dare to step it up you will realise how far we can take it. Your cut in benefit is only the starting point.
td*
says...
10:06am Fri 11 Mar 11
JOTHF.
says...
3:31pm Fri 11 Mar 11
http://www.ukcolumn.
org/articles/arrest-
and-rescue-judge-pea
ke
Regards, JOTHF.
JOTHF.
says...
3:45pm Fri 11 Mar 11
tube.com/watch?v=uq1
XNe4fEzY
Regards, TOTHF
allnamestaken?
says...
2:25pm Sat 12 Mar 11
Best wishes to you all from a Londoner who would now like to nominate LIVERPOOL as the new capital of england.
Dantealighieri
says...
6:02pm Sat 12 Mar 11
macbone
says...
8:55pm Sat 12 Mar 11
Roger Hayes
says...
9:25pm Sat 12 Mar 11
8:40pm Sat 12 Mar 11
As readers might gather from my user name... I am the Roger Hayes who is refusing to pay my council tax - because it is unlawful.
I do not hide behind a false name - I am proud to stand up for what I believe to be right.
I note that Jeff Green, leader of the council is big on rhetoric, he says 'Nobody is above the law' - but seems to conveniently omit to mention that the core of this issue is that the council themselves are breaking the law... the word hypocrisy springs to mind.
I also note the Jeff Green jumps to the age old political tactic of pulling at the heart-strings - i.e. 'what about Sure Start' - Indeed Mr Green what about Sure Start ? Why are we paying a corporate executive £250 000 ? WHO voted for him?
And what about the junkets... the expenses, the waste... I could go on. In fact Mr Green not only could I go on... but I WILL go on to expose the lies deceit and corruption... until the people of the Wirral get a fair system of taxation that more correctly reflects the services that they receive.
Let's talk about waste and corruptiuon... as well as Sure Start and Libraries MR GREEN.
The vast majority of council workers are good hard working peoiple who are worth every penny they get paid... but my gripe is not with them... it is with the corrupt party political system that has dominated our system of governance for far too long and who have, in a collective fashion, feathered their nests at our expense.
I am giving a presentation on the 22nd March at the Hollins Hey Hotel - New Brighton 7pm. If you want to find out the truth about why I am not paying my council tax... and why you should LAWFULLY withhold your tax... all are welcome. INCLUDING Mr Green, who I would suggest take his head out of his sanctimonious and patronising bottom and come and find out just why we are all so angry.
Come and listen to the people Mr Green - I dare you.
I regret that I am charging £10 for the evening - to cover costs, but I can promise the best £10 you will spend in a long time. Please call 0781 352 9383 to book a seat.
By not paying your council tax... you will force them to listen to your views... keep paying and they will ignore you.
hugo2008
says...
9:10am Sun 13 Mar 11
You have yet to clean out all the dead wood that brought Wirral Council Services to such a low repute.
And do not forget the so called legal advice and the people who denied you access to information you had a perfect right to see, over the libraries fiasco.
or perhaps that was all a sham on your part.
Remember People, if your local councillor has been in office for more than three years, DO NOT RE-ELECT THEM, pick a new face no matter what political party you support.
That way Councillors and for that matter MPs will get the message to listen to the electorate.
Positive thinker
says...
9:27pm Sun 13 Mar 11
Things on his agenda than to come and
Listen to a load of 1 hit wonders talking
A load of hot air,cant wait to hear about
All the empty seats
hedles
says...
9:32pm Sun 13 Mar 11
Spiffy wrote:The reason you may have been a little confused about this Stiofan is that there are (at least) two Magna Carta's.
Stiofan wrote:Did you look here : http://www.silentmaj
Article 61 of the Magna Carta was repealed. It doesn't actually exist anymore. I have been looking it up for a while as I, like millions of others, are part of the pro-Freedom movement and we want to leave the European Union and become, once again, a free and Sovereign power.
ority.co.uk/
...
"Magna Carta is variously described as a covenant, contract or treaty. It is not an Act of Parliament. As we understand it, Magna Carta cannot be repealed by parliament. As a contract between sovereign and subjects, it can be breached only by one party or the other, but even in the breach it still stands. It is a mutual, binding agreement of indefinite duration. Any breach merely has the effect of giving the offended party rights of redress."
...
Interesting stuff.
The original (and best!) was the above covenant referred to in the quote posted by Spiffy. This was signed by King John on the Isle of Runnymede in 1215.
Much later in 1297, an Act of Parliament confusingly given the same name was passed. (Parliament, as such, didn't exist in 1215.)
The 1297 Act was very different to the 1215 covenant. My current understanding is that several clauses were left out completely - among them article 61 (sometimes known as "chapter 61") and most of the remaining clauses were edited and renumbered. Hence there is sometimes some confusion about which clause is being referred to if only the number is given. There is a clause 61, however, only in the original 1215 document, so this number should be unambiguous.
The fact that the two are referred to by the same name is simply confusing. Possibly deliberately so! It would be better to think of the Act of Parliament as, say, "An Act of Parliament establishing the fundamental freedoms of the freemen of England", 1297. That might help to dispel some of the fog.
Now whatever you call it, the Act of Parliament, Magna Carta, is a 'possession' of Parliament, so they can amend it repeal it or monkey around with it to their heart's content. And, in fact, the latest law books state that only four of the original sections of the act remain in force, the others all having been repealed, or superseded by other legislation throughout the intervening years.
All this, however, has and can have no bearing at all upon the Magna Carta covenant or peace treaty signed by King John and agreed directly with the people of this country, which is a completely separate agreement.
So, technically, it is incorrect to state as you do that Chapter 61 of Magna Carta (Act of Parliament) was repealed. Chapter 61 of the Act never existed! That, however, cannot render ineffective the chapter by that number in the covenant.
Interestingly and significantly, a similar relationship exists between the Declaration of Rights, 1688 and the Bill of Rights, 1689.
The Declaration of Rights was an agreement made between the King William of Orange (and equally with his wife Queen Mary) and the people of England, which was a condition on the couple accepting jointly the throne of England and was, by their hands, binding upon all their heirs and successors to the throne and is therefore still in force today - a position which has been reinforced in the Coronation Oath of every subsequent monarch of England and the UK.
The Bill of Rights, 1689 is an almost identical Act of Parliament passed several months later.
Regarding Magna Carta Winston Churchill wrote, in his History of The English-Speaking Peoples,
"…and when in subsequent ages the state, swollen with its own authority, has attempted to ride roughshod over the rights and liberties of the subject it is to this doctrine that appeal has again and again been made, and never, as yet, without success."
slumdogg
says...
12:43pm Tue 15 Mar 11
slumdogg
says...
1:00pm Tue 15 Mar 11
slumdogg
says...
1:14pm Tue 15 Mar 11
slumdogg
says...
1:26pm Tue 15 Mar 11
.
Unless I am mistaken, the Globe have removed one of my Posts. Astounding! They can leave some of this guff up, but remove a post in which I pointed out the fact that the Hollins Hey hotel has some extremely bad reviews on tripadvisor.
td*
says...
5:29pm Tue 15 Mar 11
slumdogg wrote:Perhaps it was removed because you're a prat. Perhaps you should visit the hospital to see what they can do about your state brainwashing.
As readers will gather from my user name, I am slumdogg who thinks these people need a spell in hospital. . Unless I am mistaken, the Globe have removed one of my Posts. Astounding! They can leave some of this guff up, but remove a post in which I pointed out the fact that the Hollins Hey hotel has some extremely bad reviews on tripadvisor.
slumdogg
says...
10:13pm Tue 15 Mar 11
.
By the way, while you were at the shops, your place was searched and all your belongings were replaced with identical replicas. Isn't a sprat a small fish, sort of like whitebait?
.
Large Haloperidol for t*ss*r please!
td*
says...
12:33pm Wed 16 Mar 11
Dantealighieri
says...
12:57pm Wed 16 Mar 11
slumdogg
says...
1:34pm Wed 16 Mar 11
.
A bit daft, and xenophobic to the point of resenting the people on the other side of the road. Not only do you support a political party which only exists in order to make a United Kingdom independent (bit of an oxymoron) but you now seek independence from people a couple of miles away. You'll be seeking independence from your self next week.
.
Consumed by a desperate desire to reassert your incorrect belief that you are superior to someone, you constantly weedle out ways to diminish others. The more you diminish them, the greater you appear in comparison. I know poeple like you. You suck up, and kick down.
.
I already knew you would feel an affinity with Purple Hayes. Explain how Purple Hayes isn't trying to get something for nothing by not paying his council tax. You know..will he wear a blind fold at night so as not to benefit from street lights? Will he do it when he is driving? Will he resurface roads? Will he dig a cess pit? Sweep the pavement? etc.
.
Do leave off Olive!
spenser says...
1:17pm Tue 8 Mar 11
What about the council run care homes Councillor Green?