'Don't get ideas' - council leader's warning to anyone considering joining tax rebellion

Stand-off: Scene at Birkenhead County Court yesterday Stand-off: Scene at Birkenhead County Court yesterday

The leader of Wirral Council has told anyone thinking of joining a rebel protest against paying council tax: "Don't get any ideas."

His call came after hundreds of anti-establishment demonstrators stormed Birkenhead County Court yesterday and "arrested" a judge.

Roads were blockaded and dozens of police officers deployed to keep order.

A stand-off followed with several demonstrators staging a sit-down protest in front of police vehicles, refusing to let them pass.

Several arrests were made and police dog-handlers called to the scene.

The protestors were from the anti-establishment "British Constitution Group."

The demonstration was sparked when one of the prominent voices in the BCG, Wirral man Roger Hayes, faced a hearing for non-payment of council tax.

Mr Hayes believes the tax is unlawful.

Today town hall chief Cllr Jeff Green told the Globe: “Have these people given any thought to what happens to the likes of Sure Start, public libraries or other services that people depend on?

"Not many people like paying tax but we accept the need for tax.

"I am disappointed that this case has been adjourned, but in the light of the events that took place, understand the court’s decision.

"However, before anyone else gets any ideas about not paying their council tax, let me assure everyone that Wirral Council is stepping up its activity to ensure that everyone pays their fair share.

"Nobody is above the law.”

Six people were arrested following yesterday's disturbance. Two are appearing before magistrates today.

Comments(49)

spenser says...
1:17pm Tue 8 Mar 11

Today town hall chief Cllr Jeff Green told the Globe: “Have these people given any thought to what happens to the likes of Sure Start, public libraries or other services that people depend on?

What about the council run care homes Councillor Green?

wotmnisnttkn says...
1:18pm Tue 8 Mar 11

I quote:
“Have these people given any thought to what happens to the likes of Sure Start, public libraries or other services that people depend on?..."

I think that is precisely why these people do not want to pay so much of this tax. They are deemed a waste of money. The whole system squanders our money.

The council tax is no contract of service. It is not written, implied, agreed nor is it a bona fide bill. It is entirely an unlawful imposition.

Nobody else can demand with menaces money for things people do not need nor want!

Make it lawful then there will be no excuse.

dreamweaver2012 says...
1:47pm Tue 8 Mar 11

Tough luck, Cllr Jeff Green, I think you'll find plenty more people are going to "get ideas" from this, in Wirral and across the rest of the country. We are not your slaves.

nikg says...
2:25pm Tue 8 Mar 11

Wirral Globe's 'poll question' is a joke and completely misses the point. 'Is it ever right to not pay tax?'; of course if we were living in an absolutist dictatorship, it could be argued rebellion would be right.

Anyone who thinks this country is a dictatorship is living in a dream world. We have democratic elections every four years, transparency in local council spending, free trade and we protect our citizens (farmers for instance) against the realities of the outside world.

Try moving to China and see how 'free' you feel.

bob wirral says...
4:25pm Tue 8 Mar 11

tell you what, i am definately going along when that chap appears in court next!

nikg says...
4:34pm Tue 8 Mar 11

The Ministry of Justice is entirely right to assert that Britain does not have a single, written constitution in the way that the USA does. The USA's federal system was designed to protect the right to self-govern of its constituent states - Britain is so small a country, and has so great a level of internal migration between cities that is has never been thought necessary to split it into 'territories' with individual rights and power to legislate, until devolution.

If you were suggesting that Britain should vote en masse, through the parliamentary system of universal suffrage that countless thousands have died to protect and extend, to oust the ruling parties, then I would respect your position, however naive it is.

To say that Magna Carta represents anything other than a rallying cry for disaffected landowners and luddites after the Civil War is similarly naive.

Spiffy says...
4:44pm Tue 8 Mar 11

Tunis, Cairo, Manama, Benghazi, Tripoli, Libya....Birkenhead ! :)

O.M.G...security words are: hang-bank

hahahahahahahahahaha
hahahahahaha

ahhh....(deep breath)

hahahahahahahahaha

brilliant !

bickyboy says...
7:50pm Tue 8 Mar 11

Cllr Green's comment will be a red rag to a bull to anyone who has been considering not paying their council tax in protest against the incompetence and hypocrisy of our politicians. Not only that, but his arrogant remarks may well have inflamed the situation by persuading some of us who wouldnt normally dream of defaulting on our council tax bills to consider it. There probably arent enough prison cells or bankruptcy courts in the entire Western World to hold all those British citizens who are sick of the incompetence and arrogance of successive UK governments, and who would welcome the chance to stage an effective mass protest.

herrman says...
8:28pm Tue 8 Mar 11

It's a proud tradition for people who are unhappy with rules, laws and implementation of same, to vigorously protest and be sure their voices are heard. In some cases, it is certainly justified to move forward with actions that are beyond words.

Always you will find the entrenched power elite to try to hold onto power as much as they can. Take a look at Gaddafi and what he is doing to hold on to power. The question is, are you willing to risk life and limb to obtain the guarantees and results you want?

FLYING COLOURS says...
2:27am Wed 9 Mar 11

Today town hall chief Cllr Jeff Green told the Globe: “Have these people given any thought to what happens to the likes of Sure Start, public libraries or other services that people depend on?

"Not many people like paying tax but we accept the need for tax.

....And this from one of the traitors getting YOU the tax payer, including pensioners, to pay his and his cronies pensions!! We, Freedom Rebels, should start renaming the town halls by their German Master's name for Town Hall - " RATHAUS " - - with the emphasis on RAT !!

Stiofan says...
5:06am Wed 9 Mar 11

Article 61 of the Magna Carta was repealed. It doesn't actually exist anymore. I have been looking it up for a while as I, like millions of others, are part of the pro-Freedom movement and we want to leave the European Union and become, once again, a free and Sovereign power.

slumdogg says...
5:46am Wed 9 Mar 11

John Lilburn anyone?

bobwillis says...
8:29am Wed 9 Mar 11

"We have democratic elections every four years. " We do. We get to vote for different cheeks of the same arse.

Spiffy says...
8:49am Wed 9 Mar 11

Stiofan wrote:
Article 61 of the Magna Carta was repealed. It doesn't actually exist anymore. I have been looking it up for a while as I, like millions of others, are part of the pro-Freedom movement and we want to leave the European Union and become, once again, a free and Sovereign power.
Did you look here : http://www.silentmaj
ority.co.uk/
...
"Magna Carta is variously described as a covenant, contract or treaty. It is not an Act of Parliament. As we understand it, Magna Carta cannot be repealed by parliament. As a contract between sovereign and subjects, it can be breached only by one party or the other, but even in the breach it still stands. It is a mutual, binding agreement of indefinite duration. Any breach merely has the effect of giving the offended party rights of redress."
...
Interesting stuff.

Wirralrob says...
1:13pm Wed 9 Mar 11

Cllr Jeff Gaddaffi needs to take a long look at how much money of ours he spends on his own lavish lifestyle.

The_Wirral_Forum says...
1:28pm Wed 9 Mar 11

Jeff Green you are a silly person using them 3 simple words "Don't get ideas" people are not going to stand for them cocky remarks.

I or my wife have never heard of this group but we will be supporting them fully from now and i know a lot more who will be following them also.

If everyone stops paying these council tax bills you would not be able to do a things because there would be to many people against it.

Mass protests needs to continue weekly, which i am sure they will.

We do not get our moneys worth for the bills we pay you, and the police just waste the money by ragging there vehicles around and our money goes towards there repairs.

And you should be ashamed of how many police turned up at that small protest and driving up one way streets the wrong way and could not even control there police dogs, there was people standing on the curb watching and the dogs where ripping things from there hands, would you let other peoples dogs do this?

West Wirral Reader says...
6:10pm Wed 9 Mar 11

I'd imagine most of us could walk into the town wall and scrap waste, starting first in the council chamber.

Wirral hasn't been democratic in years.

The fact that this local coalition, just like the last, is only effective because the turncoat Lib-Dems will work with anyone as long as they get to sit on lucrative outside bodies, tells you all you need to know.

If they really did care about Wirral, they'd shake up the council chamber to start with (by reducing members from three per ward to one; or 66 to 22) and then take a long hard look at the pen pushers in highways (you only need engineers; contractors do the rest of it); planning (nine people to advise on one decision is madness); publicity (you're the corpy - not a pop group)..... the list goes on.

I still don't see why the chief exec who is a dead cert to be Jim Wilkie anyway after an expensive advertising and head-hunting campaign needs to be paid over £100k a year. Or even over £50k a year for that matter.

If these people were really any good they'd be in the private sector. Pretending the corpy is in any way similar to a money making business, and its staff equally driven, is beyond the realms of madness, no matter which party is in charge.

starry says...
6:11pm Wed 9 Mar 11

council tax= paying for a service, they are now on about cutting back on these services, iam not a legal eagle, but surely this is fraud. making people pay for a service they have no intention to supply ?

No.9 says...
10:23am Thu 10 Mar 11

The previous 2 comments say it all really.

Perhaps it's time more of us did "get ideas"!

td* says...
10:26am Thu 10 Mar 11

Funny, I emailed Mr Green, very politely, to discuss why people are rightly getting p***** off with being treated with contempt in this country by successive governments and why people are sick of being told what to do by the unelected cash cow that is the EU. He has declined to respond. Anytime Jeff................
...

Positive thinker says...
6:16pm Thu 10 Mar 11

Mr.green I think you should invite
These people to work with you for
A day or two,they obviously think
They could do a better job

dave301bounty says...
8:36pm Thu 10 Mar 11

The photo of the people making a noisy protest ,that says a lot .Nothing was thought out ,nobody did any organising ,it was a shambles .A LOTof hot air ,a lot of various opinions ,but the truth of the matter lies in the fact ,you in wirral put in power those in power .Same over here .You ,or anyone ,who wants change has to organise .And the voting special dosent work ,there are a group over here who know how rigged this is .You have to know ,and have some one in charge of any protest ,otherwise ,its a waste of time .The police have There orders ,you will never get anywhere without a Plan .

td* says...
8:50pm Thu 10 Mar 11

Positive thinker wrote:
Mr.green I think you should invite These people to work with you for A day or two,they obviously think They could do a better job
Absolutely, anytime...........

td* says...
8:52pm Thu 10 Mar 11

dave301bounty wrote:
The photo of the people making a noisy protest ,that says a lot .Nothing was thought out ,nobody did any organising ,it was a shambles .A LOTof hot air ,a lot of various opinions ,but the truth of the matter lies in the fact ,you in wirral put in power those in power .Same over here .You ,or anyone ,who wants change has to organise .And the voting special dosent work ,there are a group over here who know how rigged this is .You have to know ,and have some one in charge of any protest ,otherwise ,its a waste of time .The police have There orders ,you will never get anywhere without a Plan .
Really? ALL the objectives were met so it can't have been that much of a shambles.

slumdogg says...
2:28am Fri 11 Mar 11

I think these people should be sectioned.

Toryman says...
8:04am Fri 11 Mar 11

Never get any ideas; leave them for sensible people. This is only our first measure to deal with scum. If you dare to step it up you will realise how far we can take it. Your cut in benefit is only the starting point.

Toryman says...
9:11am Fri 11 Mar 11

Thankfully, and with the help of the Liberal Democrats we will get our policies across and once we have, they will never get changed. We first thought that sharing power with the Liberal Dems would be a disaster...instead we could never have hoped for anything better; at least, you are going to take half the blame, at best, and with our power, I think you will take about 80% of it. Nick Clegg was the best leader that we've never had. Thank you, Nick and all the Lib Dems, you have given us all that we wanted and we never could have done it on our own.

Toryman says...
9:18am Fri 11 Mar 11

Thankfully, and with the help of the Liberal Democrats we will get our policies across and once we have, they will never get changed. We first thought that sharing power with the Liberal Dems would be a disaster...instead we could never have hoped for anything better; at least, you are going to take half the blame, at best, and with our power, I think you will take about 80% of it. Nick Clegg was the best leader that we've never had. Thank you, Nick and all the Lib Dems, you have given us all that we wanted and we never could have done it on our own.

td* says...
9:34am Fri 11 Mar 11

Toryman wrote:
Never get any ideas; leave them for sensible people. This is only our first measure to deal with scum. If you dare to step it up you will realise how far we can take it. Your cut in benefit is only the starting point.
Cut in benefit? Who's on benefit? People are staring to awake to the liars & idiots who govern us.

Toryman says...
9:54am Fri 11 Mar 11

td* wrote:
Toryman wrote:
Never get any ideas; leave them for sensible people. This is only our first measure to deal with scum. If you dare to step it up you will realise how far we can take it. Your cut in benefit is only the starting point.
Cut in benefit? Who's on benefit? People are staring to awake to the liars & idiots who govern us.
td*, £5 Billion worth of people are on benefit; and they're not staring at it, they've already started on it, and have done for many years.

td* says...
10:06am Fri 11 Mar 11

confused.com

JOTHF. says...
3:31pm Fri 11 Mar 11

The UK Column newspaper has posted an account of the arrest of "Judge" Peake;
http://www.ukcolumn.
org/articles/arrest-
and-rescue-judge-pea
ke

Regards, JOTHF.

JOTHF. says...
3:45pm Fri 11 Mar 11

This is one of many videos on You Tube about Monday. This is for Rusty, the man in hancuffs. You'll Never Walk alone:http://www.you
tube.com/watch?v=uq1
XNe4fEzY
Regards, TOTHF

allnamestaken? says...
2:25pm Sat 12 Mar 11

The rebellious people of LIVERPOOL have now gone up in my estimation by a million times! People with integrity and guts who have had to tolerate a terrible situation for far too long. Unlike the slimey two faced scum that order us around like cattle.
Best wishes to you all from a Londoner who would now like to nominate LIVERPOOL as the new capital of england.

Dantealighieri says...
6:02pm Sat 12 Mar 11

Allnamestaken-This has got nothing to do with Liverpool. The protest happened outside Birkenhead County Court. Birkenhead is in Wirral, and Wirral is not in Liverpool. The protesters came from all over the country, in support of Mr Roger Hayes, a Wirral gentleman. Mr Hayes's non-payment of council tax is on a matter of principle, right or wrong. The people of Liverpool who do not pay their council tax, do not do so on a matter of principle, but because they would rather sponge off the rest of society.

macbone says...
8:55pm Sat 12 Mar 11

Did anyone notice that £20 million of Wirral council tax is spent on buses, most of which run round empty. That's £54,000 per day, this could pay the salaries of an extra 1/2 dozen new Directors of departments. Think how beneficial that would be!

Roger Hayes says...
9:25pm Sat 12 Mar 11

Roger Hayes, Wallasey says...
8:40pm Sat 12 Mar 11

As readers might gather from my user name... I am the Roger Hayes who is refusing to pay my council tax - because it is unlawful.

I do not hide behind a false name - I am proud to stand up for what I believe to be right.

I note that Jeff Green, leader of the council is big on rhetoric, he says 'Nobody is above the law' - but seems to conveniently omit to mention that the core of this issue is that the council themselves are breaking the law... the word hypocrisy springs to mind.

I also note the Jeff Green jumps to the age old political tactic of pulling at the heart-strings - i.e. 'what about Sure Start' - Indeed Mr Green what about Sure Start ? Why are we paying a corporate executive £250 000 ? WHO voted for him?
And what about the junkets... the expenses, the waste... I could go on. In fact Mr Green not only could I go on... but I WILL go on to expose the lies deceit and corruption... until the people of the Wirral get a fair system of taxation that more correctly reflects the services that they receive.

Let's talk about waste and corruptiuon... as well as Sure Start and Libraries MR GREEN.

The vast majority of council workers are good hard working peoiple who are worth every penny they get paid... but my gripe is not with them... it is with the corrupt party political system that has dominated our system of governance for far too long and who have, in a collective fashion, feathered their nests at our expense.

I am giving a presentation on the 22nd March at the Hollins Hey Hotel - New Brighton 7pm. If you want to find out the truth about why I am not paying my council tax... and why you should LAWFULLY withhold your tax... all are welcome. INCLUDING Mr Green, who I would suggest take his head out of his sanctimonious and patronising bottom and come and find out just why we are all so angry.

Come and listen to the people Mr Green - I dare you.

I regret that I am charging £10 for the evening - to cover costs, but I can promise the best £10 you will spend in a long time. Please call 0781 352 9383 to book a seat.

By not paying your council tax... you will force them to listen to your views... keep paying and they will ignore you.

hugo2008 says...
9:10am Sun 13 Mar 11

Jeff Green, When are you going to live up to promises your made while in opposition where is the ,Openness, Fairness, and Transparency in all council dealings.

You have yet to clean out all the dead wood that brought Wirral Council Services to such a low repute.

And do not forget the so called legal advice and the people who denied you access to information you had a perfect right to see, over the libraries fiasco.

or perhaps that was all a sham on your part.

Remember People, if your local councillor has been in office for more than three years, DO NOT RE-ELECT THEM, pick a new face no matter what political party you support.
That way Councillors and for that matter MPs will get the message to listen to the electorate.

Positive thinker says...
9:27pm Sun 13 Mar 11

I think Mr.Green has got more important
Things on his agenda than to come and
Listen to a load of 1 hit wonders talking
A load of hot air,cant wait to hear about
All the empty seats

hedles says...
9:32pm Sun 13 Mar 11

Spiffy wrote:
Stiofan wrote:
Article 61 of the Magna Carta was repealed. It doesn't actually exist anymore. I have been looking it up for a while as I, like millions of others, are part of the pro-Freedom movement and we want to leave the European Union and become, once again, a free and Sovereign power.
Did you look here : http://www.silentmaj

ority.co.uk/
...
"Magna Carta is variously described as a covenant, contract or treaty. It is not an Act of Parliament. As we understand it, Magna Carta cannot be repealed by parliament. As a contract between sovereign and subjects, it can be breached only by one party or the other, but even in the breach it still stands. It is a mutual, binding agreement of indefinite duration. Any breach merely has the effect of giving the offended party rights of redress."
...
Interesting stuff.
The reason you may have been a little confused about this Stiofan is that there are (at least) two Magna Carta's.

The original (and best!) was the above covenant referred to in the quote posted by Spiffy. This was signed by King John on the Isle of Runnymede in 1215.

Much later in 1297, an Act of Parliament confusingly given the same name was passed. (Parliament, as such, didn't exist in 1215.)

The 1297 Act was very different to the 1215 covenant. My current understanding is that several clauses were left out completely - among them article 61 (sometimes known as "chapter 61") and most of the remaining clauses were edited and renumbered. Hence there is sometimes some confusion about which clause is being referred to if only the number is given. There is a clause 61, however, only in the original 1215 document, so this number should be unambiguous.

The fact that the two are referred to by the same name is simply confusing. Possibly deliberately so! It would be better to think of the Act of Parliament as, say, "An Act of Parliament establishing the fundamental freedoms of the freemen of England", 1297. That might help to dispel some of the fog.

Now whatever you call it, the Act of Parliament, Magna Carta, is a 'possession' of Parliament, so they can amend it repeal it or monkey around with it to their heart's content. And, in fact, the latest law books state that only four of the original sections of the act remain in force, the others all having been repealed, or superseded by other legislation throughout the intervening years.

All this, however, has and can have no bearing at all upon the Magna Carta covenant or peace treaty signed by King John and agreed directly with the people of this country, which is a completely separate agreement.

So, technically, it is incorrect to state as you do that Chapter 61 of Magna Carta (Act of Parliament) was repealed. Chapter 61 of the Act never existed! That, however, cannot render ineffective the chapter by that number in the covenant.

Interestingly and significantly, a similar relationship exists between the Declaration of Rights, 1688 and the Bill of Rights, 1689.

The Declaration of Rights was an agreement made between the King William of Orange (and equally with his wife Queen Mary) and the people of England, which was a condition on the couple accepting jointly the throne of England and was, by their hands, binding upon all their heirs and successors to the throne and is therefore still in force today - a position which has been reinforced in the Coronation Oath of every subsequent monarch of England and the UK.

The Bill of Rights, 1689 is an almost identical Act of Parliament passed several months later.


Regarding Magna Carta Winston Churchill wrote, in his History of The English-Speaking Peoples,

"…and when in subsequent ages the state, swollen with its own authority, has attempted to ride roughshod over the rights and liberties of the subject it is to this doctrine that appeal has again and again been made, and never, as yet, without success."

slumdogg says...
12:43pm Tue 15 Mar 11

NUUUURSE!!

slumdogg says...
1:00pm Tue 15 Mar 11

I'll be there. With a social worker and a GP. Lets get this man some help!

slumdogg says...
1:14pm Tue 15 Mar 11

Dante, you small minded, Royston Vasey dwelling hobbit. Explain to us all, what is the difference in not paying council tax either side of a river? If you live on one side, it is a noble act of rebellion? If you live on the other bank, you are a scrounger? You are a prize winning dolt dante.

slumdogg says...
1:26pm Tue 15 Mar 11

As readers will gather from my user name, I am slumdogg who thinks these people need a spell in hospital.
.
Unless I am mistaken, the Globe have removed one of my Posts. Astounding! They can leave some of this guff up, but remove a post in which I pointed out the fact that the Hollins Hey hotel has some extremely bad reviews on tripadvisor.

td* says...
5:29pm Tue 15 Mar 11

slumdogg wrote:
As readers will gather from my user name, I am slumdogg who thinks these people need a spell in hospital. . Unless I am mistaken, the Globe have removed one of my Posts. Astounding! They can leave some of this guff up, but remove a post in which I pointed out the fact that the Hollins Hey hotel has some extremely bad reviews on tripadvisor.
Perhaps it was removed because you're a prat. Perhaps you should visit the hospital to see what they can do about your state brainwashing.

slumdogg says...
10:13pm Tue 15 Mar 11

Hadn't considered that one t*ss*r, thanks.
.
By the way, while you were at the shops, your place was searched and all your belongings were replaced with identical replicas. Isn't a sprat a small fish, sort of like whitebait?
.
Large Haloperidol for t*ss*r please!

td* says...
12:33pm Wed 16 Mar 11

Cuckooo, it seems to me that it may be you who could benefit from antipsychotic medication. There there settle down and relax it will all be ok.

Dantealighieri says...
12:57pm Wed 16 Mar 11

Slumdog- I wasn't drawing a comparison between people not paying council tax on one side of the river or other. I was comparing the none payment of council tax on this side of the Mersey by one person, the admirable, if slightly eccentric, Mr Roger Hayes, on the grounds that he thinks the council tax is unlawful, and the £12 million owed by 'dem over der'. Whether Mr Hayes is right or wrong, the courts will decide. My little dig at the non-paying council tax scousers was an attempt to add weight to their inbred historical pride in being a little bit 'edgy'. After all, being called a 'scally' for normal people would be an insult, to the scouser it brings a warm glow of satisfaction. However, there's no need for you to feel upset on their behalf, the country has laughed its cotton socks off for years as Liverpool comics have made a good living telling jokes about their 'mates, like yer know, like lad' being much smarter than the rest of us at getting something for nothing. If you throw mud, even funny mud, it tends to stick. With regards to Mr. Hayes, I rather like the chap. I haven't read all the stuff regarding his case, but he, and his followers seem quite bright, obviously UKIP supporters, and this sort of thing does tend to add to the gaiety of the nation in these troubled times.

slumdogg says...
1:34pm Wed 16 Mar 11

I doubt if any one takes pleasure in being given a negative image. But maybe you believe it is possible because you are a bit daft.
.
A bit daft, and xenophobic to the point of resenting the people on the other side of the road. Not only do you support a political party which only exists in order to make a United Kingdom independent (bit of an oxymoron) but you now seek independence from people a couple of miles away. You'll be seeking independence from your self next week.
.
Consumed by a desperate desire to reassert your incorrect belief that you are superior to someone, you constantly weedle out ways to diminish others. The more you diminish them, the greater you appear in comparison. I know poeple like you. You suck up, and kick down.
.
I already knew you would feel an affinity with Purple Hayes. Explain how Purple Hayes isn't trying to get something for nothing by not paying his council tax. You know..will he wear a blind fold at night so as not to benefit from street lights? Will he do it when he is driving? Will he resurface roads? Will he dig a cess pit? Sweep the pavement? etc.
.
Do leave off Olive!

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