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Wirral ready for new Home Secretary's crackdown on yobs (From Wirral Globe)
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Wirral ready for new Home Secretary's crackdown on yobs
4:24pm Thursday 2nd July 2009
Wirral Council says it is ready to respond to the launch of a new crackdown by the Home Secretary on anti-social behaviour.
In his first speech since taking over at the Home Office, Alan Johnson is to set out details of a website recording what councils are doing to tackle the problem of yobs.
The site will show the public how many yobs have been hit with anti-social behaviour orders, how many parents have been given parenting orders and how many closure orders have been issued against crack dens.
It is hoped the site will help the public hold town halls to account over what steps they are taking to deal with the issue.
Councillor George Davies, cabinet member for housing and community safety, said: “In Wirral, working with our partner agencies, we are already committed to tackling anti-social behaviour and its underlying causes.
"Wirral’s Anti-Social Behaviour Team is frequently held up as an example of good practice in the field and we pride ourselves in using every tool at our disposal to not only take action, but also make sure the public get to know about these actions.
"Any plans to extend powers further and raise the profile even more are welcome.”
Earlier this month Mr Johnson said the Government had been guilty of "coasting" on anti-social behaviour issues and pledged to redouble its efforts.
He said: "People will be able to see how many crack houses have been closed, how many antisocial behaviour orders have been issued and how many parenting orders have been issued."
He told The Times: "I want to ensure there is particular emphasis on antisocial behaviour.
"I think we have done an awful lot on that and we have kind of coasted a bit.
"What I think we have done is rested on our laurels. We need a new drive on antisocial behaviour."
Mr Johnson, who took over from Jacqui Smith earlier this month, also said people on housing estates felt ignored by the authorities.
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Your Say Your Globe
kmka, prenton says...
8:04am Fri 3 Jul 09
Spiffy, Wallasey says...
9:49am Fri 3 Jul 09
kmka wrote:Hear hear !
No actual action then, just more number crunching and statistics. We don't want web sites, we want action.
They better hurry up before decent people decide they have had enough and the entire country descends into civil war.
Just because we don't fight back doesn't mean we can't. It means we know full well that the law will come back at us instead of this scum. Perhaps one day we just won't care anymore.
How ironic that the security words I see for this post are "live-free" !
kmka, prenton says...
10:33am Fri 3 Jul 09
Caped Crusader, Wallasey says...
11:55am Fri 3 Jul 09
Get out from behind your security code protected doors and talk to the real people, who might give you a clue as to causes of the problem.
Do not just treat the symptoms. Look & at treat the disease!
My security word is "find rock"
kmka, prenton says...
12:20pm Fri 3 Jul 09
slumdog, wallasey says...
1:17pm Fri 3 Jul 09
Caped Crusader wrote:What do you think the causes are Batman? Are you suggesting there will be riots on the streets of Walasey?
So the 9 to 5 "Empire", high pay/secure job & pension desk jockeys, (Wirral ASBO team),are going to save us from this coming summer's neighbourhood meltdown? Get out from behind your security code protected doors and talk to the real people, who might give you a clue as to causes of the problem. Do not just treat the symptoms. Look & at treat the disease! My security word is "find rock"
robo5o, rock ferry says...
2:37pm Fri 3 Jul 09
Caped Crusader, Wallasey says...
2:57pm Fri 3 Jul 09
Riots? Get real!
If paid people want to pick my brain..Expertise the "not so" common sense comes at a price.
Knowledge is power. Peace & a good night's sleep comes from a clear conscience.
"BONE-STAR"
slumdog, wallasey says...
4:48pm Fri 3 Jul 09
Batman, I'll give you another chance to explain yourself: what do you mean by 'this coming summer's neighbourhood meltdown?
What, in your opinion, will be the causes?
kmka, prenton says...
6:56pm Fri 3 Jul 09
robo5o, rock ferry says...
7:45pm Fri 3 Jul 09
slumdog, wallasey says...
8:12pm Fri 3 Jul 09
Off licence owners should be severely fined for selling to kids. should be Dont know about the bars and amoured cars robo, but the little tykes certainly are a nuisance (putting it comedically mildly) It seems to me though that it is the political right with its every man for himself attitude that has encouraged people to become ever more disrespectfull of each other.
Mercury1, Wallasey says...
9:20pm Fri 3 Jul 09
Slumdog is a Council plant/apologist whatever he/she says.
kmka, prenton says...
11:10pm Fri 3 Jul 09
,lets face it, there are no consequences now, except maybe for a caution) When I was a child I remember being brought home by the police because I didn't have lights on my bike. That would certainly not happen now, as the family would claim victimisation/assaul
t/racism or some other look at me,I'm a victim, give me compensation type argument.Back then We knew that the police would act so we behaved. Now the police are too frightened of getting sued that they would rather not get involved. This is a sad state of affairs. Some parents couldn't care less attitude is also a factor, as is the lack of discipline/teachers rights. There is no respect for authority anymore, and it starts from a young age. Wow, that was some rant wasn't it?
slumdog, wallasey says...
1:43am Sat 4 Jul 09
kmka, Why dont these people claim victimisation when given a caution then? I'm sure they would rather have been taken home, as might have happend in our day. If the police were too frightend of getting sued they would not beat women with sticks in public.
Respect does have to be earned and not given out of intimidation. That goes both ways!
The kids we see on the street behaving so badly are the children and grandchildren of people who have gradually become worse by the generation. Whatever supposedly stricter rules we had then didnt stop their progress. The point we have reached now is one where they do not believe any one else counts, so they simply do not care. Maybe we have finally achieved what Thatcher set out to when she declared there was 'no such thing as society' What we have now is not so much a society, but lots of inividuals with only their own self interests.
Mercury1 is the Beegees dentist whatever he/she says
Caped Crusader, Wallasey says...
6:02am Sat 4 Jul 09
It is not just the road surface which melts!
You can go the criminal complaint route via the Police, (faster & more immediate impact).
Or the ASBO Line and civil Incident route and possible civil Court order, which can take several months.
By the way many young people get teir alcohol from inside & around their own homes.
This raises the question of WHY does Wirral keep granting small shops liquor licenses, when it fuels so much local disorder?
Someone should do a count of the number of small shops selling liquor in Liscard/Wallaasy, New Brighton.
High Alcohols sales profit for shops = Big problem for neighourhoods?
robo5o, rock ferry says...
8:15am Sat 4 Jul 09
kmka, prenton says...
11:28am Sat 4 Jul 09
kmka, prenton says...
11:54am Sat 4 Jul 09
kmka, prenton says...
2:53pm Sat 4 Jul 09
slumdog, wallasey says...
3:10pm Sat 4 Jul 09
It is a fact that We have a lot more laws and rules than we used to, but people who care only about themselves do not obey rules. Ancient and cruel forms of punishment like Floggings, beheadings, hangings etc never stopped crime in the past and they wouldn't now. Criminal Justice is often just collective retribution.
People stop behaving badly when they realise it is wrong, not when they are punished for something they dont understand to be wrong in the first place. These people are idiots kmka. It is neccessary to educate people in order for them to become civilised. My kids have never behaved this way and nor have their friends. Nor did I, and nor did my parents. I remember people did though and I bet its their progeny who mostly do now.
slumdog, wallasey says...
3:21pm Sat 4 Jul 09
robo5o, rock ferry says...
4:53pm Sat 4 Jul 09
kmka, prenton says...
5:58pm Sat 4 Jul 09
kmka, prenton says...
6:49pm Sat 4 Jul 09
Dantealighieri , west kirby says...
8:08pm Sat 4 Jul 09
slumdog, wallasey says...
12:22pm Sun 5 Jul 09
These 'rogue' officers were operating as members of teams. None would have been turned in by their colleagues, and I think that makes the situation a little more than rogue. The police also had their faces covered and in many cases their ID numbers (illegally) They too must presumably have been up to no good then?
Are you seriously suggesting that slapping a woman and hitting her with a stick is acceptible under any circumstances at all?
A man died, after being attacked by another 'rogue' officer. He was not even part of the protest. There are also many more cases waiting to be heard and The Met have started to pay many claimants off before they get to court and have a chance to show the public what really happened. If you consider London or other parts of the country to be irrelevant, then how about Terence Warren, from Hillcroft road (Poulton Rd) He was punched in the face and thrown to the ground by a sergeant. He had moved his car, some hours earlier, to allow a fire engine through, and wanted to put it back outside his own house. This is a man with an artificial knee who was minding his grandchildren at home at the time. You see the Police are not recruited from some other place, they are recruited from the same place we live in. You meet decent people and morons in every walk of life, its just that some of them have badges.
Your point about police time and resources being scarce is one cited by many, but here is a personal experience of mine that I found incredible:I once interrupted a serious sexual assault in Liverpool. The man ran off and I called the Police. I spoke to the woman and tried to reassure her that help was on the way. I waited for 40 minutes for the Police! By the time they turned up the woman had gone home with her friend. I gave the one male officer who had attended all of my contact details and I have not heard a word from him since. This was five years ago.
What do you think they migh have been doing that night that took priority for the best part of an hour and how would you feel if that was your wife/daughter/mother
? How would you feel if it was your wife/daughter/mother would had been astonishingly assaulted in London whilst this mans colleaues took no notice? would you say 'oh well it was hardly a beating'? Do you think it is ok to hit women as long as you don't 'beat' them kmka?
Robo, I too know people in similar circumstances to those you describe and it disgusts me that people should feel so intimidated. Unfortunately, and you probably know this too, the creatures we are discussing really are from the very bottom of the deepest pond. The recent change from Police Force to Police Service is quite an amusing attempt at re-branding.... I know we've been getting a bit of bad press lately, so instead of changing our behaviour lets just change our name. Service! yes that sounds much nicer than 'Force' doesn't it? I dont think the police are PC for one second. I think they like to appear to be sometimes. the police have always been regarded by most as untouchable and above criticism, as has anyone working in the Health Service. Just lately though we have had two reported incidents of people dying because paramedics just couldn't be bothered, or wanted to eat teir sandwhiches instead of taking people to hospital. I don't know if this is a new phenomena but I doubt it. If you say anything bad about 'nurses' though it is regarded as worse than heresey.
Dante, if you have anything costructive to say then lets hear it. Off to bash my pulpit now.
slumdog, wallasey says...
12:50pm Sun 5 Jul 09
kmka, prenton says...
5:08pm Sun 5 Jul 09
As for the police turning up to your incident after an hour, they probably had to fill in reports and risk assessments (inplimented by a useless government) before they left the station, and probably had to fill in a lot more when they got back. As I have stated before, in my dealings with the police I have found them nothing but professional and understanding. They want to do more but are restricted by legislation and paperwork.
The rebranding of the police was implimented by managers, not the bobby on the beat.These managers are only interested in hitting targets,and justifying thier own jobs, they are not interested in the general public.
You state that the officers were working in teams. This sounds organised and authorised. Authorised by who? the chief of police or the home secretary? Nothing is as cut and dried as it first appears.
The man that died (tragically) was pushed by a police officer, granted. This was assault, but I am sure that the officer never meant to do any serious harm, and I am sure that the incident haunts him. We do not know what happened to that officer before this happened. Was he himself attacked? Was adrenaline a factor? Sadly we will probably never know. We seem to have got off the issue we where originally debating, however this is all relevant.
Mercury1, Wallasey says...
6:34pm Sun 5 Jul 09
Can't believe I am saying this but I have to agree with everything Slumdog said in his last effort.
Sorry kmka but the police are there to serve us, not attack or harass us. If they can't control themselves then they should not be in the job. By covering any identifying numbers they are breaking the law and it is no excuse to say they might get followed home or whatever. Be a brave person who tried to harass a copper to such an extent! I've seen them arrest a pregnant woman on trumped up charges of theft, simply because a "fellow freemason" wanted to sack her without paying compensation. It goes on more than you think.
People want to be extremely careful about what they wish for. We are already seeing people arrested under the terrorism act that has nothing to do with terrorism. Peaceful protest is not allowed within a certain area around Parliament and to me, being able to protest anywhere is a fundamental right. Lose that right and the dictators take over.
kmka, prenton says...
9:04pm Sun 5 Jul 09
I agree that there is a tendancy for the police to close ranks and protect their own, this is something that needs to stop, but how do you do that?
I missed a few points from slumdogs last post, for instance I obviously would be devastated if what was described happened to a relative of mine, we all would.
I am not so sure that when the woman was assaulted, that the colleagues took no notice, it may be that they where so preoccupied with what went on, that it failed to register. (This is a very common phenomenon that is seen in situations like this)Or maybe they had made a pact before the protests to cover each others backs. I personally think it was a bit of both. Thankfully there where plenty of cameras around, as well as news reporters and cctv(oh no!!) One thing I did hear after these incidents is that a new law was being rushed through to prevent members of the public from filming or photographing a police officer in the course of duty. This, if true, is just sinister.
What I wish for, really, is a council that acts on anti social behaviour, quickly and fairly. A police force that has plenty of resources, lots of bobbies on the beat (with someone to do their paperwork for them so they can just get on with the job). And generally an end to todays violent and couldn't care less culture.
kmka, prenton says...
9:46pm Sun 5 Jul 09
Slumdog. Good citizens award to you for getting involved when you came across the assault. A lot of people would have walked by. This is another downfall for society.But that is a completely different debate. Anyway you are to be congratulated.
Spiffy, Wallasey says...
10:30pm Sun 5 Jul 09
I'd like to do an experiment of my own. Re-house MPs all in the one street for a year and give them the same access to help controlling anti-social behaviour that we have. No special favours whatsoever.
I wonder how long it would be before at least one of them lost the plot and tried to chase a yob down the street with a baseball bat. What would their tolerance level be ?
slumdog, wallasey says...
11:40am Mon 6 Jul 09
kmka, thanks for your comments about the incident in Liverpool. I appreciate them. I found the experience pretty depressing.
I dont know how I would react given the same circumstances, but I have not been trained at great expense. I do know that I would not have slapped that woman however. The way the man hit her with the stick is beyond reasoning. It looked like the SS rounding up Jews.
I'm sure that scumbags must take advantage of large crowds for all kinds of reasons - pickpockets, looters, general hooligans etc, but if you're looking for reasons why peacefull protest sometimes turn violent you should look up a tactic the police like to call Kettling. This involves trapping large numbers of people at random, keeping them there for hours with no toilets, water or food and gradually forcing them in on each other. They used the same device at a demonstration in Hyde park weeks before the G20. They allowed a large group of mainly women and kids into an underpass, then decided to block either end for about three hours. Nice!
Kettling! what a marvelous way to restore order and inspire respect from people who are paying your wages!
The police should be better funded and resourced and like the rest of society they too should be rid of any trace of 'violent and couldn't care less culture'
Spiffy, I think that would be agreat idea with MP's, we should put one in each such street though instead of together. They would get a better feel for the reality then.
slumdog, wallasey says...
9:02pm Mon 6 Jul 09
Dantealighieri , west kirby says...
10:59pm Mon 6 Jul 09
Spiffy, Wallasey says...
11:02pm Mon 6 Jul 09
slumdog, wallasey says...
11:34pm Mon 6 Jul 09
I was just wondering why nobody had left any comments on the story headed 'My Sincere Thanks'? It's something nice for a change. I know spiffy has!
Spiffy, Wallasey says...
11:52pm Mon 6 Jul 09
kmka, prenton says...
8:07am Tue 7 Jul 09
Is the answer 27?
kmka, prenton says...
8:12am Tue 7 Jul 09
Not sure if I heard right but there is a rumour that the ID cards are going to be rolled out across the whole of the north west. Is this good?
Spiffy, Wallasey says...
10:37am Tue 7 Jul 09
kmka, prenton says...
10:45am Tue 7 Jul 09
Spiffy, Wallasey says...
11:47am Tue 7 Jul 09
It will not immediately be "compulsory" for anyone in a position to threaten national security ie airport workers to have ID cards but anyone who may need them - ie young people buying alcohol - will now have the oppertunity to apply for them "voluntarily".
Given that there are already any number of ways to prove age to buy alcohol I don't believe ID cards are entirely necessary and this was certainly not their original purpose.
It is a slippery slope that people are being given the oppertunity to step onto voluntarily and in the name of "choice".
Be careful what you wish for.
kmka, prenton says...
12:44pm Tue 7 Jul 09
slumdog, wallasey says...
2:51pm Tue 7 Jul 09
Every one who applies for a passport or to renew a passport will have to have biometric details put on a national ID database though. Same thing without the card.
kmka, prenton says...
3:12pm Tue 7 Jul 09
slumdog, wallasey says...
3:15pm Tue 7 Jul 09
slumdog, wallasey says...
3:18pm Tue 7 Jul 09
kmka, prenton says...
3:19pm Tue 7 Jul 09
Police officers were given the instruction to implement an 'absolute cordon, with discretion'.
"Officers could be forgiven for finding this instruction confusing and difficult to implement."
Not quite sure what this means and I don't think the police do either.
slumdog, wallasey says...
3:40pm Tue 7 Jul 09
If they found it difficult to understand, that would explain why some officers appeared to run amock then, when people objected to not being allowed freedom of movement to go home/about their business.
Mercury1, Wallasey says...
3:44pm Tue 7 Jul 09
slumdog wrote:I'm not so sure this isn't a bad idea. We do it to pets.
Good and bad news kmka. I dont like the idea personally. In 20 years time they'll be 'chipping' us at birth if this is allowed to continue.
Who will steal a baby if chipped? Could help identify bodies, people with amnesia.
Best of all it could do away with driving licences and passports.
Ah forget it, the Government won't make any money out of it so will never implement it.
Spiffy, Wallasey says...
7:11pm Tue 7 Jul 09
I have an abundance of opinions and - whilst the allows me to express them - everyone is entitled to them.
Don't take anything too much to heart you need a thick skin to survive online.
Spiffy, Wallasey says...
7:16pm Tue 7 Jul 09
slumdog wrote:Pffffttt...this - " whilst the allows me to express them - " should have read "- whilst the LAW allows me to express them -"
Good and bad news kmka. I dont like the idea personally. In 20 years time they'll be 'chipping' us at birth if this is allowed to continue.
See, Slumdog, I am far from being a teenager and I am practically senile :(
Spiffy, Wallasey says...
7:20pm Tue 7 Jul 09
I responded to the quote and said "How do you know this doesn't happen already", hit submit and nothing happened so I corrected my flippin typo in the previous post instead. Somehow the glitched submission merged with one that went through.
Leigh Marles, says...
7:33pm Tue 7 Jul 09
Sorry to dive in and all that, but I'd really like to make a point too.
I'm a bit confused about this plan.
Is it aiming just to provide us with a list of "yobs" who have been up before the bench, some sort of new-fangled "naming and shaming" wheeze?
Because, frankly, newspapers and websites like ours and many others, including the council's own site,
already give the gen on people prosecuted for anti-social behaviour.
And, in my bitter experience, the people who ARE responsible for this sort of behaviour find being named and "shamed" nothing of the sort.
In fact they revel in the glory of being awarded the Order of the Asbo.
I dunno? What's new - and what difference will it make?
Leigh Marles, says...
7:42pm Tue 7 Jul 09
slumdog, wallasey says...
8:33pm Tue 7 Jul 09
Isn't this latest initiative the usual type of rebranding exercise we see all of the time?
Leigh Marles, says...
9:02pm Tue 7 Jul 09
Kind of blurs the line between FACTS and COMMENT, doesn't it?
I enjoy the debates/rants though, and I suppose I could make up a user-name, but that feels a bit like cheating and hiding.
I think I'll start a news blog on the website, which
would give me a chance to say what I think about things. Haha! As if anyone cares.
kmka, prenton says...
9:32pm Tue 7 Jul 09
I think that all we will get to see is a pie chart with the pecentages per head for each area in wirral. Some poor sap will have been paid to collate all this info that the council wastes time and resources collecting, and turn it into something that us mere mortals can understand. And we like pie so they will opt for a pie chart.
Spiffy, Wallasey says...
9:39pm Tue 7 Jul 09
(random but kind of appropriate comment: I miss NightJack :( )
If it works out it would interesting to read and participate in.
Haha - security word is "only-talk". I swear someone is deliberately generating these things for a laugh.
kmka, prenton says...
10:11pm Tue 7 Jul 09
Spiffy, Wallasey says...
10:29pm Tue 7 Jul 09
slumdog, wallasey says...
10:34pm Tue 7 Jul 09
I'm no stranger to a good pie my self and Im glad to hear you're not either. One of my very favourites is the pork pie from Cairns butchers in Oxton. Small but perfectly formed.
Leigh Marles, says...
10:47pm Tue 7 Jul 09
To my mind, which is obviously that of a dispassionate observer, I think it all absolutely shows how deeply tired Wirral people are of all the promises.
Irrespective of the article (who knows? maybe the 'website yobs' thing will make a difference to us), and the many views that say the thugs continue to make our lives a misery, I still think I'd rather live here in Wirral than almost anywhere else in the UK.
I'd like a vast, moated castle in Spain obviously, but...well... that's a Lottery win away!
glenn, moreton, says...
10:04am Wed 8 Jul 09
"I know, but I'm not sure I should be commenting on an article I've written!
Kind of blurs the line between FACTS and COMMENT, doesn't it?
I enjoy the debates/rants though, and I suppose I could make up a user-name, but that feels a bit like cheating and hiding.
I think I'll start a news blog on the website, which
would give me a chance to say what I think about things."
I think the Globe absolutely needs to have an editorial - this could have made a massive difference to the recent SAR. A local paper which speaks on behalf of public feeling and actually has a big influence would have made the clowncillors in the clown hall run back to their their communist state circus from moscow.
How much the people of this borough need someone to speak up for them and actually wield some power and influence to make their voices heard cannot be overstated.
Look at how successful the national tabloid campaigns are and programs like watchdog - they all speak up for the public and I think it would be a very brave move for the Globe but a positive one. People would take it an awful lot more seriously - especially the politicians. Go for it Leigh!
Mercury1, Wallasey says...
10:13am Wed 8 Jul 09
A former editor once found this out when he tried something similar.
glenn, moreton, says...
11:13am Wed 8 Jul 09
kmka, prenton says...
2:39pm Wed 8 Jul 09
Slumdog, try the steak and ale pie from the Cherry Orchard at Arrowe park. Best pie ever.
Spiffy, Wallasey says...
2:42pm Wed 8 Jul 09
A couple of revealing quotes:
"Action was originally taken against Paul Taaffe of Moreton Road, Upton, in December, 2005, when he threw bags containing household rubbish and bottles at employees of a contractor of Wirral Partnership Homes, hitting an employee in the face.
He also used foul and abusive language towards staff."
and further:
"At Birkenhead County Court on Tuesday, Taaffe was issued with an eviction order, agreed by the parties, which was suspended for two years"
FOUR YEARS from start to finish to deal with just one straightforward incident. Is this what they mean by "crackdown" ?
slumdog, wallasey says...
3:31pm Wed 8 Jul 09
I'll try that pie, and when I do I'll report back.
cheers
kmka, prenton says...
4:25pm Wed 8 Jul 09
How much does four years of work cost? I wiil sort this out for a quater of what it is costing the council and i will be a millionaire within two years.
Someone is definately watching as my security words are time-earn
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Mercury1, Wallasey says...
5:39pm Thu 2 Jul 09
Sponsored by the postal workers union, this man has said nothing about post office closures nor the recent attempt to part privatise the industry.