West Kirby hotel plans may be changed (From Wirral Globe)

West Kirby hotel plans may be changed

8:20am Wednesday 5th November 2008

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By Justin Dunn »

PLANS for a £10m development of West Kirby seafront including a new sailing school and boutique hotel may be revised after public objections.

The developers behind the ambitious scheme refute claims they have ignored criticism from local councillors and some members of the public and are instead looking at ways to incorporate them.

A meeting of the West Wirral Community Forum last week, which saw attendees vote against the current plans, led Conservative councillor Gerry Ellis to say he felt the scheme - part of a Wirral Council masterplan to rejuvenate the resort - was “doomed to failure”.

He told the Globe: “I am very disappointed in the failure of the developer to engage in meaningful consultation with councillors and the public. The council gave them a whole year in which to consult and come up with a detailed plan - this period expires in the first week of January and they are totally failing to achieve their objective.”

But in a meeting with the Globe, Alan Beer, of developers Carpenter Investments, said: “'When asked whether the consultation had been a good opportunity for them to comment, the people of West Kirby delivered a huge vote of confidence in it.

“A compelling majority of 59.3% of them said that it had been a good opportunity, compared to only 22.7% who said it had not, with 18% unsure. This vote of confidence was repeated throughout all groups of opinion, even among those who are not broadly supportive of the scheme. The message on the consultation is clear - people liked it.

“We issued 7000 invitations, met with over 1000 local people and provided every single one with the chance to comment to the developer or a representative from the council. When was the last time a proposal in West Kirby offered a forum like that?

“This means The Sail is a living issue for the people of West Kirby and not the dead one its opposition would have you believe.

“Consultation is not just about listening to the small minority who are implacably opposed to change. It means listening to supporters and the undecided as well.

“We have listened to people and, as a result, we are in the process of making significant changes to our proposals.

“If that doesn't constitute full and genuine public consultation, then I don't know what does.”

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mickeywk, wirral says...
7:02pm Wed 5 Nov 08

Was Alan at the same meeting I attended?
Overwhelming opposition to hotel development on that site, lack of confidence in Carpenter investments being able to deliver the project, and scathing criticism of the completely unprofessional approach towards public consultation.

Not to mention independant analysis of the survey material showing a completely different result to the ones they care to mention.

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johnr, West Kirby says...
7:28pm Wed 5 Nov 08

Why are they making significant changes in November, when they need to present to the Cabinet in January. The exhibition took place in June?

Is this because the public completely rejected the prom parking proposals, that apparently had nothing to do with replacing to car park with a hotel.

Asking a developer to survey public opinion is like asking to fox to look after the chickens. In June it was stated that 44% were in favour to 40% against.

However of the 1000 who attended the exhibtion 430 chose not to complete the forms, in most cases not as a result of apathy, but because they were clearly baised.

If refusal to comlete the survey is added to the no votes then 69% were against with on 23% in favour. Alan Beer obvoiusly thinks that the 6000 who did not attend are also in support.

A proper independant survey is required, after a realistic proposal is presented. Everyone I know seems to be against it. The only person Alan Beer is kidding is himself. If this development is forced though, I for one will never set a foot indside it.

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Dadoronron, West Kirby says...
9:02pm Thu 6 Nov 08

As far as I can see, the results quoted by Alan Beer refer to the number of people who responded positively to the question about whether this particular consultation exercise had been useful - not about their approval for a hotel.

Hardly surprising then that their response was positive but very, very surprising that it wasn't more so - maybe it wasn't such a good attempt at consultation after all!

For those who may not know it, this hotel business all stems from our Council's naivety in attempting to get the Sailing School rebuilt at no cost. No cost, that is, unless you count giving away a significant part of the Dee Lane car park for commercial exploitation as no cost.

You, I, Carpenter Investments and a couple of others, of course, recognised this immediately for exactly what it was and still is - an absolute gift of prime waterfront land and I, for one, am truly gobsmacked that anyone would even consider handing over such a useful and much needed public car park for such a monstrous and unwelcome development.

If the whole prefered developer selection process hadn't been conducted in such haste, my guess is that there would have been a good few more takers and we might even have seen some of real interest focussed on the original objective - the renewal of the sailing school!

Our local MP has recently asked if we think that the present sailing school is an eyesore - I wonder what he'll make of the four storey monolith proposed by Carpenters that he seems to support - in the hope that it will create the sort of worthwhile jobs that'll keep our young people here!

Finally, this hotel business has to be seen as part and parcel of an ill-conceived and poorly advertised Masterplan for West Wirral which places the possible return "The Open" every six to 10 years to the Royal Liverpool Golf Club at the heart of a strategic proposal to regenerate West Wirral.

Enough of me! If you want to get an objective view on this or any related matter can I suggest that you have a look at

www.westkirbyworking
group.org.uk

where you'll find a growing number of residents and regular visitors having their say - whatever it may be - in the future our community.

It's not often that I get to quote a US President in waiting but ....

...... while we breathe, we hope, and where we are met with cynicism, and doubt, and those who tell us that we can’t, we will respond with that timeless creed that sums up the spirit of a people:

Yes, we can!

As far as I can see, the results quoted by Alan Beer refer to the number of people who responded positively to the question about whether this particular consultation exercise had been useful - not about their approval for a hotel. Hardly surprising then that their response was positive but very, very surprising that it wasn't more so - maybe it wasn't such a good attempt at consultation after all! For those who may not know it, this hotel business all stems from our Council's naivety in attempting to get the Sailing School rebuilt at no cost. No cost, that is, unless you count giving away a significant part of the Dee Lane car park for commercial exploitation as no cost. You, I, Carpenter Investments and a couple of others, of course, recognised this immediately for exactly what it was and still is - an absolute gift of prime waterfront land and I, for one, am truly gobsmacked that anyone would even consider handing over such a useful and much needed public car park for such a monstrous and unwelcome development. If the whole prefered developer selection process hadn't been conducted in such haste, my guess is that there would have been a good few more takers and we might even have seen some of real interest focussed on the original objective - the renewal of the sailing school! Our local MP has recently asked if we think that the present sailing school is an eyesore - I wonder what he'll make of the four storey monolith proposed by Carpenters that he seems to support - in the hope that it will create the sort of worthwhile jobs that'll keep our young people here! Finally, this hotel business has to be seen as part and parcel of an ill-conceived and poorly advertised Masterplan for West Wirral which places the possible return "The Open" every six to 10 years to the Royal Liverpool Golf Club at the heart of a strategic proposal to regenerate West Wirral. Enough of me! If you want to get an objective view on this or any related matter can I suggest that you have a look at www.westkirbyworking group.org.uk where you'll find a growing number of residents and regular visitors having their say - whatever it may be - in the future our community. It's not often that I get to quote a US President in waiting but .... ...... while we breathe, we hope, and where we are met with cynicism, and doubt, and those who tell us that we can’t, we will respond with that timeless creed that sums up the spirit of a people: Yes, we can!

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Dadoronron, West Kirby says...
9:43pm Thu 6 Nov 08

Somehow lost the end of my note

Yes we can .... and we all now need to take responsibility for our part in determining and implementing what is best for our community.

If you don't speak up, you won't be heard - if you do, you may as an individual still not be heard but, if we all speak together, we will make that difference!

Yes, we will!

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Dantealighieri , west kirby says...
3:03pm Fri 7 Nov 08

Dear Alan, So delighted to hear that your consultation was such a huge success. I must admit I went a couple of times, both to express my implacable opposition to the scheme, and also to be entertained by the site of you losing your rag. The overall impression I got was that the whole thing was a bit of a farce, but seeing that there are going to be 'significant' changes to the plans, and your survey appears to find the public loved it, who am I to disagree. I am glad though that you haven't repeated the other verdict from the same survey, that there was a majority in favour of the proposals. Far be it for me to cast doubts on the veracity of the whole exercise, but it did seem rather strange that at two standing room only public meetings, on a show of hands, only a couple of people expressed support, but on a poll conducted by the organisation behind the plans there is a majority in favour! However, that's the past and it's the future that now concerns me. I now await with eager anticipation to see the changes that are to be made to the design, and how those changes will accommodate all the different shades of opinion. Also, as you say, 'The message on consultation is clear- people liked it'. Good, presumably that means you will also insist on a public consultation over the new proposals? If there isn't, then unfortunately, that will just confirm my original opinion that the Concourse Consultation by Carpenters was just another cynical PR farce.

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West Kirby hotel plans may be changed (From Wirral Globe)

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