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Vandals cause misery for allotment holders

10:08am Wednesday 16th January 2008

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ANGRY plot holders are threatening to abandon a Wirral allotment after years of vandalism and neglect.

In the latest incident, property and crops were destroyed and a shed burned down when a gang raided Thornton allotments in Bidston last weekend.

Two days later, four elderly allotment holders were subjected to a torrent of abuse while they tended their plots.

The site is regularly used as a meeting place for teenagers who drink and cause disturbance for those living nearby.

For Clive Ransom, secretary of the Thornton Allotments Association, enough is enough.

He is among those threatening to quit and has written to the council on many occasions for security fences to be installed. But his pleas have, so far, fallen on deaf ears.

He told the Globe: "The council holds regular meetings for allotment holders to try to find solutions to the problems, but the numbers attending these meetings is dwindling because nothing is being done."

The allotment opened 60 years and Mr Ransom became its secretary in March. He said: "We don't put locks on the shed doors anymore, because the vandals get them off with crowbars.

"Out of the 40 allotment sites, there are now only 15 people who regularly keep a plot. If nothing is done by the spring, I'll be going."

Mr Ransom said police have visited the site and advised the council that security is inadequate.

But it has not helped the situation, as he explained: "Wirral's town and country parks department have said there will no investment in fencing at our site and that there will be no action taken to prevent innocent citizens from the mindless vandalism inflicted upon us on a regular basis."

But a council spokesman said: "Measures are in place to improve security at the Thornton Allotment site.

"For instance, the council has arranged for the fencing to be repaired, and we are discussing a number of measures to help deter intruders.

"Council officers have met a representative of the allotment holders to discuss the problems on the site and these discussions will be ongoing," he added.

Neighbourhood Sergeant Graham Bell said: "The recent incidents have been brought to the attention of neighbourhood officers and the levels of patrolling have been stepped up in an attempt to prevent further offences.

"Criminal damage is a problem which affects many people in the community and offenders will be robustly dealt with.

"Recently we have worked with the allotment holders and other agencies in the area to address the problems of vandalism, which resulted in a security fence being put up, and that partnership work and advice is continuing. Other security measures are being progressed."

Anyone wishing to report any any information regarding vandalism should call Merseyside Police via the force's switchboard on 0151 709 6010 and ask for Laird Street Neigh-bourhood, or call Crimestoppers anonymously on 0800 555 111.

If you witness any form of criminal damage being carried out, you should dial 999.

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Your Say YourWirral Globe

SPM, Wirral says...
11:06am Wed 16 Jan 08

Same comments as the article on damage to graves. Same gangs no control. I think the allotment holders are being brave but nieve. Do you actually think you will get help from Wirral Borough council? i believe that when you are forced to give up they will sell the land for housing and squander the profits. Can anybody check to see if planning permission has been granted for change of usage for this land. Come on the Globe investigate this item.

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Jo, Moreton says...
11:34am Wed 16 Jan 08

The picture of Clive actually shows the shed that my brother, sister-in-law and I shared. We spent a lot of time, money and effort last year on the plot and this was the last straw. I don't think we were being naive at all. We knew that there would be some damage throughout the year, we just hoped that it would be minimal and that anybody working there wouldn' feel threatened. This proved not to be and many of us feel that it's no longer worth the effort. That a lot of the vandalism is done by young children is worrying( there have been witnesses to this fact).A lot occurs late at night. Where do the parents think they are? If any of the fellow allotmenteers are reading this, I just would like to say I think you're being very strong in the face of the vandalism. I just hope that it will stop for you. I am truly not up to the fight anymore.

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Jack Frost, birkenhead says...
12:17pm Wed 16 Jan 08

I wonder what would happen if one of the allotment holders managed to catch one of these brats and gave him what for... could it be classed as a form of burglary ? and hence reasonable force could be used..

So come alloto holders get your night vision goggles on, pick up your spades and stand up for your selves


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teki, Birkenhead says...
5:02pm Wed 16 Jan 08

Listen hear Captain Mainering,if those guys even LOOK at a youth they'll be up in court for intimidation. It's the f**king law, that's got us where we are today.

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Clive Ransom, Greasby says...
10:17am Thu 17 Jan 08

It is a sad fact that Roger Calvert's comments both in the article above and the printed article are misleading to the point of being untrue. The Council has no plans for the site in terms of increased security beyond a new gate: this only came about last week because when I met Ken Sutton there I had to turn my back on him and walk off before he would take things seriously. It is utterly pointless repairing the existing fence, which is a mere 3 ft high in places; our only hope is that the vandals will slip and fall on one of the spikes, which would put them off and give the Council a case to answer. Alternatively, perhaps the Council would take notice if one of our lady members was raped or a member was hospitalised because the vandalism has escalataed into face to face abuse.

The crux of the matter, as I see it, is a combination of a breakdown of common decency and a prolonged and deliberate period (some 20 years or more) of neglect by the Council.

Yesterday I received a reply from Mr Stennard (Director of Regeneration) but only after copying in Mr Maddox (Head of Wirral Council) as well as Mr Field (MP) and Mr Hesford (MP) into my 3rd attempt at soliciting a response from Mr Stennard. In his letter he attempts to belittle my attempts at contacting him - as a key decision maker in the Council I wrote specifically to him and did not expect to be fobbed off, especially given the nature of what had been going on.

Unfortunately, there is another allotment site on the Wirral that had to embarrass the Council into replacing and upgrading the inadequate (again from years of under investment and neglecting of the needs of allotments) water system. It is widely known that this was achieved through a campaign of endless emails to Mr Maddox' office and significant support through Mr Field (MP) as well as the efforts of a Councillor who has a specific interest in the site.

Perhaps we are being niaive in terms of expecting that the Council will take their responsibilities seriously and provide us with a safe environment but it is an aspiration that I believe we must be steadfast in fighting for.

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Spiffy, wallasey says...
11:31am Thu 17 Jan 08

I agree with Teki there. The law has deteriotated beyond repair.

Parents arent allowed to discipline their feral children any more even if they wanted to or cared and this is the result. You arent allowed to defend your property any more never mind the glib assurance that reasonable force can be used. There will always be a reason found as to why it wasnt and you will be prosecuted.

I have genuine fears that violence on a large scale will eventually erupt when people decide they have had enough abuse from this sector of the younger generation.

Some day something is going to give in spectacular fashion, and it certainly wont be pretty.

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ginola, kent says...
5:06pm Thu 17 Jan 08

its about time some of these little b*******s were put away u as it wont be long before someone is killed defending what is rightfully theirs its not enough to just slap their theiving vandalising dirty little hands

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teki, Birkenhead says...
8:37pm Thu 17 Jan 08

Listen,I am the grim reaper,I bring bad news,people have been killed,that burglar by the farmer and more besides and yesterday I heard that heart rending statement by the widow of that man killed by the scum of the earth. It happened yesterday,it'll happen tomorrow. We'll all forget about it next week. Unless somebody has a plan? I'll listen to it.

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Jack Frost, birkenhead says...
9:15pm Thu 17 Jan 08

Simple-ish solution..

maybe big capital But it will pay for itself within 5 years, but thats probably too long a lifecycle for the fiscal feckers.. but bear with me anyway.

Erect 20 ft fences, electrified. Electricity supplied by windpower turbines erected at each corner of the allotment, which double as gun turrets (warmed by windpower)

These can be manned by allotto holders at the weekend, armed with nothing more lethal than a high velocity paint ball repeater rifle, equipped with night vision, a freeview box and tv.

All offenders captured should then be made to dig over existing, non utilised, allotments.Wirral has 64 allotments with at least 100 plots vacant.

Let them plant, water and nurture a variety of perennials and root veg, for a period of 2 years.

The first years harvest will bloom and give the con-planter's satisfaction... the second season, just before harvest, should be destroyed.

See how they like it.

If there is no co-operation ---fertilser they be.

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teki, Birkenhead says...
9:40am Fri 18 Jan 08

I wuz being serious! Anyway I've had a think and apart from a major war(it changes society) I believe this is the only realistic option left(but we'd have to opt out of the E.U.!!!!!!!!!!! I've just realised the flaw in my plan) I'll say it anyway,I like to see my words in print. FEAR. Fear works. There will be some adults out there(bollo and rimmer!) who may well be traumatized by the words corporal punishment. It won't eradicate the problem but it's a bit of a coincidence that since that has been abolished and adults have had the FEAR of prosecution over the slightest chastisement,this great society of ours(at least at night)is now run by children/young adults. We've tried it the yoghurt knitting way,it hasn't worked. If some adults take it too far the law is there(it's always there!)to sort them out. Alas human rights(more like criminals defence) will make sure it never happens. Most adults don't want to fight,kids do,hormones,peer pressure etc. They know the vast majority of adults are either to scared of them or the law. And that's why we're in the mess we're in today.

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Jo, Moreton says...
1:57pm Fri 18 Jan 08

One of the nicest things that came out of the fight for the continuance of the allotment was the support of Clive.He has been tireless in haranguing the council, police and various Allotment bodies to assist in the needs of the allotment and it's gardeners. He has been a great ally to us and no-one has done as much as he has to bring the plots to the attention of those who could help ( despite the red tape that seems to always be at play)The allotmenteers have a very good friend in Clive Ransom and even if the plight of Thornton plots is ignored by those who could help in their offical capacity, we know that Clive is doing his uttmost to assist us. Cheers, hun.

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SPM, Wirral says...
8:26am Sun 20 Jan 08

I have to agree with the comments above that somewhere along the line somebody or group will take matters in thier own hand. It will not be pleaseant as stated and may be considered as lowering yourself to thier levelbut how much more can people take when everything they have put into thier lives is being destroyed by this vermin. No support from Government Nationally and locally for us as citizens as well as the courts are destroying the police efforts to at least stem the tide.

I live close to where this is happening and asure you my mobile phone with a camara will be in use and pictures distributed of these ferrel children wrecking these allotments and the cemeteries that are being vandalised. If anough of us did this would it help? ithink so but the prospect of vigilanties is still a force to consider if all else fails to protect our families and our property.

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Jo, Moreton says...
10:19am Sun 20 Jan 08

SPM,I understand completely where you're coming from, and don't think that taking a more hands on approach to tackling the swines isn't the first place that you initially go to when confronted with the vandalism. But, it's NOT just kids. And there are packs of older teens and even blokes and girls knocking around.

Many of us go to the allotments late in the evening during the summer or first thing in the morning. There have been quite a number of times that I've been on my own for hours. It's scarey to think that while confronting them I may be injured or worse..

Legally, our hands are tied.We cannot take the law into our own hands. We were told as much by the police. They don't want vigilantes . In this litigious society, it's probably not a good idea anyway!

It would be lovely to think that all the people in the surrounding area were as thoughtful as you in their regard for not only the allotments, but the general standard of upkeep of the area and keeping the thugs, roaming gangs and the like from the streets. I don't know if you agree, but I find some of the surrounding places/ shops a little intimidating to walk through because of the packs of kids and youths.

But, when you ask yourself, where are the parents and what do they think their kids are doing, you look behind the kids and see the parents themselves. And that in itself is pretty explainatory.

It's not generalising, just honest. There are pockets of people who don't have regard for their fellow neighbours or the area that they live. Some of this you can tell from the general upkeep of their houses. Is that inflammatory? I suppose, but then again, sole individuals and the public have the right to object to issues in their neighbourhood. It's just that you are targeted if you do. Which is why people don't put their email addresses or where they live or their full names.

We can bleat and moan all we like about the police and the council not helping as they should, but it's society in general that creates the problem and requires the routes we go down to protect persons and property.

Thank you for keeping an eye out. If only there were more like you....

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SPM, Wirral says...
11:56am Sun 20 Jan 08

Jo, going by some of the responses today, which are mainly sound. It makes you wonder who else reasd thi? are these comment viable for the Globe to print each week? i think they are and may, and i mean may, present a consilidated view as printed to other people in the community. I would offer a reward for information on these gangs but i believe the police know about them but are bound by protocol and poor funding to attack this problem straight on. Recent random raids do work but if an area is raided these low lifes know they will not be hit for a while so it needs the community to ring crimestoppes when they see these things happening. Allotments i believe were founded after the war to provide fresh food for families, including families from the areas mentioned who had members of thier families killed in the war. What a mess when these punks get away with what they have done.

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AR1, Wirral says...
11:01am Tue 22 Jan 08

From my recent expericence of dealing with Anti-Social Behavouir, you've got to keep reporting it both to the Police (via logging an incident on by calling Merseyside Police's general number) and by reproting it to the Council's ASB team.
Both groups are helpful and the police especially have to act if they get a rise in reported incidents. A new initiative to tie tenancy in Council or Houseing Association properties seems to be bearing fruit with evictions recently in Wallesy and Beechwood.
Remember people, if we don't report it it can't be acted on (and no I don't work for the Police!)

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Dave Rimmer, Wallasey says...
8:04pm Wed 23 Jan 08

TO TEKI...dont know why you make the assumption I am a nanny, presumably you make that assumption from my stance on happy slapping the homeless as reported in previous articles.
If you are so incensed, as indeed I am, at the wanton vandalism these yobs are causing join me in an offer to the allotment holders to provide a volunteer security service on their site. No joke, I offer one night a week, if the allotment holders think this could be helpful and such a scheme could be organised.

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teki, Birkenhead says...
9:40am Thu 24 Jan 08

Allotments aren't really top of my agenda. I've told you the cure. Tell me mr "look out" rimmer,what do you intend to do if and when your confronted with a number of boneheads? Recite the lords prayer? Reason with them? Sing them a song? No doubt I'll read about it in the morning papers! Good luck.

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Dave Rimmer, Wallasey says...
2:06pm Thu 24 Jan 08

Allotments are not of the top of my agenda either but vandalism by yobs is, as I assume is yours from your obvious commendable abhorance of such activity. I am prepared to put my money where my mouth is and help in any way I can, Obviously you are not. Your suggestions as to what might be done should confrontations arise are facetious but I am sure I can come up with some ideas that aren`t

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teki, Birkenhead says...
3:24pm Thu 24 Jan 08

I'm all ears. Don't get me wrong,I really do wish you all the best on your pointless,time wasting mission,I'm just curious to what action you think you'll be legally allowed to take(unless your going to take the law into your own hands,which I believe every citizen has the right). If you are,nice one,I hope you get away with it. If however you are a law abiding chappy,which I presume you are,then sadly it's probably futile,I do hope I'm wrong. And if you do set up a gang or organisation at some later date,which does a bit more than protect allotments(which are a good idea,but not my business) then count me in,if you'll have me,I have good teeth and a strong right arm(that's the internet for you!)

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Dave Rimmer, wallasey says...
4:28pm Thu 24 Jan 08

Nice reply that Teki. As, in a recent article reported here by the Globe, Hesford is supporting and trying to firm up the law on what is reasonable force. Presumably we would both defend our families and property with the utmost vigour. As these allotment holders are getting no help from the authorities I beleive that private observation of the site would deter the reported vandalism. From that point on I would think that any reasonable force to protect that site from damage by vandals would be within the law.....dont think I have to be any more precise than that. If the allotment holders thought it might help and they asked for help I would offer that help

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Spiffy, Wallasey says...
10:43pm Thu 24 Jan 08

Um two words people....Garry Newlove.

Whatever you do dont think that they wont hurt you if you try to stop them. Oh and dont think that they will wait for you to try and stop them either.

Simply being in the vicinity could get you killed. Think long and hard about it.

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Spiffy, Wallasey says...
10:50pm Thu 24 Jan 08

Actually I just made it all sound so bloody hopeless didnt I. Didnt mean to. There is more than one way to skin a cat though.

Are cameras set up ? If not they should be. Yes I know people hate them, infringement of civil liberties and invasion of privacy etc etc etc. However good quality pictures will provide conclusive and irrefutable evidence for prosecution.

If caught red-handed it should be off to Boot Camp for the lot of them. No farting around with community service and fines, they dont work. No excuses that it was the alcohol or whatever drug they fancied getting off their heads on that night. Zero tolerance.

Drill the little b*st*rds into submission I say.

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Spiffy, Wallasey says...
10:52pm Thu 24 Jan 08

We could send the most violent and persistent offenders to Siberia:

http://www.news24.co
m/News24/World/News/
0,,2-10-1462_2253719
,00.html

:))

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Spiffy, Wallasey says...
11:43pm Thu 24 Jan 08

Arrrgh Sorry the link didnt copy in right and wont work. You cant even edit your own posts here ..so here it is again:

http://www.news24.co
m/News24/World/News/
0,,2-10-1462_2253719
,00.html

If it doesnt work this time just google 'siberian boot camp germany' it makes very interesting reading.

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Dave Rimmer, Wallasey says...
3:20am Fri 25 Jan 08

I made the assumption (I know we shouldnt assume) the the vandalism is undertaken when there in no one on the site. On that basis I felt that if the vandals knew there was somebody on site they may not have the
bottle to carry out their dirty little deeds. Most of the little scrotums are inherrently cowards so it may work....but to do nothing when you spend hours on you hobby or interest is heartbreaking and not an option. Spiffy I know you mention the tragic case of Garry Newlove but do we allow the thugs to get away with their criminal activity

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Spiffy, Wallasey says...
10:04am Fri 25 Jan 08

Dave I empathise with the desperate need to DO SOMETHING. I honestly dont know what to suggest right now though. The law effectively lets them do this so you cant legally or effectively stop them, its that simple.

You will be punished far greater for laying a hand on anyone under 15 than they are for severely beating up each other.

See here for example in todays news: http://www.mirror.co

.uk/news/topstories/

2008/01/25/laughing-

yob-kids-walk-free-8

9520-20297221/

I do not remember violence and damage on todays scale when I was growing up in this area in the 70's and 80's. It has escalated out of control in the last 5 years or so. With nothing whatsoever to deter them it will only get worse I guarantee it.

How long do you think it will be before family of such children beat up like this take the law into their own hands and beat the living sh*t out of the scum that did it ? What sentence will they get ? Think about it.

We arent allowed to be vigilante. We arent allowed to pre-emt and protect in any effective way.

Face it, we cant do anything to stop them - legally. The only way is illegal.

It is the law that needs radical reform and FAST.

It is no consolation that those out of control now will probably end up in prison or dead from an overdose before they are 30. What a waste of a generation - and that has far greater implications for the future.

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Spiffy, Wallasey says...
10:14am Fri 25 Jan 08

Link wont work but google is your friend :)


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Comments are closed on this article.

GLOOM: Allotment secretary Clive Ransom surveys the results of the latest attack of vandalism - he is among those threatening to quit and has written to Wirral Council on many occasions for security fences to be installed

GLOOM: Allotment secretary Clive Ransom surveys the results of the latest attack of vandalism - he is among those threatening to quit and has written to Wirral Council on many occasions for security fences to be installed



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