EXCLUSIVE: Wirral mum's anguish as police refused to remove handcuffs from her hospitalised autistic daughter

Wirral Globe: Toni shows bruise marks caused by being handcuffed Toni shows bruise marks caused by being handcuffed

A WIRRAL mum is calling for better police training after officers refused to remove handcuffs from her autistic daughter as she lay in a hospital bed.

Leigh Williams has been left angered and dismayed after her 20-year-old daughter Toni struggled in pain as she was cuffed with her hands behind her back and taken to hospital.

Ms Williams has now issued a formal complaint against Merseyside Police.

Officers had been called to their Birkenhead home on April 4 by a family member after Toni – who has the mental age of a five-year-old – bit and hit her mum after getting over-excited.

Ms Williams told the Globe she had refused to call the police to deal with her own daughter and left the house before they arrived, leaving relatives with her daughter to wait for officers.

She explained: “I didn’t want to call them, but the social worker and community nurse said we had to.

“There were four officers, one stood in the door and three went into the living room where Toni was – I don’t know what happened in there as they wouldn’t let me or my family in.

“Toni was screaming, and when I saw her later, she had a cut on her face and bruises on her arms and wrists where the handcuffs had been.”

After arriving at hospital to see her daughter – who also suffers with epilepsy and has suffered from seizures since she was six months old - Ms Williams found she was in a state of anxiety and deeply upset, made worse by the handcuffs.

Wirral Globe:

Toni Williams, who has autism, was left with marks on her wrists from where the handcuffs had been.

She explained: “She kept apologising and asking me to take the handcuffs off – I asked the officers but they kept telling me 'No.'

“They need to be aware of how to deal with a situation involving a vulnerable adult – they shouldn’t have put the handcuffs on in the first place.

"They said Toni had bitten one of the officers, but when we were at the hospital, they still wouldn’t remove the cuffs

“It was as if they thought she was still a danger to them - but she was in the hospital.

“I explained she has autism and the mental capacity of a five-year-old, but they wouldn’t listen.

“The cuffs were cutting into her wrists and she was covered in bruises.”

Ms Williams told the Globe she had asked officers to move the handcuffs to the front of Toni’s body, which would have allowed her to cuddle her toy dog – which she takes everywhere and allows her to feel safe.

The handcuffs were eventually removed after requests from medical staff.

Wirral Globe:
Photographs taken by Toni's mum, Leigh Williams, show how tight the handcuffs were.

“When I phoned to complain they asked if I wanted compensation – it’s not about 'compo', it’s about awareness and making sure this doesn’t happen to Toni or anyone else again.

“I’ve promised her it won’t happen again and I have to keep that promise. I have to protect my little girl.”

Ms Williams, who moved back to her hometown two years ago to be near the support of her family and friends, said what little respect for the police has now gone.

She added: “This is an injustice – you are meant to turn to the police for support.”

More than 700 people have joined a Facebook group set up by Ms Williams calling for more awareness of autism.

Wirral Globe:
Bruising on Toni's arm.

Ms Williams has also gathered the support of Birkenhead MP Frank Field, who has written to the police on her behalf demanding that reports be released.

The distressed mum added: “Officers need to be trained properly to deal with vulnerable adults and need to assess the situation properly.

“I still don’t know what went on in the living room that day – I just want to know what happened.”

A spokesman for Merseyside Police confirmed a complaint had been made in relation to the arrest.

He said: “The force takes all complaints seriously and investigates them thoroughly and to the highest standard.

“As this complaint is currently under investigation, it would be inappropriate to comment further at this stage.”

Comments (60)

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10:50pm Thu 17 Apr 14

mannionkevin80@yahoo.co.uk says...

how very sad to hear this, autism is difficult to deal with for any family, I hope that this young girl and her mum get the answers they deserve
how very sad to hear this, autism is difficult to deal with for any family, I hope that this young girl and her mum get the answers they deserve mannionkevin80@yahoo.co.uk
  • Score: 6

11:37pm Thu 17 Apr 14

Hayleywillio says...

My lil cuzin everything will be ok princess this will never happen agen xx
My lil cuzin everything will be ok princess this will never happen agen xx Hayleywillio
  • Score: -23

9:07am Fri 18 Apr 14

itme says...

The mental age may be 5 , but the police were dealing with a 20 year old ADULT , who had already injured one person . Their duty is to ensure that nobody else is harmed . I suspect a compensation claim will be made soon.
The mental age may be 5 , but the police were dealing with a 20 year old ADULT , who had already injured one person . Their duty is to ensure that nobody else is harmed . I suspect a compensation claim will be made soon. itme
  • Score: 18

10:31am Fri 18 Apr 14

Nevkim says...

Damned if they do and damned if they don't. No doubt the police haters would have been frothing at the mouth had this grown adult, with the strength of a grown adult gone on to injure someone if the police not cuffed her.

Their priority is to protect the public, and having attacked a police officer also, they were fully justified in restraining her and preventing her attacking them and anyone else.

'Understanding autism' by not cuffing her is going to prevent anyone getting injured is it. It may be news to the mother, but police deal with vulnerable adults every day. It makes up a significant portion of the jobs they have to deal with, and they'll restrain where it's necessary to protect the public irrespective of mental age.
Damned if they do and damned if they don't. No doubt the police haters would have been frothing at the mouth had this grown adult, with the strength of a grown adult gone on to injure someone if the police not cuffed her. Their priority is to protect the public, and having attacked a police officer also, they were fully justified in restraining her and preventing her attacking them and anyone else. 'Understanding autism' by not cuffing her is going to prevent anyone getting injured is it. It may be news to the mother, but police deal with vulnerable adults every day. It makes up a significant portion of the jobs they have to deal with, and they'll restrain where it's necessary to protect the public irrespective of mental age. Nevkim
  • Score: 20

11:30am Fri 18 Apr 14

JayDeee says...

I'm pretty disgusted with this article. At the end of the day, the police in this situation were dealing with a 20 year old adult regardless of mental age and had to deal with an adult that had already assaulted someone. The fact that 2 professional individuals that were witness to this incident felt it necessary to involve the police should speak for itself given that they must deal with vulnerable adults daily also and in this situation it couldn't be handled by themselves. The fact that the mother here didn't want to deal with the situation and left her "mentally aged 5 year old" is absoloutely appauling.

The police have a duty to protect and that protection is for other individuals and also the woman in this case. She had injured others and could have injured herself if not restrained. You do not know the steps taken by the police and once she attacked a police officer there would have been no question as to putting her in cuffs. This is simply following protocols and procedures put in place. Another point is that the police certainly won't remove the cuffs until the medical staff say that they are happy and feel safe enough that this is to happen. Again, the police are protecting. If the police hadn't cuffed the individual and she had proceeded to injure further people then would this be ok?

Police forces deal with vulnerable children and adults on a daily basis and can take a judgement call on what force is necessary and also ensuring they follow protocol. One last point is that cuffs are not designed to be friendly. They are there to restrain people and any injuries from them are down to the individual, they also will be gone the next day.

The fact that this has been written in a way to make you feel sorry for the woman and dislike the police for their actions goes against our society and wellbeing.
I'm pretty disgusted with this article. At the end of the day, the police in this situation were dealing with a 20 year old adult regardless of mental age and had to deal with an adult that had already assaulted someone. The fact that 2 professional individuals that were witness to this incident felt it necessary to involve the police should speak for itself given that they must deal with vulnerable adults daily also and in this situation it couldn't be handled by themselves. The fact that the mother here didn't want to deal with the situation and left her "mentally aged 5 year old" is absoloutely appauling. The police have a duty to protect and that protection is for other individuals and also the woman in this case. She had injured others and could have injured herself if not restrained. You do not know the steps taken by the police and once she attacked a police officer there would have been no question as to putting her in cuffs. This is simply following protocols and procedures put in place. Another point is that the police certainly won't remove the cuffs until the medical staff say that they are happy and feel safe enough that this is to happen. Again, the police are protecting. If the police hadn't cuffed the individual and she had proceeded to injure further people then would this be ok? Police forces deal with vulnerable children and adults on a daily basis and can take a judgement call on what force is necessary and also ensuring they follow protocol. One last point is that cuffs are not designed to be friendly. They are there to restrain people and any injuries from them are down to the individual, they also will be gone the next day. The fact that this has been written in a way to make you feel sorry for the woman and dislike the police for their actions goes against our society and wellbeing. JayDeee
  • Score: 40

12:19pm Fri 18 Apr 14

water1lily says...

According to the Daily Mail the mother alerted a social worker and community nurse who insisted the police were called.
These are the same socal workers who placed my son with a co-tenant with a history of violence who attacked him and his visitors and care staff on many occaisions for over 5 years while DASS refused to take any safeguarding action and told us that police could not be called in because of the co-tenants autism obviously from the way this case was dealt with they were lying to us.
According to the Daily Mail the mother alerted a social worker and community nurse who insisted the police were called. These are the same socal workers who placed my son with a co-tenant with a history of violence who attacked him and his visitors and care staff on many occaisions for over 5 years while DASS refused to take any safeguarding action and told us that police could not be called in because of the co-tenants autism obviously from the way this case was dealt with they were lying to us. water1lily
  • Score: -17

12:47pm Fri 18 Apr 14

Llamedos 1 says...

Wirral Autistic Society, according to the police you now need to include in your next budget the provision for 100 pairs of handcuffs and 100 straight jackets and half a dozen tazars
I would love to know if the above supporters of the gestapos actions had there own children with autism would they take the same point of view....of course they wouldnt
Wirral Autistic Society, according to the police you now need to include in your next budget the provision for 100 pairs of handcuffs and 100 straight jackets and half a dozen tazars I would love to know if the above supporters of the gestapos actions had there own children with autism would they take the same point of view....of course they wouldnt Llamedos 1
  • Score: -20

2:40pm Fri 18 Apr 14

Jayyboyy says...

Nevkim wrote:
Damned if they do and damned if they don't. No doubt the police haters would have been frothing at the mouth had this grown adult, with the strength of a grown adult gone on to injure someone if the police not cuffed her.

Their priority is to protect the public, and having attacked a police officer also, they were fully justified in restraining her and preventing her attacking them and anyone else.

'Understanding autism' by not cuffing her is going to prevent anyone getting injured is it. It may be news to the mother, but police deal with vulnerable adults every day. It makes up a significant portion of the jobs they have to deal with, and they'll restrain where it's necessary to protect the public irrespective of mental age.
I suggest you read 'The Curious Incident of the Dog in the Night Time'. First chapter should show you why police action such as this is not appropriate.
[quote][p][bold]Nevkim[/bold] wrote: Damned if they do and damned if they don't. No doubt the police haters would have been frothing at the mouth had this grown adult, with the strength of a grown adult gone on to injure someone if the police not cuffed her. Their priority is to protect the public, and having attacked a police officer also, they were fully justified in restraining her and preventing her attacking them and anyone else. 'Understanding autism' by not cuffing her is going to prevent anyone getting injured is it. It may be news to the mother, but police deal with vulnerable adults every day. It makes up a significant portion of the jobs they have to deal with, and they'll restrain where it's necessary to protect the public irrespective of mental age.[/p][/quote]I suggest you read 'The Curious Incident of the Dog in the Night Time'. First chapter should show you why police action such as this is not appropriate. Jayyboyy
  • Score: -13

3:38pm Fri 18 Apr 14

Hayleywillio says...

It's not about compo but that's the first thing u thought off init And another thing what if it was ur family think of it that way and my auntie is not a bad mother for walking away ok so think what u like ok....if u have got nout nice to say dnt say it!!!!!!! Fuming!!!!!!
It's not about compo but that's the first thing u thought off init And another thing what if it was ur family think of it that way and my auntie is not a bad mother for walking away ok so think what u like ok....if u have got nout nice to say dnt say it!!!!!!! Fuming!!!!!! Hayleywillio
  • Score: -22

4:22pm Fri 18 Apr 14

Mandylivo says...

They are ignorant hayl.. Ignorant towards this condition and thinking police have integrity ha what a joke , they wouldn't be making comments like this if they knew half of it ,so ignore them and don't give them a second thought the people that matter are the ones close to yous and who know who's the ones with integrity xx
They are ignorant hayl.. Ignorant towards this condition and thinking police have integrity ha what a joke , they wouldn't be making comments like this if they knew half of it ,so ignore them and don't give them a second thought the people that matter are the ones close to yous and who know who's the ones with integrity xx Mandylivo
  • Score: -22

5:57pm Fri 18 Apr 14

Hayleywillio says...

Thanks Mandy people ain't got a clue till it happens to there own do they Hun x
Thanks Mandy people ain't got a clue till it happens to there own do they Hun x Hayleywillio
  • Score: -23

6:20pm Fri 18 Apr 14

Nevkim says...

Jayyboyy wrote:
Nevkim wrote:
Damned if they do and damned if they don't. No doubt the police haters would have been frothing at the mouth had this grown adult, with the strength of a grown adult gone on to injure someone if the police not cuffed her.

Their priority is to protect the public, and having attacked a police officer also, they were fully justified in restraining her and preventing her attacking them and anyone else.

'Understanding autism' by not cuffing her is going to prevent anyone getting injured is it. It may be news to the mother, but police deal with vulnerable adults every day. It makes up a significant portion of the jobs they have to deal with, and they'll restrain where it's necessary to protect the public irrespective of mental age.
I suggest you read 'The Curious Incident of the Dog in the Night Time'. First chapter should show you why police action such as this is not appropriate.
Suggest you should take the time to understand the job the police have to do, and the consequences of their failure to take action when someone poses a threat to themselves and others....... before you decide that police action such as this is inappropriate.
[quote][p][bold]Jayyboyy[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]Nevkim[/bold] wrote: Damned if they do and damned if they don't. No doubt the police haters would have been frothing at the mouth had this grown adult, with the strength of a grown adult gone on to injure someone if the police not cuffed her. Their priority is to protect the public, and having attacked a police officer also, they were fully justified in restraining her and preventing her attacking them and anyone else. 'Understanding autism' by not cuffing her is going to prevent anyone getting injured is it. It may be news to the mother, but police deal with vulnerable adults every day. It makes up a significant portion of the jobs they have to deal with, and they'll restrain where it's necessary to protect the public irrespective of mental age.[/p][/quote]I suggest you read 'The Curious Incident of the Dog in the Night Time'. First chapter should show you why police action such as this is not appropriate.[/p][/quote]Suggest you should take the time to understand the job the police have to do, and the consequences of their failure to take action when someone poses a threat to themselves and others....... before you decide that police action such as this is inappropriate. Nevkim
  • Score: 20

6:28pm Fri 18 Apr 14

Nevkim says...

http://www.telegraph
.co.uk/news/uknews/1
521936/Soldier-kille
d-policeman-by-pulli
ng-handbrake.html

This is the kind of thing that can happen when police don't cuff because they make the assumption someone is compliant and doesn't pose a risk.

Police officers also happen to be fathers, mothers, children, brothers, sisters too. Not cuffing is not worth the risk, to them or the public.
http://www.telegraph .co.uk/news/uknews/1 521936/Soldier-kille d-policeman-by-pulli ng-handbrake.html This is the kind of thing that can happen when police don't cuff because they make the assumption someone is compliant and doesn't pose a risk. Police officers also happen to be fathers, mothers, children, brothers, sisters too. Not cuffing is not worth the risk, to them or the public. Nevkim
  • Score: 21

6:42pm Fri 18 Apr 14

JayDeee says...

I think you're all shocking in believing that this family handled the situation correctly. The police could not possibly leave that adult without cuffs given she had already attacked and bit 2 people. One of those being her mum. If she is going to do this to her own mum then why would anybody else be safe???

I can't possibly understand the mentality of all you people thinking it would be ok not to cuff her. So what if there was someone with a mental issue that stabbed someone? Is this still ok because they only have a mental age of 5? No because they still pose a threat regardless of intention and the police need to protect and or preserve life. Having awareness of autism has nothing to do with what they had to do and you also don't know anyone else on here therefore unaware of if we have family that also have this too. In fact we could do and be horrified that someone is trying to paint such a story under this condition.

You really need to understand the situation that police are in and what the have to deal with so let's start a page to spread awareness of police and the tough and dangerous job they have. Who knows if that police officer being bitten may have been bitten by someone with a disease. Either way he now needs to get boosters and have is blood tested for all sorts.
I think you're all shocking in believing that this family handled the situation correctly. The police could not possibly leave that adult without cuffs given she had already attacked and bit 2 people. One of those being her mum. If she is going to do this to her own mum then why would anybody else be safe??? I can't possibly understand the mentality of all you people thinking it would be ok not to cuff her. So what if there was someone with a mental issue that stabbed someone? Is this still ok because they only have a mental age of 5? No because they still pose a threat regardless of intention and the police need to protect and or preserve life. Having awareness of autism has nothing to do with what they had to do and you also don't know anyone else on here therefore unaware of if we have family that also have this too. In fact we could do and be horrified that someone is trying to paint such a story under this condition. You really need to understand the situation that police are in and what the have to deal with so let's start a page to spread awareness of police and the tough and dangerous job they have. Who knows if that police officer being bitten may have been bitten by someone with a disease. Either way he now needs to get boosters and have is blood tested for all sorts. JayDeee
  • Score: 24

7:11pm Fri 18 Apr 14

Nevkim says...

JayDeee wrote:
I think you're all shocking in believing that this family handled the situation correctly. The police could not possibly leave that adult without cuffs given she had already attacked and bit 2 people. One of those being her mum. If she is going to do this to her own mum then why would anybody else be safe???

I can't possibly understand the mentality of all you people thinking it would be ok not to cuff her. So what if there was someone with a mental issue that stabbed someone? Is this still ok because they only have a mental age of 5? No because they still pose a threat regardless of intention and the police need to protect and or preserve life. Having awareness of autism has nothing to do with what they had to do and you also don't know anyone else on here therefore unaware of if we have family that also have this too. In fact we could do and be horrified that someone is trying to paint such a story under this condition.

You really need to understand the situation that police are in and what the have to deal with so let's start a page to spread awareness of police and the tough and dangerous job they have. Who knows if that police officer being bitten may have been bitten by someone with a disease. Either way he now needs to get boosters and have is blood tested for all sorts.
I'm more than happy to be educated by someone on this thread who would like to give an explanation other than 'she's autistic' to explain why it was inappropriate to cuff her.
[quote][p][bold]JayDeee[/bold] wrote: I think you're all shocking in believing that this family handled the situation correctly. The police could not possibly leave that adult without cuffs given she had already attacked and bit 2 people. One of those being her mum. If she is going to do this to her own mum then why would anybody else be safe??? I can't possibly understand the mentality of all you people thinking it would be ok not to cuff her. So what if there was someone with a mental issue that stabbed someone? Is this still ok because they only have a mental age of 5? No because they still pose a threat regardless of intention and the police need to protect and or preserve life. Having awareness of autism has nothing to do with what they had to do and you also don't know anyone else on here therefore unaware of if we have family that also have this too. In fact we could do and be horrified that someone is trying to paint such a story under this condition. You really need to understand the situation that police are in and what the have to deal with so let's start a page to spread awareness of police and the tough and dangerous job they have. Who knows if that police officer being bitten may have been bitten by someone with a disease. Either way he now needs to get boosters and have is blood tested for all sorts.[/p][/quote]I'm more than happy to be educated by someone on this thread who would like to give an explanation other than 'she's autistic' to explain why it was inappropriate to cuff her. Nevkim
  • Score: 21

9:20pm Fri 18 Apr 14

Hayleywillio says...

How wud u like ur arms twisted and in handcuffs that where cutting into u and having a fit and cudnt move for hours while in hospital telling u there is some people that need to go through this.
How wud u like ur arms twisted and in handcuffs that where cutting into u and having a fit and cudnt move for hours while in hospital telling u there is some people that need to go through this. Hayleywillio
  • Score: -25

9:52pm Fri 18 Apr 14

JayDeee says...

Hayleywillio wrote:
How wud u like ur arms twisted and in handcuffs that where cutting into u and having a fit and cudnt move for hours while in hospital telling u there is some people that need to go through this.
Your arms aren't twisted because you can physically only put them on in a certain way due to the way they are made and hence any damage done is due to the individual wearing them. The fact she still had them on for hours in the hospital is due to the fact the medical staff were not happy with them being removed because according to this wonderful article it clearly states that once the medical staff said to remove them the police did so. As mentioned before, the police will not remove cuffs until the medical staff are happy for such a thing to happen.

You are clearly far from impartial due to being related.
[quote][p][bold]Hayleywillio[/bold] wrote: How wud u like ur arms twisted and in handcuffs that where cutting into u and having a fit and cudnt move for hours while in hospital telling u there is some people that need to go through this.[/p][/quote]Your arms aren't twisted because you can physically only put them on in a certain way due to the way they are made and hence any damage done is due to the individual wearing them. The fact she still had them on for hours in the hospital is due to the fact the medical staff were not happy with them being removed because according to this wonderful article it clearly states that once the medical staff said to remove them the police did so. As mentioned before, the police will not remove cuffs until the medical staff are happy for such a thing to happen. You are clearly far from impartial due to being related. JayDeee
  • Score: 25

10:09pm Fri 18 Apr 14

lleyton01 says...

I carnt believe half the **** iv been reading here, yes this young lady had been violent to her mother and she was also in a very distressed state but the whole situation could have and should have been dealt with so differently. Proper trained police should have been contacted to deal with this and yea there are supposed to be police to be able to deal with all kinds of situations. Instead of trying to calm this vulnerable young lady they go in mob handed and restrain her had they gone in calm and tryed to talk to her reassure her they would have seen the real person inside. Yet again another vulnerable young person failed. People are also so very quick to judge others but what would any of you done in this situation ? Having lived with and dealt with a autistic person for the last 20 years these young vulnerable are so very misunderstood and are branded by many and yes I speak from experience. All fingers get pointed at mum it's her fault she should have done this she shouldn't have done that well what about the social services and the community nurse again people who are supposed to be trained to deal with these kind of people yet they passed the buck and suggested the police be called maybe if it wasn't nearly home time on a Friday they would have dealt with it more differently. So let's not point fingers we can all do this and go around in circles it the poor young lady who's been dealt the strong arm of the law all because know one had the time or couldn't be bothered to deal with this properly
I carnt believe half the **** iv been reading here, yes this young lady had been violent to her mother and she was also in a very distressed state but the whole situation could have and should have been dealt with so differently. Proper trained police should have been contacted to deal with this and yea there are supposed to be police to be able to deal with all kinds of situations. Instead of trying to calm this vulnerable young lady they go in mob handed and restrain her had they gone in calm and tryed to talk to her reassure her they would have seen the real person inside. Yet again another vulnerable young person failed. People are also so very quick to judge others but what would any of you done in this situation ? Having lived with and dealt with a autistic person for the last 20 years these young vulnerable are so very misunderstood and are branded by many and yes I speak from experience. All fingers get pointed at mum it's her fault she should have done this she shouldn't have done that well what about the social services and the community nurse again people who are supposed to be trained to deal with these kind of people yet they passed the buck and suggested the police be called maybe if it wasn't nearly home time on a Friday they would have dealt with it more differently. So let's not point fingers we can all do this and go around in circles it the poor young lady who's been dealt the strong arm of the law all because know one had the time or couldn't be bothered to deal with this properly lleyton01
  • Score: -11

11:00pm Fri 18 Apr 14

JayDeee says...

Why don't you go and read the comments left on the mail website. A number of parents with autistic children have actually agreed that the correct thing was done by using cuffs.
Why don't you go and read the comments left on the mail website. A number of parents with autistic children have actually agreed that the correct thing was done by using cuffs. JayDeee
  • Score: 19

6:58am Sat 19 Apr 14

Hayleywillio says...

Listen u jaydeee medical staff asked the police to remove them serval time so did my auntie it's all on CCTV in the hospital u know nothing so why dnt u stop judging people and get on with ur own life cuz people r starting to get on my nerves just to let u know it wasn't about puting the cuffs on we understand y they did it was taking them off I was der u was not so STOP JUDGING!!!!!!!!!! And I cud not give one what people r putting on the mail there just selifish and ain't got a nice bone in there body.....just wait till it happens to one of ur family or there family u will soon change this attitude!!!!
Listen u jaydeee medical staff asked the police to remove them serval time so did my auntie it's all on CCTV in the hospital u know nothing so why dnt u stop judging people and get on with ur own life cuz people r starting to get on my nerves just to let u know it wasn't about puting the cuffs on we understand y they did it was taking them off I was der u was not so STOP JUDGING!!!!!!!!!! And I cud not give one what people r putting on the mail there just selifish and ain't got a nice bone in there body.....just wait till it happens to one of ur family or there family u will soon change this attitude!!!! Hayleywillio
  • Score: -13

7:00am Sat 19 Apr 14

Hayleywillio says...

Y u reading the article then y dnt u just stay away from it then!!!!!!
Y u reading the article then y dnt u just stay away from it then!!!!!! Hayleywillio
  • Score: -20

7:26am Sat 19 Apr 14

itme says...

Hopefully the mother will state publicly that she will not be seeking compensation . Otherwise people may get the wrong idea.
Hopefully the mother will state publicly that she will not be seeking compensation . Otherwise people may get the wrong idea. itme
  • Score: 15

10:35am Sat 19 Apr 14

sonoferic says...

" just to let u know it wasn't about puting the cuffs on we understand y they did it "

That's not what the article says. The Mum is quoted as saying "they shouldn’t have put the handcuffs on in the first place"

She may have had the mental age of a 5 year old but, as has been said she still has the strength of a 20 year old. As well as safeguarding her, the Police had a duty to safeguard those around her including the Hospital staff.
" just to let u know it wasn't about puting the cuffs on we understand y they did it " That's not what the article says. The Mum is quoted as saying "they shouldn’t have put the handcuffs on in the first place" She may have had the mental age of a 5 year old but, as has been said she still has the strength of a 20 year old. As well as safeguarding her, the Police had a duty to safeguard those around her including the Hospital staff. sonoferic
  • Score: 20

11:20am Sat 19 Apr 14

Hayleywillio says...

Listen u jaydeee medical staff asked the police to remove them serval time so did my auntie it's all on CCTV in the hospital u know nothing so why dnt u stop judging people and get on with ur own life cuz people r starting to get on my nerves just to let u know it wasn't about puting the cuffs on we understand y they did it was taking them off I was der u was not so STOP JUDGING!!!!!!!!!! And I cud not give one what people r putting on the mail there just selifish and ain't got a nice bone in there body.....just wait till it happens to one of ur family or there family u will soon change this attitude!!!!
Listen u jaydeee medical staff asked the police to remove them serval time so did my auntie it's all on CCTV in the hospital u know nothing so why dnt u stop judging people and get on with ur own life cuz people r starting to get on my nerves just to let u know it wasn't about puting the cuffs on we understand y they did it was taking them off I was der u was not so STOP JUDGING!!!!!!!!!! And I cud not give one what people r putting on the mail there just selifish and ain't got a nice bone in there body.....just wait till it happens to one of ur family or there family u will soon change this attitude!!!! Hayleywillio
  • Score: -18

11:31am Sat 19 Apr 14

Hayleywillio says...

I know they shudnt ov but they shud of took them off when she was in hospital and not leave them on for hours do u know what think what u want my family have bin through so much dnt need people like this bringing us dwn we are betta then that!!
I know they shudnt ov but they shud of took them off when she was in hospital and not leave them on for hours do u know what think what u want my family have bin through so much dnt need people like this bringing us dwn we are betta then that!! Hayleywillio
  • Score: -21

12:34pm Sat 19 Apr 14

itme says...

Hayleywillio wrote:
I know they shudnt ov but they shud of took them off when she was in hospital and not leave them on for hours do u know what think what u want my family have bin through so much dnt need people like this bringing us dwn we are betta then that!!
Then why go to the papers with the story ?
[quote][p][bold]Hayleywillio[/bold] wrote: I know they shudnt ov but they shud of took them off when she was in hospital and not leave them on for hours do u know what think what u want my family have bin through so much dnt need people like this bringing us dwn we are betta then that!![/p][/quote]Then why go to the papers with the story ? itme
  • Score: 13

12:59pm Sat 19 Apr 14

Llamedos 1 says...

Look at the bruises on this young ladies arms.....not caused by handcuffs but by thugs supposedly to protect the public....I hope mum does sue the backsides off Merseyside Police. I re-itterate, Wirral Autistic Society deal with this sort of situation daily without the use of handcuffs. I hope the officers responsible are ashamed of themselves but sadly I suspect they will be proud of their brave actions.
Look at the bruises on this young ladies arms.....not caused by handcuffs but by thugs supposedly to protect the public....I hope mum does sue the backsides off Merseyside Police. I re-itterate, Wirral Autistic Society deal with this sort of situation daily without the use of handcuffs. I hope the officers responsible are ashamed of themselves but sadly I suspect they will be proud of their brave actions. Llamedos 1
  • Score: -13

8:24pm Sat 19 Apr 14

itme says...

Llamedos 1 wrote:
Look at the bruises on this young ladies arms.....not caused by handcuffs but by thugs supposedly to protect the public....I hope mum does sue the backsides off Merseyside Police. I re-itterate, Wirral Autistic Society deal with this sort of situation daily without the use of handcuffs. I hope the officers responsible are ashamed of themselves but sadly I suspect they will be proud of their brave actions.
Perhaps the next time a violent act is committed by somebody with autism Wirral autistic society should be called, rather than the police........Get real !!!
[quote][p][bold]Llamedos 1[/bold] wrote: Look at the bruises on this young ladies arms.....not caused by handcuffs but by thugs supposedly to protect the public....I hope mum does sue the backsides off Merseyside Police. I re-itterate, Wirral Autistic Society deal with this sort of situation daily without the use of handcuffs. I hope the officers responsible are ashamed of themselves but sadly I suspect they will be proud of their brave actions.[/p][/quote]Perhaps the next time a violent act is committed by somebody with autism Wirral autistic society should be called, rather than the police........Get real !!! itme
  • Score: 15

11:03am Sun 20 Apr 14

uncatom says...

Hayleywillio wrote:
How wud u like ur arms twisted and in handcuffs that where cutting into u and having a fit and cudnt move for hours while in hospital telling u there is some people that need to go through this.
How would you like to be attacked and bitten? its not all about her condition, its about the damage or potential damage she could inflict on someone else, by controlling one aggressive person it saves harm coming to others, which surely must have priority all other considerations.
[quote][p][bold]Hayleywillio[/bold] wrote: How wud u like ur arms twisted and in handcuffs that where cutting into u and having a fit and cudnt move for hours while in hospital telling u there is some people that need to go through this.[/p][/quote]How would you like to be attacked and bitten? its not all about her condition, its about the damage or potential damage she could inflict on someone else, by controlling one aggressive person it saves harm coming to others, which surely must have priority all other considerations. uncatom
  • Score: 14

2:50pm Sun 20 Apr 14

sihii123 says...

itme wrote:
The mental age may be 5 , but the police were dealing with a 20 year old ADULT , who had already injured one person . Their duty is to ensure that nobody else is harmed . I suspect a compensation claim will be made soon.
ERM.... yes but she is A VULNERABLE ADULT. They dealt with my 14 year old child with the same brute force, severely traumatizing her, The 20 year old deserves compensation especially when you take into consideration what kind of outrageous comp claims the police are always putting in for...£8,000 for trapping a thumb in the door, £26,000 for falling off his pushbike, hundreds of these ludicrous claims.
[quote][p][bold]itme[/bold] wrote: The mental age may be 5 , but the police were dealing with a 20 year old ADULT , who had already injured one person . Their duty is to ensure that nobody else is harmed . I suspect a compensation claim will be made soon.[/p][/quote]ERM.... yes but she is A VULNERABLE ADULT. They dealt with my 14 year old child with the same brute force, severely traumatizing her, The 20 year old deserves compensation especially when you take into consideration what kind of outrageous comp claims the police are always putting in for...£8,000 for trapping a thumb in the door, £26,000 for falling off his pushbike, hundreds of these ludicrous claims. sihii123
  • Score: -14

2:53pm Sun 20 Apr 14

sihii123 says...

itme wrote:
The mental age may be 5 , but the police were dealing with a 20 year old ADULT , who had already injured one person . Their duty is to ensure that nobody else is harmed . I suspect a compensation claim will be made soon.
SHE IS A VULNERABLE ADULT! they also have a duty of care towards her or is that unimportant?
[quote][p][bold]itme[/bold] wrote: The mental age may be 5 , but the police were dealing with a 20 year old ADULT , who had already injured one person . Their duty is to ensure that nobody else is harmed . I suspect a compensation claim will be made soon.[/p][/quote]SHE IS A VULNERABLE ADULT! they also have a duty of care towards her or is that unimportant? sihii123
  • Score: -14

3:01pm Sun 20 Apr 14

sihii123 says...

Nevkim wrote:
Damned if they do and damned if they don't. No doubt the police haters would have been frothing at the mouth had this grown adult, with the strength of a grown adult gone on to injure someone if the police not cuffed her.

Their priority is to protect the public, and having attacked a police officer also, they were fully justified in restraining her and preventing her attacking them and anyone else.

'Understanding autism' by not cuffing her is going to prevent anyone getting injured is it. It may be news to the mother, but police deal with vulnerable adults every day. It makes up a significant portion of the jobs they have to deal with, and they'll restrain where it's necessary to protect the public irrespective of mental age.
This issue isn't /shouldn't be about the handcuffing of the VULNERABLE PERSON. It is about using restraint that is only proportionate and necessary, this is clearly not the case here! Nothing to do with police haters. Merseyside police are renowned for their brutality and excessive force.
[quote][p][bold]Nevkim[/bold] wrote: Damned if they do and damned if they don't. No doubt the police haters would have been frothing at the mouth had this grown adult, with the strength of a grown adult gone on to injure someone if the police not cuffed her. Their priority is to protect the public, and having attacked a police officer also, they were fully justified in restraining her and preventing her attacking them and anyone else. 'Understanding autism' by not cuffing her is going to prevent anyone getting injured is it. It may be news to the mother, but police deal with vulnerable adults every day. It makes up a significant portion of the jobs they have to deal with, and they'll restrain where it's necessary to protect the public irrespective of mental age.[/p][/quote]This issue isn't /shouldn't be about the handcuffing of the VULNERABLE PERSON. It is about using restraint that is only proportionate and necessary, this is clearly not the case here! Nothing to do with police haters. Merseyside police are renowned for their brutality and excessive force. sihii123
  • Score: -10

3:11pm Sun 20 Apr 14

sihii123 says...

JayDeee wrote:
I'm pretty disgusted with this article. At the end of the day, the police in this situation were dealing with a 20 year old adult regardless of mental age and had to deal with an adult that had already assaulted someone. The fact that 2 professional individuals that were witness to this incident felt it necessary to involve the police should speak for itself given that they must deal with vulnerable adults daily also and in this situation it couldn't be handled by themselves. The fact that the mother here didn't want to deal with the situation and left her "mentally aged 5 year old" is absoloutely appauling.

The police have a duty to protect and that protection is for other individuals and also the woman in this case. She had injured others and could have injured herself if not restrained. You do not know the steps taken by the police and once she attacked a police officer there would have been no question as to putting her in cuffs. This is simply following protocols and procedures put in place. Another point is that the police certainly won't remove the cuffs until the medical staff say that they are happy and feel safe enough that this is to happen. Again, the police are protecting. If the police hadn't cuffed the individual and she had proceeded to injure further people then would this be ok?

Police forces deal with vulnerable children and adults on a daily basis and can take a judgement call on what force is necessary and also ensuring they follow protocol. One last point is that cuffs are not designed to be friendly. They are there to restrain people and any injuries from them are down to the individual, they also will be gone the next day.

The fact that this has been written in a way to make you feel sorry for the woman and dislike the police for their actions goes against our society and wellbeing.
Does JayDeee have any understanding of looking after someone like this girl? any understanding of the working of social services? It appears NOT. Have they ever been a victim of police brutality or witnessed this? do they have any knowledge of the police codes of conduct? CLEARLY NOT!
[quote][p][bold]JayDeee[/bold] wrote: I'm pretty disgusted with this article. At the end of the day, the police in this situation were dealing with a 20 year old adult regardless of mental age and had to deal with an adult that had already assaulted someone. The fact that 2 professional individuals that were witness to this incident felt it necessary to involve the police should speak for itself given that they must deal with vulnerable adults daily also and in this situation it couldn't be handled by themselves. The fact that the mother here didn't want to deal with the situation and left her "mentally aged 5 year old" is absoloutely appauling. The police have a duty to protect and that protection is for other individuals and also the woman in this case. She had injured others and could have injured herself if not restrained. You do not know the steps taken by the police and once she attacked a police officer there would have been no question as to putting her in cuffs. This is simply following protocols and procedures put in place. Another point is that the police certainly won't remove the cuffs until the medical staff say that they are happy and feel safe enough that this is to happen. Again, the police are protecting. If the police hadn't cuffed the individual and she had proceeded to injure further people then would this be ok? Police forces deal with vulnerable children and adults on a daily basis and can take a judgement call on what force is necessary and also ensuring they follow protocol. One last point is that cuffs are not designed to be friendly. They are there to restrain people and any injuries from them are down to the individual, they also will be gone the next day. The fact that this has been written in a way to make you feel sorry for the woman and dislike the police for their actions goes against our society and wellbeing.[/p][/quote]Does JayDeee have any understanding of looking after someone like this girl? any understanding of the working of social services? It appears NOT. Have they ever been a victim of police brutality or witnessed this? do they have any knowledge of the police codes of conduct? CLEARLY NOT! sihii123
  • Score: -14

3:32pm Sun 20 Apr 14

sihii123 says...

WANT TO SEE MERSEYSIDE POLICE IN ACTION? VISIT YOUTUBE ....TAP IN MERSEYSIDE POLICE CHILD ABUSERS, PARTS 1,2&3.
Will all those commenting on this wonderful police force still defend them...PROBABLY as police don't do such things do they? WAKE UP N SMELL THE COFFEE, I HAVE MORE DOCUMENTED EVIDENCE OF MERSEYSIDE POLICE CHILD ABUSE, FROM THEIR OWN CUSTODY RECORDS.....OR MAYBE IM MAKING THAT UP!
WANT TO SEE MERSEYSIDE POLICE IN ACTION? VISIT YOUTUBE ....TAP IN MERSEYSIDE POLICE CHILD ABUSERS, PARTS 1,2&3. Will all those commenting on this wonderful police force still defend them...PROBABLY as police don't do such things do they? WAKE UP N SMELL THE COFFEE, I HAVE MORE DOCUMENTED EVIDENCE OF MERSEYSIDE POLICE CHILD ABUSE, FROM THEIR OWN CUSTODY RECORDS.....OR MAYBE IM MAKING THAT UP! sihii123
  • Score: -16

6:45pm Sun 20 Apr 14

uncatom says...

sihii123 wrote:
itme wrote:
The mental age may be 5 , but the police were dealing with a 20 year old ADULT , who had already injured one person . Their duty is to ensure that nobody else is harmed . I suspect a compensation claim will be made soon.
SHE IS A VULNERABLE ADULT! they also have a duty of care towards her or is that unimportant?
They also have a duty of care to the general public, to see no one is harmed, or does that only apply one way?
[quote][p][bold]sihii123[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]itme[/bold] wrote: The mental age may be 5 , but the police were dealing with a 20 year old ADULT , who had already injured one person . Their duty is to ensure that nobody else is harmed . I suspect a compensation claim will be made soon.[/p][/quote]SHE IS A VULNERABLE ADULT! they also have a duty of care towards her or is that unimportant?[/p][/quote]They also have a duty of care to the general public, to see no one is harmed, or does that only apply one way? uncatom
  • Score: 9

7:00pm Sun 20 Apr 14

sihii123 says...

uncatom wrote:
sihii123 wrote:
itme wrote:
The mental age may be 5 , but the police were dealing with a 20 year old ADULT , who had already injured one person . Their duty is to ensure that nobody else is harmed . I suspect a compensation claim will be made soon.
SHE IS A VULNERABLE ADULT! they also have a duty of care towards her or is that unimportant?
They also have a duty of care to the general public, to see no one is harmed, or does that only apply one way?
Police are supposed to be trained ( as i have been, so am aware) of non violent physical crisis intervention! Had they put this practice into action and followed THEIR OWN PROCEDURES AND CODES OF CONDUCT, this vulnerable young woman would not have been subject to such brutal acts, the police duty of care would have been met both to the public and the young woman! before you spout off any more stupid remarks i suggest you update yourself with the police working practices manual!
[quote][p][bold]uncatom[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]sihii123[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]itme[/bold] wrote: The mental age may be 5 , but the police were dealing with a 20 year old ADULT , who had already injured one person . Their duty is to ensure that nobody else is harmed . I suspect a compensation claim will be made soon.[/p][/quote]SHE IS A VULNERABLE ADULT! they also have a duty of care towards her or is that unimportant?[/p][/quote]They also have a duty of care to the general public, to see no one is harmed, or does that only apply one way?[/p][/quote]Police are supposed to be trained ( as i have been, so am aware) of non violent physical crisis intervention! Had they put this practice into action and followed THEIR OWN PROCEDURES AND CODES OF CONDUCT, this vulnerable young woman would not have been subject to such brutal acts, the police duty of care would have been met both to the public and the young woman! before you spout off any more stupid remarks i suggest you update yourself with the police working practices manual! sihii123
  • Score: -10

8:55pm Sun 20 Apr 14

uncatom says...

sihii123 wrote:
uncatom wrote:
sihii123 wrote:
itme wrote:
The mental age may be 5 , but the police were dealing with a 20 year old ADULT , who had already injured one person . Their duty is to ensure that nobody else is harmed . I suspect a compensation claim will be made soon.
SHE IS A VULNERABLE ADULT! they also have a duty of care towards her or is that unimportant?
They also have a duty of care to the general public, to see no one is harmed, or does that only apply one way?
Police are supposed to be trained ( as i have been, so am aware) of non violent physical crisis intervention! Had they put this practice into action and followed THEIR OWN PROCEDURES AND CODES OF CONDUCT, this vulnerable young woman would not have been subject to such brutal acts, the police duty of care would have been met both to the public and the young woman! before you spout off any more stupid remarks i suggest you update yourself with the police working practices manual!
Please explain why my remark is stupid, or do you believe that a duty of care only applies to those with autism ? as to non violent crisis intervention ( the calming of an agitated or potentially violent person) as she had already been violent,( that's why the police were called ) the opportunity for the use of same was lost, was the mother trained to deal with her daughters autism and epilepsy? perhaps if she had stayed she could have used the quoted intervention procedure.
[quote][p][bold]sihii123[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]uncatom[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]sihii123[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]itme[/bold] wrote: The mental age may be 5 , but the police were dealing with a 20 year old ADULT , who had already injured one person . Their duty is to ensure that nobody else is harmed . I suspect a compensation claim will be made soon.[/p][/quote]SHE IS A VULNERABLE ADULT! they also have a duty of care towards her or is that unimportant?[/p][/quote]They also have a duty of care to the general public, to see no one is harmed, or does that only apply one way?[/p][/quote]Police are supposed to be trained ( as i have been, so am aware) of non violent physical crisis intervention! Had they put this practice into action and followed THEIR OWN PROCEDURES AND CODES OF CONDUCT, this vulnerable young woman would not have been subject to such brutal acts, the police duty of care would have been met both to the public and the young woman! before you spout off any more stupid remarks i suggest you update yourself with the police working practices manual![/p][/quote]Please explain why my remark is stupid, or do you believe that a duty of care only applies to those with autism ? as to non violent crisis intervention ( the calming of an agitated or potentially violent person) as she had already been violent,( that's why the police were called ) the opportunity for the use of same was lost, was the mother trained to deal with her daughters autism and epilepsy? perhaps if she had stayed she could have used the quoted intervention procedure. uncatom
  • Score: 13

9:38pm Sun 20 Apr 14

sihii123 says...

uncatom wrote:
sihii123 wrote:
uncatom wrote:
sihii123 wrote:
itme wrote:
The mental age may be 5 , but the police were dealing with a 20 year old ADULT , who had already injured one person . Their duty is to ensure that nobody else is harmed . I suspect a compensation claim will be made soon.
SHE IS A VULNERABLE ADULT! they also have a duty of care towards her or is that unimportant?
They also have a duty of care to the general public, to see no one is harmed, or does that only apply one way?
Police are supposed to be trained ( as i have been, so am aware) of non violent physical crisis intervention! Had they put this practice into action and followed THEIR OWN PROCEDURES AND CODES OF CONDUCT, this vulnerable young woman would not have been subject to such brutal acts, the police duty of care would have been met both to the public and the young woman! before you spout off any more stupid remarks i suggest you update yourself with the police working practices manual!
Please explain why my remark is stupid, or do you believe that a duty of care only applies to those with autism ? as to non violent crisis intervention ( the calming of an agitated or potentially violent person) as she had already been violent,( that's why the police were called ) the opportunity for the use of same was lost, was the mother trained to deal with her daughters autism and epilepsy? perhaps if she had stayed she could have used the quoted intervention procedure.
Your remark is stupid because you are obviously uneducated in such things. Now,go back and read my reply.... take your time.. I SAID THE POLICE DUTY OF CARE WOULD HAVE BEEN MET BOTH, (do you understand what the word both means?) TO THE THE PUBLIC AND (which means as well as) THE YOUNG WOMAN... What part of that don't you understand? Let me now correct you on your knowledge of non violent physical crisis intervention....when the calming is proving ineffective the use of NON VIOLENT PHYSICAL INTERVENTION AND RESTRAINT THEN COMES INTO FORCE, this training is not simply to be used as an opportunity to avoid physical violence as you suggest, it is a means of dealing with a violent person (particularly a violent vulnerable person, whos medical condition is not of their own doing). I do not know if the mother was trained in dealing with these issues as i do not know her or her family. Also the procedure requires two persons to perform the procedure. To blame her mother is an outrageous lack of ignorance. Before you ask...YES, i am qualified and experienced in these matters and probably know more about the police codes of conduct than a lot of police officers themselves. BTW have you watched Merseyside police child abusers on youtube?
[quote][p][bold]uncatom[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]sihii123[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]uncatom[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]sihii123[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]itme[/bold] wrote: The mental age may be 5 , but the police were dealing with a 20 year old ADULT , who had already injured one person . Their duty is to ensure that nobody else is harmed . I suspect a compensation claim will be made soon.[/p][/quote]SHE IS A VULNERABLE ADULT! they also have a duty of care towards her or is that unimportant?[/p][/quote]They also have a duty of care to the general public, to see no one is harmed, or does that only apply one way?[/p][/quote]Police are supposed to be trained ( as i have been, so am aware) of non violent physical crisis intervention! Had they put this practice into action and followed THEIR OWN PROCEDURES AND CODES OF CONDUCT, this vulnerable young woman would not have been subject to such brutal acts, the police duty of care would have been met both to the public and the young woman! before you spout off any more stupid remarks i suggest you update yourself with the police working practices manual![/p][/quote]Please explain why my remark is stupid, or do you believe that a duty of care only applies to those with autism ? as to non violent crisis intervention ( the calming of an agitated or potentially violent person) as she had already been violent,( that's why the police were called ) the opportunity for the use of same was lost, was the mother trained to deal with her daughters autism and epilepsy? perhaps if she had stayed she could have used the quoted intervention procedure.[/p][/quote]Your remark is stupid because you are obviously uneducated in such things. Now,go back and read my reply.... take your time.. I SAID THE POLICE DUTY OF CARE WOULD HAVE BEEN MET BOTH, (do you understand what the word both means?) TO THE THE PUBLIC AND (which means as well as) THE YOUNG WOMAN... What part of that don't you understand? Let me now correct you on your knowledge of non violent physical crisis intervention....when the calming is proving ineffective the use of NON VIOLENT PHYSICAL INTERVENTION AND RESTRAINT THEN COMES INTO FORCE, this training is not simply to be used as an opportunity to avoid physical violence as you suggest, it is a means of dealing with a violent person (particularly a violent vulnerable person, whos medical condition is not of their own doing). I do not know if the mother was trained in dealing with these issues as i do not know her or her family. Also the procedure requires two persons to perform the procedure. To blame her mother is an outrageous lack of ignorance. Before you ask...YES, i am qualified and experienced in these matters and probably know more about the police codes of conduct than a lot of police officers themselves. BTW have you watched Merseyside police child abusers on youtube? sihii123
  • Score: -11

9:52pm Sun 20 Apr 14

JayDeee says...

sihii123 wrote:
JayDeee wrote:
I'm pretty disgusted with this article. At the end of the day, the police in this situation were dealing with a 20 year old adult regardless of mental age and had to deal with an adult that had already assaulted someone. The fact that 2 professional individuals that were witness to this incident felt it necessary to involve the police should speak for itself given that they must deal with vulnerable adults daily also and in this situation it couldn't be handled by themselves. The fact that the mother here didn't want to deal with the situation and left her "mentally aged 5 year old" is absoloutely appauling.

The police have a duty to protect and that protection is for other individuals and also the woman in this case. She had injured others and could have injured herself if not restrained. You do not know the steps taken by the police and once she attacked a police officer there would have been no question as to putting her in cuffs. This is simply following protocols and procedures put in place. Another point is that the police certainly won't remove the cuffs until the medical staff say that they are happy and feel safe enough that this is to happen. Again, the police are protecting. If the police hadn't cuffed the individual and she had proceeded to injure further people then would this be ok?

Police forces deal with vulnerable children and adults on a daily basis and can take a judgement call on what force is necessary and also ensuring they follow protocol. One last point is that cuffs are not designed to be friendly. They are there to restrain people and any injuries from them are down to the individual, they also will be gone the next day.

The fact that this has been written in a way to make you feel sorry for the woman and dislike the police for their actions goes against our society and wellbeing.
Does JayDeee have any understanding of looking after someone like this girl? any understanding of the working of social services? It appears NOT. Have they ever been a victim of police brutality or witnessed this? do they have any knowledge of the police codes of conduct? CLEARLY NOT!
I am medically and academically trained. I could also tell you all of the police codes of conduct in my sleep. I have specific training in safeguarding and could wipe the floor with all of you with regards to my knowledge and awareness.

I will not back down from my view and just because we don't agree with your pathetic little arguments doesn't mean we aren't trained or aware of these issues and how to handle them. The difference is just because she has autism I don't think she should be treated differently in regards to having to be restrained after abusing 2 individuals! That is not what PACE or anything on the mental health act actually states. I'm sorry but it's not about special treatment its about awareness and best practice when coming across and dealing with these situations and they were followed. End of story. Using capital letters just makes you look like a spoilt brat not getting your own way. You'll find your views are in the minority.
[quote][p][bold]sihii123[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]JayDeee[/bold] wrote: I'm pretty disgusted with this article. At the end of the day, the police in this situation were dealing with a 20 year old adult regardless of mental age and had to deal with an adult that had already assaulted someone. The fact that 2 professional individuals that were witness to this incident felt it necessary to involve the police should speak for itself given that they must deal with vulnerable adults daily also and in this situation it couldn't be handled by themselves. The fact that the mother here didn't want to deal with the situation and left her "mentally aged 5 year old" is absoloutely appauling. The police have a duty to protect and that protection is for other individuals and also the woman in this case. She had injured others and could have injured herself if not restrained. You do not know the steps taken by the police and once she attacked a police officer there would have been no question as to putting her in cuffs. This is simply following protocols and procedures put in place. Another point is that the police certainly won't remove the cuffs until the medical staff say that they are happy and feel safe enough that this is to happen. Again, the police are protecting. If the police hadn't cuffed the individual and she had proceeded to injure further people then would this be ok? Police forces deal with vulnerable children and adults on a daily basis and can take a judgement call on what force is necessary and also ensuring they follow protocol. One last point is that cuffs are not designed to be friendly. They are there to restrain people and any injuries from them are down to the individual, they also will be gone the next day. The fact that this has been written in a way to make you feel sorry for the woman and dislike the police for their actions goes against our society and wellbeing.[/p][/quote]Does JayDeee have any understanding of looking after someone like this girl? any understanding of the working of social services? It appears NOT. Have they ever been a victim of police brutality or witnessed this? do they have any knowledge of the police codes of conduct? CLEARLY NOT![/p][/quote]I am medically and academically trained. I could also tell you all of the police codes of conduct in my sleep. I have specific training in safeguarding and could wipe the floor with all of you with regards to my knowledge and awareness. I will not back down from my view and just because we don't agree with your pathetic little arguments doesn't mean we aren't trained or aware of these issues and how to handle them. The difference is just because she has autism I don't think she should be treated differently in regards to having to be restrained after abusing 2 individuals! That is not what PACE or anything on the mental health act actually states. I'm sorry but it's not about special treatment its about awareness and best practice when coming across and dealing with these situations and they were followed. End of story. Using capital letters just makes you look like a spoilt brat not getting your own way. You'll find your views are in the minority. JayDeee
  • Score: 13

10:23pm Sun 20 Apr 14

sihii123 says...

JayDeee wrote:
sihii123 wrote:
JayDeee wrote:
I'm pretty disgusted with this article. At the end of the day, the police in this situation were dealing with a 20 year old adult regardless of mental age and had to deal with an adult that had already assaulted someone. The fact that 2 professional individuals that were witness to this incident felt it necessary to involve the police should speak for itself given that they must deal with vulnerable adults daily also and in this situation it couldn't be handled by themselves. The fact that the mother here didn't want to deal with the situation and left her "mentally aged 5 year old" is absoloutely appauling.

The police have a duty to protect and that protection is for other individuals and also the woman in this case. She had injured others and could have injured herself if not restrained. You do not know the steps taken by the police and once she attacked a police officer there would have been no question as to putting her in cuffs. This is simply following protocols and procedures put in place. Another point is that the police certainly won't remove the cuffs until the medical staff say that they are happy and feel safe enough that this is to happen. Again, the police are protecting. If the police hadn't cuffed the individual and she had proceeded to injure further people then would this be ok?

Police forces deal with vulnerable children and adults on a daily basis and can take a judgement call on what force is necessary and also ensuring they follow protocol. One last point is that cuffs are not designed to be friendly. They are there to restrain people and any injuries from them are down to the individual, they also will be gone the next day.

The fact that this has been written in a way to make you feel sorry for the woman and dislike the police for their actions goes against our society and wellbeing.
Does JayDeee have any understanding of looking after someone like this girl? any understanding of the working of social services? It appears NOT. Have they ever been a victim of police brutality or witnessed this? do they have any knowledge of the police codes of conduct? CLEARLY NOT!
I am medically and academically trained. I could also tell you all of the police codes of conduct in my sleep. I have specific training in safeguarding and could wipe the floor with all of you with regards to my knowledge and awareness.

I will not back down from my view and just because we don't agree with your pathetic little arguments doesn't mean we aren't trained or aware of these issues and how to handle them. The difference is just because she has autism I don't think she should be treated differently in regards to having to be restrained after abusing 2 individuals! That is not what PACE or anything on the mental health act actually states. I'm sorry but it's not about special treatment its about awareness and best practice when coming across and dealing with these situations and they were followed. End of story. Using capital letters just makes you look like a spoilt brat not getting your own way. You'll find your views are in the minority.
THE USE OF CAPITALS IS TO HIGHLIGHT YOUR IGNORANCE! A POLICEMAN / WOMAN ARE YOU? IF YOU ARE TRAINED TO DEAL WITH THESE ISSUES THEN YOU AND MANY OF YOUR COLLEAGUES ARE EITHER INCOMPETENT OR YOU JUST DON'T GIVE A DAM ABOUT YOUR DESPICABLE ACTIONS! I WAS ACTUALLY TOLD BY AN INSPECTOR THAT THE POLICE ARE NOT PROPERLY TRAINED IN SUCH ISSUES AND ONLY RECEIVE VERY BASIC TRAINING! go on then, wipe the floor with us and tell us the procedures regarding the safer handling and detention of persons in police custody relating to mentally vulnerable detainees. I equal your qualifications and also have first hand experience of Merseyside police brutality upon vulnerable people including children. I an very aware of the mental health act and the disability discrimination act, also the offences against the child act to name just a few. i know without looking anything up that procedures were clearly not followed. You are entitled to your opinion which will obviously be bias being a member of the police force. I am entitled to my opinion which i believe is the view of the general public.
[quote][p][bold]JayDeee[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]sihii123[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]JayDeee[/bold] wrote: I'm pretty disgusted with this article. At the end of the day, the police in this situation were dealing with a 20 year old adult regardless of mental age and had to deal with an adult that had already assaulted someone. The fact that 2 professional individuals that were witness to this incident felt it necessary to involve the police should speak for itself given that they must deal with vulnerable adults daily also and in this situation it couldn't be handled by themselves. The fact that the mother here didn't want to deal with the situation and left her "mentally aged 5 year old" is absoloutely appauling. The police have a duty to protect and that protection is for other individuals and also the woman in this case. She had injured others and could have injured herself if not restrained. You do not know the steps taken by the police and once she attacked a police officer there would have been no question as to putting her in cuffs. This is simply following protocols and procedures put in place. Another point is that the police certainly won't remove the cuffs until the medical staff say that they are happy and feel safe enough that this is to happen. Again, the police are protecting. If the police hadn't cuffed the individual and she had proceeded to injure further people then would this be ok? Police forces deal with vulnerable children and adults on a daily basis and can take a judgement call on what force is necessary and also ensuring they follow protocol. One last point is that cuffs are not designed to be friendly. They are there to restrain people and any injuries from them are down to the individual, they also will be gone the next day. The fact that this has been written in a way to make you feel sorry for the woman and dislike the police for their actions goes against our society and wellbeing.[/p][/quote]Does JayDeee have any understanding of looking after someone like this girl? any understanding of the working of social services? It appears NOT. Have they ever been a victim of police brutality or witnessed this? do they have any knowledge of the police codes of conduct? CLEARLY NOT![/p][/quote]I am medically and academically trained. I could also tell you all of the police codes of conduct in my sleep. I have specific training in safeguarding and could wipe the floor with all of you with regards to my knowledge and awareness. I will not back down from my view and just because we don't agree with your pathetic little arguments doesn't mean we aren't trained or aware of these issues and how to handle them. The difference is just because she has autism I don't think she should be treated differently in regards to having to be restrained after abusing 2 individuals! That is not what PACE or anything on the mental health act actually states. I'm sorry but it's not about special treatment its about awareness and best practice when coming across and dealing with these situations and they were followed. End of story. Using capital letters just makes you look like a spoilt brat not getting your own way. You'll find your views are in the minority.[/p][/quote]THE USE OF CAPITALS IS TO HIGHLIGHT YOUR IGNORANCE! A POLICEMAN / WOMAN ARE YOU? IF YOU ARE TRAINED TO DEAL WITH THESE ISSUES THEN YOU AND MANY OF YOUR COLLEAGUES ARE EITHER INCOMPETENT OR YOU JUST DON'T GIVE A DAM ABOUT YOUR DESPICABLE ACTIONS! I WAS ACTUALLY TOLD BY AN INSPECTOR THAT THE POLICE ARE NOT PROPERLY TRAINED IN SUCH ISSUES AND ONLY RECEIVE VERY BASIC TRAINING! go on then, wipe the floor with us and tell us the procedures regarding the safer handling and detention of persons in police custody relating to mentally vulnerable detainees. I equal your qualifications and also have first hand experience of Merseyside police brutality upon vulnerable people including children. I an very aware of the mental health act and the disability discrimination act, also the offences against the child act to name just a few. i know without looking anything up that procedures were clearly not followed. You are entitled to your opinion which will obviously be bias being a member of the police force. I am entitled to my opinion which i believe is the view of the general public. sihii123
  • Score: -15

10:44pm Sun 20 Apr 14

JayDeee says...

Having a view is not ignorant, it's having a view. And jumping to conclusions and basically confirming you know nothing in fact no I'm not a police man or woman. I am a ”general member of the public" that you believe apparently has your appauling views on the police. I'm not denying you may have apparent "proof" of poor wrong doings but does that mean that every member of every police force is the same? No it doesn't and just because 1 inspector gave his opinion on training doesn't mean that it's the case across every team and every force. Regardless, nobody said that they didn't need further training. Who doesn't need further training or awareness of everything in life??? That doesn't mean that they didn't handle the situation correctly or that any other time a similar situation happens that those police officers won't handle it correctly. I'd like to see you do their job. You'll soon change your tune if you had to deal with what they did each day.
Having a view is not ignorant, it's having a view. And jumping to conclusions and basically confirming you know nothing in fact no I'm not a police man or woman. I am a ”general member of the public" that you believe apparently has your appauling views on the police. I'm not denying you may have apparent "proof" of poor wrong doings but does that mean that every member of every police force is the same? No it doesn't and just because 1 inspector gave his opinion on training doesn't mean that it's the case across every team and every force. Regardless, nobody said that they didn't need further training. Who doesn't need further training or awareness of everything in life??? That doesn't mean that they didn't handle the situation correctly or that any other time a similar situation happens that those police officers won't handle it correctly. I'd like to see you do their job. You'll soon change your tune if you had to deal with what they did each day. JayDeee
  • Score: 10

11:22pm Sun 20 Apr 14

sihii123 says...

i know a lot more than most on police brutality and corruption within Merseyside police force. where exactly did i say EVERY member of the police force is the same? i posted a comment only today praising a member of the police force for his actions! so now who is jumping to conclusions! The officers handled the situation with this young woman in a totally incorrect manner. I would like you to know that i have worked with violent, vulnerable people for most of my working life, i have had them attack me, NEVER ONCE have i reacted by hurting them in any way, shape or form, leaving them bruised and marked as this young lady was. The police chose the job they did, being fully aware of the risks, if they cant handle a situation such as this then they should have chosen a career in bakery / carpentry/ sales or something they are not likely to feel threatened by, god forbid they be up against an armed robber! you didn't answer my question about the footage of blatant child abuse by Merseyside police on youtube! Perhaps you think that is also justified. If you are an ordinary member of the public then you should seriously wake up and smell the coffee to whats happening in Merseyside police force, How would you like some proof on the chief constable of Merseyside, Jon Murphy blocking investigations into pedophilia due to deal striking with MP's? If there were not positive proof i would not say it! I suppose you will find that totally incomprehensible, but stay in denial if that makes you feel better. Iv made my point and im now bored with your comments. Goodbye.
i know a lot more than most on police brutality and corruption within Merseyside police force. where exactly did i say EVERY member of the police force is the same? i posted a comment only today praising a member of the police force for his actions! so now who is jumping to conclusions! The officers handled the situation with this young woman in a totally incorrect manner. I would like you to know that i have worked with violent, vulnerable people for most of my working life, i have had them attack me, NEVER ONCE have i reacted by hurting them in any way, shape or form, leaving them bruised and marked as this young lady was. The police chose the job they did, being fully aware of the risks, if they cant handle a situation such as this then they should have chosen a career in bakery / carpentry/ sales or something they are not likely to feel threatened by, god forbid they be up against an armed robber! you didn't answer my question about the footage of blatant child abuse by Merseyside police on youtube! Perhaps you think that is also justified. If you are an ordinary member of the public then you should seriously wake up and smell the coffee to whats happening in Merseyside police force, How would you like some proof on the chief constable of Merseyside, Jon Murphy blocking investigations into pedophilia due to deal striking with MP's? If there were not positive proof i would not say it! I suppose you will find that totally incomprehensible, but stay in denial if that makes you feel better. Iv made my point and im now bored with your comments. Goodbye. sihii123
  • Score: -12

11:06am Mon 21 Apr 14

uncatom says...

sihii 123, your stated professionalism shines through in your responses, calling people stupid, pathetic, shouting (as in capital letters) obviously helps to calm people down, your continuing attacks on Merseyside police highlights a specific personal issue that you appear to hold against them.

The main purpose of the police is to maintain law and order, they are not care workers, hence the brief training in certain fields, to imply that all Merseyside police officers are thugs and bullies is quite wrong there are good and bad as in any other walk of life, its quite easy to stand on the sidelines and snipe, the story was given to the press by the relatives of the young girl, on reading the account people may find they have varying points of view which they have published on here, and for you to continually judge them and call them names because you don't agree with what they have written is wrong, I did view some of your suggested clips on youtube, again those being arrested appeared to be out of control, its not as if the police have gone out on the streets like the child catcher and dragged them in for no reason, they must have committed some offence, the moral of the story is don't break the law then you wont get arrested, don't resist and you wont be manhandled, just because they appear to be children they are still capable of violence, extreme in some cases.
sihii 123, your stated professionalism shines through in your responses, calling people stupid, pathetic, shouting (as in capital letters) obviously helps to calm people down, your continuing attacks on Merseyside police highlights a specific personal issue that you appear to hold against them. The main purpose of the police is to maintain law and order, they are not care workers, hence the brief training in certain fields, to imply that all Merseyside police officers are thugs and bullies is quite wrong there are good and bad as in any other walk of life, its quite easy to stand on the sidelines and snipe, the story was given to the press by the relatives of the young girl, on reading the account people may find they have varying points of view which they have published on here, and for you to continually judge them and call them names because you don't agree with what they have written is wrong, I did view some of your suggested clips on youtube, again those being arrested appeared to be out of control, its not as if the police have gone out on the streets like the child catcher and dragged them in for no reason, they must have committed some offence, the moral of the story is don't break the law then you wont get arrested, don't resist and you wont be manhandled, just because they appear to be children they are still capable of violence, extreme in some cases. uncatom
  • Score: 12

11:32am Mon 21 Apr 14

Dantealighieri says...

I've just read the article and the comments. I have also just wasted 5 minutes of my life looking at Youtube and the supposed police brutality. Brutality? I've seen more brutality from shoppers at the reduced items counter in Morrisons. JayDee, points well made, clear, precise, absence of emotional axe to grind claptrap.
I've just read the article and the comments. I have also just wasted 5 minutes of my life looking at Youtube and the supposed police brutality. Brutality? I've seen more brutality from shoppers at the reduced items counter in Morrisons. JayDee, points well made, clear, precise, absence of emotional axe to grind claptrap. Dantealighieri
  • Score: 13

8:30pm Mon 21 Apr 14

sihii123 says...

uncatom: you are so right, indeed i do have personal issues involving Merseyside police, i make no secret of it, not with one or two, with around 40. No, i am not a criminal nor a lawbreaker! Your lack of humanism and compassion and disregard for a persons human rights, regardless who the person is shows the type of person you are. Police indeed do play an important role, they are essential and needed, i have not stated otherwise, nor did i state that all Merseyside police are bad, it appears you are so full of wanting an argument that you are reading things that have not been printed! What suggested clips were you viewing as you imply "those being arrested as out of control" The clips i mentioned are of one little girl, she is not out of control, she is a seriously ill child! you need some education on mental health as you clearly don't have a clue. The child in the footage should have been treated as a medical emergency, this was confirmed by the PSD.
Dantealighieri: If you consider such actions on a 14 year old severely ill child to be anything less than brutal, then i suggest you go and see a doctor as there is something seriously wrong with your way of thinking, To defend such actions, described by numerous social service workers and doctors as absolutely appalling and as clear and disturbing child abuse, suggests you have a very big problem! I see none of you have commented on the pedophilia cover up by Merseysides chief constable.....i wonder why that it!
uncatom: you are so right, indeed i do have personal issues involving Merseyside police, i make no secret of it, not with one or two, with around 40. No, i am not a criminal nor a lawbreaker! Your lack of humanism and compassion and disregard for a persons human rights, regardless who the person is shows the type of person you are. Police indeed do play an important role, they are essential and needed, i have not stated otherwise, nor did i state that all Merseyside police are bad, it appears you are so full of wanting an argument that you are reading things that have not been printed! What suggested clips were you viewing as you imply "those being arrested as out of control" The clips i mentioned are of one little girl, she is not out of control, she is a seriously ill child! you need some education on mental health as you clearly don't have a clue. The child in the footage should have been treated as a medical emergency, this was confirmed by the PSD. Dantealighieri: If you consider such actions on a 14 year old severely ill child to be anything less than brutal, then i suggest you go and see a doctor as there is something seriously wrong with your way of thinking, To defend such actions, described by numerous social service workers and doctors as absolutely appalling and as clear and disturbing child abuse, suggests you have a very big problem! I see none of you have commented on the pedophilia cover up by Merseysides chief constable.....i wonder why that it! sihii123
  • Score: -10

8:46pm Mon 21 Apr 14

uncatom says...

Well if its a cover up how would we know about it to comment ? you have made an allegation with no specifics other than you know about it, has it been verified ? and if it has then why haven't the guilty been arrested? I am sure the media would be interested in your story and if true, pursue the guilty and quite rightly so.
Well if its a cover up how would we know about it to comment ? you have made an allegation with no specifics other than you know about it, has it been verified ? and if it has then why haven't the guilty been arrested? I am sure the media would be interested in your story and if true, pursue the guilty and quite rightly so. uncatom
  • Score: 8

10:12pm Mon 21 Apr 14

sihii123 says...

you know about it because iv just told you, you didn't know about it before because it is a cover up! It has been verified by the chief constables continued silence when challenged over it! You clearly seem very naive! The guilty have not been arrested as MP's and the chief constable Jon Murphy have deal striking going on. The media do not always cover stories like this where there may be a conflict of interests....look at Saville and the BBC! The Echo are in fact aware of it but there response is that it is of no concern to the...because they also deal strike with the chief constable for exclusives on criminal cases... one exclusive against the police or several exclusives involving some juicy criminal cases. I am shortly to confront these issues to the chief constables face....he will not respond however as then he would have to ask for the proof which we have, so maintaining silence is his best option, BTW, he has been challenged on this several times, even invited to discuss it publicly but refuses to do so. If anyone were accusing me publicly of blocking pedophile investigations and cover ups id certainly be challenging such serious allegations.....if they were untrue!
you know about it because iv just told you, you didn't know about it before because it is a cover up! It has been verified by the chief constables continued silence when challenged over it! You clearly seem very naive! The guilty have not been arrested as MP's and the chief constable Jon Murphy have deal striking going on. The media do not always cover stories like this where there may be a conflict of interests....look at Saville and the BBC! The Echo are in fact aware of it but there response is that it is of no concern to the...because they also deal strike with the chief constable for exclusives on criminal cases... one exclusive against the police or several exclusives involving some juicy criminal cases. I am shortly to confront these issues to the chief constables face....he will not respond however as then he would have to ask for the proof which we have, so maintaining silence is his best option, BTW, he has been challenged on this several times, even invited to discuss it publicly but refuses to do so. If anyone were accusing me publicly of blocking pedophile investigations and cover ups id certainly be challenging such serious allegations.....if they were untrue! sihii123
  • Score: -9

10:36pm Mon 21 Apr 14

JayDeee says...

Wow sihii123 you digress, how the accused peadophealia situation has anything to do with mental health and the handling of it I have no idea.

You clearly view yourself as some saviour and have a god complex so good luck with that. With regards to the topic that we were actually discussing you really need to understand that people are entitled to their opinion and if they don't agree with you it doesn't mean that they are inept or lack training or even naive. I actually feel sorry for the causes you appear to fight for as you merely make it look ridiculous and like a witch hunt. That is no way to get support.
Wow sihii123 you digress, how the accused peadophealia situation has anything to do with mental health and the handling of it I have no idea. You clearly view yourself as some saviour and have a god complex so good luck with that. With regards to the topic that we were actually discussing you really need to understand that people are entitled to their opinion and if they don't agree with you it doesn't mean that they are inept or lack training or even naive. I actually feel sorry for the causes you appear to fight for as you merely make it look ridiculous and like a witch hunt. That is no way to get support. JayDeee
  • Score: 14

11:41pm Mon 21 Apr 14

sihii123 says...

JayDeee....I was asked a question and i answered it. The discussion turned into this as i was pointing out police wrongdoings! Do not speculate on what i think. My concern is for my fellow human beings, that includes the decent police officers! I believe in fairness and i despise corruption, don't feel sorry for the causes i fight, many people appreciate me as they are unable to fight for themselves. At last i have passion and i make a stand for what i believe in and i look far from ridiculous. Maybe you think i would be better following your example and slating this poor young woman and her mother.....im sure that will get you lots of support!
JayDeee....I was asked a question and i answered it. The discussion turned into this as i was pointing out police wrongdoings! Do not speculate on what i think. My concern is for my fellow human beings, that includes the decent police officers! I believe in fairness and i despise corruption, don't feel sorry for the causes i fight, many people appreciate me as they are unable to fight for themselves. At last i have passion and i make a stand for what i believe in and i look far from ridiculous. Maybe you think i would be better following your example and slating this poor young woman and her mother.....im sure that will get you lots of support! sihii123
  • Score: -10

12:46am Wed 23 Apr 14

PaulCa says...

Good job the police were ready and primed to step in when Wirral Council thieved £736,756.97 from many learning disabled people across an 8 year period.

Except they didn't bother in the end did they? They then stood by as the senior officer culprits were paid off in six figures, granted clean bills of health and protected in their search for future well paid jobs in the "Care" sector.

Which gives you another stark insight into their very lax and non-caring modus operandi.
Good job the police were ready and primed to step in when Wirral Council thieved £736,756.97 from many learning disabled people across an 8 year period. Except they didn't bother in the end did they? They then stood by as the senior officer culprits were paid off in six figures, granted clean bills of health and protected in their search for future well paid jobs in the "Care" sector. Which gives you another stark insight into their very lax and non-caring modus operandi. PaulCa
  • Score: -9

7:06am Wed 23 Apr 14

sihii123 says...

PaulaCa
Well said, i remember it well, poor Mr Merton who blew the whistle was persecuted out of his job for having the guts to spill the beans, the same situation decent police officers find themselves in if they dare to speak up.
PaulaCa Well said, i remember it well, poor Mr Merton who blew the whistle was persecuted out of his job for having the guts to spill the beans, the same situation decent police officers find themselves in if they dare to speak up. sihii123
  • Score: -7

9:25am Wed 23 Apr 14

itme says...

It appears that certain individuals are using this page to attack the police ( to deflect from the real issue ? ).Everybody knows that the police are not perfect ,. The facts are ; 1. Trained social workers , who despite their training were unable to deal with a violent 20 year old , decided that the police should be called . 2.The police for the protection of everybody. restrained the violent 20 year old . 3. The "concerned" mother decided to leave the scene before the police arrived. 4 The violent 20 year old was released from handcuffs when medical staff thought it was safe to do so.
It appears that certain individuals are using this page to attack the police ( to deflect from the real issue ? ).Everybody knows that the police are not perfect ,. The facts are ; 1. Trained social workers , who despite their training were unable to deal with a violent 20 year old , decided that the police should be called . 2.The police for the protection of everybody. restrained the violent 20 year old . 3. The "concerned" mother decided to leave the scene before the police arrived. 4 The violent 20 year old was released from handcuffs when medical staff thought it was safe to do so. itme
  • Score: 11

10:07am Wed 23 Apr 14

Roadkill says...

Mental health issues are relatively knew in terms of society treating them with the same levels of understanding as those afforded to those with physical disabilities. Everyone is learning, including the police. The individual officers are not at fault here; it's the Met as a whole that needs to train their officers how to deal with these situations properly.
Mental health issues are relatively knew in terms of society treating them with the same levels of understanding as those afforded to those with physical disabilities. Everyone is learning, including the police. The individual officers are not at fault here; it's the Met as a whole that needs to train their officers how to deal with these situations properly. Roadkill
  • Score: -7

3:22pm Wed 23 Apr 14

Llamedos 1 says...

So we seem to have a fairly even split over the integrity of the police. Personally I was subjected to violence for them some years ago when they told the court that I was violent towards them.....this was a pack of lies. Indeed there are many incidences of lying and thugery from the police. I believe the police force has been going slowly down the pan for some 30 years. Yes there are some good and some bad but like in any other organisation the bad drag down the good. And dont forget also they all roll up the same trouser legs along with the council upper crusts which is why the police will never take any legal action against council members......corrupt
ion all around us, cynical maybe but the evidence is there. Finally to all you police supporters, if one of your children ended up handcuffed and left with bruises not just around the wrists would you then be supportive of these brave police officers.....dont think so.
So we seem to have a fairly even split over the integrity of the police. Personally I was subjected to violence for them some years ago when they told the court that I was violent towards them.....this was a pack of lies. Indeed there are many incidences of lying and thugery from the police. I believe the police force has been going slowly down the pan for some 30 years. Yes there are some good and some bad but like in any other organisation the bad drag down the good. And dont forget also they all roll up the same trouser legs along with the council upper crusts which is why the police will never take any legal action against council members......corrupt ion all around us, cynical maybe but the evidence is there. Finally to all you police supporters, if one of your children ended up handcuffed and left with bruises not just around the wrists would you then be supportive of these brave police officers.....dont think so. Llamedos 1
  • Score: -8

9:49pm Wed 23 Apr 14

sihii123 says...

lets just make a few things clear:
1. Social workers are not qualified psychiatrists/psycho
logists/therapists, most are not trained in dealing with often complex areas of mental health. Once office hours are over there is no adequate support for the carers, they are told by the social workers to call the police, this is to cover themselves as they cant simply say something like "tough, were all off duty, get on with it yourself!" The mother said herself she did not want to call the police.
2. i agree. The young woman was restrained in handcuffs for the protection of all, herself, the police officers and others.
3. Has it occurred to those slating the mother for leaving the house that it may have been so heartbreaking for this woman to watch her child being restrained that she just couldn't cope with watching it?
4. Once in the hospital the young woman would have been taken into a private room, her mother, who having brought her up for 20 years would have assessed her daughters behavior and knew if it would be safe to remove the handcuffs, she had assessed earlier the need for restraint. I do not know precisely how the officers involved responded to the young woman's distress, or the mothers pleas to remove the handcuffs but i speak from personal experience of witnessing numerous Merseyside police officers in situations like the one in this story and i can tell you it is not acceptable, The aggression i have witnessed in their faces, iv walked into a room just as one was telling a child he would break her f****** fingers, another call a vulnerable child a filthy little tip rat, another tell the child they were mental, nuts and that's why they go to the loony school. This isn't lack of training, this is vicious, nasty bullying. Only once have i seen two police officers adequately restrain a child in an appropriate manner with not only the need for handcuffs but also leg restraints. Though unpleasant to witness and resulted in some inevitable bruising on the wrists, it was done in an acceptable manner in accordance with police policy and procedure......which proves that if these two officers are aware of how to restrain a vulnerable person exactly how they should then their colleagues should also be aware of these procedures!
lets just make a few things clear: 1. Social workers are not qualified psychiatrists/psycho logists/therapists, most are not trained in dealing with often complex areas of mental health. Once office hours are over there is no adequate support for the carers, they are told by the social workers to call the police, this is to cover themselves as they cant simply say something like "tough, were all off duty, get on with it yourself!" The mother said herself she did not want to call the police. 2. i agree. The young woman was restrained in handcuffs for the protection of all, herself, the police officers and others. 3. Has it occurred to those slating the mother for leaving the house that it may have been so heartbreaking for this woman to watch her child being restrained that she just couldn't cope with watching it? 4. Once in the hospital the young woman would have been taken into a private room, her mother, who having brought her up for 20 years would have assessed her daughters behavior and knew if it would be safe to remove the handcuffs, she had assessed earlier the need for restraint. I do not know precisely how the officers involved responded to the young woman's distress, or the mothers pleas to remove the handcuffs but i speak from personal experience of witnessing numerous Merseyside police officers in situations like the one in this story and i can tell you it is not acceptable, The aggression i have witnessed in their faces, iv walked into a room just as one was telling a child he would break her f****** fingers, another call a vulnerable child a filthy little tip rat, another tell the child they were mental, nuts and that's why they go to the loony school. This isn't lack of training, this is vicious, nasty bullying. Only once have i seen two police officers adequately restrain a child in an appropriate manner with not only the need for handcuffs but also leg restraints. Though unpleasant to witness and resulted in some inevitable bruising on the wrists, it was done in an acceptable manner in accordance with police policy and procedure......which proves that if these two officers are aware of how to restrain a vulnerable person exactly how they should then their colleagues should also be aware of these procedures! sihii123
  • Score: -7

7:50am Fri 25 Apr 14

uncatom says...

I should think we would all be police supporters, good, bad or indifferent we never no when we need to call them for assistance, many of us have had some negative experience with them I'am sure, but overall they fare pretty well.

As to sihii, you make many assumptions based on your oft quoted experiences, you weren't actually there and according to the report neither was the mother, yet she states that four officers were present ,two waited at the door etc so she must be quoting second hand information, you are basically quoting a hypothetical situation based on past experiences and second hand information provided by family members who at best were upset, you then state that the woman that had brought her up for twenty years, would know when to release the handcuffs ( the same woman that left relatives to deal with the situation) you criticise the social workers in not so many words, it appears that no one can match up to your knowledge and experience of these matters what ever actions they take.
I should think we would all be police supporters, good, bad or indifferent we never no when we need to call them for assistance, many of us have had some negative experience with them I'am sure, but overall they fare pretty well. As to sihii, you make many assumptions based on your oft quoted experiences, you weren't actually there and according to the report neither was the mother, yet she states that four officers were present ,two waited at the door etc so she must be quoting second hand information, you are basically quoting a hypothetical situation based on past experiences and second hand information provided by family members who at best were upset, you then state that the woman that had brought her up for twenty years, would know when to release the handcuffs ( the same woman that left relatives to deal with the situation) you criticise the social workers in not so many words, it appears that no one can match up to your knowledge and experience of these matters what ever actions they take. uncatom
  • Score: 6

12:16pm Fri 25 Apr 14

Roadkill says...

Every experience I have ever had with Merseyside police has been a positive one, from the times when I've called them to sort out incidents of violence outside the pub opposite my house to the time when they pulled me over for having a broken headlamp, they've been nothing less than professional. Big up for Merseyside police.
Every experience I have ever had with Merseyside police has been a positive one, from the times when I've called them to sort out incidents of violence outside the pub opposite my house to the time when they pulled me over for having a broken headlamp, they've been nothing less than professional. Big up for Merseyside police. Roadkill
  • Score: 4

2:33pm Fri 25 Apr 14

sihii123 says...

obviously we must agree to disagree. Just for the record though, i have worked as a social worker. My ex partner was a senior ranking police officer, I have two mentally ill grown up children , two autistic grandsons and an autistic nephew, perhaps i do have just a little bit more knowledge of issues relating to police, social services, the vulnerable and their families than give me credit for. Goodbye!
obviously we must agree to disagree. Just for the record though, i have worked as a social worker. My ex partner was a senior ranking police officer, I have two mentally ill grown up children , two autistic grandsons and an autistic nephew, perhaps i do have just a little bit more knowledge of issues relating to police, social services, the vulnerable and their families than give me credit for. Goodbye! sihii123
  • Score: -3

5:03pm Fri 25 Apr 14

Roadkill says...

"I have two mentally ill grown up children , two autistic grandsons and an autistic nephew". And a partridge in a pear tree.
"I have two mentally ill grown up children , two autistic grandsons and an autistic nephew". And a partridge in a pear tree. Roadkill
  • Score: 4

7:00pm Fri 25 Apr 14

sihii123 says...

You also have the mentality of a twiglet roadkill.
You also have the mentality of a twiglet roadkill. sihii123
  • Score: -7

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