Backlash: Developers under fire after New Brighton counts cost of storm damage

Wirral Globe: New Brighton after the storm of 1990 New Brighton after the storm of 1990

The aftermath of New Brighton’s worst storm for 20 years has brought condemnation that the flooding and devastation was “a tragic but sadly predictable event.”

New Brighton Action Group formed the principal opposition to the original proposals to regenerate the resort, involving proposals to fill in the Marine Lake to create a site for commercial development.

Wirral Globe: Gale force winds and high tides cause chaos at Wirral coastal towns

Storm damage: New Brighton prom under water after yesterday's flood

A petition against the venture was signed by around 22,000 people and, following a lengthy public inquiry, the government threw out the scheme. The development was moved to the site of the former New Brighton open air bathing pool which had to be demolished following storm as fierce as this week’s in 1990.

A spokesman for the Action Group said today: “How regrettable that expert evidence, submitted by the Action Group at the public inquiry – warning of the extreme vulnerability of those waterfront sites for development – was largely dismissed.

“This evidence even included video footage of the horrifying magnitude of the earlier catastrophic storm, inflicting fatal damage on the New Brighton Lido – on the very same site of the current retail and leisure development.”

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The spokesman went on: “The storm and flooding was a tragic and predictable event and sincere condolences are sent to the organisations, businesses and individuals that have suffered such heartbreaking damage and loss, particularly on the run-up to Christmas.

“The increased bustle and popularity of New Brighton that the development has certainly achieved is applauded. But it is sad that this has been done in such a hackneyed way that is alien to the best of the resort’s character.

“It is a pity that because of prior agreements between the council and a single developer, other potentially more exciting approaches to the regeneration of the town could not be considered, as competition was barred.”

A spokesman for Neptune, developers of the £50m Marine Point venture at New Brighton, said today: “I’m sure people will be saying we shouldn’t have built there, but everything we did was built to stand up to a pretty significant hundreds of years flood event.

“From looking what has happened elsewhere in the country, it was a severe unprecedented event – it was more severe flooding than we expected.

“Everyone seems to be safe – which can’t be said for everywhere – and that’s what we have to be thankful for.”

The car park is presently closed at Marine Point to allow teams to carry out work to ensure businesses can be opened as soon as possible.

Visitors are being asked to park on the promenade and to call restaurants to check they are open.

The Neptune spokesman added: “It is still an ongoing situation. Everyone is pulling together and working very hard to get things up and running.

“One of the issues is that the power is out at the moment because of the flooding so a couple of businesses will be making arrangements to get their own generator in the interim while we get things sorted.

“We would like to thank the emergency services for how quickly they reacted and Scottish Power for doing all they can to get the power back on.”

New Brighton businessman Tony Hurst, whose seafront arcade was flooded in the storms, was also critical of the measures taken to keep the sea at bay.

He said: “All these fantastic sea defences they promised which was supposed to prevent this have crumbled like the Maginot Line – the water has just gone round them.”

Comments (86)

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11:37am Fri 6 Dec 13

artemis81 says...

That's a statement that NBAG have had prepared for years, so predictable. It was a freak set of circumstances, that's it. It'll be business as usual in a couple of days and you can crawl back under your stone.
That's a statement that NBAG have had prepared for years, so predictable. It was a freak set of circumstances, that's it. It'll be business as usual in a couple of days and you can crawl back under your stone. artemis81

11:59am Fri 6 Dec 13

ballacrain says...

Is any one opening a book as to how long before it happens again. The prom at New Brighton has flooded on several occasions during my lifetime and it will flood again and again.
These buildings are on land taken from the sea and the sea wants it back.
Ballacrain
Is any one opening a book as to how long before it happens again. The prom at New Brighton has flooded on several occasions during my lifetime and it will flood again and again. These buildings are on land taken from the sea and the sea wants it back. Ballacrain ballacrain

12:04pm Fri 6 Dec 13

artemis81 says...

ballacrain wrote:
Is any one opening a book as to how long before it happens again. The prom at New Brighton has flooded on several occasions during my lifetime and it will flood again and again.
These buildings are on land taken from the sea and the sea wants it back.
Ballacrain
Aha, me old salty seadog... I think you are being overly poetic about a freak event. The facts don't back up what you say.
[quote][p][bold]ballacrain[/bold] wrote: Is any one opening a book as to how long before it happens again. The prom at New Brighton has flooded on several occasions during my lifetime and it will flood again and again. These buildings are on land taken from the sea and the sea wants it back. Ballacrain[/p][/quote]Aha, me old salty seadog... I think you are being overly poetic about a freak event. The facts don't back up what you say. artemis81

12:12pm Fri 6 Dec 13

Moogos says...

To build a Morrissons there is sheer stupidity. The council were warned but nobody took any notice. With even a moderate blow (and this was moderate, all the wind being on the East of UK in the North Sea) with NW winds on spring tides lining up with bad weather equals this. The phenomena is seen about once every 8 years on average. This was a 5 on 10 in ferocity as I see it, wait until it is worse, people will eventually lose their lives I'm sure. Im a local fisherman, not an angler with a rod on the prom, so I know. Bad decisions again from the planning committee.
To build a Morrissons there is sheer stupidity. The council were warned but nobody took any notice. With even a moderate blow (and this was moderate, all the wind being on the East of UK in the North Sea) with NW winds on spring tides lining up with bad weather equals this. The phenomena is seen about once every 8 years on average. This was a 5 on 10 in ferocity as I see it, wait until it is worse, people will eventually lose their lives I'm sure. Im a local fisherman, not an angler with a rod on the prom, so I know. Bad decisions again from the planning committee. Moogos

12:19pm Fri 6 Dec 13

Moogos says...

"but everything we did was built to stand up to a pretty significant hundreds of years flood event. " < -bo****cks this wasnt even that rough here, who are these people??!! This was simply a bit of a storm surge on a NW spring. Wait until its a proper NW storm, that tin shed will get blown away (hopefully not with everyone still in it) you got warned and didn't listen.
"but everything we did was built to stand up to a pretty significant hundreds of years flood event. " < -bo****cks this wasnt even that rough here, who are these people??!! This was simply a bit of a storm surge on a NW spring. Wait until its a proper NW storm, that tin shed will get blown away (hopefully not with everyone still in it) you got warned and didn't listen. Moogos

12:24pm Fri 6 Dec 13

artemis81 says...

"Man the lifeboats!"
"Man the lifeboats!" artemis81

12:27pm Fri 6 Dec 13

cyberchick says...

The storm that damaged the old baths that were then demolished was in 1990 not 1981!!
The storm that damaged the old baths that were then demolished was in 1990 not 1981!! cyberchick

12:43pm Fri 6 Dec 13

Hon says...

Thats still 20 years ago. So many people now coming out saying 'oo told you so' guess what I go down there and finally New Brighton is back on the map. These people are jumping on the bandwagon trying to condem people who got on with the task of getting jobs into Wirral. I would point out that no matter what kind fo defences you have they will always bulk under something that is unprecidented. heck the dips were even flooded.
Thats still 20 years ago. So many people now coming out saying 'oo told you so' guess what I go down there and finally New Brighton is back on the map. These people are jumping on the bandwagon trying to condem people who got on with the task of getting jobs into Wirral. I would point out that no matter what kind fo defences you have they will always bulk under something that is unprecidented. heck the dips were even flooded. Hon

1:11pm Fri 6 Dec 13

fenix uk says...

What did New Brighton Action Group want on the site instead ? I know I've spent £100s in the new cinema cafes and restaurants there - let alone the supermarket.

If a storm like that happens once every 10 years even (which is unlikely) - its still worth having Marine Point there.

No flood defences could cope with those waves. Nature is too powerful - so best we can do is make plans for when it does happen.

And its great to see the community banding together to get the businesses back up and running.
What did New Brighton Action Group want on the site instead ? I know I've spent £100s in the new cinema cafes and restaurants there - let alone the supermarket. If a storm like that happens once every 10 years even (which is unlikely) - its still worth having Marine Point there. No flood defences could cope with those waves. Nature is too powerful - so best we can do is make plans for when it does happen. And its great to see the community banding together to get the businesses back up and running. fenix uk

1:58pm Fri 6 Dec 13

rover600 says...

All the whiners, wow, so what? Are you picking up the tab for the mess? No, The whine well the council is picking up the tab, well guess what they would be picking up the tab whether these buildings were there or not! if it wasn't there would the previous eyesore have flooded? Yes! The bottom line is all of the businesses along there know the risk as do their insurers, despite the so called 'disaster' these companies will still make money and I suspect anyone knowing the risks of this happeneing every five years would still go ahead.
This area is significantly better than the 'dog hole' it was before, there are more people visiting the area than before and what is there is sustainable and vibrant, it is with price we now take our friends and visiting relatives to New Brighton as opposed to avoiding it previously.
All the whiners, wow, so what? Are you picking up the tab for the mess? No, The whine well the council is picking up the tab, well guess what they would be picking up the tab whether these buildings were there or not! if it wasn't there would the previous eyesore have flooded? Yes! The bottom line is all of the businesses along there know the risk as do their insurers, despite the so called 'disaster' these companies will still make money and I suspect anyone knowing the risks of this happeneing every five years would still go ahead. This area is significantly better than the 'dog hole' it was before, there are more people visiting the area than before and what is there is sustainable and vibrant, it is with price we now take our friends and visiting relatives to New Brighton as opposed to avoiding it previously. rover600

2:07pm Fri 6 Dec 13

Dantealighieri says...

Thank God nobody has blamed Global Warming.
Thank God nobody has blamed Global Warming. Dantealighieri

3:00pm Fri 6 Dec 13

radcliffejeff says...

I blame global warning
I blame global warning radcliffejeff

3:16pm Fri 6 Dec 13

community1 says...

Some people are never positive about anything? New Brighton will be up and running in a few days maybe a bit longer for Morrissons to continue on its well trodden path of recovery as it looks to the future unlike the negative people here who just look to the past as if that was a magical formula. We knew it was going to happen (as history dictates) but hey having Marine Point is well worth the risk as the amount of people that use it now can testify, particularly the families using the cinema and the eating establishments.
This Council should be congratulated achieving this regeneration in a recession and bringing so many local jobs to the area, well done to them and keep ignoring the doom and gloom merchants!
Some people are never positive about anything? New Brighton will be up and running in a few days maybe a bit longer for Morrissons to continue on its well trodden path of recovery as it looks to the future unlike the negative people here who just look to the past as if that was a magical formula. We knew it was going to happen (as history dictates) but hey having Marine Point is well worth the risk as the amount of people that use it now can testify, particularly the families using the cinema and the eating establishments. This Council should be congratulated achieving this regeneration in a recession and bringing so many local jobs to the area, well done to them and keep ignoring the doom and gloom merchants! community1

4:08pm Fri 6 Dec 13

WirralAl says...

You have to blame Pat Hackett as he knows New Brighton well enough. All they need to do is put some rocks in front of the wall to absorb the force of the waves and that should help prevent it from being so bad next time.

Feel for the people that lost out.

At least New Brighton is a lot better than it was so thanks Pat and well done to the council for the swift clean up!
You have to blame Pat Hackett as he knows New Brighton well enough. All they need to do is put some rocks in front of the wall to absorb the force of the waves and that should help prevent it from being so bad next time. Feel for the people that lost out. At least New Brighton is a lot better than it was so thanks Pat and well done to the council for the swift clean up! WirralAl

4:37pm Fri 6 Dec 13

Joeblogg85 says...

Three cheers for Sir Pat of New Brighton! Hip hip hooray! Seriously, a big thumbs up for Councillor Hackett. He stuck by his guns when the naysayers where out in force.

I agree with other in that NB was a right tip before the regeneration and it still would be if it wasn't for Sir Pat and others.

The Council stuck to it's guns, the area is regenerated and jobs created. It's win win.
Three cheers for Sir Pat of New Brighton! Hip hip hooray! Seriously, a big thumbs up for Councillor Hackett. He stuck by his guns when the naysayers where out in force. I agree with other in that NB was a right tip before the regeneration and it still would be if it wasn't for Sir Pat and others. The Council stuck to it's guns, the area is regenerated and jobs created. It's win win. Joeblogg85

5:56pm Fri 6 Dec 13

hildebrand says...

"sea front businessman complains about the sea"

*shakes head*
"sea front businessman complains about the sea" *shakes head* hildebrand

6:36pm Fri 6 Dec 13

merseymal says...

'Action Group' my arse. Action is the last thing that lot wanted.
'Action Group' my arse. Action is the last thing that lot wanted. merseymal

6:59pm Fri 6 Dec 13

EddieGremlin says...

If you build it they will come.... Maybe the sea and predictable weather will have something to say about it... The South of France we are not..
If you build it they will come.... Maybe the sea and predictable weather will have something to say about it... The South of France we are not.. EddieGremlin

7:37pm Fri 6 Dec 13

Positive thinker says...

NBAG need tying to the railings in time for the next storm
NBAG need tying to the railings in time for the next storm Positive thinker

8:50pm Fri 6 Dec 13

antisthenes says...

Moogos is 100% correct; I witnessed the storm driven demolition of the old New Brighton baths when the sea undermined the foundations causing the entire building to subside and collapse; the recent storm whilst strong is by no means as bad as it gets;another storm is inevitable its just a matter of time; and the next one may prove even more catastrophic; many who wrote about this risk at the time were cast as party poopers bent on obstructing progress; but Neptune and Council ignored the warnings and we now see the result.
Moogos is 100% correct; I witnessed the storm driven demolition of the old New Brighton baths when the sea undermined the foundations causing the entire building to subside and collapse; the recent storm whilst strong is by no means as bad as it gets;another storm is inevitable its just a matter of time; and the next one may prove even more catastrophic; many who wrote about this risk at the time were cast as party poopers bent on obstructing progress; but Neptune and Council ignored the warnings and we now see the result. antisthenes

10:03am Sat 7 Dec 13

Heycock says...

As I see it, it's a problem for Morrison's and their insurers. If they were happy to take the chance that's fine by me. Same for the other businesses. I'm just glad they did take the chance...For god's sake, have some people forgotten what a shithole New Brighton had become?
The costs of the damage to the development will be borne by the businesses, the developers and their insurers. Damage to the prom and roads will be paid for by the taxpayer. These public costs would have been incurred regardless of the development so why are people playing the "I told you so" card?.
This is just a blip for what is hopefully a bright future for NB.
People who have lived by the coast generally accept these things as part of life.
As I see it, it's a problem for Morrison's and their insurers. If they were happy to take the chance that's fine by me. Same for the other businesses. I'm just glad they did take the chance...For god's sake, have some people forgotten what a shithole New Brighton had become? The costs of the damage to the development will be borne by the businesses, the developers and their insurers. Damage to the prom and roads will be paid for by the taxpayer. These public costs would have been incurred regardless of the development so why are people playing the "I told you so" card?. This is just a blip for what is hopefully a bright future for NB. People who have lived by the coast generally accept these things as part of life. Heycock

1:18pm Sat 7 Dec 13

vision4wirral says...

artemis81 wrote:
That's a statement that NBAG have had prepared for years, so predictable. It was a freak set of circumstances, that's it. It'll be business as usual in a couple of days and you can crawl back under your stone.
The New Brighton Heritage Action Group’s only concern was to achieve the best and most imaginative possible means of revitalising the New Brighton. However, because of a prior agreement with Neptune Developments, competition was totally banned by the Council and residents were forced to accept the building of a gigantic supermarket and retail park on the Resort’s prime seafront or nothing! In a cesspool of vested interests, personal and political ambitions, back-bighting, bullying, lies and gratuitous insults, the Action Group was shouted down, despite the supporting public petition of over 22,000 signatories, as were the repeated warnings about the recklessness of developing on such highly vulnerable, reclaimed sites, as the Marine Lake and the former Lido. The real tragedy is that we will never know what other, potentially far better, proposals for the regeneration of New Brighton could have been achieved by other developers, if fair and open competition had not been disallowed by the Council.
[quote][p][bold]artemis81[/bold] wrote: That's a statement that NBAG have had prepared for years, so predictable. It was a freak set of circumstances, that's it. It'll be business as usual in a couple of days and you can crawl back under your stone.[/p][/quote]The New Brighton Heritage Action Group’s only concern was to achieve the best and most imaginative possible means of revitalising the New Brighton. However, because of a prior agreement with Neptune Developments, competition was totally banned by the Council and residents were forced to accept the building of a gigantic supermarket and retail park on the Resort’s prime seafront or nothing! In a cesspool of vested interests, personal and political ambitions, back-bighting, bullying, lies and gratuitous insults, the Action Group was shouted down, despite the supporting public petition of over 22,000 signatories, as were the repeated warnings about the recklessness of developing on such highly vulnerable, reclaimed sites, as the Marine Lake and the former Lido. The real tragedy is that we will never know what other, potentially far better, proposals for the regeneration of New Brighton could have been achieved by other developers, if fair and open competition had not been disallowed by the Council. vision4wirral

1:20pm Sat 7 Dec 13

vision4wirral says...

artemis81 wrote:
That's a statement that NBAG have had prepared for years, so predictable. It was a freak set of circumstances, that's it. It'll be business as usual in a couple of days and you can crawl back under your stone.
The New Brighton Heritage Action Group’s only concern was to achieve the best and most imaginative possible means of revitalising the New Brighton. However, because of a prior agreement with Neptune Developments, competition was totally banned by the Council and residents were forced to accept the building of a gigantic supermarket and retail park on the Resort’s prime seafront or nothing! In a cesspool of vested interests, personal and political ambitions, back-bighting, bullying, lies and gratuitous insults, the Action Group was shouted down, despite the supporting public petition of over 22,000 signatories, as were the repeated warnings about the recklessness of developing on such highly vulnerable, reclaimed sites, as the Marine Lake and the former Lido. The real tragedy is that we will never know what other, potentially far better, proposals for the regeneration of New Brighton could have been achieved by other developers, if fair and open competition had not been disallowed by the Council.
[quote][p][bold]artemis81[/bold] wrote: That's a statement that NBAG have had prepared for years, so predictable. It was a freak set of circumstances, that's it. It'll be business as usual in a couple of days and you can crawl back under your stone.[/p][/quote]The New Brighton Heritage Action Group’s only concern was to achieve the best and most imaginative possible means of revitalising the New Brighton. However, because of a prior agreement with Neptune Developments, competition was totally banned by the Council and residents were forced to accept the building of a gigantic supermarket and retail park on the Resort’s prime seafront or nothing! In a cesspool of vested interests, personal and political ambitions, back-bighting, bullying, lies and gratuitous insults, the Action Group was shouted down, despite the supporting public petition of over 22,000 signatories, as were the repeated warnings about the recklessness of developing on such highly vulnerable, reclaimed sites, as the Marine Lake and the former Lido. The real tragedy is that we will never know what other, potentially far better, proposals for the regeneration of New Brighton could have been achieved by other developers, if fair and open competition had not been disallowed by the Council. vision4wirral

1:29pm Sat 7 Dec 13

PaulCa says...

Should have built Morrisons inside Fort Perch Rock.

Remove Sir Pat's knighthood now.
Should have built Morrisons inside Fort Perch Rock. Remove Sir Pat's knighthood now. PaulCa

4:58pm Sat 7 Dec 13

yesandorno says...

i think the new development is great .... but id have built it further back and built the land up first , .... theres a reason all the existing businesses are on the other side of the road. .... if they do any more building i hope they make it higher , the lost revenue will cripple the non chains.
i mean , who looks at the site of a building knocked down by a storm and says "this will be perfect , itll never happen again"
i think the new development is great .... but id have built it further back and built the land up first , .... theres a reason all the existing businesses are on the other side of the road. .... if they do any more building i hope they make it higher , the lost revenue will cripple the non chains. i mean , who looks at the site of a building knocked down by a storm and says "this will be perfect , itll never happen again" yesandorno

5:30pm Sat 7 Dec 13

Positive thinker says...

Vision4wirral,

PLONKER
Vision4wirral, PLONKER Positive thinker

6:10pm Sat 7 Dec 13

mary1970 says...

I am one of probably well over 700 people who work in Marine Point. I am also one of probably a few million people that have visited Marine Point since it opened for either leisure or shopping and I am also one of a few million people that would not of come to New Brighton had it been left in the declining state prior to Marine Point.

On a daily basis I serve customers from all over Merseyside and much further beyond who are all extremely grateful that Marine Point is here. Some of the businesses here are rated in the top 10 in the Wirral.

I have just got in from work today after serving lots of very happy and grateful customers and I am so proud of everybody who works here and the Marine Point staff for getting us all back up and running after the storm.

Some of the negative comments on here would suggest that we were flattened on Thursday. Please open your eyes people and accept that Marine Point has been very well received by the vast majority of Merseyside.
I am one of probably well over 700 people who work in Marine Point. I am also one of probably a few million people that have visited Marine Point since it opened for either leisure or shopping and I am also one of a few million people that would not of come to New Brighton had it been left in the declining state prior to Marine Point. On a daily basis I serve customers from all over Merseyside and much further beyond who are all extremely grateful that Marine Point is here. Some of the businesses here are rated in the top 10 in the Wirral. I have just got in from work today after serving lots of very happy and grateful customers and I am so proud of everybody who works here and the Marine Point staff for getting us all back up and running after the storm. Some of the negative comments on here would suggest that we were flattened on Thursday. Please open your eyes people and accept that Marine Point has been very well received by the vast majority of Merseyside. mary1970

6:36pm Sat 7 Dec 13

Positive thinker says...

Mary1970,

Very well said
Mary1970, Very well said Positive thinker

7:33pm Sat 7 Dec 13

Damp_Shopping says...

Some of the people posting on this blog seem to be living in cloud cuckoo land! New Brighton's new development was flooded this week! Fact!

Already, an odd collective of Flood Deniers has been created and they seem determined to explain to the rest of us that black is really white, that bad town planning is really good town planning and that twenty years is really two hundred years in disguise.

I'm 55 years old and in my lifetime, I have witnessed three similar flooding events in New Brighton and all three have affected the land developed recently by Neptune Developments. Why then are Neptune Developments and their supporters trying to tell us that this is, "a once in two hundred year event"? Do they think we're all stupid.

A puddle develops in my driveway at home when it rains and I've learned to park my car away from it so I don't get my feet wet when I exit the vehicle. That sort of insight surely qualifies me for a position as adviser to the Board of Neptune Developments or, to the great Sir Pat and his loud and proud collective of recently radicalised Flood Deniers.

We were lucky this time to have had no dead bodies floating around in Morrisons car park but next time could be a very different story. I just hope that those residents of Cloud Cuckoo Land who post so reassuringly here, will consider the futility of explaining away the bleeding obvious to those of us who are bleeding furious at their audacious resort to smoke and mirrors.
Some of the people posting on this blog seem to be living in cloud cuckoo land! New Brighton's new development was flooded this week! Fact! Already, an odd collective of Flood Deniers has been created and they seem determined to explain to the rest of us that black is really white, that bad town planning is really good town planning and that twenty years is really two hundred years in disguise. I'm 55 years old and in my lifetime, I have witnessed three similar flooding events in New Brighton and all three have affected the land developed recently by Neptune Developments. Why then are Neptune Developments and their supporters trying to tell us that this is, "a once in two hundred year event"? Do they think we're all stupid. A puddle develops in my driveway at home when it rains and I've learned to park my car away from it so I don't get my feet wet when I exit the vehicle. That sort of insight surely qualifies me for a position as adviser to the Board of Neptune Developments or, to the great Sir Pat and his loud and proud collective of recently radicalised Flood Deniers. We were lucky this time to have had no dead bodies floating around in Morrisons car park but next time could be a very different story. I just hope that those residents of Cloud Cuckoo Land who post so reassuringly here, will consider the futility of explaining away the bleeding obvious to those of us who are bleeding furious at their audacious resort to smoke and mirrors. Damp_Shopping

7:45pm Sat 7 Dec 13

pykey1939 says...

antisthenes wrote:
Moogos is 100% correct; I witnessed the storm driven demolition of the old New Brighton baths when the sea undermined the foundations causing the entire building to subside and collapse; the recent storm whilst strong is by no means as bad as it gets;another storm is inevitable its just a matter of time; and the next one may prove even more catastrophic; many who wrote about this risk at the time were cast as party poopers bent on obstructing progress; but Neptune and Council ignored the warnings and we now see the result.
Why oh why don't the planners do their homework what ruled was greedy morrisons and they will next time be swept away the tide will beat you
[quote][p][bold]antisthenes[/bold] wrote: Moogos is 100% correct; I witnessed the storm driven demolition of the old New Brighton baths when the sea undermined the foundations causing the entire building to subside and collapse; the recent storm whilst strong is by no means as bad as it gets;another storm is inevitable its just a matter of time; and the next one may prove even more catastrophic; many who wrote about this risk at the time were cast as party poopers bent on obstructing progress; but Neptune and Council ignored the warnings and we now see the result.[/p][/quote]Why oh why don't the planners do their homework what ruled was greedy morrisons and they will next time be swept away the tide will beat you pykey1939

7:47pm Sat 7 Dec 13

dave301bounty says...

I Was one of the people ,about who were apposed to the way this NEW building was to happen ,we gathered at town hall for the daily talk for and against ,for 6 days I think ,myself and others ,they all know ,including the late Dougy ,owner of Fort ,and we Did say ,,the drainage was a huge problem beside the building in that particular site,but we were Shouted down as being in another planet ,we gave a number of plans for drainage ,but NO ONE wanted to know ,how about that ,we said that one day there WILL be a storm ,but when ,no one knows ,it will happen ,no doubt about it, there were no casualties , but this proves that ,this council and the planners got it wrong , you just cannot build like this on reclaimed land ,Nature is very unpredictable and when the word went out 7 years ago that a new look for New Brighton was to happen ,there was a lot of scurrying for the quickest way ,without too much thought .I still have the papers that said the land was safe to build on and NO special drainage would be required as it was self drainage . Cant help but think ,who is in charge .
I Was one of the people ,about who were apposed to the way this NEW building was to happen ,we gathered at town hall for the daily talk for and against ,for 6 days I think ,myself and others ,they all know ,including the late Dougy ,owner of Fort ,and we Did say ,,the drainage was a huge problem beside the building in that particular site,but we were Shouted down as being in another planet ,we gave a number of plans for drainage ,but NO ONE wanted to know ,how about that ,we said that one day there WILL be a storm ,but when ,no one knows ,it will happen ,no doubt about it, there were no casualties , but this proves that ,this council and the planners got it wrong , you just cannot build like this on reclaimed land ,Nature is very unpredictable and when the word went out 7 years ago that a new look for New Brighton was to happen ,there was a lot of scurrying for the quickest way ,without too much thought .I still have the papers that said the land was safe to build on and NO special drainage would be required as it was self drainage . Cant help but think ,who is in charge . dave301bounty

9:59pm Sat 7 Dec 13

community1 says...

Well why you don’t admit you are opposed to this from day one and stop denying those of us who 100% support this great new development that has brought so much joy and local jobs in the region of 800 so far and has been so successful in such a short space of time. Do you think that it’s a price worth paying to let these local jobs go on the back of your theories? You seem to be part of those local inhabitants who have denied New Brighton revival for various reasons over 40 years on a combination of theories and agendas as we saw at the public enquiry 7 years ago when we nearly lost the chance to start on the long road to recovery.
Regards the Heritage Action Groups assertion that no other companies were allowed other than Neptune that’s absolute codswallop, 8 other developers expressed an interest after the council invited others to come forward and not one of them had the capacity or capability of a company like Neptune to take on a project of this magnitude.
I was down today and it’s great to see everyone pulling together in the clean up including local residents and it’s a testimony to the new found confidence in New Brighton that it has recovered so fast and that the very successful Marine Point complex is now open as we look to the future with more investment, jobs and development (the proposed Hovercraft service is the latest) instead of playing the same record over and over again in these columns of the doom and gloom merchants
Well why you don’t admit you are opposed to this from day one and stop denying those of us who 100% support this great new development that has brought so much joy and local jobs in the region of 800 so far and has been so successful in such a short space of time. Do you think that it’s a price worth paying to let these local jobs go on the back of your theories? You seem to be part of those local inhabitants who have denied New Brighton revival for various reasons over 40 years on a combination of theories and agendas as we saw at the public enquiry 7 years ago when we nearly lost the chance to start on the long road to recovery. Regards the Heritage Action Groups assertion that no other companies were allowed other than Neptune that’s absolute codswallop, 8 other developers expressed an interest after the council invited others to come forward and not one of them had the capacity or capability of a company like Neptune to take on a project of this magnitude. I was down today and it’s great to see everyone pulling together in the clean up including local residents and it’s a testimony to the new found confidence in New Brighton that it has recovered so fast and that the very successful Marine Point complex is now open as we look to the future with more investment, jobs and development (the proposed Hovercraft service is the latest) instead of playing the same record over and over again in these columns of the doom and gloom merchants community1

11:42pm Sat 7 Dec 13

Damp_Shopping says...

community1 wrote:
Well why you don’t admit you are opposed to this from day one and stop denying those of us who 100% support this great new development that has brought so much joy and local jobs in the region of 800 so far and has been so successful in such a short space of time. Do you think that it’s a price worth paying to let these local jobs go on the back of your theories? You seem to be part of those local inhabitants who have denied New Brighton revival for various reasons over 40 years on a combination of theories and agendas as we saw at the public enquiry 7 years ago when we nearly lost the chance to start on the long road to recovery.
Regards the Heritage Action Groups assertion that no other companies were allowed other than Neptune that’s absolute codswallop, 8 other developers expressed an interest after the council invited others to come forward and not one of them had the capacity or capability of a company like Neptune to take on a project of this magnitude.
I was down today and it’s great to see everyone pulling together in the clean up including local residents and it’s a testimony to the new found confidence in New Brighton that it has recovered so fast and that the very successful Marine Point complex is now open as we look to the future with more investment, jobs and development (the proposed Hovercraft service is the latest) instead of playing the same record over and over again in these columns of the doom and gloom merchants
Community1 - thanks for letting us know that it's all good news for New Brighton.

What planet did you say you were from?
[quote][p][bold]community1[/bold] wrote: Well why you don’t admit you are opposed to this from day one and stop denying those of us who 100% support this great new development that has brought so much joy and local jobs in the region of 800 so far and has been so successful in such a short space of time. Do you think that it’s a price worth paying to let these local jobs go on the back of your theories? You seem to be part of those local inhabitants who have denied New Brighton revival for various reasons over 40 years on a combination of theories and agendas as we saw at the public enquiry 7 years ago when we nearly lost the chance to start on the long road to recovery. Regards the Heritage Action Groups assertion that no other companies were allowed other than Neptune that’s absolute codswallop, 8 other developers expressed an interest after the council invited others to come forward and not one of them had the capacity or capability of a company like Neptune to take on a project of this magnitude. I was down today and it’s great to see everyone pulling together in the clean up including local residents and it’s a testimony to the new found confidence in New Brighton that it has recovered so fast and that the very successful Marine Point complex is now open as we look to the future with more investment, jobs and development (the proposed Hovercraft service is the latest) instead of playing the same record over and over again in these columns of the doom and gloom merchants[/p][/quote]Community1 - thanks for letting us know that it's all good news for New Brighton. What planet did you say you were from? Damp_Shopping

2:23am Sun 8 Dec 13

artemis81 says...

vision4wirral wrote:
artemis81 wrote:
That's a statement that NBAG have had prepared for years, so predictable. It was a freak set of circumstances, that's it. It'll be business as usual in a couple of days and you can crawl back under your stone.
The New Brighton Heritage Action Group’s only concern was to achieve the best and most imaginative possible means of revitalising the New Brighton. However, because of a prior agreement with Neptune Developments, competition was totally banned by the Council and residents were forced to accept the building of a gigantic supermarket and retail park on the Resort’s prime seafront or nothing! In a cesspool of vested interests, personal and political ambitions, back-bighting, bullying, lies and gratuitous insults, the Action Group was shouted down, despite the supporting public petition of over 22,000 signatories, as were the repeated warnings about the recklessness of developing on such highly vulnerable, reclaimed sites, as the Marine Lake and the former Lido. The real tragedy is that we will never know what other, potentially far better, proposals for the regeneration of New Brighton could have been achieved by other developers, if fair and open competition had not been disallowed by the Council.
Listen, picking a fight with NBHAG is like picking a fight with the Vikings... they were tough opponents once, but frankly, they're long gone. You make a lot of accusations there, it'd be great if you could back them up with some firm evidence. A fact, however, is that New Brighton is properly back on the map and is a source of pride for many many people once again, I'm sorry if that's so hard to take. Backing the wrong horse is ****, isn't it?
[quote][p][bold]vision4wirral[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]artemis81[/bold] wrote: That's a statement that NBAG have had prepared for years, so predictable. It was a freak set of circumstances, that's it. It'll be business as usual in a couple of days and you can crawl back under your stone.[/p][/quote]The New Brighton Heritage Action Group’s only concern was to achieve the best and most imaginative possible means of revitalising the New Brighton. However, because of a prior agreement with Neptune Developments, competition was totally banned by the Council and residents were forced to accept the building of a gigantic supermarket and retail park on the Resort’s prime seafront or nothing! In a cesspool of vested interests, personal and political ambitions, back-bighting, bullying, lies and gratuitous insults, the Action Group was shouted down, despite the supporting public petition of over 22,000 signatories, as were the repeated warnings about the recklessness of developing on such highly vulnerable, reclaimed sites, as the Marine Lake and the former Lido. The real tragedy is that we will never know what other, potentially far better, proposals for the regeneration of New Brighton could have been achieved by other developers, if fair and open competition had not been disallowed by the Council.[/p][/quote]Listen, picking a fight with NBHAG is like picking a fight with the Vikings... they were tough opponents once, but frankly, they're long gone. You make a lot of accusations there, it'd be great if you could back them up with some firm evidence. A fact, however, is that New Brighton is properly back on the map and is a source of pride for many many people once again, I'm sorry if that's so hard to take. Backing the wrong horse is ****, isn't it? artemis81

9:44am Sun 8 Dec 13

Damp_Shopping says...

Look at the pictures Artamist81!

Take a look at the floating cars, the frightened shoppers and the sodden mess that now marks the spot of Neptune's shiny new development.

And then tell us again (in some detail) why this disturbing spectacle is "a source of pride for many people". It's a perverse sort of pride in my opinion and it makes the rest of wonder who it was that bought your misguided and determined loyalty.
Look at the pictures Artamist81! Take a look at the floating cars, the frightened shoppers and the sodden mess that now marks the spot of Neptune's shiny new development. And then tell us again (in some detail) why this disturbing spectacle is "a source of pride for many people". It's a perverse sort of pride in my opinion and it makes the rest of wonder who it was that bought your misguided and determined loyalty. Damp_Shopping

11:19am Sun 8 Dec 13

M_Burns says...

Storm damage happens, the important thing is no one lost their lives here. Marine Point will recover and by the sounds of it do so very quickly, which is fantastic news for the businesses there as well as for New Brighton itself.
Storm damage happens, the important thing is no one lost their lives here. Marine Point will recover and by the sounds of it do so very quickly, which is fantastic news for the businesses there as well as for New Brighton itself. M_Burns

11:31am Sun 8 Dec 13

community1 says...

Damp shopping, the facts are its nearly all open and up and running in record time and people are starting to flock back, sorry to dissapoint you and NBHAG who are all fixated with the rear view mirror and have the vision of a bat.
To say people were bought is a bit OTT to say the least, what has bought their loyality is the great new services, attractions (with more to come as reported in the press with the new hovercraft service) record numbers now using it, did you not go down there last summer! If you and your lot had your way it would still be holes in the ground.
The regeneration of NB will continue at a pace so stop fighting yesterdays battles and move on
Damp shopping, the facts are its nearly all open and up and running in record time and people are starting to flock back, sorry to dissapoint you and NBHAG who are all fixated with the rear view mirror and have the vision of a bat. To say people were bought is a bit OTT to say the least, what has bought their loyality is the great new services, attractions (with more to come as reported in the press with the new hovercraft service) record numbers now using it, did you not go down there last summer! If you and your lot had your way it would still be holes in the ground. The regeneration of NB will continue at a pace so stop fighting yesterdays battles and move on community1

1:28pm Sun 8 Dec 13

Damp_Shopping says...

I went down there myself this morning and you're right, it is open. I was very disturbed though to find a life jacket in every trolley and to see the till girls all wearing water wings.

Is this what we really want for New Brighton?
I went down there myself this morning and you're right, it is open. I was very disturbed though to find a life jacket in every trolley and to see the till girls all wearing water wings. Is this what we really want for New Brighton? Damp_Shopping

3:02pm Sun 8 Dec 13

community1 says...

As usual just like the NBHAG nothing substantial to say?
As usual just like the NBHAG nothing substantial to say? community1

3:46pm Sun 8 Dec 13

Heycock says...

Damp_Shopping wrote:
I went down there myself this morning and you're right, it is open. I was very disturbed though to find a life jacket in every trolley and to see the till girls all wearing water wings.

Is this what we really want for New Brighton?
Obviously not but you think the New Brighton of 10 years ago, which was in terminal decline, was better?
Marine Point represents progress. It may not be a perfect location but it's a million times better than the derelict wasteland that was there before. There are many locations around the world which are in far worse positions but which thrive because the people accept the risk and get on with it. The people living by and working in Marine Point are showing that same resilience today. Respect!
[quote][p][bold]Damp_Shopping[/bold] wrote: I went down there myself this morning and you're right, it is open. I was very disturbed though to find a life jacket in every trolley and to see the till girls all wearing water wings. Is this what we really want for New Brighton?[/p][/quote]Obviously not but you think the New Brighton of 10 years ago, which was in terminal decline, was better? Marine Point represents progress. It may not be a perfect location but it's a million times better than the derelict wasteland that was there before. There are many locations around the world which are in far worse positions but which thrive because the people accept the risk and get on with it. The people living by and working in Marine Point are showing that same resilience today. Respect! Heycock

4:43pm Sun 8 Dec 13

keef666 says...

New Brighton Development! a supermarket, a cinema, a few shops and the rest over priced cafes.
New Brighton Development! a supermarket, a cinema, a few shops and the rest over priced cafes. keef666

5:33pm Sun 8 Dec 13

Damp_Shopping says...

The late, great Leslie Parker-Davies was a true visionary and he predicted the sorry mess New Brighton now finds itself in.

A true champion of the people, Leslie led the opposition to Neptune's scheme and he galvanised the local community into a cohesive and formidable force which firmly came down against building on the old swimming bath site.

He forced a Public Inquiry to investigate the proposals but even that, turned it's head on the credible evidence he submitted which foretold of Thursday's events and predicted the soggy fiasco which now stands as testament to his farsightedness.

Posters on here who rejoice in the spectacle of business owners mopping up their premises and hail the sight as an example of, "pulling together", should consider their own sanity in my opinion.

Leslie Parker-Davies deserves to have a statue erected in his memory to remind the Flood Deniers that Thursday's disaster was predictable, inevitable and will be a recurring feature of Marine Point for many years to come.
The late, great Leslie Parker-Davies was a true visionary and he predicted the sorry mess New Brighton now finds itself in. A true champion of the people, Leslie led the opposition to Neptune's scheme and he galvanised the local community into a cohesive and formidable force which firmly came down against building on the old swimming bath site. He forced a Public Inquiry to investigate the proposals but even that, turned it's head on the credible evidence he submitted which foretold of Thursday's events and predicted the soggy fiasco which now stands as testament to his farsightedness. Posters on here who rejoice in the spectacle of business owners mopping up their premises and hail the sight as an example of, "pulling together", should consider their own sanity in my opinion. Leslie Parker-Davies deserves to have a statue erected in his memory to remind the Flood Deniers that Thursday's disaster was predictable, inevitable and will be a recurring feature of Marine Point for many years to come. Damp_Shopping

6:08pm Sun 8 Dec 13

vision4wirral says...

Positive thinker!
Yea, well this “PLONKER” helped to save the prom and the Marine Lake from obliteration, while your shower of PLONKERS mindlessly supported the scheme. What have you PLONKERS achieved except a flooded development that will flood time and time again?
Positive thinker! Yea, well this “PLONKER” helped to save the prom and the Marine Lake from obliteration, while your shower of PLONKERS mindlessly supported the scheme. What have you PLONKERS achieved except a flooded development that will flood time and time again? vision4wirral

6:31pm Sun 8 Dec 13

community1 says...

WOW - What a load of moaners which frankly tells us why NB was in terminal decline for 40 years.
Leslie came on board in the end as did the rest of the sensible majority unlike the militant wing of the NBHAG.
As regards Keefe666 you have conveniently missed out a bit havent you?, the Mini Golf, Casino & Live Shows, the fabulous restuarants, Bubbles World of Play, the lovely Marinio Lounge, Floral Pavilon Theatre & Conference Centre (all part of the fantastic Neptune developments) and not forgetting our traditional features such as the miles of golden beach, Bowling Alley, Laser Quest, Palace Amusements, Fort Perch Rock.
We also have the Council spending over a million improving the promenade in January which will open up Victoria Road to traffic and of course the Hovercraft service recently reported in the press.
If you take a look at the figures you will be surprised how many used it in the summer when it was jam packed and of course 800 local jobs with more to come when the other planned developments open up in Marine Point.
WOW - What a load of moaners which frankly tells us why NB was in terminal decline for 40 years. Leslie came on board in the end as did the rest of the sensible majority unlike the militant wing of the NBHAG. As regards Keefe666 you have conveniently missed out a bit havent you?, the Mini Golf, Casino & Live Shows, the fabulous restuarants, Bubbles World of Play, the lovely Marinio Lounge, Floral Pavilon Theatre & Conference Centre (all part of the fantastic Neptune developments) and not forgetting our traditional features such as the miles of golden beach, Bowling Alley, Laser Quest, Palace Amusements, Fort Perch Rock. We also have the Council spending over a million improving the promenade in January which will open up Victoria Road to traffic and of course the Hovercraft service recently reported in the press. If you take a look at the figures you will be surprised how many used it in the summer when it was jam packed and of course 800 local jobs with more to come when the other planned developments open up in Marine Point. community1

8:35pm Sun 8 Dec 13

dave301bounty says...

All this talk on the weather and its backlash ,well when this build was put out to tender ,a lot of would be people /builders were NOT allowed ,it was a Supermarket or nothing ,shame only a handful of people can see ,this is a real bad case of ,planners out of school and design something ,they had no idea of what would / could / did happen ,o k new brighton needed a push to get up graded ,but the right way ,if the truth ever comes out who denied that things should be built a very different way ,were are the planners to see the damage that their miss managed plot has come to ,keith knows ,he was told to shut up as I was ,and we have now been proved to have been in the right ,Wirral council and Neptune plus the planners should all be put to face the questions ,,and there are a lot ,,to answer .
All this talk on the weather and its backlash ,well when this build was put out to tender ,a lot of would be people /builders were NOT allowed ,it was a Supermarket or nothing ,shame only a handful of people can see ,this is a real bad case of ,planners out of school and design something ,they had no idea of what would / could / did happen ,o k new brighton needed a push to get up graded ,but the right way ,if the truth ever comes out who denied that things should be built a very different way ,were are the planners to see the damage that their miss managed plot has come to ,keith knows ,he was told to shut up as I was ,and we have now been proved to have been in the right ,Wirral council and Neptune plus the planners should all be put to face the questions ,,and there are a lot ,,to answer . dave301bounty

8:46pm Sun 8 Dec 13

Damp_Shopping says...

New Brighton was in decline for 40 years because Victorian resort towns lost out to more sophisticated attractions which were opening all over the country.

The promenade at New Brighton became a once glamorous old lady who's well worn fancy cloths and makeup, purified on her decomposing corpse and made a very sorry vista to all those who had the misfortune to visit her. My husbands late mother went the same way.

The old lady of New Brighton may have been propped up by a few tin sheds and some more makeup but she remains incontinent and will leak every now and again on those who are foolish enough to get too close.

New Brighton, like Dr Who, needed a rebirth in order to flourish in the future. Unfortunately, the old lady has been resuscitated unnecessarily and all the sticking plasters and incontinence pads applied, are failing to do their job - she's still damp and she's still very poorly indeed.
New Brighton was in decline for 40 years because Victorian resort towns lost out to more sophisticated attractions which were opening all over the country. The promenade at New Brighton became a once glamorous old lady who's well worn fancy cloths and makeup, purified on her decomposing corpse and made a very sorry vista to all those who had the misfortune to visit her. My husbands late mother went the same way. The old lady of New Brighton may have been propped up by a few tin sheds and some more makeup but she remains incontinent and will leak every now and again on those who are foolish enough to get too close. New Brighton, like Dr Who, needed a rebirth in order to flourish in the future. Unfortunately, the old lady has been resuscitated unnecessarily and all the sticking plasters and incontinence pads applied, are failing to do their job - she's still damp and she's still very poorly indeed. Damp_Shopping

8:48pm Sun 8 Dec 13

Heycock says...

So far the naysayers have said nothing constructive. All they've done is criticize Neptune and ridicule those who see the positives in redeveloping an eyesore. No-one here thinks the redevelopment scheme was without it's flaws but it would be more constructive to the argument if one of the jeremiahs suggested a practical alternative and a list of financial backers with real clout and money in the bank. Neptune stuck to their part of the bargain as did the businesses who've invested, the people employed there, and the vast majority of locals who are now proud to say they live in New Brighton. The only downside i've seen so far was the closure of the Brooklyn, but to be fair, their steaks WERE crap.
So far the naysayers have said nothing constructive. All they've done is criticize Neptune and ridicule those who see the positives in redeveloping an eyesore. No-one here thinks the redevelopment scheme was without it's flaws but it would be more constructive to the argument if one of the jeremiahs suggested a practical alternative and a list of financial backers with real clout and money in the bank. Neptune stuck to their part of the bargain as did the businesses who've invested, the people employed there, and the vast majority of locals who are now proud to say they live in New Brighton. The only downside i've seen so far was the closure of the Brooklyn, but to be fair, their steaks WERE crap. Heycock

10:25pm Sun 8 Dec 13

Mzirisana says...

I was one of the people who opposed the present development. I had three basic reasons:
I thought that new Brighton needed something better than the developers proposed. Seasides are special places. I just felt that such a magnificent location deserved more than the tired thinking that would give us yet another supermarket, another homebase - there are already 20 such stores in the region - another Wetherspoons and so on.
I felt also that all the businesses were not really regenerative in the true sense. Okay they provided low paid employment, but these businesses are nationals, multinationals of the type found just anywhere . All the profits are siphoned off.. What about local businesses?
Well I admit I never ever thought such a development could ever have had wide appeal. Clearly I was wrong.
But there was a third reason for my opposition. I have lived in New Brighton for 40 years. I lost all of my garden,, walls, paths gate the lot to the storm in 1990. So, I feared that another big one would be disastrous for the development. I felt that putting a retail development there was an act of real recklessness. Earlier posters are right. This latest stormwas not on the huge scale. this time round, my garden is virtually unscathed. The sea level at high tide this time was lower than 1990 by over a metre. If last Thursday can cause that much flooding and disruption at Marine Point, then it is certain that there is much worse in store.. I may have underestimated how popular supermarkets by the sea are round here. But in my third objection to this development, I know I am right,
I was one of the people who opposed the present development. I had three basic reasons: I thought that new Brighton needed something better than the developers proposed. Seasides are special places. I just felt that such a magnificent location deserved more than the tired thinking that would give us yet another supermarket, another homebase - there are already 20 such stores in the region - another Wetherspoons and so on. I felt also that all the businesses were not really regenerative in the true sense. Okay they provided low paid employment, but these businesses are nationals, multinationals of the type found just anywhere . All the profits are siphoned off.. What about local businesses? Well I admit I never ever thought such a development could ever have had wide appeal. Clearly I was wrong. But there was a third reason for my opposition. I have lived in New Brighton for 40 years. I lost all of my garden,, walls, paths gate the lot to the storm in 1990. So, I feared that another big one would be disastrous for the development. I felt that putting a retail development there was an act of real recklessness. Earlier posters are right. This latest stormwas not on the huge scale. this time round, my garden is virtually unscathed. The sea level at high tide this time was lower than 1990 by over a metre. If last Thursday can cause that much flooding and disruption at Marine Point, then it is certain that there is much worse in store.. I may have underestimated how popular supermarkets by the sea are round here. But in my third objection to this development, I know I am right, Mzirisana

9:51am Mon 9 Dec 13

whatdotheythinkweare says...

NB did need development, but I note the following:
1) why was neptune the developer against any potential competition? All competition barred??? Surely this is unorthodox! What happened to the transparency of tenders?
.
2) why choose marine point for development, an area which has had 3 major floodings in my lifetime (I'm in my 40s) resulting in serious structural damage? Planners should have refused this project in favour for alternative site.
.
3) why choose such a mundane retailer as a supermarket? Not very resort-like feature! These huge buildings with no, or limited, windows trap folk with no knowledge of the dangers developing outside, knowledge of the dangers would allow people to take action! This is not possible in buildings like morrisons or casino!
.
4) the dips flooded completely! correct me if I'm wrong as I cant find online any article to substatiate this, but arent the dips a form of flood defense? Without those dips the residential properties behind would surely have been affected by flooding? And the council want to fill them in for parking... Are they mad?
.
5) marine point and the rest of the promenade, as with other coastal resorts around the UK, belong to the sea and should not be built on in this manner! The sea will reclaim this land over time!
.
6) you say the retailers and insurance companies are aware of the risks (not sure my car insurance was aware of the risk per se), but that does not permit putting the public or employees at risk! who would be responsible if death occurred? This could have easily been a tragedy.
.
Basically, to build such a commercial site on the edge of Mother Nature's PMS, as seen numerous times, is ludicrous and planners and supporting councillors should be removed from their posts for approving such a hazardous project!
NB did need development, but I note the following: 1) why was neptune the developer against any potential competition? All competition barred??? Surely this is unorthodox! What happened to the transparency of tenders? . 2) why choose marine point for development, an area which has had 3 major floodings in my lifetime (I'm in my 40s) resulting in serious structural damage? Planners should have refused this project in favour for alternative site. . 3) why choose such a mundane retailer as a supermarket? Not very resort-like feature! These huge buildings with no, or limited, windows trap folk with no knowledge of the dangers developing outside, knowledge of the dangers would allow people to take action! This is not possible in buildings like morrisons or casino! . 4) the dips flooded completely! correct me if I'm wrong as I cant find online any article to substatiate this, but arent the dips a form of flood defense? Without those dips the residential properties behind would surely have been affected by flooding? And the council want to fill them in for parking... Are they mad? . 5) marine point and the rest of the promenade, as with other coastal resorts around the UK, belong to the sea and should not be built on in this manner! The sea will reclaim this land over time! . 6) you say the retailers and insurance companies are aware of the risks (not sure my car insurance was aware of the risk per se), but that does not permit putting the public or employees at risk! who would be responsible if death occurred? This could have easily been a tragedy. . Basically, to build such a commercial site on the edge of Mother Nature's PMS, as seen numerous times, is ludicrous and planners and supporting councillors should be removed from their posts for approving such a hazardous project! whatdotheythinkweare

11:26am Mon 9 Dec 13

fenix uk says...

Damp_Shopping wrote:
Some of the people posting on this blog seem to be living in cloud cuckoo land! New Brighton's new development was flooded this week! Fact!

Already, an odd collective of Flood Deniers has been created and they seem determined to explain to the rest of us that black is really white, that bad town planning is really good town planning and that twenty years is really two hundred years in disguise.

I'm 55 years old and in my lifetime, I have witnessed three similar flooding events in New Brighton and all three have affected the land developed recently by Neptune Developments. Why then are Neptune Developments and their supporters trying to tell us that this is, &quot;a once in two hundred year event"? Do they think we're all stupid.

A puddle develops in my driveway at home when it rains and I've learned to park my car away from it so I don't get my feet wet when I exit the vehicle. That sort of insight surely qualifies me for a position as adviser to the Board of Neptune Developments or, to the great Sir Pat and his loud and proud collective of recently radicalised Flood Deniers.

We were lucky this time to have had no dead bodies floating around in Morrisons car park but next time could be a very different story. I just hope that those residents of Cloud Cuckoo Land who post so reassuringly here, will consider the futility of explaining away the bleeding obvious to those of us who are bleeding furious at their audacious resort to smoke and mirrors.
So the development was flooded this week. It is on the coast. Plenty of properties were flooded too. Have you seen the videos of West Kirby and Hoylake ? This was a serious storm - and as the neighsayers have pointed out - almost as bad as 1990 - which was 22 years ago.

New Brighton may be damp - but West Kirby and Hoylake are missing benches, walls, shelters, railings and pavements. Oh and a Volvo Estate too....

So what would you do - not build anything and avoid these 20 plus year events - just in case ? Shall we just have it left as wasteland ? Because I don't see that attracting people to New Brighton.

I've lived in Wallasey and the Wirral for 45 years now - I've never been down to New Brighton as much as I have since Marine Point opened.
Its a great attraction to visitors for miles around.

We can clearly take some learnings from the storm - close the Prom and facilities next time a storm surge is forecast. Morrisons might need to do more to protect their shops, sandbags should be stockpiled just in case - but we shouldn't let these extremely rare events put us off developing.
[quote][p][bold]Damp_Shopping[/bold] wrote: Some of the people posting on this blog seem to be living in cloud cuckoo land! New Brighton's new development was flooded this week! Fact! Already, an odd collective of Flood Deniers has been created and they seem determined to explain to the rest of us that black is really white, that bad town planning is really good town planning and that twenty years is really two hundred years in disguise. I'm 55 years old and in my lifetime, I have witnessed three similar flooding events in New Brighton and all three have affected the land developed recently by Neptune Developments. Why then are Neptune Developments and their supporters trying to tell us that this is, "a once in two hundred year event"? Do they think we're all stupid. A puddle develops in my driveway at home when it rains and I've learned to park my car away from it so I don't get my feet wet when I exit the vehicle. That sort of insight surely qualifies me for a position as adviser to the Board of Neptune Developments or, to the great Sir Pat and his loud and proud collective of recently radicalised Flood Deniers. We were lucky this time to have had no dead bodies floating around in Morrisons car park but next time could be a very different story. I just hope that those residents of Cloud Cuckoo Land who post so reassuringly here, will consider the futility of explaining away the bleeding obvious to those of us who are bleeding furious at their audacious resort to smoke and mirrors.[/p][/quote]So the development was flooded this week. It is on the coast. Plenty of properties were flooded too. Have you seen the videos of West Kirby and Hoylake ? This was a serious storm - and as the neighsayers have pointed out - almost as bad as 1990 - which was 22 years ago. New Brighton may be damp - but West Kirby and Hoylake are missing benches, walls, shelters, railings and pavements. Oh and a Volvo Estate too.... So what would you do - not build anything and avoid these 20 plus year events - just in case ? Shall we just have it left as wasteland ? Because I don't see that attracting people to New Brighton. I've lived in Wallasey and the Wirral for 45 years now - I've never been down to New Brighton as much as I have since Marine Point opened. Its a great attraction to visitors for miles around. We can clearly take some learnings from the storm - close the Prom and facilities next time a storm surge is forecast. Morrisons might need to do more to protect their shops, sandbags should be stockpiled just in case - but we shouldn't let these extremely rare events put us off developing. fenix uk

4:29pm Mon 9 Dec 13

rob1878 says...

I take it NBAG have stuck by their guns and refuse to use Marine Point because at any moment it could wash into the sea......

No?? though not, bunch of hypocrites....
I take it NBAG have stuck by their guns and refuse to use Marine Point because at any moment it could wash into the sea...... No?? though not, bunch of hypocrites.... rob1878

6:24pm Mon 9 Dec 13

Damp_Shopping says...

I run a successful business in Wallasey myself and understand only too well the perils of having unexpected events disrupt my day-to-day activities. If those events cost me money as well, they have the potential to destroy my business.

What happened in New Brighton last Thursday was an avoidable disaster and it came as a surprise to every business owner at Marine Point. They (like the residents of New Brighton) were reassured by Neptune Developments and affiliated, "community groups", that measures had been taken to eliminate the possibility of flooding following a high tide/ storm surge scenario. Those businesses were lied to and those lies have cost them dearly.

It's quite amusing to read the home-spun "Dunkirk spirit" attitude from those who know nothing of how business really works and understand even less about hard, commercial realities. If my business had been induced to move to Marine Point, on a promise that sea defenses were improved and adequate, I'd be talking to my lawyers right now.

It's all well and good posting cliché and Polly Anna'esque "community group", inspired statements on here but those of us in the real world understand a bigger way and can grasp the real consequences of last Thursday's events and those consequences have the potential to be dire.
I run a successful business in Wallasey myself and understand only too well the perils of having unexpected events disrupt my day-to-day activities. If those events cost me money as well, they have the potential to destroy my business. What happened in New Brighton last Thursday was an avoidable disaster and it came as a surprise to every business owner at Marine Point. They (like the residents of New Brighton) were reassured by Neptune Developments and affiliated, "community groups", that measures had been taken to eliminate the possibility of flooding following a high tide/ storm surge scenario. Those businesses were lied to and those lies have cost them dearly. It's quite amusing to read the home-spun "Dunkirk spirit" attitude from those who know nothing of how business really works and understand even less about hard, commercial realities. If my business had been induced to move to Marine Point, on a promise that sea defenses were improved and adequate, I'd be talking to my lawyers right now. It's all well and good posting cliché and Polly Anna'esque "community group", inspired statements on here but those of us in the real world understand a bigger way and can grasp the real consequences of last Thursday's events and those consequences have the potential to be dire. Damp_Shopping

8:37pm Mon 9 Dec 13

fenix uk says...

Damp_Shopping wrote:
I run a successful business in Wallasey myself and understand only too well the perils of having unexpected events disrupt my day-to-day activities. If those events cost me money as well, they have the potential to destroy my business.

What happened in New Brighton last Thursday was an avoidable disaster and it came as a surprise to every business owner at Marine Point. They (like the residents of New Brighton) were reassured by Neptune Developments and affiliated, &quot;community groups", that measures had been taken to eliminate the possibility of flooding following a high tide/ storm surge scenario. Those businesses were lied to and those lies have cost them dearly.

It's quite amusing to read the home-spun "Dunkirk spirit" attitude from those who know nothing of how business really works and understand even less about hard, commercial realities. If my business had been induced to move to Marine Point, on a promise that sea defenses were improved and adequate, I'd be talking to my lawyers right now.

It's all well and good posting cliché and Polly Anna'esque "community group", inspired statements on here but those of us in the real world understand a bigger way and can grasp the real consequences of last Thursday's events and those consequences have the potential to be dire.
Any business has to be robust enough to survive a few knocks.
Don't forget winter is around the corner and a few days of snow can keep customers away.

Sure the Light, Morrisons, the casino etc could have been built elsewhere - but they weren't. The prom is a prime location attracting 1000s of people.

I'd rather have a business there with good footfall and run the risk of a 20 odd year storm rather than being out in the sticks with no people coming past.
[quote][p][bold]Damp_Shopping[/bold] wrote: I run a successful business in Wallasey myself and understand only too well the perils of having unexpected events disrupt my day-to-day activities. If those events cost me money as well, they have the potential to destroy my business. What happened in New Brighton last Thursday was an avoidable disaster and it came as a surprise to every business owner at Marine Point. They (like the residents of New Brighton) were reassured by Neptune Developments and affiliated, "community groups", that measures had been taken to eliminate the possibility of flooding following a high tide/ storm surge scenario. Those businesses were lied to and those lies have cost them dearly. It's quite amusing to read the home-spun "Dunkirk spirit" attitude from those who know nothing of how business really works and understand even less about hard, commercial realities. If my business had been induced to move to Marine Point, on a promise that sea defenses were improved and adequate, I'd be talking to my lawyers right now. It's all well and good posting cliché and Polly Anna'esque "community group", inspired statements on here but those of us in the real world understand a bigger way and can grasp the real consequences of last Thursday's events and those consequences have the potential to be dire.[/p][/quote]Any business has to be robust enough to survive a few knocks. Don't forget winter is around the corner and a few days of snow can keep customers away. Sure the Light, Morrisons, the casino etc could have been built elsewhere - but they weren't. The prom is a prime location attracting 1000s of people. I'd rather have a business there with good footfall and run the risk of a 20 odd year storm rather than being out in the sticks with no people coming past. fenix uk

10:33pm Mon 9 Dec 13

Damp_Shopping says...

If you think anywhere other than Marine Point is, "out in the sticks", you haven't traveled very widely have you? Try staying on the train past Leasowe Road and you'll discover a whole load of high-footfall shopping facilities at Birkenhead, Liverpool and at Chester. They don't have to factor-in regular flood damage in their financial projections. It's just not an issue for them.

How can Marine Point be sustainable if insurance premiums reflect the risk involved in doing business there? The risk assessment relies on fact and doesn't take into account the sentiment of homely, local types who dream of New Brighton's return to Resort status and will agree to anything in order to see the erection of buildings.

I'm afraid to say that Neptune, the Great God of the Sea is an impostor! It's actually King Canute in a very clever disguise.
If you think anywhere other than Marine Point is, "out in the sticks", you haven't traveled very widely have you? Try staying on the train past Leasowe Road and you'll discover a whole load of high-footfall shopping facilities at Birkenhead, Liverpool and at Chester. They don't have to factor-in regular flood damage in their financial projections. It's just not an issue for them. How can Marine Point be sustainable if insurance premiums reflect the risk involved in doing business there? The risk assessment relies on fact and doesn't take into account the sentiment of homely, local types who dream of New Brighton's return to Resort status and will agree to anything in order to see the erection of buildings. I'm afraid to say that Neptune, the Great God of the Sea is an impostor! It's actually King Canute in a very clever disguise. Damp_Shopping

11:33pm Mon 9 Dec 13

community1 says...

Have you asked those questions to Morrissons and the other hard headed businesses reported in the Echo tonight (online) in tomorrows. Who are saying the exact opposite of you. I would think if they had your obvious and misguided concerns they would not have praised the success of their buinesses in Marine Point in the article, or do you think they are all wrong as well?
If you do; all I can say is their are obviously other reasons why you pass your comments off as some concerned businessperson?
Maybe affilated to the New Brighton Heritage Action Group and their dwindling band of supporters?
Have you asked those questions to Morrissons and the other hard headed businesses reported in the Echo tonight (online) in tomorrows. Who are saying the exact opposite of you. I would think if they had your obvious and misguided concerns they would not have praised the success of their buinesses in Marine Point in the article, or do you think they are all wrong as well? If you do; all I can say is their are obviously other reasons why you pass your comments off as some concerned businessperson? Maybe affilated to the New Brighton Heritage Action Group and their dwindling band of supporters? community1

8:09am Tue 10 Dec 13

Damp_Shopping says...

The same newspaper also tells me that Father Christmas will be appearing in Bold Street on Thursday, along with his reindeer. I'm wise enough to know that Father Christmas doesn't really exist but understand the marketing ploy behind the announcement. I imagine though, that Community1 will be in Bold Street on Thursday along with some home baked mince pies for him and some carrots and associated vegetables for the reindeer.

It must be nice to be so gullible and innocent and I sometimes regret that I (like most of us) actually live in the real world.
The same newspaper also tells me that Father Christmas will be appearing in Bold Street on Thursday, along with his reindeer. I'm wise enough to know that Father Christmas doesn't really exist but understand the marketing ploy behind the announcement. I imagine though, that Community1 will be in Bold Street on Thursday along with some home baked mince pies for him and some carrots and associated vegetables for the reindeer. It must be nice to be so gullible and innocent and I sometimes regret that I (like most of us) actually live in the real world. Damp_Shopping

8:21am Tue 10 Dec 13

rob1878 says...

Damp_Shopping wrote:
The same newspaper also tells me that Father Christmas will be appearing in Bold Street on Thursday, along with his reindeer. I'm wise enough to know that Father Christmas doesn't really exist but understand the marketing ploy behind the announcement. I imagine though, that Community1 will be in Bold Street on Thursday along with some home baked mince pies for him and some carrots and associated vegetables for the reindeer. It must be nice to be so gullible and innocent and I sometimes regret that I (like most of us) actually live in the real world.
Father Christmas doesnt really exist?????

What a way to tell the world! Im devasted, totally at a loss, distraught even,

Maybe some retail therapy would alleviate my pain.

As a resident of New Brighton thank god (he does exist though doesnt he?) for Marine Point, a wonderful shopping/leisure experience on my doorstep ;)
[quote][p][bold]Damp_Shopping[/bold] wrote: The same newspaper also tells me that Father Christmas will be appearing in Bold Street on Thursday, along with his reindeer. I'm wise enough to know that Father Christmas doesn't really exist but understand the marketing ploy behind the announcement. I imagine though, that Community1 will be in Bold Street on Thursday along with some home baked mince pies for him and some carrots and associated vegetables for the reindeer. It must be nice to be so gullible and innocent and I sometimes regret that I (like most of us) actually live in the real world.[/p][/quote]Father Christmas doesnt really exist????? What a way to tell the world! Im devasted, totally at a loss, distraught even, Maybe some retail therapy would alleviate my pain. As a resident of New Brighton thank god (he does exist though doesnt he?) for Marine Point, a wonderful shopping/leisure experience on my doorstep ;) rob1878

8:34am Tue 10 Dec 13

Damp_Shopping says...

If Marine Point is on your doorstep, you better ask Father Christmas for some sand bags and a dinghy.

He ran out of snorkels last week following a letter from King Canute.
If Marine Point is on your doorstep, you better ask Father Christmas for some sand bags and a dinghy. He ran out of snorkels last week following a letter from King Canute. Damp_Shopping

10:42am Tue 10 Dec 13

Robrocket says...

We have just moved to the area and the Marine Point and the development that has taken place over the last few years certainly helped in picking the location. The place is on the up. Remember plenty of places get hit by storms all the time. That doesn't mean you should develop there and leave it a waste land. Isn't San Francisco build on a tectonic fault line, the canary islands on volcanos, Holland 60% below sea level and the Maldives can be wipped out at any stage? Progress and development still continues in many areas, its usually about managing risk and be ready if things do go wrong.
We have just moved to the area and the Marine Point and the development that has taken place over the last few years certainly helped in picking the location. The place is on the up. Remember plenty of places get hit by storms all the time. That doesn't mean you should develop there and leave it a waste land. Isn't San Francisco build on a tectonic fault line, the canary islands on volcanos, Holland 60% below sea level and the Maldives can be wipped out at any stage? Progress and development still continues in many areas, its usually about managing risk and be ready if things do go wrong. Robrocket

11:12am Tue 10 Dec 13

rob1878 says...

Damp_Shopping wrote:
If Marine Point is on your doorstep, you better ask Father Christmas for some sand bags and a dinghy. He ran out of snorkels last week following a letter from King Canute.
I would do but some mean person told me he didnt exist.......
[quote][p][bold]Damp_Shopping[/bold] wrote: If Marine Point is on your doorstep, you better ask Father Christmas for some sand bags and a dinghy. He ran out of snorkels last week following a letter from King Canute.[/p][/quote]I would do but some mean person told me he didnt exist....... rob1878

12:28pm Tue 10 Dec 13

fenix uk says...

Damp_Shopping wrote:
If you think anywhere other than Marine Point is, &quot;out in the sticks", you haven't traveled very widely have you? Try staying on the train past Leasowe Road and you'll discover a whole load of high-footfall shopping facilities at Birkenhead, Liverpool and at Chester. They don't have to factor-in regular flood damage in their financial projections. It's just not an issue for them.

How can Marine Point be sustainable if insurance premiums reflect the risk involved in doing business there? The risk assessment relies on fact and doesn't take into account the sentiment of homely, local types who dream of New Brighton's return to Resort status and will agree to anything in order to see the erection of buildings.

I'm afraid to say that Neptune, the Great God of the Sea is an impostor! It's actually King Canute in a very clever disguise.
I think Morrisons and co did their research better than you.

They wouldn't have built if it wasn't a viable location. New Brighton was clearly more attractive than other available sites. You can't just plonk a supermarket down anywhere. New Brighton was crying out for one.

Good job you weren't around in the Victorian age - no piers would have been built.

Clearly you have a vested interest in running down Marine Point - your username even points to it.

My advice is don't bother using Marine Point - it clearly irritates you. Then there's no need for you to whine on incessantly about nature. The businesses there will survive even if they do get battered from time to time.
[quote][p][bold]Damp_Shopping[/bold] wrote: If you think anywhere other than Marine Point is, "out in the sticks", you haven't traveled very widely have you? Try staying on the train past Leasowe Road and you'll discover a whole load of high-footfall shopping facilities at Birkenhead, Liverpool and at Chester. They don't have to factor-in regular flood damage in their financial projections. It's just not an issue for them. How can Marine Point be sustainable if insurance premiums reflect the risk involved in doing business there? The risk assessment relies on fact and doesn't take into account the sentiment of homely, local types who dream of New Brighton's return to Resort status and will agree to anything in order to see the erection of buildings. I'm afraid to say that Neptune, the Great God of the Sea is an impostor! It's actually King Canute in a very clever disguise.[/p][/quote]I think Morrisons and co did their research better than you. They wouldn't have built if it wasn't a viable location. New Brighton was clearly more attractive than other available sites. You can't just plonk a supermarket down anywhere. New Brighton was crying out for one. Good job you weren't around in the Victorian age - no piers would have been built. Clearly you have a vested interest in running down Marine Point - your username even points to it. My advice is don't bother using Marine Point - it clearly irritates you. Then there's no need for you to whine on incessantly about nature. The businesses there will survive even if they do get battered from time to time. fenix uk

1:50pm Tue 10 Dec 13

Damp_Shopping says...

Thanks for that fenix_uk - you seem to have been bitten by the, "community spirit", bug too.

I use Marine Point on a regular basis, I was there last Thursday in fact, although it was a bit tricky mooring-up the boat with all those cars floating around in the sea at the time.

I realise that it's pointless arguing with, "community minded", individuals who have been brainwashed by cynical developers and their publicity machine. You should all concentrate on picking up litter and organising raffles and leave the big stuff to those of us who understand these things better than you do.

Nice to see that Morrisons are supporting the proposed Hovercraft service. At least they see the benefits of having customers delivered to the store without them having to wade through the car park first. Every little helps...
Thanks for that fenix_uk - you seem to have been bitten by the, "community spirit", bug too. I use Marine Point on a regular basis, I was there last Thursday in fact, although it was a bit tricky mooring-up the boat with all those cars floating around in the sea at the time. I realise that it's pointless arguing with, "community minded", individuals who have been brainwashed by cynical developers and their publicity machine. You should all concentrate on picking up litter and organising raffles and leave the big stuff to those of us who understand these things better than you do. Nice to see that Morrisons are supporting the proposed Hovercraft service. At least they see the benefits of having customers delivered to the store without them having to wade through the car park first. Every little helps... Damp_Shopping

6:19pm Tue 10 Dec 13

Heycock says...

Damp_Shopping wrote:
Thanks for that fenix_uk - you seem to have been bitten by the, &quot;community spirit", bug too.

I use Marine Point on a regular basis, I was there last Thursday in fact, although it was a bit tricky mooring-up the boat with all those cars floating around in the sea at the time.

I realise that it's pointless arguing with, "community minded", individuals who have been brainwashed by cynical developers and their publicity machine. You should all concentrate on picking up litter and organising raffles and leave the big stuff to those of us who understand these things better than you do.

Nice to see that Morrisons are supporting the proposed Hovercraft service. At least they see the benefits of having customers delivered to the store without them having to wade through the car park first. Every little helps...
So. Let's sum up, Damp shopping.
Neptune, their financial backers, the insurance world, Morrisons, all the other businesses, the architects, the planners, WBC, and not least the people of New Brighton, the Wirral and further afield who've overwhelmingly supported Marine Point, HAVE ALL GOT IT WRONG. And you called it right. Seems reasonable.
[quote][p][bold]Damp_Shopping[/bold] wrote: Thanks for that fenix_uk - you seem to have been bitten by the, "community spirit", bug too. I use Marine Point on a regular basis, I was there last Thursday in fact, although it was a bit tricky mooring-up the boat with all those cars floating around in the sea at the time. I realise that it's pointless arguing with, "community minded", individuals who have been brainwashed by cynical developers and their publicity machine. You should all concentrate on picking up litter and organising raffles and leave the big stuff to those of us who understand these things better than you do. Nice to see that Morrisons are supporting the proposed Hovercraft service. At least they see the benefits of having customers delivered to the store without them having to wade through the car park first. Every little helps...[/p][/quote]So. Let's sum up, Damp shopping. Neptune, their financial backers, the insurance world, Morrisons, all the other businesses, the architects, the planners, WBC, and not least the people of New Brighton, the Wirral and further afield who've overwhelmingly supported Marine Point, HAVE ALL GOT IT WRONG. And you called it right. Seems reasonable. Heycock

7:00pm Tue 10 Dec 13

Damp_Shopping says...

Thank you!

We got there in the end...
Thank you! We got there in the end... Damp_Shopping

7:17pm Tue 10 Dec 13

dave301bounty says...

There are a lot of persons putting there view on what should be done ,,whats been done has happened ,thing is now ,sensible talk ,if it is possible .this cannot just carry on ,redo up the damage ,and act like it will never happen again ,my group of friends including a few fishermen ,and we all spoke the same as did the residents ,the site was to be prepared properly ,amonst a lot more ,there was no objection to helping New Brighton to better itself but it had to be done in a sensible way ,last Thursday was the out come of NOT seeing out the worse case scenario ,I ask you ,who was the great architect to say ,build this in the place ,size etc .No there are a lot of questions will never be answered ,but I do hope a lesson has been learned ,enough of this squabbling and learn ,you just cannot push the sea out ,she will take back and claim its land ,eventually
There are a lot of persons putting there view on what should be done ,,whats been done has happened ,thing is now ,sensible talk ,if it is possible .this cannot just carry on ,redo up the damage ,and act like it will never happen again ,my group of friends including a few fishermen ,and we all spoke the same as did the residents ,the site was to be prepared properly ,amonst a lot more ,there was no objection to helping New Brighton to better itself but it had to be done in a sensible way ,last Thursday was the out come of NOT seeing out the worse case scenario ,I ask you ,who was the great architect to say ,build this in the place ,size etc .No there are a lot of questions will never be answered ,but I do hope a lesson has been learned ,enough of this squabbling and learn ,you just cannot push the sea out ,she will take back and claim its land ,eventually dave301bounty

7:32pm Tue 10 Dec 13

Heycock says...

Damp_Shopping wrote:
Thank you!

We got there in the end...
Not really. I must be losing my touch. People generally find it obvious when I introduce a little ironic sarcasm.
[quote][p][bold]Damp_Shopping[/bold] wrote: Thank you! We got there in the end...[/p][/quote]Not really. I must be losing my touch. People generally find it obvious when I introduce a little ironic sarcasm. Heycock

8:29pm Tue 10 Dec 13

Damp_Shopping says...

Both of us in the same boat then?

Lets go shopping...!
Both of us in the same boat then? Lets go shopping...! Damp_Shopping

11:22pm Tue 10 Dec 13

hobroW says...

Damp_Shopping wrote:
Thanks for that fenix_uk - you seem to have been bitten by the, &quot;community spirit", bug too.

I use Marine Point on a regular basis, I was there last Thursday in fact, although it was a bit tricky mooring-up the boat with all those cars floating around in the sea at the time.

I realise that it's pointless arguing with, "community minded", individuals who have been brainwashed by cynical developers and their publicity machine. You should all concentrate on picking up litter and organising raffles and leave the big stuff to those of us who understand these things better than you do.

Nice to see that Morrisons are supporting the proposed Hovercraft service. At least they see the benefits of having customers delivered to the store without them having to wade through the car park first. Every little helps...
love the hosing down of those "community-minded" clones. They need a right watering to calm them down. Picking up debris is not the Dunkirk spirit. Its usually done by persons in fluorescent jackets not necessarily heroes but guys earning an unglamorous living. Putting a brave face on a disaster yes, and well done volunteers, but a triumph is a little over-rotating the spin cycle that wont leave the developers home and dry.

The guys from the action Group patiently explain how they brought objections to the siting of Marine Point, and suddenly they are all crazy, "Sir" Pat is some kind of folk hero, the Action Group are loonies, and all because a few dozen persons chipped in to mop out the mess.The flood happened, will recur and reasonable objections were poo-poohed in the rush to pander to wealthy developers.

Oh and Sir Pat did you save the New Brighton Community Centre by selling sandwiches and hot food to the builders of Marine Point. It seems either shut or empty most days.
[quote][p][bold]Damp_Shopping[/bold] wrote: Thanks for that fenix_uk - you seem to have been bitten by the, "community spirit", bug too. I use Marine Point on a regular basis, I was there last Thursday in fact, although it was a bit tricky mooring-up the boat with all those cars floating around in the sea at the time. I realise that it's pointless arguing with, "community minded", individuals who have been brainwashed by cynical developers and their publicity machine. You should all concentrate on picking up litter and organising raffles and leave the big stuff to those of us who understand these things better than you do. Nice to see that Morrisons are supporting the proposed Hovercraft service. At least they see the benefits of having customers delivered to the store without them having to wade through the car park first. Every little helps...[/p][/quote]love the hosing down of those "community-minded" clones. They need a right watering to calm them down. Picking up debris is not the Dunkirk spirit. Its usually done by persons in fluorescent jackets not necessarily heroes but guys earning an unglamorous living. Putting a brave face on a disaster yes, and well done volunteers, but a triumph is a little over-rotating the spin cycle that wont leave the developers home and dry. The guys from the action Group patiently explain how they brought objections to the siting of Marine Point, and suddenly they are all crazy, "Sir" Pat is some kind of folk hero, the Action Group are loonies, and all because a few dozen persons chipped in to mop out the mess.The flood happened, will recur and reasonable objections were poo-poohed in the rush to pander to wealthy developers. Oh and Sir Pat did you save the New Brighton Community Centre by selling sandwiches and hot food to the builders of Marine Point. It seems either shut or empty most days. hobroW

10:28am Wed 11 Dec 13

artemis81 says...

So Marine Point has been open for 2 1/2 years with no problems whatsoever. What happened last week affected business for, what, two days? And that was the worst incident of flooding for at least 20 years. Given the location of the development, I'd say predicting it might be affected by weather and flooding very occasionally is hardly rocket science. But on the balance of the probabilities given the facts above, it is clearly a risk that is being managed and is worth taking.
So Marine Point has been open for 2 1/2 years with no problems whatsoever. What happened last week affected business for, what, two days? And that was the worst incident of flooding for at least 20 years. Given the location of the development, I'd say predicting it might be affected by weather and flooding very occasionally is hardly rocket science. But on the balance of the probabilities given the facts above, it is clearly a risk that is being managed and is worth taking. artemis81

11:05am Wed 11 Dec 13

community1 says...

What a cynical bunch the moaners you are, thank god they were not in charge when the council, developers, businesses and community members against the same sort of cynical people in the shape of the NBHAG were able to finally move things on in New Brighton against this downright negative and outright arrogant attitude displayed here. Do not forget the developers and council did not display any of these characteristics and listened through numerous public meetings, exhibitions, surveys, questionnaires and a 4 week public inquiry when it was knocked back by the Labour Government of the day. This was over a 7 year period and it was revised again after listening to the public before any thing even got moving, sounds like consultation fatigue in the end I would say wouldn’t you? The public have now voted with their feet and a lot of people to be fair to them who were originally opposed have changed their minds and have made the place the outstanding success it is now.
As for community minded and spirited what a nasty person you are to say what you said about them, thank god people like you are not running things it’s hardly the attitude to get the best out of people. Do you not think as reported in yesterdays Echo that people and businesses helped each other out of the goodness of their heart (which is obviously missing with you) because they love the place and what it has brought in its variety, we regularly go to the cinema and finish off in Marino’s and pick up something on the way home in Morrison’s.
Regards the Community Centre I would say it has served the Community very well since 1981 and it needs help to keep going not to be attacked.
I would say the council have done a magnificent job creating 800 local jobs to date and the councillors should be congratulated and I am sure they are looking to build on the success to date and the Hovercraft is just one example, but I tell you what they could not rely on the support from some of the people writing in these columns that’s for sure, who just want to stand still dreaming of the past and their fantasy version of utopia!
What a cynical bunch the moaners you are, thank god they were not in charge when the council, developers, businesses and community members against the same sort of cynical people in the shape of the NBHAG were able to finally move things on in New Brighton against this downright negative and outright arrogant attitude displayed here. Do not forget the developers and council did not display any of these characteristics and listened through numerous public meetings, exhibitions, surveys, questionnaires and a 4 week public inquiry when it was knocked back by the Labour Government of the day. This was over a 7 year period and it was revised again after listening to the public before any thing even got moving, sounds like consultation fatigue in the end I would say wouldn’t you? The public have now voted with their feet and a lot of people to be fair to them who were originally opposed have changed their minds and have made the place the outstanding success it is now. As for community minded and spirited what a nasty person you are to say what you said about them, thank god people like you are not running things it’s hardly the attitude to get the best out of people. Do you not think as reported in yesterdays Echo that people and businesses helped each other out of the goodness of their heart (which is obviously missing with you) because they love the place and what it has brought in its variety, we regularly go to the cinema and finish off in Marino’s and pick up something on the way home in Morrison’s. Regards the Community Centre I would say it has served the Community very well since 1981 and it needs help to keep going not to be attacked. I would say the council have done a magnificent job creating 800 local jobs to date and the councillors should be congratulated and I am sure they are looking to build on the success to date and the Hovercraft is just one example, but I tell you what they could not rely on the support from some of the people writing in these columns that’s for sure, who just want to stand still dreaming of the past and their fantasy version of utopia! community1

11:52am Wed 11 Dec 13

piermaster says...

hobroW wrote:
Damp_Shopping wrote:
Thanks for that fenix_uk - you seem to have been bitten by the, &quot;community spirit", bug too.

I use Marine Point on a regular basis, I was there last Thursday in fact, although it was a bit tricky mooring-up the boat with all those cars floating around in the sea at the time.

I realise that it's pointless arguing with, "community minded", individuals who have been brainwashed by cynical developers and their publicity machine. You should all concentrate on picking up litter and organising raffles and leave the big stuff to those of us who understand these things better than you do.

Nice to see that Morrisons are supporting the proposed Hovercraft service. At least they see the benefits of having customers delivered to the store without them having to wade through the car park first. Every little helps...
love the hosing down of those "community-minded" clones. They need a right watering to calm them down. Picking up debris is not the Dunkirk spirit. Its usually done by persons in fluorescent jackets not necessarily heroes but guys earning an unglamorous living. Putting a brave face on a disaster yes, and well done volunteers, but a triumph is a little over-rotating the spin cycle that wont leave the developers home and dry.

The guys from the action Group patiently explain how they brought objections to the siting of Marine Point, and suddenly they are all crazy, "Sir" Pat is some kind of folk hero, the Action Group are loonies, and all because a few dozen persons chipped in to mop out the mess.The flood happened, will recur and reasonable objections were poo-poohed in the rush to pander to wealthy developers.

Oh and Sir Pat did you save the New Brighton Community Centre by selling sandwiches and hot food to the builders of Marine Point. It seems either shut or empty most days.
You make snide comments about the community centre, try asking the folks who have lunch there on a regular basis and fully use the facilities on offer at the centre!!
You try to badmouth one of the most active councillors in the locality!
You seem to have a real grudge against anyone with some sort of community spirit! and imply everyone but you and some of your deluded followers are wrong to have a sense of community and care about the area.
Can I suggest you take a good long look in the mirror and keep your bitter and twisted comments to yourself!

Like it or not People love New Brighton for what it is, not what it WAS!!

you appear to be (and your comments support the view) a self deluded ignorant and horrible individual who for what ever reason semms to think everone is wrong except you, what motivates so much vitreol?? have you thought of seeking help??
[quote][p][bold]hobroW[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]Damp_Shopping[/bold] wrote: Thanks for that fenix_uk - you seem to have been bitten by the, "community spirit", bug too. I use Marine Point on a regular basis, I was there last Thursday in fact, although it was a bit tricky mooring-up the boat with all those cars floating around in the sea at the time. I realise that it's pointless arguing with, "community minded", individuals who have been brainwashed by cynical developers and their publicity machine. You should all concentrate on picking up litter and organising raffles and leave the big stuff to those of us who understand these things better than you do. Nice to see that Morrisons are supporting the proposed Hovercraft service. At least they see the benefits of having customers delivered to the store without them having to wade through the car park first. Every little helps...[/p][/quote]love the hosing down of those "community-minded" clones. They need a right watering to calm them down. Picking up debris is not the Dunkirk spirit. Its usually done by persons in fluorescent jackets not necessarily heroes but guys earning an unglamorous living. Putting a brave face on a disaster yes, and well done volunteers, but a triumph is a little over-rotating the spin cycle that wont leave the developers home and dry. The guys from the action Group patiently explain how they brought objections to the siting of Marine Point, and suddenly they are all crazy, "Sir" Pat is some kind of folk hero, the Action Group are loonies, and all because a few dozen persons chipped in to mop out the mess.The flood happened, will recur and reasonable objections were poo-poohed in the rush to pander to wealthy developers. Oh and Sir Pat did you save the New Brighton Community Centre by selling sandwiches and hot food to the builders of Marine Point. It seems either shut or empty most days.[/p][/quote]You make snide comments about the community centre, try asking the folks who have lunch there on a regular basis and fully use the facilities on offer at the centre!! You try to badmouth one of the most active councillors in the locality! You seem to have a real grudge against anyone with some sort of community spirit! and imply everyone but you and some of your deluded followers are wrong to have a sense of community and care about the area. Can I suggest you take a good long look in the mirror and keep your bitter and twisted comments to yourself! Like it or not People love New Brighton for what it is, not what it WAS!! you appear to be (and your comments support the view) a self deluded ignorant and horrible individual who for what ever reason semms to think everone is wrong except you, what motivates so much vitreol?? have you thought of seeking help?? piermaster

1:40pm Wed 11 Dec 13

Damp_Shopping says...

I worked with "volunteers" and "community" groups for nearly 10 years. Following that sorry experience, I will never work with them again.

The response on here from those who consider themselves as "community spirited", reminds me of why I'll never work with them again. They represent the very worst kind of small-mindlessness and blinkered, right wing provincial isolationism.

They setup committees and groups that they can control and manipulate and rule those with an iron fist. Decent is crushed, nastiness prevails and inappropriately qualified little-people, give themselves titles such as , "Chairman" or "Secretary" or "Liaison Officer". It's a front very often for their own powerlessness and they are the easiest groups to brainwash when genuinely clever big-people seek their support in order to further their own commercial aspirations.

They haunt feedback pages such as this one and they act as if we're all subordinates and can be dictated to in the same way as their members are dictated to at meetings and via channels such as "Community Newsletters".

I'm not interested in the low-brow ramblings of people like that, I'm more experienced than them and my opinions are.navigated not by dogma and bile but by critical thinking and real-world experiences.

I don't need to be told by some scone baking, "community minded" do-gooder, that my views are, "deluded" and "ignorant", they are valid views and views based on my own experience of doing actual business in Wallasey and elsewhere.

If Morrisons threw open their cafe on Sunday and gave free breakfasts to those volunteers who gave their time to clean up or, if Neptune Developments funded an army of broom wielding cleaners to help with the mess, then I'd be impressed. Every-day citizens aiding commercial organisations to continue making money, doesn't impress me at all. It's a perversion of, "The Dunkirk Spirit" but I bet the proposal and proposer got a round of applause and an extra biscuit at some committee meeting in some tax payer subsidised room somewhere.

I am not, and never have been, a member of any "action group" in support or in opposition to Neptune Developments Marine Point project. I am a free thinking businessman who has every right to express my feelings regarding any local issue that I see as warranting a concerned resident's comments.
I worked with "volunteers" and "community" groups for nearly 10 years. Following that sorry experience, I will never work with them again. The response on here from those who consider themselves as "community spirited", reminds me of why I'll never work with them again. They represent the very worst kind of small-mindlessness and blinkered, right wing provincial isolationism. They setup committees and groups that they can control and manipulate and rule those with an iron fist. Decent is crushed, nastiness prevails and inappropriately qualified little-people, give themselves titles such as , "Chairman" or "Secretary" or "Liaison Officer". It's a front very often for their own powerlessness and they are the easiest groups to brainwash when genuinely clever big-people seek their support in order to further their own commercial aspirations. They haunt feedback pages such as this one and they act as if we're all subordinates and can be dictated to in the same way as their members are dictated to at meetings and via channels such as "Community Newsletters". I'm not interested in the low-brow ramblings of people like that, I'm more experienced than them and my opinions are.navigated not by dogma and bile but by critical thinking and real-world experiences. I don't need to be told by some scone baking, "community minded" do-gooder, that my views are, "deluded" and "ignorant", they are valid views and views based on my own experience of doing actual business in Wallasey and elsewhere. If Morrisons threw open their cafe on Sunday and gave free breakfasts to those volunteers who gave their time to clean up or, if Neptune Developments funded an army of broom wielding cleaners to help with the mess, then I'd be impressed. Every-day citizens aiding commercial organisations to continue making money, doesn't impress me at all. It's a perversion of, "The Dunkirk Spirit" but I bet the proposal and proposer got a round of applause and an extra biscuit at some committee meeting in some tax payer subsidised room somewhere. I am not, and never have been, a member of any "action group" in support or in opposition to Neptune Developments Marine Point project. I am a free thinking businessman who has every right to express my feelings regarding any local issue that I see as warranting a concerned resident's comments. Damp_Shopping

2:33pm Wed 11 Dec 13

community1 says...

They are based on your own experiences which sound bad, but please don't generalise as you do here and throw everyone into the same pot. It was great to see everyone rally round including businesses helping each other with food and drinks in the case of the Light, Prezzo and La Tascas.
They are based on your own experiences which sound bad, but please don't generalise as you do here and throw everyone into the same pot. It was great to see everyone rally round including businesses helping each other with food and drinks in the case of the Light, Prezzo and La Tascas. community1

4:27pm Wed 11 Dec 13

piermaster says...

Damp_Shopping wrote:
I worked with &quot;volunteers" and "community" groups for nearly 10 years. Following that sorry experience, I will never work with them again.

The response on here from those who consider themselves as "community spirited", reminds me of why I'll never work with them again. They represent the very worst kind of small-mindlessness and blinkered, right wing provincial isolationism.

They setup committees and groups that they can control and manipulate and rule those with an iron fist. Decent is crushed, nastiness prevails and inappropriately qualified little-people, give themselves titles such as , "Chairman" or "Secretary" or "Liaison Officer". It's a front very often for their own powerlessness and they are the easiest groups to brainwash when genuinely clever big-people seek their support in order to further their own commercial aspirations.

They haunt feedback pages such as this one and they act as if we're all subordinates and can be dictated to in the same way as their members are dictated to at meetings and via channels such as "Community Newsletters".

I'm not interested in the low-brow ramblings of people like that, I'm more experienced than them and my opinions are.navigated not by dogma and bile but by critical thinking and real-world experiences.

I don't need to be told by some scone baking, "community minded" do-gooder, that my views are, "deluded" and "ignorant", they are valid views and views based on my own experience of doing actual business in Wallasey and elsewhere.

If Morrisons threw open their cafe on Sunday and gave free breakfasts to those volunteers who gave their time to clean up or, if Neptune Developments funded an army of broom wielding cleaners to help with the mess, then I'd be impressed. Every-day citizens aiding commercial organisations to continue making money, doesn't impress me at all. It's a perversion of, "The Dunkirk Spirit" but I bet the proposal and proposer got a round of applause and an extra biscuit at some committee meeting in some tax payer subsidised room somewhere.

I am not, and never have been, a member of any "action group" in support or in opposition to Neptune Developments Marine Point project. I am a free thinking businessman who has every right to express my feelings regarding any local issue that I see as warranting a concerned resident's comments.
"Haunt feedback pages such as this one" count your contributions sir?? I can see the raw nerves exposed now, sad act!!
[quote][p][bold]Damp_Shopping[/bold] wrote: I worked with "volunteers" and "community" groups for nearly 10 years. Following that sorry experience, I will never work with them again. The response on here from those who consider themselves as "community spirited", reminds me of why I'll never work with them again. They represent the very worst kind of small-mindlessness and blinkered, right wing provincial isolationism. They setup committees and groups that they can control and manipulate and rule those with an iron fist. Decent is crushed, nastiness prevails and inappropriately qualified little-people, give themselves titles such as , "Chairman" or "Secretary" or "Liaison Officer". It's a front very often for their own powerlessness and they are the easiest groups to brainwash when genuinely clever big-people seek their support in order to further their own commercial aspirations. They haunt feedback pages such as this one and they act as if we're all subordinates and can be dictated to in the same way as their members are dictated to at meetings and via channels such as "Community Newsletters". I'm not interested in the low-brow ramblings of people like that, I'm more experienced than them and my opinions are.navigated not by dogma and bile but by critical thinking and real-world experiences. I don't need to be told by some scone baking, "community minded" do-gooder, that my views are, "deluded" and "ignorant", they are valid views and views based on my own experience of doing actual business in Wallasey and elsewhere. If Morrisons threw open their cafe on Sunday and gave free breakfasts to those volunteers who gave their time to clean up or, if Neptune Developments funded an army of broom wielding cleaners to help with the mess, then I'd be impressed. Every-day citizens aiding commercial organisations to continue making money, doesn't impress me at all. It's a perversion of, "The Dunkirk Spirit" but I bet the proposal and proposer got a round of applause and an extra biscuit at some committee meeting in some tax payer subsidised room somewhere. I am not, and never have been, a member of any "action group" in support or in opposition to Neptune Developments Marine Point project. I am a free thinking businessman who has every right to express my feelings regarding any local issue that I see as warranting a concerned resident's comments.[/p][/quote]"Haunt feedback pages such as this one" count your contributions sir?? I can see the raw nerves exposed now, sad act!! piermaster

4:58pm Wed 11 Dec 13

hobroW says...

Piermaster thank you for your response.

The object was not to be snide about New Brighton Community Centre, it is just that space in this columns dictates brevity and brevity can appear to be snide.
So I will develop my theme. The lunches will be funded and will provide a salary for Sir Pat and , I think, for his sister, the chef. The buliding is owned by the council and let at a peppercorn rent to the Trust. the computers and equipment were funded likewise from public grants.

Any rental income from the "One stop shop" is the Council paying the Trust for occupying its own property and will far exceed the peppercorn rent paid for by the Trust.

What I am saying is that the Councillor has shown no acumen yet for what might be called "Sustainability" ,private-financing, or enterprise , except to draw some salary from the Trust in addition to councillor allowances. In the end all monies derive from the council-how does that make him a regenerative hero or specialist?

This is merely the antidote to uncritical praise, and however bitter to your taste, it does not stem from myself being bitter. I avow perhaps a little humour at the delusions that people seem to cherish particulalrly regarding the abilities of Labour councillors. Give me Mr Pritchard anytime.
Piermaster thank you for your response. The object was not to be snide about New Brighton Community Centre, it is just that space in this columns dictates brevity and brevity can appear to be snide. So I will develop my theme. The lunches will be funded and will provide a salary for Sir Pat and , I think, for his sister, the chef. The buliding is owned by the council and let at a peppercorn rent to the Trust. the computers and equipment were funded likewise from public grants. Any rental income from the "One stop shop" is the Council paying the Trust for occupying its own property and will far exceed the peppercorn rent paid for by the Trust. What I am saying is that the Councillor has shown no acumen yet for what might be called "Sustainability" ,private-financing, or enterprise , except to draw some salary from the Trust in addition to councillor allowances. In the end all monies derive from the council-how does that make him a regenerative hero or specialist? This is merely the antidote to uncritical praise, and however bitter to your taste, it does not stem from myself being bitter. I avow perhaps a little humour at the delusions that people seem to cherish particulalrly regarding the abilities of Labour councillors. Give me Mr Pritchard anytime. hobroW

5:35pm Wed 11 Dec 13

Damp_Shopping says...

I'm very pleased that Piermaster sees my postings as a "contribution" to this debate. They are exactly that - a contribution..

Because I'm not a member of one of your "community groups", I am beyond your control and jurisdiction and I can see that you are very uncomfortable with that. You can't criticise me in your Minutes, you can't agendise an item of censure against me and you can't gossip about me with one of your "Press Liaison Officers" over tea and scones at the "Community Centre". All these things are fuel to your fire but I am as far away from it's glow as is possible to be.

Citizens of New Brighton unite! Stop listening to professional committee dwellers and never accept a scone off any of them - they're spiked with home-spun disinformation and packed full of misguided dogma.
I'm very pleased that Piermaster sees my postings as a "contribution" to this debate. They are exactly that - a contribution.. Because I'm not a member of one of your "community groups", I am beyond your control and jurisdiction and I can see that you are very uncomfortable with that. You can't criticise me in your Minutes, you can't agendise an item of censure against me and you can't gossip about me with one of your "Press Liaison Officers" over tea and scones at the "Community Centre". All these things are fuel to your fire but I am as far away from it's glow as is possible to be. Citizens of New Brighton unite! Stop listening to professional committee dwellers and never accept a scone off any of them - they're spiked with home-spun disinformation and packed full of misguided dogma. Damp_Shopping

6:37pm Wed 11 Dec 13

hobroW says...

Mr Hackett accepted and had paid £7,300 of our council's money for a business budget which effectively is no such thing at all. It is neither a cashflow, nor is it a projected profit and loss . but reconciles the impossible feature of being both at the same time. The plan effectively is figures that might have been drawn onto the back of an envvelope and then "filled across" (Excel function) 12 columns to represent monthly outgoings.

£7,300 + VAT for such a piece of work suggest naivety on the part of Sir Pat and/or a complete disregard for council taxpayers money. The latter was a part of the Community asset transfer program, an attempt of the council to persuade incumbent community groups to accept a tenant-repairing lease funded from private venture. The plan was paid for but the asset never transferred so I imagine that a Cabinet member sits in the community centre where repairs and maintenance continue to be the responsibility of the council. So much for the £7,300 sustainability plan + VAT.

The above is FACT. Bitter to be heard to "community1" perhaps but the revelation itself simply contributes to the debate as to the credentials of councillors
Mr Hackett accepted and had paid £7,300 of our council's money for a business budget which effectively is no such thing at all. It is neither a cashflow, nor is it a projected profit and loss . but reconciles the impossible feature of being both at the same time. The plan effectively is figures that might have been drawn onto the back of an envvelope and then "filled across" (Excel function) 12 columns to represent monthly outgoings. £7,300 + VAT for such a piece of work suggest naivety on the part of Sir Pat and/or a complete disregard for council taxpayers money. The latter was a part of the Community asset transfer program, an attempt of the council to persuade incumbent community groups to accept a tenant-repairing lease funded from private venture. The plan was paid for but the asset never transferred so I imagine that a Cabinet member sits in the community centre where repairs and maintenance continue to be the responsibility of the council. So much for the £7,300 sustainability plan + VAT. The above is FACT. Bitter to be heard to "community1" perhaps but the revelation itself simply contributes to the debate as to the credentials of councillors hobroW

8:35pm Wed 11 Dec 13

PaulCa says...

Sir Pat is an anagram of Is Prat
Sir Pat is an anagram of Is Prat PaulCa

7:37pm Thu 12 Dec 13

Joeblogg85 says...

Joeblogg85 wrote:
Three cheers for Sir Pat of New Brighton! Hip hip hooray! Seriously, a big thumbs up for Councillor Hackett. He stuck by his guns when the naysayers where out in force.

I agree with other in that NB was a right tip before the regeneration and it still would be if it wasn't for Sir Pat and others.

The Council stuck to it's guns, the area is regenerated and jobs created. It's win win.
I think all this Sir Pat stuff followed on from this earlier post.

Cllr Hackett is certainly no regeneration guru and I suggest he will be the first person to accept that. However, no matter what people say, he did stick to his guns when others around him tried to de-rail the whole regeneration process. Now we have an area of Wirral that was stuck in the dark ages, now on the up. Surely that has to be a good thing?

Arise once again Sir Pat.......
[quote][p][bold]Joeblogg85[/bold] wrote: Three cheers for Sir Pat of New Brighton! Hip hip hooray! Seriously, a big thumbs up for Councillor Hackett. He stuck by his guns when the naysayers where out in force. I agree with other in that NB was a right tip before the regeneration and it still would be if it wasn't for Sir Pat and others. The Council stuck to it's guns, the area is regenerated and jobs created. It's win win.[/p][/quote]I think all this Sir Pat stuff followed on from this earlier post. Cllr Hackett is certainly no regeneration guru and I suggest he will be the first person to accept that. However, no matter what people say, he did stick to his guns when others around him tried to de-rail the whole regeneration process. Now we have an area of Wirral that was stuck in the dark ages, now on the up. Surely that has to be a good thing? Arise once again Sir Pat....... Joeblogg85

9:14pm Thu 12 Dec 13

Damp_Shopping says...

You don't have to agree with Pat Hackett to see that he's sincere.

He dosen't deserve personal attacks in my opinion
You don't have to agree with Pat Hackett to see that he's sincere. He dosen't deserve personal attacks in my opinion Damp_Shopping

10:47am Fri 13 Dec 13

Joeblogg85 says...

Damp_Shopping wrote:
You don't have to agree with Pat Hackett to see that he's sincere.

He dosen't deserve personal attacks in my opinion
I agree Damp. I hope my point did not come across that way? I have been very critical of some of Wirrals Councillors in the past but Cllr Hackett has definitely got the best interests of New Brighton at heart.
[quote][p][bold]Damp_Shopping[/bold] wrote: You don't have to agree with Pat Hackett to see that he's sincere. He dosen't deserve personal attacks in my opinion[/p][/quote]I agree Damp. I hope my point did not come across that way? I have been very critical of some of Wirrals Councillors in the past but Cllr Hackett has definitely got the best interests of New Brighton at heart. Joeblogg85

12:24pm Fri 13 Dec 13

hobroW says...

Mr Hackett is a public official and must stand on his record. My contributions reveal a tranche of his past record which must be entered in to the ledger for voters to judge. It was fortuitous that I possess this knowledge "on the inside" and I do not intend to waste this insider information.

We must remember the NHS being lauded to the skies at the London Olympics, and that before the disclosures were made re "community-minded" persons as Jimmy Savile with full access to wards; re data fabrication and poor standards of care. Once this more intimate data becomes available we revise our opinions.

Stuart Hall appeared to be a community-minded chap as have been certain reverends and scout masters.

I cannot form an absolute opinion on any matter but I can report what I do know without attacking Cllr Hackett's sincerity for which I can neither vouch nor disavouch.
Mr Hackett is a public official and must stand on his record. My contributions reveal a tranche of his past record which must be entered in to the ledger for voters to judge. It was fortuitous that I possess this knowledge "on the inside" and I do not intend to waste this insider information. We must remember the NHS being lauded to the skies at the London Olympics, and that before the disclosures were made re "community-minded" persons as Jimmy Savile with full access to wards; re data fabrication and poor standards of care. Once this more intimate data becomes available we revise our opinions. Stuart Hall appeared to be a community-minded chap as have been certain reverends and scout masters. I cannot form an absolute opinion on any matter but I can report what I do know without attacking Cllr Hackett's sincerity for which I can neither vouch nor disavouch. hobroW

8:21pm Fri 13 Dec 13

dave301bounty says...

WELL This / that storm has really shown anyone from outside that there really is a lot of uncertain opinion regarding the development of New Brighton ,whether it be for good or bad ,but questions should be answered ,not a lot of very good will to fob of the people ,what is going to happen NOW ,its been a week ,quite interesting to see how much has been done to get on course ,will anyone stand up and say ,we could have been a lot more prepared .?
WELL This / that storm has really shown anyone from outside that there really is a lot of uncertain opinion regarding the development of New Brighton ,whether it be for good or bad ,but questions should be answered ,not a lot of very good will to fob of the people ,what is going to happen NOW ,its been a week ,quite interesting to see how much has been done to get on course ,will anyone stand up and say ,we could have been a lot more prepared .? dave301bounty

11:54pm Tue 17 Dec 13

hobroW says...

a last contribution to the Cllr Hackett credentials debate. Mr Hackett is a councillor and the Cabinet Member for regeneration. It is true that Councillors generally are not financial experts and that their role is greatly as ambassadors of the public. However even the Council by admitting external experts to the audit and Risk committee is acknowledging the inherent weakness of the system where Cabinet Members rely on the expertise of Managers, Indeed their trust has repeatedly been abused.
Mr Hackett did not authorise the £7,300 + vat bill for the Community Centre probably unaware of how much it cost. But he also did not recognise the defects and absurd simplicity of the budgets contained therein, and demonstrated an unconcern as to what was billed to the Council. That is a curious absence of curiousity and has been reflected all along the line these past few years.

The introduction of independent experts sitting alongside community champions on committees is one reform for which we must be grateful.

For any hurt feelings please allow me to address you as "Sir Pat" just this once to make some amends.
a last contribution to the Cllr Hackett credentials debate. Mr Hackett is a councillor and the Cabinet Member for regeneration. It is true that Councillors generally are not financial experts and that their role is greatly as ambassadors of the public. However even the Council by admitting external experts to the audit and Risk committee is acknowledging the inherent weakness of the system where Cabinet Members rely on the expertise of Managers, Indeed their trust has repeatedly been abused. Mr Hackett did not authorise the £7,300 + vat bill for the Community Centre probably unaware of how much it cost. But he also did not recognise the defects and absurd simplicity of the budgets contained therein, and demonstrated an unconcern as to what was billed to the Council. That is a curious absence of curiousity and has been reflected all along the line these past few years. The introduction of independent experts sitting alongside community champions on committees is one reform for which we must be grateful. For any hurt feelings please allow me to address you as "Sir Pat" just this once to make some amends. hobroW

3:25pm Wed 18 Dec 13

bazersworld says...

I took a walk on the promenade recently after the storm, and was pleased to see the damage was not as bad as the media made out. Car park at perch rock did not look breached, just covered with sand and sea weed, which is normal in these conditions. I think the rocks in front of the wall and round the perch rock calmed things down a little. The biggest damage was of water flowing all over the kings parade, which again is normal. But at least water can be mopped up. The worst area that was and will be affected is Morrison s car park. For this car park in the days of New Brighton Baths used to always flood, so much that because it was lower than sea level anything trapped in their at high tides would not be seen until the water had drained away. Luckily enough in those days this car park was only gravel and it would soon seep back into the sea, the baths to used to act as a drain at time of flooding, the marine lake being open to the sea and the river was a natural pressure reducer. So damage was kept to a minimum. When building on the land of the sea, you have to install some sought of drainage system, so that flood water can be drained away. Albeit slowly because of the size and strength of the storm. All the citizens that were involved in the cleaning up of New Brighton, all that can be said is well done each and everyone of you.
I took a walk on the promenade recently after the storm, and was pleased to see the damage was not as bad as the media made out. Car park at perch rock did not look breached, just covered with sand and sea weed, which is normal in these conditions. I think the rocks in front of the wall and round the perch rock calmed things down a little. The biggest damage was of water flowing all over the kings parade, which again is normal. But at least water can be mopped up. The worst area that was and will be affected is Morrison s car park. For this car park in the days of New Brighton Baths used to always flood, so much that because it was lower than sea level anything trapped in their at high tides would not be seen until the water had drained away. Luckily enough in those days this car park was only gravel and it would soon seep back into the sea, the baths to used to act as a drain at time of flooding, the marine lake being open to the sea and the river was a natural pressure reducer. So damage was kept to a minimum. When building on the land of the sea, you have to install some sought of drainage system, so that flood water can be drained away. Albeit slowly because of the size and strength of the storm. All the citizens that were involved in the cleaning up of New Brighton, all that can be said is well done each and everyone of you. bazersworld

6:42pm Wed 18 Dec 13

dave301bounty says...

The Drainage Was a big issue that we insisted be done in a proper fashion , that is as was stated at the time ,like ,similar to a coaster sailing in a heavy sea ,the decks had scuppers to allow the saltwater to run away ,this was ALL talked about at the time of Public debate ,yet it was pushed away .The people ,public have done a great job in cleaning up ,I was down looking and truly amazed at how well the public worked together ,could not the council do similar in future ? ive had comments from friends etc from abroad and far ,this has been an eye opener and lesson ..
The Drainage Was a big issue that we insisted be done in a proper fashion , that is as was stated at the time ,like ,similar to a coaster sailing in a heavy sea ,the decks had scuppers to allow the saltwater to run away ,this was ALL talked about at the time of Public debate ,yet it was pushed away .The people ,public have done a great job in cleaning up ,I was down looking and truly amazed at how well the public worked together ,could not the council do similar in future ? ive had comments from friends etc from abroad and far ,this has been an eye opener and lesson .. dave301bounty

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