Wirral councillors clash over who's to blame for town hall's 'Downton Abbey' staircase

Wirral Globe: Conservative councillor Ian Lewis inspects the 'Downton Abbey' staircase Conservative councillor Ian Lewis inspects the 'Downton Abbey' staircase

PLANS for a new staircase for Wallasey Town Hall costing £850,000 – blasted by a Tory councillor as “Downton Abbey” extravagance – were actually drawn up when Conservatives ran the council.

Council leader Phil Davies has produced a minute from a budget-setting meeting in February of 2011 – a time when the authority was under control of a Tory and Liberal Democrat coalition – showing £1.6m was to be set aside for safety improvements.

The discovery could be embarrassing for the Conservatives, who this week attacked the expenditure at a time when multi-million pound service cuts are being considered.

However, they still blame Labour and maintain the cost is "excessive."

Work on the staircase is well underway and includes encasing the new fire escape in double-glazing and banisters sporting cast-iron balustrades.

Councillor Ian Lewis had poured scorn on the scheme: "At a time when the town hall is turning off streetlights to save cash, how on earth can spending so much money on an 'executive fire escape' be justified?

"This fire escape looks as though it would not be out of place in Downton Abbey.

"Fire safety must, of course, be a priority - but how many fire escapes are double-glazed and kitted out to this extent?”

Councillor Davies, leader of the Labour group, said: “Given that Ian Lewis was a member of the cabinet which put £1.6m into the capital programme at budget cabinet in February 2011, it is blatant hypocrisy for him to now criticise the council for undertaking the work.

“The scheme was required to improve the town hall’s fire safety standards and ensure it was fully accessible for people with disabilities.

“We also have a legal requirement to do this to a standard that will comply with regulations, as the building has Grade II listed status.

“When the scheme and estimate came to the Labour cabinet in January, the cost had been reduced to £834,723 excluding fees.

“I am surprised that Ian seems to have forgotten the role he personally played in authorising this expenditure.”

Councillor Lewis denied he'd scored an own goal: "It’s a bit rich for the Labour Party to now seek to blame me for a decision they took in January 2012.

"Nowhere in the council’s capital programme prior to this had there been any reference to a double glazed, stainless steel and cast iron staircase.

"I’m afraid the Labour Party is once again seeking to blame others instead of taking responsibility for its own decisions at a time when it is telling Wirral there is no money for street lights."

Comments (41)

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4:18pm Fri 29 Nov 13

uncatom says...

Yep that's the Tories for you, blame everyone else, lets see if there are any admissions of guilt, it wasn't me gov, it was definitely any one of the others.
Yep that's the Tories for you, blame everyone else, lets see if there are any admissions of guilt, it wasn't me gov, it was definitely any one of the others. uncatom

4:24pm Fri 29 Nov 13

Joeblogg85 says...

More wriggling from the Labour Group. A budget may have been approved in 2011 but a lot has happened since then. People weren't losing their jobs then as now. Also, even if an outline budget had been agreed doesn't mean it's still ok to spend such an amount on what is clearly an extravagant fire escape. Please don't blame the Tories for the money spent under your watch Mr Davies. Given this staircase is only for emergency use, it looks very grand and is clearly another public relations gaffe of enormous proportions. I suggest another look a your PR strategy is in order,
More wriggling from the Labour Group. A budget may have been approved in 2011 but a lot has happened since then. People weren't losing their jobs then as now. Also, even if an outline budget had been agreed doesn't mean it's still ok to spend such an amount on what is clearly an extravagant fire escape. Please don't blame the Tories for the money spent under your watch Mr Davies. Given this staircase is only for emergency use, it looks very grand and is clearly another public relations gaffe of enormous proportions. I suggest another look a your PR strategy is in order, Joeblogg85

4:38pm Fri 29 Nov 13

PaulCa says...

ITWASNTME.GOV.UK
ITWASNTME.GOV.UK PaulCa

4:50pm Fri 29 Nov 13

WirralAl says...

To me it is irrelevant which of the red, blue or yellow 66 clowns gave the approval for this. It is far too much to spend when everything else is being cut back.

The whole lot of them are out of touch and have no concept of common sense.

Would we prefer that you have a nice hidden staircase or 10 years of Street lighting?
To me it is irrelevant which of the red, blue or yellow 66 clowns gave the approval for this. It is far too much to spend when everything else is being cut back. The whole lot of them are out of touch and have no concept of common sense. Would we prefer that you have a nice hidden staircase or 10 years of Street lighting? WirralAl

4:50pm Fri 29 Nov 13

Joeblogg85 says...

PaulCa wrote:
ITWASNTME.GOV.UK
Ha ha, it's the " Shaggy Defence" It wasn't me! Ha ha
[quote][p][bold]PaulCa[/bold] wrote: ITWASNTME.GOV.UK[/p][/quote]Ha ha, it's the " Shaggy Defence" It wasn't me! Ha ha Joeblogg85

5:25pm Fri 29 Nov 13

M_Burns says...

Joeblogg85 wrote:
More wriggling from the Labour Group. A budget may have been approved in 2011 but a lot has happened since then. People weren't losing their jobs then as now. Also, even if an outline budget had been agreed doesn't mean it's still ok to spend such an amount on what is clearly an extravagant fire escape. Please don't blame the Tories for the money spent under your watch Mr Davies. Given this staircase is only for emergency use, it looks very grand and is clearly another public relations gaffe of enormous proportions. I suggest another look a your PR strategy is in order,
People weren't losing their jobs in 2011? More jobs were lost then than at any time since! And it was done without a real plan at far higher cost compared to the severance pay of today.
[quote][p][bold]Joeblogg85[/bold] wrote: More wriggling from the Labour Group. A budget may have been approved in 2011 but a lot has happened since then. People weren't losing their jobs then as now. Also, even if an outline budget had been agreed doesn't mean it's still ok to spend such an amount on what is clearly an extravagant fire escape. Please don't blame the Tories for the money spent under your watch Mr Davies. Given this staircase is only for emergency use, it looks very grand and is clearly another public relations gaffe of enormous proportions. I suggest another look a your PR strategy is in order,[/p][/quote]People weren't losing their jobs in 2011? More jobs were lost then than at any time since! And it was done without a real plan at far higher cost compared to the severance pay of today. M_Burns

5:35pm Fri 29 Nov 13

PaulCa says...

How unusual........

Phil "Sherlock" Davies, magnifying glass in hand, deerstalker on head, has been intensively forensic, and poring over the historical record.

Usually you'll find he "can't remember", or "it was all a long time ago", or he wants everybody to "move forward", or he encourages us to "draw a line under it", or WE are "mistaken".

Or when £48k goes missing internally, he refers us to an email sent by the Chief Exec. (to which he has nothing to add)

But this time, it's a very, very different story.
How unusual........ Phil "Sherlock" Davies, magnifying glass in hand, deerstalker on head, has been intensively forensic, and poring over the historical record. Usually you'll find he "can't remember", or "it was all a long time ago", or he wants everybody to "move forward", or he encourages us to "draw a line under it", or WE are "mistaken". Or when £48k goes missing internally, he refers us to an email sent by the Chief Exec. (to which he has nothing to add) But this time, it's a very, very different story. PaulCa

5:57pm Fri 29 Nov 13

artemis81 says...

No-one is arguing about who's 'to blame'. The point is Cllr Lewis was trying to score a political point arguing about the 'sudden' appearance of this staircase (actually, there are two, plus a lift, plus lots of other related adaptations that have had to be made, but which have conveniently been overlooked in favour of a tasty soundbite about Downton Abbey) when in actual fact he was well aware of the need for this work and was part of the leadership that made the commitment to make a Capital investment in it. There were also numerous opportunities subsequently to question this, including opportunities to call decisions in, yet none were taken. This is clearly not an 'executive staircase', the complete set of works are functional, appropriate and essential, not extravagant. Anyone would think there isn't enough actual rubbish involving the Council for people to get their teeth into so a big deal is being made over this. Get real.
No-one is arguing about who's 'to blame'. The point is Cllr Lewis was trying to score a political point arguing about the 'sudden' appearance of this staircase (actually, there are two, plus a lift, plus lots of other related adaptations that have had to be made, but which have conveniently been overlooked in favour of a tasty soundbite about Downton Abbey) when in actual fact he was well aware of the need for this work and was part of the leadership that made the commitment to make a Capital investment in it. There were also numerous opportunities subsequently to question this, including opportunities to call decisions in, yet none were taken. This is clearly not an 'executive staircase', the complete set of works are functional, appropriate and essential, not extravagant. Anyone would think there isn't enough actual rubbish involving the Council for people to get their teeth into so a big deal is being made over this. Get real. artemis81

5:58pm Fri 29 Nov 13

reliant22 says...

PaulCa wrote:
How unusual........

Phil "Sherlock" Davies, magnifying glass in hand, deerstalker on head, has been intensively forensic, and poring over the historical record.

Usually you'll find he "can't remember", or "it was all a long time ago", or he wants everybody to "move forward", or he encourages us to "draw a line under it", or WE are "mistaken".

Or when £48k goes missing internally, he refers us to an email sent by the Chief Exec. (to which he has nothing to add)

But this time, it's a very, very different story.
So did we really expect anything other than blaming each other.
It must be a worrying time for them; Local Election time is not that far away.
The Labour Group MUST have signed the order off anyway in 2012. I suppose they think we are all as daft as they are. Do we know whether tenders were invited and to whom and when was a contract awarded?

Answers if you know PaulCa or does it need a FOI application?
Cllr Phil must be nearing his term of office so he will be looking for votes, just like the rest of them.

WE can DEMOCRATICALLY, get rid of all of them.
Too many Party Politics and not enough care for the Borough and it`s residents they are supposed to serve.
[quote][p][bold]PaulCa[/bold] wrote: How unusual........ Phil "Sherlock" Davies, magnifying glass in hand, deerstalker on head, has been intensively forensic, and poring over the historical record. Usually you'll find he "can't remember", or "it was all a long time ago", or he wants everybody to "move forward", or he encourages us to "draw a line under it", or WE are "mistaken". Or when £48k goes missing internally, he refers us to an email sent by the Chief Exec. (to which he has nothing to add) But this time, it's a very, very different story.[/p][/quote]So did we really expect anything other than blaming each other. It must be a worrying time for them; Local Election time is not that far away. The Labour Group MUST have signed the order off anyway in 2012. I suppose they think we are all as daft as they are. Do we know whether tenders were invited and to whom and when was a contract awarded? Answers if you know PaulCa or does it need a FOI application? Cllr Phil must be nearing his term of office so he will be looking for votes, just like the rest of them. WE can DEMOCRATICALLY, get rid of all of them. Too many Party Politics and not enough care for the Borough and it`s residents they are supposed to serve. reliant22

5:59pm Fri 29 Nov 13

artemis81 says...

PaulCa wrote:
How unusual........

Phil "Sherlock" Davies, magnifying glass in hand, deerstalker on head, has been intensively forensic, and poring over the historical record.

Usually you'll find he "can't remember", or "it was all a long time ago", or he wants everybody to "move forward", or he encourages us to "draw a line under it", or WE are "mistaken".

Or when £48k goes missing internally, he refers us to an email sent by the Chief Exec. (to which he has nothing to add)

But this time, it's a very, very different story.
It is a different story altogether... look, it's got a different headline entirely. Change the record, you massive massive spanner.
[quote][p][bold]PaulCa[/bold] wrote: How unusual........ Phil "Sherlock" Davies, magnifying glass in hand, deerstalker on head, has been intensively forensic, and poring over the historical record. Usually you'll find he "can't remember", or "it was all a long time ago", or he wants everybody to "move forward", or he encourages us to "draw a line under it", or WE are "mistaken". Or when £48k goes missing internally, he refers us to an email sent by the Chief Exec. (to which he has nothing to add) But this time, it's a very, very different story.[/p][/quote]It is a different story altogether... look, it's got a different headline entirely. Change the record, you massive massive spanner. artemis81

6:02pm Fri 29 Nov 13

artemis81 says...

reliant22 wrote:
PaulCa wrote:
How unusual........

Phil "Sherlock" Davies, magnifying glass in hand, deerstalker on head, has been intensively forensic, and poring over the historical record.

Usually you'll find he "can't remember", or "it was all a long time ago", or he wants everybody to "move forward", or he encourages us to "draw a line under it", or WE are "mistaken".

Or when £48k goes missing internally, he refers us to an email sent by the Chief Exec. (to which he has nothing to add)

But this time, it's a very, very different story.
So did we really expect anything other than blaming each other.
It must be a worrying time for them; Local Election time is not that far away.
The Labour Group MUST have signed the order off anyway in 2012. I suppose they think we are all as daft as they are. Do we know whether tenders were invited and to whom and when was a contract awarded?

Answers if you know PaulCa or does it need a FOI application?
Cllr Phil must be nearing his term of office so he will be looking for votes, just like the rest of them.

WE can DEMOCRATICALLY, get rid of all of them.
Too many Party Politics and not enough care for the Borough and it`s residents they are supposed to serve.
Are you deliberately not understanding the facts, or are willing showing yourself up to be a buffoon? No-one is apportioning blame, the Labour group have 'signed off the order' (whatever that means) or approved the plans. That's because the works are essential. The point being made is that the Tories know the work was essential because they committed the money themselves yet are now trying to pretend it is something a) that it isn't and b) that they knew nothing about it. Pathetic.
[quote][p][bold]reliant22[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]PaulCa[/bold] wrote: How unusual........ Phil "Sherlock" Davies, magnifying glass in hand, deerstalker on head, has been intensively forensic, and poring over the historical record. Usually you'll find he "can't remember", or "it was all a long time ago", or he wants everybody to "move forward", or he encourages us to "draw a line under it", or WE are "mistaken". Or when £48k goes missing internally, he refers us to an email sent by the Chief Exec. (to which he has nothing to add) But this time, it's a very, very different story.[/p][/quote]So did we really expect anything other than blaming each other. It must be a worrying time for them; Local Election time is not that far away. The Labour Group MUST have signed the order off anyway in 2012. I suppose they think we are all as daft as they are. Do we know whether tenders were invited and to whom and when was a contract awarded? Answers if you know PaulCa or does it need a FOI application? Cllr Phil must be nearing his term of office so he will be looking for votes, just like the rest of them. WE can DEMOCRATICALLY, get rid of all of them. Too many Party Politics and not enough care for the Borough and it`s residents they are supposed to serve.[/p][/quote]Are you deliberately not understanding the facts, or are willing showing yourself up to be a buffoon? No-one is apportioning blame, the Labour group have 'signed off the order' (whatever that means) or approved the plans. That's because the works are essential. The point being made is that the Tories know the work was essential because they committed the money themselves yet are now trying to pretend it is something a) that it isn't and b) that they knew nothing about it. Pathetic. artemis81

7:23pm Fri 29 Nov 13

keen gardener says...

No.1....I have no "political persuasion".
No.2....when "one political persuasion takes over from another" surely what has previously been approved is reviewed?
No.3...economic climate/budget revisions ongoing...surely to goodness this is regularly taken into account?
No.4....what was agreed/affordable in 2011 may well be "unaffordable" in 2013! Rocket science - think not!!!

For goodness sake "Wirral" get your act together before all is lost to "Liverpool"

This is so...so...SAD
No.1....I have no "political persuasion". No.2....when "one political persuasion takes over from another" surely what has previously been approved is reviewed? No.3...economic climate/budget revisions ongoing...surely to goodness this is regularly taken into account? No.4....what was agreed/affordable in 2011 may well be "unaffordable" in 2013! Rocket science - think not!!! For goodness sake "Wirral" get your act together before all is lost to "Liverpool" This is so...so...SAD keen gardener

7:49pm Fri 29 Nov 13

MDRyUK says...

keen gardener wrote:
No.1....I have no "political persuasion".
No.2....when "one political persuasion takes over from another" surely what has previously been approved is reviewed?
No.3...economic climate/budget revisions ongoing...surely to goodness this is regularly taken into account?
No.4....what was agreed/affordable in 2011 may well be "unaffordable" in 2013! Rocket science - think not!!!

For goodness sake "Wirral" get your act together before all is lost to "Liverpool"

This is so...so...SAD
Well, oh well oh well - it's a bit like "Punch and Judy" party politics at the town hall once again; sadly nothing really has changed at Wallasey Town Hall despite enormous claims to the contrary!
[quote][p][bold]keen gardener[/bold] wrote: No.1....I have no "political persuasion". No.2....when "one political persuasion takes over from another" surely what has previously been approved is reviewed? No.3...economic climate/budget revisions ongoing...surely to goodness this is regularly taken into account? No.4....what was agreed/affordable in 2011 may well be "unaffordable" in 2013! Rocket science - think not!!! For goodness sake "Wirral" get your act together before all is lost to "Liverpool" This is so...so...SAD[/p][/quote]Well, oh well oh well - it's a bit like "Punch and Judy" party politics at the town hall once again; sadly nothing really has changed at Wallasey Town Hall despite enormous claims to the contrary! MDRyUK

9:01pm Fri 29 Nov 13

Llamedos 1 says...

And it never will change whist the apathetic electorate keep voting in the Party Political animals (sorry to insult the animals) but the answer is in the hands of the electorate.....its not rocket science
And it never will change whist the apathetic electorate keep voting in the Party Political animals (sorry to insult the animals) but the answer is in the hands of the electorate.....its not rocket science Llamedos 1

9:57pm Fri 29 Nov 13

reliant22 says...

artemis81 wrote:
reliant22 wrote:
PaulCa wrote:
How unusual........

Phil "Sherlock" Davies, magnifying glass in hand, deerstalker on head, has been intensively forensic, and poring over the historical record.

Usually you'll find he "can't remember", or "it was all a long time ago", or he wants everybody to "move forward", or he encourages us to "draw a line under it", or WE are "mistaken".

Or when £48k goes missing internally, he refers us to an email sent by the Chief Exec. (to which he has nothing to add)

But this time, it's a very, very different story.
So did we really expect anything other than blaming each other.
It must be a worrying time for them; Local Election time is not that far away.
The Labour Group MUST have signed the order off anyway in 2012. I suppose they think we are all as daft as they are. Do we know whether tenders were invited and to whom and when was a contract awarded?

Answers if you know PaulCa or does it need a FOI application?
Cllr Phil must be nearing his term of office so he will be looking for votes, just like the rest of them.

WE can DEMOCRATICALLY, get rid of all of them.
Too many Party Politics and not enough care for the Borough and it`s residents they are supposed to serve.
Are you deliberately not understanding the facts, or are willing showing yourself up to be a buffoon? No-one is apportioning blame, the Labour group have 'signed off the order' (whatever that means) or approved the plans. That's because the works are essential. The point being made is that the Tories know the work was essential because they committed the money themselves yet are now trying to pretend it is something a) that it isn't and b) that they knew nothing about it. Pathetic.
Hit the right spot with our comments as far as `artemis81` is concerned?

Labour colours shining through.........hmmm Cllr who?
However, if Labour leadership at the Town Hall (as you claim) is so good, why is it all going so wrong/? THUS the recent Improvement Board intervention>
Artemis81, you nee to wake up and ....................
.
[quote][p][bold]artemis81[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]reliant22[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]PaulCa[/bold] wrote: How unusual........ Phil "Sherlock" Davies, magnifying glass in hand, deerstalker on head, has been intensively forensic, and poring over the historical record. Usually you'll find he "can't remember", or "it was all a long time ago", or he wants everybody to "move forward", or he encourages us to "draw a line under it", or WE are "mistaken". Or when £48k goes missing internally, he refers us to an email sent by the Chief Exec. (to which he has nothing to add) But this time, it's a very, very different story.[/p][/quote]So did we really expect anything other than blaming each other. It must be a worrying time for them; Local Election time is not that far away. The Labour Group MUST have signed the order off anyway in 2012. I suppose they think we are all as daft as they are. Do we know whether tenders were invited and to whom and when was a contract awarded? Answers if you know PaulCa or does it need a FOI application? Cllr Phil must be nearing his term of office so he will be looking for votes, just like the rest of them. WE can DEMOCRATICALLY, get rid of all of them. Too many Party Politics and not enough care for the Borough and it`s residents they are supposed to serve.[/p][/quote]Are you deliberately not understanding the facts, or are willing showing yourself up to be a buffoon? No-one is apportioning blame, the Labour group have 'signed off the order' (whatever that means) or approved the plans. That's because the works are essential. The point being made is that the Tories know the work was essential because they committed the money themselves yet are now trying to pretend it is something a) that it isn't and b) that they knew nothing about it. Pathetic.[/p][/quote]Hit the right spot with our comments as far as `artemis81` is concerned? Labour colours shining through.........hmmm Cllr who? However, if Labour leadership at the Town Hall (as you claim) is so good, why is it all going so wrong/? THUS the recent Improvement Board intervention> Artemis81, you nee to wake up and .................... . reliant22

10:33pm Fri 29 Nov 13

Joeblogg85 says...

M_Burns wrote:
Joeblogg85 wrote:
More wriggling from the Labour Group. A budget may have been approved in 2011 but a lot has happened since then. People weren't losing their jobs then as now. Also, even if an outline budget had been agreed doesn't mean it's still ok to spend such an amount on what is clearly an extravagant fire escape. Please don't blame the Tories for the money spent under your watch Mr Davies. Given this staircase is only for emergency use, it looks very grand and is clearly another public relations gaffe of enormous proportions. I suggest another look a your PR strategy is in order,
People weren't losing their jobs in 2011? More jobs were lost then than at any time since! And it was done without a real plan at far higher cost compared to the severance pay of today.
I apologise if I got my facts wrong M Burns. I bow to your greater knowledge. I thought the job losses started in 2012. All the best.
[quote][p][bold]M_Burns[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]Joeblogg85[/bold] wrote: More wriggling from the Labour Group. A budget may have been approved in 2011 but a lot has happened since then. People weren't losing their jobs then as now. Also, even if an outline budget had been agreed doesn't mean it's still ok to spend such an amount on what is clearly an extravagant fire escape. Please don't blame the Tories for the money spent under your watch Mr Davies. Given this staircase is only for emergency use, it looks very grand and is clearly another public relations gaffe of enormous proportions. I suggest another look a your PR strategy is in order,[/p][/quote]People weren't losing their jobs in 2011? More jobs were lost then than at any time since! And it was done without a real plan at far higher cost compared to the severance pay of today.[/p][/quote]I apologise if I got my facts wrong M Burns. I bow to your greater knowledge. I thought the job losses started in 2012. All the best. Joeblogg85

10:52pm Fri 29 Nov 13

artemis81 says...

reliant22 wrote:
artemis81 wrote:
reliant22 wrote:
PaulCa wrote:
How unusual........

Phil "Sherlock" Davies, magnifying glass in hand, deerstalker on head, has been intensively forensic, and poring over the historical record.

Usually you'll find he "can't remember", or "it was all a long time ago", or he wants everybody to "move forward", or he encourages us to "draw a line under it", or WE are "mistaken".

Or when £48k goes missing internally, he refers us to an email sent by the Chief Exec. (to which he has nothing to add)

But this time, it's a very, very different story.
So did we really expect anything other than blaming each other.
It must be a worrying time for them; Local Election time is not that far away.
The Labour Group MUST have signed the order off anyway in 2012. I suppose they think we are all as daft as they are. Do we know whether tenders were invited and to whom and when was a contract awarded?

Answers if you know PaulCa or does it need a FOI application?
Cllr Phil must be nearing his term of office so he will be looking for votes, just like the rest of them.

WE can DEMOCRATICALLY, get rid of all of them.
Too many Party Politics and not enough care for the Borough and it`s residents they are supposed to serve.
Are you deliberately not understanding the facts, or are willing showing yourself up to be a buffoon? No-one is apportioning blame, the Labour group have 'signed off the order' (whatever that means) or approved the plans. That's because the works are essential. The point being made is that the Tories know the work was essential because they committed the money themselves yet are now trying to pretend it is something a) that it isn't and b) that they knew nothing about it. Pathetic.
Hit the right spot with our comments as far as `artemis81` is concerned?

Labour colours shining through.........hmmm Cllr who?
However, if Labour leadership at the Town Hall (as you claim) is so good, why is it all going so wrong/? THUS the recent Improvement Board intervention>
Artemis81, you nee to wake up and ....................

.
Councillor? Me? Hahahahahaha... miles away. But that sums this little 'community' up, any voice that even remotely deviates from the conspiracy theories and general Council bashing is immediately dismissed. It's like a cult.

Incidentally, please point out where I suggested the current Council leadership was any good at all? The only points I have to make on this issue is that the work on the Town Hall is essential, not the extravagant money-wasting exercise that is being suggested, and that all parties on the Council know that, which is why every time it has been on agendas for the last three and more years it has been approved without dissention.

No conspiracy, no empire building, no over-extravagance, no cutting corners, no dodgy deals, no misappropriation of funds, no rip-off - just essential works to comply with building and listed building regs, fire safety and equality legislation. Sorry if that's so hard for you to take.
[quote][p][bold]reliant22[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]artemis81[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]reliant22[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]PaulCa[/bold] wrote: How unusual........ Phil "Sherlock" Davies, magnifying glass in hand, deerstalker on head, has been intensively forensic, and poring over the historical record. Usually you'll find he "can't remember", or "it was all a long time ago", or he wants everybody to "move forward", or he encourages us to "draw a line under it", or WE are "mistaken". Or when £48k goes missing internally, he refers us to an email sent by the Chief Exec. (to which he has nothing to add) But this time, it's a very, very different story.[/p][/quote]So did we really expect anything other than blaming each other. It must be a worrying time for them; Local Election time is not that far away. The Labour Group MUST have signed the order off anyway in 2012. I suppose they think we are all as daft as they are. Do we know whether tenders were invited and to whom and when was a contract awarded? Answers if you know PaulCa or does it need a FOI application? Cllr Phil must be nearing his term of office so he will be looking for votes, just like the rest of them. WE can DEMOCRATICALLY, get rid of all of them. Too many Party Politics and not enough care for the Borough and it`s residents they are supposed to serve.[/p][/quote]Are you deliberately not understanding the facts, or are willing showing yourself up to be a buffoon? No-one is apportioning blame, the Labour group have 'signed off the order' (whatever that means) or approved the plans. That's because the works are essential. The point being made is that the Tories know the work was essential because they committed the money themselves yet are now trying to pretend it is something a) that it isn't and b) that they knew nothing about it. Pathetic.[/p][/quote]Hit the right spot with our comments as far as `artemis81` is concerned? Labour colours shining through.........hmmm Cllr who? However, if Labour leadership at the Town Hall (as you claim) is so good, why is it all going so wrong/? THUS the recent Improvement Board intervention> Artemis81, you nee to wake up and .................... .[/p][/quote]Councillor? Me? Hahahahahaha... miles away. But that sums this little 'community' up, any voice that even remotely deviates from the conspiracy theories and general Council bashing is immediately dismissed. It's like a cult. Incidentally, please point out where I suggested the current Council leadership was any good at all? The only points I have to make on this issue is that the work on the Town Hall is essential, not the extravagant money-wasting exercise that is being suggested, and that all parties on the Council know that, which is why every time it has been on agendas for the last three and more years it has been approved without dissention. No conspiracy, no empire building, no over-extravagance, no cutting corners, no dodgy deals, no misappropriation of funds, no rip-off - just essential works to comply with building and listed building regs, fire safety and equality legislation. Sorry if that's so hard for you to take. artemis81

8:12am Sat 30 Nov 13

JohnON says...

It's about time the council was run as a business by businessmen rather than by a Dad's Army playing at politics.

Personally, I couldn't care less who is in charge of looking after OUR money but I doubt anybody could make a worse job of it than we're seeing of late.

Money squandered left, right and centre on things that could wait while essential services from meals on wheels to street lighting are getting the chop.

Message to the council: STOP PLAYING POLITICS. STOP THINKING OF YOURSELVES, STOP BLAMING EVERYONE ELSE.

GROW UP.
It's about time the council was run as a business by businessmen rather than by a Dad's Army playing at politics. Personally, I couldn't care less who is in charge of looking after OUR money but I doubt anybody could make a worse job of it than we're seeing of late. Money squandered left, right and centre on things that could wait while essential services from meals on wheels to street lighting are getting the chop. Message to the council: STOP PLAYING POLITICS. STOP THINKING OF YOURSELVES, STOP BLAMING EVERYONE ELSE. GROW UP. JohnON

10:25am Sat 30 Nov 13

MrAngryBebington says...

Good to see the Wirral politicians are still fighting about important strategic issues like a fire escape!! My god, what about jobs, investment and training for the people of Wirral?
Good to see the Wirral politicians are still fighting about important strategic issues like a fire escape!! My god, what about jobs, investment and training for the people of Wirral? MrAngryBebington

10:58am Sat 30 Nov 13

PaulCa says...

artemis81 wrote:
reliant22 wrote:
artemis81 wrote:
reliant22 wrote:
PaulCa wrote:
How unusual........

Phil "Sherlock" Davies, magnifying glass in hand, deerstalker on head, has been intensively forensic, and poring over the historical record.

Usually you'll find he "can't remember", or "it was all a long time ago", or he wants everybody to "move forward", or he encourages us to "draw a line under it", or WE are "mistaken".

Or when £48k goes missing internally, he refers us to an email sent by the Chief Exec. (to which he has nothing to add)

But this time, it's a very, very different story.
So did we really expect anything other than blaming each other.
It must be a worrying time for them; Local Election time is not that far away.
The Labour Group MUST have signed the order off anyway in 2012. I suppose they think we are all as daft as they are. Do we know whether tenders were invited and to whom and when was a contract awarded?

Answers if you know PaulCa or does it need a FOI application?
Cllr Phil must be nearing his term of office so he will be looking for votes, just like the rest of them.

WE can DEMOCRATICALLY, get rid of all of them.
Too many Party Politics and not enough care for the Borough and it`s residents they are supposed to serve.
Are you deliberately not understanding the facts, or are willing showing yourself up to be a buffoon? No-one is apportioning blame, the Labour group have 'signed off the order' (whatever that means) or approved the plans. That's because the works are essential. The point being made is that the Tories know the work was essential because they committed the money themselves yet are now trying to pretend it is something a) that it isn't and b) that they knew nothing about it. Pathetic.
Hit the right spot with our comments as far as `artemis81` is concerned?

Labour colours shining through.........hmmm Cllr who?
However, if Labour leadership at the Town Hall (as you claim) is so good, why is it all going so wrong/? THUS the recent Improvement Board intervention>
Artemis81, you nee to wake up and ....................


.
Councillor? Me? Hahahahahaha... miles away. But that sums this little 'community' up, any voice that even remotely deviates from the conspiracy theories and general Council bashing is immediately dismissed. It's like a cult.

Incidentally, please point out where I suggested the current Council leadership was any good at all? The only points I have to make on this issue is that the work on the Town Hall is essential, not the extravagant money-wasting exercise that is being suggested, and that all parties on the Council know that, which is why every time it has been on agendas for the last three and more years it has been approved without dissention.

No conspiracy, no empire building, no over-extravagance, no cutting corners, no dodgy deals, no misappropriation of funds, no rip-off - just essential works to comply with building and listed building regs, fire safety and equality legislation. Sorry if that's so hard for you to take.
Artemis81

"Conspiracy theories and general council bashing".

Hahaha indeed.

Tell that to Martin Morton, or Andy Campbell, or Gary Downey or about a dozen people I personally know who have been and are being treated abominably..... with their working and family lives, and their mental health blighted by the back room, unscrutinised, crooked behaviour of these people. They're still engaged in pretty much a "free for all"... and being rewarded in public money for it. Because there IS no deterrent.

It's called Cause and Effect. You betray the people you serve and you take the consequences (which sadly seems to be "Carry on as Abnormal"). If you choose to interpret all this as "magicked from thin air" despite the evidence before you, that's your option. Pathetic as it is.

Like peeing in the wind, the comments we make here are hardly "Accountability". No, any remote chance of bringing the villains to book has been deliberately sidelined by this self-appointed LGA "Improvement" Board.... the one which has omitted all mention of bullying and abuses from its latest report. Hence the frustration felt right across Wirral. These public comments, which feel like the only recourse open to many people, were all INVITED, over many, many years.

Johnny come latelies, with knowledge gaps, and a low satisfaction threshold, or with their own private, unstated reasons for trusting this organisation, will be served well by the likes of Joyce Redfearn, who btw had a hand in "improving" this council, before this happened:

http://tinyurl.com/o
ccbmcn

...Unlike yourself, with the ability to pass by on the other side, those of us who take issue with:

o bullying
o mobbing
o forcing out of whistleblowers
o contract impropriety
o thievery
o protection of crooked service providers
o abuse of our vulnerable friends and family members
o the cover up of all the above

....or generally having their pockets picked month in, month out, ad infinitum.... will speak up..... and keep speaking up loudly and clearly.
[quote][p][bold]artemis81[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]reliant22[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]artemis81[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]reliant22[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]PaulCa[/bold] wrote: How unusual........ Phil "Sherlock" Davies, magnifying glass in hand, deerstalker on head, has been intensively forensic, and poring over the historical record. Usually you'll find he "can't remember", or "it was all a long time ago", or he wants everybody to "move forward", or he encourages us to "draw a line under it", or WE are "mistaken". Or when £48k goes missing internally, he refers us to an email sent by the Chief Exec. (to which he has nothing to add) But this time, it's a very, very different story.[/p][/quote]So did we really expect anything other than blaming each other. It must be a worrying time for them; Local Election time is not that far away. The Labour Group MUST have signed the order off anyway in 2012. I suppose they think we are all as daft as they are. Do we know whether tenders were invited and to whom and when was a contract awarded? Answers if you know PaulCa or does it need a FOI application? Cllr Phil must be nearing his term of office so he will be looking for votes, just like the rest of them. WE can DEMOCRATICALLY, get rid of all of them. Too many Party Politics and not enough care for the Borough and it`s residents they are supposed to serve.[/p][/quote]Are you deliberately not understanding the facts, or are willing showing yourself up to be a buffoon? No-one is apportioning blame, the Labour group have 'signed off the order' (whatever that means) or approved the plans. That's because the works are essential. The point being made is that the Tories know the work was essential because they committed the money themselves yet are now trying to pretend it is something a) that it isn't and b) that they knew nothing about it. Pathetic.[/p][/quote]Hit the right spot with our comments as far as `artemis81` is concerned? Labour colours shining through.........hmmm Cllr who? However, if Labour leadership at the Town Hall (as you claim) is so good, why is it all going so wrong/? THUS the recent Improvement Board intervention> Artemis81, you nee to wake up and .................... .[/p][/quote]Councillor? Me? Hahahahahaha... miles away. But that sums this little 'community' up, any voice that even remotely deviates from the conspiracy theories and general Council bashing is immediately dismissed. It's like a cult. Incidentally, please point out where I suggested the current Council leadership was any good at all? The only points I have to make on this issue is that the work on the Town Hall is essential, not the extravagant money-wasting exercise that is being suggested, and that all parties on the Council know that, which is why every time it has been on agendas for the last three and more years it has been approved without dissention. No conspiracy, no empire building, no over-extravagance, no cutting corners, no dodgy deals, no misappropriation of funds, no rip-off - just essential works to comply with building and listed building regs, fire safety and equality legislation. Sorry if that's so hard for you to take.[/p][/quote][bold]Artemis81[/bold] "Conspiracy theories and general council bashing". Hahaha indeed. Tell that to Martin Morton, or Andy Campbell, or Gary Downey or about a dozen people I personally know who have been and are being treated abominably..... with their working and family lives, and their mental health blighted by the back room, unscrutinised, crooked behaviour of these people. They're still engaged in pretty much a "free for all"... and being rewarded in public money for it. Because there IS no deterrent. It's called Cause and Effect. You betray the people you serve and you take the consequences (which sadly seems to be "Carry on as Abnormal"). If you choose to interpret all this as "magicked from thin air" despite the evidence before you, that's your option. Pathetic as it is. Like peeing in the wind, the comments we make here are hardly "Accountability". No, any remote chance of bringing the villains to book has been deliberately sidelined by this self-appointed LGA "Improvement" Board.... the one which has omitted all mention of bullying and abuses from its latest report. Hence the frustration felt right across Wirral. These public comments, which feel like the only recourse open to many people, were all INVITED, over many, many years. Johnny come latelies, with knowledge gaps, and a low satisfaction threshold, or with their own private, unstated reasons for trusting this organisation, will be served well by the likes of Joyce Redfearn, who btw had a hand in "improving" this council, before this happened: http://tinyurl.com/o ccbmcn ...Unlike yourself, with the ability to pass by on the other side, those of us who take issue with: o bullying o mobbing o forcing out of whistleblowers o contract impropriety o thievery o protection of crooked service providers o abuse of our vulnerable friends and family members o the cover up of all the above ....or generally having their pockets picked month in, month out, ad infinitum.... will speak up..... and keep speaking up loudly and clearly. PaulCa

6:21pm Sat 30 Nov 13

Joeblogg85 says...

JohnON wrote:
It's about time the council was run as a business by businessmen rather than by a Dad's Army playing at politics.

Personally, I couldn't care less who is in charge of looking after OUR money but I doubt anybody could make a worse job of it than we're seeing of late.

Money squandered left, right and centre on things that could wait while essential services from meals on wheels to street lighting are getting the chop.

Message to the council: STOP PLAYING POLITICS. STOP THINKING OF YOURSELVES, STOP BLAMING EVERYONE ELSE.

GROW UP.
This is a very valid point. Instead of always either promoting from within or from another Council, why don't the Council look to the business community for its next senior officer appointment. Wirral always gets someone from another local Council who inevitably bring along their cronies with them. We need a business person who treats the Council as such.
[quote][p][bold]JohnON[/bold] wrote: It's about time the council was run as a business by businessmen rather than by a Dad's Army playing at politics. Personally, I couldn't care less who is in charge of looking after OUR money but I doubt anybody could make a worse job of it than we're seeing of late. Money squandered left, right and centre on things that could wait while essential services from meals on wheels to street lighting are getting the chop. Message to the council: STOP PLAYING POLITICS. STOP THINKING OF YOURSELVES, STOP BLAMING EVERYONE ELSE. GROW UP.[/p][/quote]This is a very valid point. Instead of always either promoting from within or from another Council, why don't the Council look to the business community for its next senior officer appointment. Wirral always gets someone from another local Council who inevitably bring along their cronies with them. We need a business person who treats the Council as such. Joeblogg85

7:05pm Sat 30 Nov 13

PaulCa says...

Joeblogg85 wrote:
JohnON wrote:
It's about time the council was run as a business by businessmen rather than by a Dad's Army playing at politics.

Personally, I couldn't care less who is in charge of looking after OUR money but I doubt anybody could make a worse job of it than we're seeing of late.

Money squandered left, right and centre on things that could wait while essential services from meals on wheels to street lighting are getting the chop.

Message to the council: STOP PLAYING POLITICS. STOP THINKING OF YOURSELVES, STOP BLAMING EVERYONE ELSE.

GROW UP.
This is a very valid point. Instead of always either promoting from within or from another Council, why don't the Council look to the business community for its next senior officer appointment. Wirral always gets someone from another local Council who inevitably bring along their cronies with them. We need a business person who treats the Council as such.
Great post. And very timely. The CEO of #QuackCWaC (Cheshire West & Chester Council) - bloke with the glasses - can't remember his name, such was his impact on #QuackCWaC employees - came from Stoke City Council back in 2009, and sure enough, his acolytes followed in their droves or were poached very quickly after.

Great news for the people of Stoke - they got rid - but not so good for the people of Cheshire West.

And pretty soon, "CoSocius" which is the 3 pronged private company paid for WITH YOUR MONEY, but WITHOUT any public responsibility, will be spreading its tentacles across us, headed up by bloke with glasses, Burgess, and the CEO of Cheshire East Council.
[quote][p][bold]Joeblogg85[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]JohnON[/bold] wrote: It's about time the council was run as a business by businessmen rather than by a Dad's Army playing at politics. Personally, I couldn't care less who is in charge of looking after OUR money but I doubt anybody could make a worse job of it than we're seeing of late. Money squandered left, right and centre on things that could wait while essential services from meals on wheels to street lighting are getting the chop. Message to the council: STOP PLAYING POLITICS. STOP THINKING OF YOURSELVES, STOP BLAMING EVERYONE ELSE. GROW UP.[/p][/quote]This is a very valid point. Instead of always either promoting from within or from another Council, why don't the Council look to the business community for its next senior officer appointment. Wirral always gets someone from another local Council who inevitably bring along their cronies with them. We need a business person who treats the Council as such.[/p][/quote]Great post. And very timely. The CEO of #QuackCWaC (Cheshire West & Chester Council) - bloke with the glasses - can't remember his name, such was his impact on #QuackCWaC employees - came from Stoke City Council back in 2009, and sure enough, his acolytes followed in their droves or were poached very quickly after. Great news for the people of Stoke - they got rid - but not so good for the people of Cheshire West. And pretty soon, "CoSocius" which is the 3 pronged private company paid for WITH YOUR MONEY, but WITHOUT any public responsibility, will be spreading its tentacles across us, headed up by bloke with glasses, Burgess, and the CEO of Cheshire East Council. PaulCa

7:40pm Sat 30 Nov 13

Cloud 23 says...

PaulCa I think you and your very small group of cronies on here are so cynical that you can't actually take a balanced view of any council related article. The automatic assumption is conspiracy, curruption or **** up no matter what. Whilst you will say thats because of the council's record and thats perhaps understandable, its still very blinkered to only ever have one perspective on anything. It makes you lack any credibity or relevance as you just attack everything. Its also really boring. As Artemis81 says this issue is not really a big deal. Why the hell shouldn't the town hall be a safe and accessible building for all who work or attend events there? I think Lewis is taking a very cheap shot here.
PaulCa I think you and your very small group of cronies on here are so cynical that you can't actually take a balanced view of any council related article. The automatic assumption is conspiracy, curruption or **** up no matter what. Whilst you will say thats because of the council's record and thats perhaps understandable, its still very blinkered to only ever have one perspective on anything. It makes you lack any credibity or relevance as you just attack everything. Its also really boring. As Artemis81 says this issue is not really a big deal. Why the hell shouldn't the town hall be a safe and accessible building for all who work or attend events there? I think Lewis is taking a very cheap shot here. Cloud 23

7:53pm Sat 30 Nov 13

PaulCa says...

Cloud 23 wrote:
PaulCa I think you and your very small group of cronies on here are so cynical that you can't actually take a balanced view of any council related article. The automatic assumption is conspiracy, curruption or **** up no matter what. Whilst you will say thats because of the council's record and thats perhaps understandable, its still very blinkered to only ever have one perspective on anything. It makes you lack any credibity or relevance as you just attack everything. Its also really boring. As Artemis81 says this issue is not really a big deal. Why the hell shouldn't the town hall be a safe and accessible building for all who work or attend events there? I think Lewis is taking a very cheap shot here.
I don't have any "cronies".
Are you mixing me up with Frank Field, or possibly Steve Foulkes or Jeff Green? They have plenty. I'm pretty much apolitical - so don't tend to attract brown noses and acolytes.
And I DO take a balanced view. Always have done, but the scales have been shifted WAY out of kilter by the abusers here. As I say, I know a small number of people who've had their lives wrecked. I project from that figure and deduce that a council we know to still be failing (check its public record) has been long in the business of destroying many more people than the small number I know.

I'm a scientific observer, who goes not on hunches but facts. Grisly facts in this case. I suggest, as well as reading the copious articles on Wirral Council scandal in the Wirral Globe, you read some of the very informative blogs that have popped up. Here you'll find even MORE evidence of the welter of abuse that has been, and is still being dished out by a collection of individuals who KNOW they are above any form of reckoning. And this is because, apart from the FACT they have no external investigations policy or procedure (an open door for anyone to be waved through to investigate):

Smith never brought it.
Klonowski never brought it.
Penn never brought it.
Grant Thornton never brought it.
Vickers never brought it.
Redfearn never brought it.

.....so on they go, deeper and deeper, spiralling ever downwards, because there's absolutely nothing to stop them. I'm a passive cynic, who tries to expose.

They are active ones ....who destroy.
[quote][p][bold]Cloud 23[/bold] wrote: PaulCa I think you and your very small group of cronies on here are so cynical that you can't actually take a balanced view of any council related article. The automatic assumption is conspiracy, curruption or **** up no matter what. Whilst you will say thats because of the council's record and thats perhaps understandable, its still very blinkered to only ever have one perspective on anything. It makes you lack any credibity or relevance as you just attack everything. Its also really boring. As Artemis81 says this issue is not really a big deal. Why the hell shouldn't the town hall be a safe and accessible building for all who work or attend events there? I think Lewis is taking a very cheap shot here.[/p][/quote]I don't have any "cronies". Are you mixing me up with Frank Field, or possibly Steve Foulkes or Jeff Green? They have plenty. I'm pretty much apolitical - so don't tend to attract brown noses and acolytes. And I DO take a balanced view. Always have done, but the scales have been shifted WAY out of kilter by the abusers here. As I say, I know a small number of people who've had their lives wrecked. I project from that figure and deduce that a council we know to still be failing (check its public record) has been long in the business of destroying many more people than the small number I know. I'm a scientific observer, who goes not on hunches but facts. Grisly facts in this case. I suggest, as well as reading the copious articles on Wirral Council scandal in the Wirral Globe, you read some of the very informative blogs that have popped up. Here you'll find even MORE evidence of the welter of abuse that has been, and is still being dished out by a collection of individuals who KNOW they are above any form of reckoning. And this is because, apart from the FACT they have no external investigations policy or procedure (an open door for anyone to be waved through to investigate): Smith never brought it. Klonowski never brought it. Penn never brought it. Grant Thornton never brought it. Vickers never brought it. Redfearn never brought it. .....so on they go, deeper and deeper, spiralling ever downwards, because there's absolutely nothing to stop them. I'm a passive cynic, who tries to expose. They are active ones ....who destroy. PaulCa

8:29pm Sat 30 Nov 13

Cloud 23 says...

That's just it. They bring in external investigators but you never accept the outcome because it doesn't say what you want. So all 6 people/organisations are wrong but you are right because you always know better than everyone else hey. Even when you dont have all the facts they have. Its arrogance beyond belief. You then try and find ways to discredit their independence. If is an internal investigation you see it as a stitch up and if its an external investigation you see it as a stitch up. Is it a legal requirement to have an external investigations policy? Do other organisations have them? I don't think so.
That's just it. They bring in external investigators but you never accept the outcome because it doesn't say what you want. So all 6 people/organisations are wrong but you are right because you always know better than everyone else hey. Even when you dont have all the facts they have. Its arrogance beyond belief. You then try and find ways to discredit their independence. If is an internal investigation you see it as a stitch up and if its an external investigation you see it as a stitch up. Is it a legal requirement to have an external investigations policy? Do other organisations have them? I don't think so. Cloud 23

8:41pm Sat 30 Nov 13

Llamedos 1 says...

Small group of cronies...I think the group of critics (or cronies as you choose to call them) is somewhat larger than you percieve and it is plainly obvious from the last 20 years of WBC`s history that the interested council tax paying electorate are the only people prepared to try and keep tabs on our hard earned council tax money. All the watchdog organisations supposedly monitoring councils cannot be trusted (as pointed out by a number of contributors to this site and in particular PaulCA). The fact that these "watchdogs" in general consist of ex council CEO`s and high ranking officers will give you some indication of their effectiveness. Additionally most of them roll up the same trouser leg as the existing council officers, so dont have a go at the council critics....they are trying to save your council tax money from being urinated up the wall
Small group of cronies...I think the group of critics (or cronies as you choose to call them) is somewhat larger than you percieve and it is plainly obvious from the last 20 years of WBC`s history that the interested council tax paying electorate are the only people prepared to try and keep tabs on our hard earned council tax money. All the watchdog organisations supposedly monitoring councils cannot be trusted (as pointed out by a number of contributors to this site and in particular PaulCA). The fact that these "watchdogs" in general consist of ex council CEO`s and high ranking officers will give you some indication of their effectiveness. Additionally most of them roll up the same trouser leg as the existing council officers, so dont have a go at the council critics....they are trying to save your council tax money from being urinated up the wall Llamedos 1

9:01pm Sat 30 Nov 13

PaulCa says...

Cloud 23 wrote:
That's just it. They bring in external investigators but you never accept the outcome because it doesn't say what you want. So all 6 people/organisations are wrong but you are right because you always know better than everyone else hey. Even when you dont have all the facts they have. Its arrogance beyond belief. You then try and find ways to discredit their independence. If is an internal investigation you see it as a stitch up and if its an external investigation you see it as a stitch up. Is it a legal requirement to have an external investigations policy? Do other organisations have them? I don't think so.
Er.... yes. Other organisations, including other local authorities closely connected to this one (e.g. #QuackCWaC) DO have external investigations policies and procedures.

It's an essential part of safeguarding and public oversight - and done in order to prevent - I'll nick one of your favourite words here - CRONIES... coming in and delivering exactly what you want under the pretense of "independence". e.g. Rob Vickers, who did 2 investigations, came up trumps and whose company now enjoys a host of work and banks a six figure payment from the council annually....

....yes, that's our cash he's got his mitts on.

Before self-exposing more chasms in your knowledge, read the ins and outs here. I've got better things to do than trot them all out again on a Saturday night, so off you go, there's a good chap. Run along:

http://wirralinittog
ether.wordpress.com/
2013/10/06/breaking-
scandal-torn-wirral-
council-has-no-exter
nal-investigations-p
olicy/
[quote][p][bold]Cloud 23[/bold] wrote: That's just it. They bring in external investigators but you never accept the outcome because it doesn't say what you want. So all 6 people/organisations are wrong but you are right because you always know better than everyone else hey. Even when you dont have all the facts they have. Its arrogance beyond belief. You then try and find ways to discredit their independence. If is an internal investigation you see it as a stitch up and if its an external investigation you see it as a stitch up. Is it a legal requirement to have an external investigations policy? Do other organisations have them? I don't think so.[/p][/quote]Er.... yes. Other organisations, including other local authorities closely connected to this one (e.g. #QuackCWaC) DO have external investigations policies and procedures. It's an essential part of safeguarding and public oversight - and done in order to prevent - I'll nick one of your favourite words here - CRONIES... coming in and delivering exactly what you want under the pretense of "independence". e.g. Rob Vickers, who did 2 investigations, came up trumps and whose company now enjoys a host of work and banks a six figure payment from the council annually.... ....yes, that's our cash he's got his mitts on. Before self-exposing more chasms in your knowledge, read the ins and outs here. I've got better things to do than trot them all out again on a Saturday night, so off you go, there's a good chap. Run along: http://wirralinittog ether.wordpress.com/ 2013/10/06/breaking- scandal-torn-wirral- council-has-no-exter nal-investigations-p olicy/ PaulCa

9:39pm Sat 30 Nov 13

Cloud 23 says...

Haha the truth is you haven't got better things to do on a Saturday night or any other day for that matter. That's why you spend all day every day obsessing about a local council and boring everyone to death. Maybe you should consider joining society and getting a job. No legal requirement for a policy. Even if the council had one you would never accept outcome if it wasnt what you wanted. I have noticed that you or your cronies never post comments against any good news pieces about council services, not that the globe choose to publish many, because it doesn't fit in with your agenda.
Haha the truth is you haven't got better things to do on a Saturday night or any other day for that matter. That's why you spend all day every day obsessing about a local council and boring everyone to death. Maybe you should consider joining society and getting a job. No legal requirement for a policy. Even if the council had one you would never accept outcome if it wasnt what you wanted. I have noticed that you or your cronies never post comments against any good news pieces about council services, not that the globe choose to publish many, because it doesn't fit in with your agenda. Cloud 23

11:20pm Sat 30 Nov 13

PaulCa says...

Cloud 23 wrote:
Haha the truth is you haven't got better things to do on a Saturday night or any other day for that matter. That's why you spend all day every day obsessing about a local council and boring everyone to death. Maybe you should consider joining society and getting a job. No legal requirement for a policy. Even if the council had one you would never accept outcome if it wasnt what you wanted. I have noticed that you or your cronies never post comments against any good news pieces about council services, not that the globe choose to publish many, because it doesn't fit in with your agenda.
Er.... Not sure I need to "join society", being a long term and valued member of it already. As for "getting a job", I've held down several varied roles, for many decades, exposed the crooked people in power around me, cornered them, then resigned or retired early on the strength of the findings.

I don't need to justify myself to you either, Mr Anonymous, hiding behind your "Cloud 23" moniker and the concealing petticoats of Abusive Mother Council. Haha. As I said, if you want to get on and make some progress in this neck of the woods, have a read of that link I sent earlier and fill those chasms in your knowledge with detailed, valuable and comprehensive info.

Drink deep on the fount of knowledge and savour it long. If it sticks, we may then be in a position to shepherd you towards the sunlight, carve out a real purpose for you, and eventually take your contributions a little more seriously.

But I have to say, as it stands, it's gonna take a "Damascus moment" from you - some willingness if you will, before the penny finally drops. As it stands, you've a long way to go mate.

A loooooooong way to go. Cheers !!
[quote][p][bold]Cloud 23[/bold] wrote: Haha the truth is you haven't got better things to do on a Saturday night or any other day for that matter. That's why you spend all day every day obsessing about a local council and boring everyone to death. Maybe you should consider joining society and getting a job. No legal requirement for a policy. Even if the council had one you would never accept outcome if it wasnt what you wanted. I have noticed that you or your cronies never post comments against any good news pieces about council services, not that the globe choose to publish many, because it doesn't fit in with your agenda.[/p][/quote]Er.... Not sure I need to "join society", being a long term and valued member of it already. As for "getting a job", I've held down several varied roles, for many decades, exposed the crooked people in power around me, cornered them, then resigned or retired early on the strength of the findings. I don't need to justify myself to you either, Mr Anonymous, hiding behind your "Cloud 23" moniker and the concealing petticoats of Abusive Mother Council. Haha. As I said, if you want to get on and make some progress in this neck of the woods, have a read of that link I sent earlier and fill those chasms in your knowledge with detailed, valuable and comprehensive info. Drink deep on the fount of knowledge and savour it long. If it sticks, we may then be in a position to shepherd you towards the sunlight, carve out a real purpose for you, and eventually take your contributions a little more seriously. But I have to say, as it stands, it's gonna take a "Damascus moment" from you - some willingness if you will, before the penny finally drops. As it stands, you've a long way to go mate. A loooooooong way to go. Cheers !! PaulCa

11:56pm Sat 30 Nov 13

MDRyUK says...

Cloud 23 wrote:
Haha the truth is you haven't got better things to do on a Saturday night or any other day for that matter. That's why you spend all day every day obsessing about a local council and boring everyone to death. Maybe you should consider joining society and getting a job. No legal requirement for a policy. Even if the council had one you would never accept outcome if it wasnt what you wanted. I have noticed that you or your cronies never post comments against any good news pieces about council services, not that the globe choose to publish many, because it doesn't fit in with your agenda.
There is, at times, lots of confusion around some of the comments left in these Wirral Globe forums surrounding various comments left by others. It's a free country and people can literally say what they want so long as it doesn't breach the guidelines we all have to accept by posting our comments here.

Whether people are wasting their time or not is up to them I would say. Basically if you are "!bored to death" reading the comments of others simple answer is STOP .... read something else or even surf another web page, its the easiest way of NOT boring yourself to death!If, on the other hand you're a troll out to cause mischief well then I think the old play ground saying must apply: "sticks and stones may break YOUR bones but NAMES will never hurt me!"

Curiously ridicule is something best understood by the person making the claim, never really in practical terms necessarily by others reading the comments attributed. That's has logical works - some may agree, some may disagree but then your computer ultimately has an on-off power button so if you're that upset by what you're reading online, well then switch your PC off and go and do something else - by far the easiest way forward I'd say!

With specific regard to the topic under review - Wirral Borough Council - we're all entitled to have our say, some praise our leaders, others do not. The idea "they can do no wrong" is equally challenging and some say boring to read. At the end of the day we're supposed to be living in a democracy so on that basis our local politicians and senior council officers probably have "exceedingly thick skins". More to the point they accept the challenge of criticism and respond effectively to critics than bask in the glory and content when somebody, somewhere, takes time to praise them.

That apart let's hope more Wirral people than usual use their vote in May 2014 to have their say - don't you know its a secret ballot so one should rest assured (a) your vote counts and (b) if anyone asks you don't have to tell the truth even and say who (or what political party) you voted for!

So, I ask myself, have I just wasted my time by posting this message or perhaps "bored readers to death" by writing it?
[quote][p][bold]Cloud 23[/bold] wrote: Haha the truth is you haven't got better things to do on a Saturday night or any other day for that matter. That's why you spend all day every day obsessing about a local council and boring everyone to death. Maybe you should consider joining society and getting a job. No legal requirement for a policy. Even if the council had one you would never accept outcome if it wasnt what you wanted. I have noticed that you or your cronies never post comments against any good news pieces about council services, not that the globe choose to publish many, because it doesn't fit in with your agenda.[/p][/quote]There is, at times, lots of confusion around some of the comments left in these Wirral Globe forums surrounding various comments left by others. It's a free country and people can literally say what they want so long as it doesn't breach the guidelines we all have to accept by posting our comments here. Whether people are wasting their time or not is up to them I would say. Basically if you are "!bored to death" reading the comments of others simple answer is STOP .... read something else or even surf another web page, its the easiest way of NOT boring yourself to death!If, on the other hand you're a troll out to cause mischief well then I think the old play ground saying must apply: "sticks and stones may break YOUR bones but NAMES will never hurt me!" Curiously ridicule is something best understood by the person making the claim, never really in practical terms necessarily by others reading the comments attributed. That's has logical works - some may agree, some may disagree but then your computer ultimately has an on-off power button so if you're that upset by what you're reading online, well then switch your PC off and go and do something else - by far the easiest way forward I'd say! With specific regard to the topic under review - Wirral Borough Council - we're all entitled to have our say, some praise our leaders, others do not. The idea "they can do no wrong" is equally challenging and some say boring to read. At the end of the day we're supposed to be living in a democracy so on that basis our local politicians and senior council officers probably have "exceedingly thick skins". More to the point they accept the challenge of criticism and respond effectively to critics than bask in the glory and content when somebody, somewhere, takes time to praise them. That apart let's hope more Wirral people than usual use their vote in May 2014 to have their say - don't you know its a secret ballot so one should rest assured (a) your vote counts and (b) if anyone asks you don't have to tell the truth even and say who (or what political party) you voted for! So, I ask myself, have I just wasted my time by posting this message or perhaps "bored readers to death" by writing it? MDRyUK

6:08pm Sun 1 Dec 13

Mr moderate says...

After reading all these post and trying to be neutral I think Tory's dropped a clanger whilst trying to score political points and are now back peddling as for money being wasted I would agree but this work is essential and got to admit being a regular reader of comments Paul joe and co do seem to have a agenda
After reading all these post and trying to be neutral I think Tory's dropped a clanger whilst trying to score political points and are now back peddling as for money being wasted I would agree but this work is essential and got to admit being a regular reader of comments Paul joe and co do seem to have a agenda Mr moderate

9:03pm Sun 1 Dec 13

Joeblogg85 says...

Mr moderate wrote:
After reading all these post and trying to be neutral I think Tory's dropped a clanger whilst trying to score political points and are now back peddling as for money being wasted I would agree but this work is essential and got to admit being a regular reader of comments Paul joe and co do seem to have a agenda
Mr Moderate,

Hope I can explain my viewpoint.

I also agree that all Council buildings need to comply with the appropriate equality legislation. In this particular instance, my query was the cost involved only. Is it necessary to spend nearly £1m on a fire escape? Having seen the photo, it does seem a very nice staircase for the money but still seems a lot to me.

Best wishes
[quote][p][bold]Mr moderate[/bold] wrote: After reading all these post and trying to be neutral I think Tory's dropped a clanger whilst trying to score political points and are now back peddling as for money being wasted I would agree but this work is essential and got to admit being a regular reader of comments Paul joe and co do seem to have a agenda[/p][/quote]Mr Moderate, Hope I can explain my viewpoint. I also agree that all Council buildings need to comply with the appropriate equality legislation. In this particular instance, my query was the cost involved only. Is it necessary to spend nearly £1m on a fire escape? Having seen the photo, it does seem a very nice staircase for the money but still seems a lot to me. Best wishes Joeblogg85

10:07pm Sun 1 Dec 13

Llamedos 1 says...

Agenda, yes there is certainly an agenda and quite simply that agenda is to try and ensure that the council tax levied on the residents of Wirral is spent in an efficient,frugal and honest way to the benefit of those council tax payers and residents. You will be well aware that with the present encumbents of the clown hall are wasting OUR money hand over fist and they need to be kept aware of the feelings of the public they are supposed to represent
Agenda, yes there is certainly an agenda and quite simply that agenda is to try and ensure that the council tax levied on the residents of Wirral is spent in an efficient,frugal and honest way to the benefit of those council tax payers and residents. You will be well aware that with the present encumbents of the clown hall are wasting OUR money hand over fist and they need to be kept aware of the feelings of the public they are supposed to represent Llamedos 1

7:37am Mon 2 Dec 13

JohnON says...

Mr moderate wrote:
After reading all these post and trying to be neutral I think Tory's dropped a clanger whilst trying to score political points and are now back peddling as for money being wasted I would agree but this work is essential and got to admit being a regular reader of comments Paul joe and co do seem to have a agenda
Mr Moderate, you say you're trying to be neutral but immediately follow that with "Tory's dropped a clanger whilst trying to score political points". That sounds like a political statement in itself rather than a neutral one.

Personally, I find it refreshing when a councillor - any councillor - seems to go against their own party's thinking. I don't regard it as dropping a clanger at all, but that they're allowed the "freedom" to express their own opinions.

I say "any councillor" but of all the parties, being allowed to express their own opinions is something Labour councillors seems especially poor at. They seem to be heavily-reliant on the pack-animal mentality (inside and outside the Town Hall) in order to stay in power.
[quote][p][bold]Mr moderate[/bold] wrote: After reading all these post and trying to be neutral I think Tory's dropped a clanger whilst trying to score political points and are now back peddling as for money being wasted I would agree but this work is essential and got to admit being a regular reader of comments Paul joe and co do seem to have a agenda[/p][/quote]Mr Moderate, you say you're trying to be neutral but immediately follow that with "Tory's dropped a clanger whilst trying to score political points". That sounds like a political statement in itself rather than a neutral one. Personally, I find it refreshing when a councillor - any councillor - seems to go against their own party's thinking. I don't regard it as dropping a clanger at all, but that they're allowed the "freedom" to express their own opinions. I say "any councillor" but of all the parties, being allowed to express their own opinions is something Labour councillors seems especially poor at. They seem to be heavily-reliant on the pack-animal mentality (inside and outside the Town Hall) in order to stay in power. JohnON

9:53am Mon 2 Dec 13

artemis81 says...

PaulCa wrote:
Cloud 23 wrote:
Haha the truth is you haven't got better things to do on a Saturday night or any other day for that matter. That's why you spend all day every day obsessing about a local council and boring everyone to death. Maybe you should consider joining society and getting a job. No legal requirement for a policy. Even if the council had one you would never accept outcome if it wasnt what you wanted. I have noticed that you or your cronies never post comments against any good news pieces about council services, not that the globe choose to publish many, because it doesn't fit in with your agenda.
Er.... Not sure I need to "join society", being a long term and valued member of it already. As for "getting a job", I've held down several varied roles, for many decades, exposed the crooked people in power around me, cornered them, then resigned or retired early on the strength of the findings.

I don't need to justify myself to you either, Mr Anonymous, hiding behind your "Cloud 23" moniker and the concealing petticoats of Abusive Mother Council. Haha. As I said, if you want to get on and make some progress in this neck of the woods, have a read of that link I sent earlier and fill those chasms in your knowledge with detailed, valuable and comprehensive info.

Drink deep on the fount of knowledge and savour it long. If it sticks, we may then be in a position to shepherd you towards the sunlight, carve out a real purpose for you, and eventually take your contributions a little more seriously.

But I have to say, as it stands, it's gonna take a "Damascus moment" from you - some willingness if you will, before the penny finally drops. As it stands, you've a long way to go mate.

A loooooooong way to go. Cheers !!
I've just read back through your comments to this particular thread and you've contributed absolutely nothing related to the story. All you've done is pedal out the same stuff; historical (hysterical, in many cases) perceived wrongs, accusations of bullying, abuse and incompetence, but no opinion on this story. As i think someone else on here has implied, you do yourself a massive disservice when you wheel out the same old stuff in relation to every single apparently negative story concerning this Council. I'd be willing to give a lot more credence to your investigations and musings if, at the back of my mind, I didn't have this nagging feeling that you have a very personal axe to grind somewhere along the line. And you know, at times, for a self-proclaimed anti-bullying campaigner, you come remarkably close to being the biggest bully of the lot when someone doesn't share your viewpoint.
[quote][p][bold]PaulCa[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]Cloud 23[/bold] wrote: Haha the truth is you haven't got better things to do on a Saturday night or any other day for that matter. That's why you spend all day every day obsessing about a local council and boring everyone to death. Maybe you should consider joining society and getting a job. No legal requirement for a policy. Even if the council had one you would never accept outcome if it wasnt what you wanted. I have noticed that you or your cronies never post comments against any good news pieces about council services, not that the globe choose to publish many, because it doesn't fit in with your agenda.[/p][/quote]Er.... Not sure I need to "join society", being a long term and valued member of it already. As for "getting a job", I've held down several varied roles, for many decades, exposed the crooked people in power around me, cornered them, then resigned or retired early on the strength of the findings. I don't need to justify myself to you either, Mr Anonymous, hiding behind your "Cloud 23" moniker and the concealing petticoats of Abusive Mother Council. Haha. As I said, if you want to get on and make some progress in this neck of the woods, have a read of that link I sent earlier and fill those chasms in your knowledge with detailed, valuable and comprehensive info. Drink deep on the fount of knowledge and savour it long. If it sticks, we may then be in a position to shepherd you towards the sunlight, carve out a real purpose for you, and eventually take your contributions a little more seriously. But I have to say, as it stands, it's gonna take a "Damascus moment" from you - some willingness if you will, before the penny finally drops. As it stands, you've a long way to go mate. A loooooooong way to go. Cheers !![/p][/quote]I've just read back through your comments to this particular thread and you've contributed absolutely nothing related to the story. All you've done is pedal out the same stuff; historical (hysterical, in many cases) perceived wrongs, accusations of bullying, abuse and incompetence, but no opinion on this story. As i think someone else on here has implied, you do yourself a massive disservice when you wheel out the same old stuff in relation to every single apparently negative story concerning this Council. I'd be willing to give a lot more credence to your investigations and musings if, at the back of my mind, I didn't have this nagging feeling that you have a very personal axe to grind somewhere along the line. And you know, at times, for a self-proclaimed anti-bullying campaigner, you come remarkably close to being the biggest bully of the lot when someone doesn't share your viewpoint. artemis81

8:03pm Mon 2 Dec 13

Llamedos 1 says...

If you are happy paying your hard earned council tax over to a bunch of proven incompetent idiots (assuming of course you pay council tax) then thats your perogative but dont criticise people that are trying to hold WBC to account for the scandalous waste of OUR money. The so called independent organisations who monitor local authorities are as useful as a chocolate fire guards bearing in mind that their powers that be are generally ex council officials and CEO`s
If you are happy paying your hard earned council tax over to a bunch of proven incompetent idiots (assuming of course you pay council tax) then thats your perogative but dont criticise people that are trying to hold WBC to account for the scandalous waste of OUR money. The so called independent organisations who monitor local authorities are as useful as a chocolate fire guards bearing in mind that their powers that be are generally ex council officials and CEO`s Llamedos 1

9:19pm Mon 2 Dec 13

PaulCa says...

Artemis81

The antidote to your fevered imaginings exists here:

http://www.wirralini
ttogether.wordpress.
com

Warning. You'll read about extreme behaviour over an extended period of time by R E A L bullies at Wirral and occasionally #QuackCWaC council. Of course it goes nowhere near the true depth and extent of this toxic and as yet unchecked conduct.

There's much to learn. Take two posts per session, and sip on something strong. Now run along, there's a good fellow.
[bold] Artemis81 [/bold] The antidote to your fevered imaginings exists here: http://www.wirralini ttogether.wordpress. com Warning. You'll read about extreme behaviour over an extended period of time by R E A L bullies at Wirral and occasionally #QuackCWaC council. Of course it goes nowhere near the true depth and extent of this toxic and as yet unchecked conduct. There's much to learn. Take two posts per session, and sip on something strong. Now run along, there's a good fellow. PaulCa

1:09pm Tue 3 Dec 13

artemis81 says...

PaulCa wrote:
Artemis81

The antidote to your fevered imaginings exists here:

http://www.wirralini

ttogether.wordpress.

com

Warning. You'll read about extreme behaviour over an extended period of time by R E A L bullies at Wirral and occasionally #QuackCWaC council. Of course it goes nowhere near the true depth and extent of this toxic and as yet unchecked conduct.

There's much to learn. Take two posts per session, and sip on something strong. Now run along, there's a good fellow.
There you go, that kind of confirms what I wrote...

I'm sure it's a fine read, but I'll pass if that's all the same to you. Keep up the good work, though - sad to say, I know there are wrongs to be put right and sometimes you're bang on the button. Mostly, though, you are crying foul and scenting scandal where there simply is none and that makes me a feel a bit sad too.
[quote][p][bold]PaulCa[/bold] wrote: [bold] Artemis81 [/bold] The antidote to your fevered imaginings exists here: http://www.wirralini ttogether.wordpress. com Warning. You'll read about extreme behaviour over an extended period of time by R E A L bullies at Wirral and occasionally #QuackCWaC council. Of course it goes nowhere near the true depth and extent of this toxic and as yet unchecked conduct. There's much to learn. Take two posts per session, and sip on something strong. Now run along, there's a good fellow.[/p][/quote]There you go, that kind of confirms what I wrote... I'm sure it's a fine read, but I'll pass if that's all the same to you. Keep up the good work, though - sad to say, I know there are wrongs to be put right and sometimes you're bang on the button. Mostly, though, you are crying foul and scenting scandal where there simply is none and that makes me a feel a bit sad too. artemis81

4:04pm Tue 3 Dec 13

hobroW says...

Cloud 23 wrote:
That's just it. They bring in external investigators but you never accept the outcome because it doesn't say what you want. So all 6 people/organisations are wrong but you are right because you always know better than everyone else hey. Even when you dont have all the facts they have. Its arrogance beyond belief. You then try and find ways to discredit their independence. If is an internal investigation you see it as a stitch up and if its an external investigation you see it as a stitch up. Is it a legal requirement to have an external investigations policy? Do other organisations have them? I don't think so.
I can answer to Grant Thornton report . The information contained therein emanated from myself up to 80% thereof. The real problem is that the ISUs report produced in March 2013 has never been released. All we know is it has been given the Police. THe BIG fund report was only released after enormous pressure from the Press and then only to editors. It took a "on the hop" question in the full chamber at a Council Meeting to get even the publication of the Executive summary. to the BIG report.

Apart from a few quibbles I approve the independence of the BIG report for after all they were repeating my own conclusions and verifying them. It was an independent enquiry.

The real point is it cost £25,000 to point out that which was obvious but somehow eluded the trained auditors of WBC, and that for a period of 13 months after the same explanations I would give to Grant Thornton had also been given to WBC.

THE BIG investigation was independent , ought to be devastating to the reputation of WBC but was also FORCED upon the Council.

The WBC refuse to look at any more of these grants despite having a 100% failure in a random sample of 6 files.

Nothing to do with stairways, fire escapes but something to do with the rationale behind Paul Cardin's campaigning.
[quote][p][bold]Cloud 23[/bold] wrote: That's just it. They bring in external investigators but you never accept the outcome because it doesn't say what you want. So all 6 people/organisations are wrong but you are right because you always know better than everyone else hey. Even when you dont have all the facts they have. Its arrogance beyond belief. You then try and find ways to discredit their independence. If is an internal investigation you see it as a stitch up and if its an external investigation you see it as a stitch up. Is it a legal requirement to have an external investigations policy? Do other organisations have them? I don't think so.[/p][/quote]I can answer to Grant Thornton report . The information contained therein emanated from myself up to 80% thereof. The real problem is that the ISUs report produced in March 2013 has never been released. All we know is it has been given the Police. THe BIG fund report was only released after enormous pressure from the Press and then only to editors. It took a "on the hop" question in the full chamber at a Council Meeting to get even the publication of the Executive summary. to the BIG report. Apart from a few quibbles I approve the independence of the BIG report for after all they were repeating my own conclusions and verifying them. It was an independent enquiry. The real point is it cost £25,000 to point out that which was obvious but somehow eluded the trained auditors of WBC, and that for a period of 13 months after the same explanations I would give to Grant Thornton had also been given to WBC. THE BIG investigation was independent , ought to be devastating to the reputation of WBC but was also FORCED upon the Council. The WBC refuse to look at any more of these grants despite having a 100% failure in a random sample of 6 files. Nothing to do with stairways, fire escapes but something to do with the rationale behind Paul Cardin's campaigning. hobroW

2:57pm Mon 9 Dec 13

benny07 says...

was this work put out to tender ? if so release the estimates of at least 3 contractors to the public,with a quantity surveryer report to justify costs,& why did this stairway/fire escape cost so much ? who are the contractors, that built this stair way,& how can the labour cllrs,justify & defend this amount of local tax payers cash on 1 job,it stinks,of coruption and without a doubt the police need calling in now, with a specialist fraud squad from outside merseyside,& have a good look at all the land & contractor deals over the past 10 years,,come next april we would have no one to vote for in the local elections,,the lot & more would be in walton jail ,& good ridance.!!
was this work put out to tender ? if so release the estimates of at least 3 contractors to the public,with a quantity surveryer report to justify costs,& why did this stairway/fire escape cost so much ? who are the contractors, that built this stair way,& how can the labour cllrs,justify & defend this amount of local tax payers cash on 1 job,it stinks,of coruption and without a doubt the police need calling in now, with a specialist fraud squad from outside merseyside,& have a good look at all the land & contractor deals over the past 10 years,,come next april we would have no one to vote for in the local elections,,the lot & more would be in walton jail ,& good ridance.!! benny07

3:28pm Mon 9 Dec 13

benny07 says...

remember the points on this £ 850 THOUSAND JOB ,ALL PARTIES ARE RESPONSIBLE,& NEED TO BE BROUGHT TO ACCOUNT, £ 850 GRAND ,THERES NO WAY THE FIRE ESCAPE COST THAT MUCH, & WHAT IS ALL THE RED CARPET ABOUT ASWELL,? THIS COUNCIL IS TAKIN THE P... OUT OF YOU & I THE TAX PAYER,ENOUGH IS ENOUGH..
remember the points on this £ 850 THOUSAND JOB ,ALL PARTIES ARE RESPONSIBLE,& NEED TO BE BROUGHT TO ACCOUNT, £ 850 GRAND ,THERES NO WAY THE FIRE ESCAPE COST THAT MUCH, & WHAT IS ALL THE RED CARPET ABOUT ASWELL,? THIS COUNCIL IS TAKIN THE P... OUT OF YOU & I THE TAX PAYER,ENOUGH IS ENOUGH.. benny07

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