Wirral cabinet approves negotiations over scrapping Ingleborough memorial field covenant (From Wirral Globe)

What an absolute disgrace,they even have the gaul to out themselves as having a vested "interest"now we know why TRFC have been cosseted by this council, apparently the story goes the Council will receive a million pound for disposing of the covenent which they will then "give" to TRFC to make themselves a nice little training centre at Woodchurch! looking at the gifts and hospitalities page, a third of our elected 66 have recieved "hospitality" from TRFC, no suprise there then, so it does'nt bode well for impartiality.

To the innermost heart of their own land they are known,but sadly not enough to care or matter by some.

Lest We Forget

uncatom wrote:
What an absolute disgrace,they even have the gaul to out themselves as having a vested "interest"now we know why TRFC have been cosseted by this council, apparently the story goes the Council will receive a million pound for disposing of the covenent which they will then "give" to TRFC to make themselves a nice little training centre at Woodchurch! looking at the gifts and hospitalities page, a third of our elected 66 have recieved "hospitality" from TRFC, no suprise there then, so it does'nt bode well for impartiality. To the innermost heart of their own land they are known,but sadly not enough to care or matter by some. Lest We Forget

Spot on again there uncatom !!

It was hardly a fair discussion with so many declaring an interest, and one being our local councillor Tony Smith makes me even more furious at the way this is all going.

Disgusting ... and the sad thing is it won't matter what any of us say, WBC will please themselves and increase the profit of this private company who are supposedly going to do so much for the community of Woodchurch. But of course this has not been decided yet ..... watch this space !!

I understand it is Mr Peter Johnson's two-day "stag do" today and tomorrow.

This windfall has come at just the right time to pay the bar-bill.

If wars were solved by a football match we would be speaking German by now. It's a disgrace that the memory of the brave sacrifice made by these noble people has been sullied by the God of Mammon by a bunch of 'Wendy Ball' players and their followers.

i thought the original plans including preserving the plaque anyway.

surely common sense means this is a win win situation

better facilities for our nations youngsters

Yes thats right freebase we will now have a council run sports facility taken over by private enterprise, that in turn will mean restrictions on some uses of the facilities to allow TRFC privilaged access, definitely a win win result for TRFC, anyone thought about charges going up for the use of Woodchurch?if they have no qualms about selling a Memorial field they certainly wont about dumping on the local populace, be careful what you wish for.

The only win win's are for greed and avarice.

The fallen should not be forgotten

Lest we Forget

Now where's that JCB?

am not in either camp just pro better facilities for the people of the borough

Did all the Councillors in the cabinet who have received free tickets for TRFC declare an interest as well i wonder.

yes they did and then therefore couldn't contribute

I'm am a Tranmere Rovers fan and I can see why people are against it...

But, you must consider that:

1) There will be a new war memorial within the development

2) There will be hundreds of construction jobs being available

3) Tranmere Rovers are extremely passionate about the community as shown on the official website and on the "Rovers to you" in the Wirral Globe

4) Tranmere Rovers and the fans (Including me) care a lot about the people who fight for our country e.g. Cheap admission for all home games for all troops

And has anyone actually seen the war memorial on the site?

Oh well if the development goes ahead you can see the memorial and give your tributes

There are many more positives than negatives and I'm sure there are loads more which I can't think about!

Have a good time watching the matches! Only a few more home games left! Super White Army!

TRFC4LIFE wrote:
I'm am a Tranmere Rovers fan and I can see why people are against it...

But, you must consider that:

1) There will be a new war memorial within the development

2) There will be hundreds of construction jobs being available

3) Tranmere Rovers are extremely passionate about the community as shown on the official website and on the "Rovers to you" in the Wirral Globe

4) Tranmere Rovers and the fans (Including me) care a lot about the people who fight for our country e.g. Cheap admission for all home games for all troops

And has anyone actually seen the war memorial on the site?

Oh well if the development goes ahead you can see the memorial and give your tributes

There are many more positives than negatives and I'm sure there are loads more which I can't think about!

Have a good time watching the matches! Only a few more home games left! Super White Army!

Peter Johnson knew, that he had another 7-12 thousand just like you, when he bought the memorial field with future development in mind.
Even WBC are using (amateur) tactics to appear more distant from these sordid dealings. Just another sign of the level of contempt that Johnson and his Councillors have for us.
They (the council) probably have a plan to re sponsor TRFC once the houses have their roofs on?
I hope none of those who voted for the bulldozers, turn up for the next remembrance day ceremonies.

This is a sad and shameful moment, in the Wirrals Proud History.

Tautology wrote:

TRFC4LIFE wrote:
I'm am a Tranmere Rovers fan and I can see why people are against it...

But, you must consider that:

1) There will be a new war memorial within the development

2) There will be hundreds of construction jobs being available

3) Tranmere Rovers are extremely passionate about the community as shown on the official website and on the "Rovers to you" in the Wirral Globe

4) Tranmere Rovers and the fans (Including me) care a lot about the people who fight for our country e.g. Cheap admission for all home games for all troops

And has anyone actually seen the war memorial on the site?

Oh well if the development goes ahead you can see the memorial and give your tributes

There are many more positives than negatives and I'm sure there are loads more which I can't think about!

Have a good time watching the matches! Only a few more home games left! Super White Army!

Peter Johnson knew, that he had another 7-12 thousand just like you, when he bought the memorial field with future development in mind.
Even WBC are using (amateur) tactics to appear more distant from these sordid dealings. Just another sign of the level of contempt that Johnson and his Councillors have for us.
They (the council) probably have a plan to re sponsor TRFC once the houses have their roofs on?
I hope none of those who voted for the bulldozers, turn up for the next remembrance day ceremonies.

This is a sad and shameful moment, in the Wirrals Proud History.

What if any of the people who voted for the bulldozers are currently or have been in the armed forces or have members of their family who have lost their lives in conflicts. ?

TRFC4LIFE speaks sense, everyone can benefit from the plans but some people will obviously refuse to acknowledge this fact.

The usual suspects will now appear on this thread, much hand wringing and gnashing of teeth is awaited.

Muir the Merrier wrote:

Tautology wrote:

TRFC4LIFE wrote:
I'm am a Tranmere Rovers fan and I can see why people are against it...

But, you must consider that:

1) There will be a new war memorial within the development

2) There will be hundreds of construction jobs being available

3) Tranmere Rovers are extremely passionate about the community as shown on the official website and on the "Rovers to you" in the Wirral Globe

4) Tranmere Rovers and the fans (Including me) care a lot about the people who fight for our country e.g. Cheap admission for all home games for all troops

And has anyone actually seen the war memorial on the site?

Oh well if the development goes ahead you can see the memorial and give your tributes

There are many more positives than negatives and I'm sure there are loads more which I can't think about!

Have a good time watching the matches! Only a few more home games left! Super White Army!

Peter Johnson knew, that he had another 7-12 thousand just like you, when he bought the memorial field with future development in mind.
Even WBC are using (amateur) tactics to appear more distant from these sordid dealings. Just another sign of the level of contempt that Johnson and his Councillors have for us.
They (the council) probably have a plan to re sponsor TRFC once the houses have their roofs on?
I hope none of those who voted for the bulldozers, turn up for the next remembrance day ceremonies.

This is a sad and shameful moment, in the Wirrals Proud History.

What if any of the people who voted for the bulldozers are currently or have been in the armed forces or have members of their family who have lost their lives in conflicts. ?

TRFC4LIFE speaks sense, everyone can benefit from the plans but some people will obviously refuse to acknowledge this fact.

The usual suspects will now appear on this thread, much hand wringing and gnashing of teeth is awaited.

"The usual suspects will now appear on this thread" ??? Please?

"What if any of the people who voted for the bulldozers are currently or have been in the armed forces or have members of their family who have lost their lives in conflicts. ?"

Doesn't alter the facts!

When all is said and done, the development of the memorial field is a moral issue, and reflects on us, the community.

What's your real reason/interest?

Tautology can I ask why you think it brings shame

Can I ask why you think you represent everyone s view's

Also what is your interest I've read previous thread's suggesting you work for Dean Johnson

Freebase "I'am not in any camp" I see the mask has slipped,can I enlighten you on why it brings shame,IngleboroughMe
morial Field like the Cenotaph in Hamilton Square was paid for from bequests and money given by individuals(not the government nor the council)in most cases from people who had little or nothing to give,to rememember their sons who fell in the Great War,genuine people who wanted that sacrifice remembered, not like the money grubbers of today that would make money from all the sacrifices of sons and mothers of that era,for what? so a grubby businessman can be paid back a loan, a debt ,is that all the sacrifices were worth?does that not appear shameful to you leeching off the goodwill of others? and no like many of the "usual suspects" on this thread I am not allied to Dean Johanson, shameful yes the word describes it perfectly.

Freebase "I'am not in any camp" I see the mask has slipped,can I enlighten you on why it brings shame,IngleboroughMe
morial Field like the Cenotaph in Hamilton Square was paid for from bequests and money given by individuals(not the government nor the council)in most cases from people who had little or nothing to give,to rememember their sons who fell in the Great War,genuine people who wanted that sacrifice remembered, not like the money grubbers of today that would make money from all the sacrifices of sons and mothers of that era,for what? so a grubby businessman can be paid back a loan, a debt ,is that all the sacrifices were worth?does that not appear shameful to you leeching off the goodwill of others? and no like many of the "usual suspects" on this thread I am not allied to Dean Johanson, shameful yes the word describes it perfectly.

freebase wrote:
Tautology can I ask why you think it brings shame

Can I ask why you think you represent everyone s view's

Also what is your interest I've read previous thread's suggesting you work for Dean Johnson

Let's get something straight!
I (the usual suspect?) have no association whatsoever with Dean Johnson. I have never met, or even spoken to the man. I have no reason or compulsion to even meet him, my views on this subject are entirely mine and I speak entirely for myself.

If I need to explain to you why it brings shame...

I refer to my earlier posts.

freebase wrote:
am not in either camp just pro better facilities for the people of the borough

That's what we pay Council Tax for freebase.

Instead, this Council has just CUT services by a third and increased Council Tax by 2%. And that's just year one of a three year cuts program.

RIP Boy's.

Lest We Forget.

What mask has slipped

I talk not of usual suspects

Jim I agree with you 100% service's should be paid for by local and central government but alas we live in austere times

View's are very entrenched I see

Tautology your views sound like those of an award winning local editor

I've just joined to day and I note all what is being said. First I'm not of or for any Political Party or Organization just a resident of this Borough. I belivie in the principle of open goverance and inclusion that we refer to as Democracy.
I attended the Cabinet Meeting this week and I witnessed the total disregard by those we have Elected, to those very "Principles".
I've placed with this Council a complaint on the use of procedures by these very same people to restrict "Open Cousultation" with the residents of this Borough.I've approached my three Ward Councilors with my "SeriousConcerns". This all prior to this matter being place before Cabinet this week.
To-Date I've not had any response to the very serious concerns,concering this issue or even my attemps up to the last minute on the day of the Cabinet Meeting. Those issues have been placed by me with the Council Leader, the other Party Leaders, Councillor Jones, the Legal Office of Council and this they chouse to ignore those efforts and still they failed to address those issue that have a very important impact on the rights of the residents of this Borough to Consultation!
It is clear to me that some of you have not read the report by Mr. Ian Brand, Head of Asset Management and its recommendations. It would be wise of you to visit the Council Web-Site and Cabinet Minutes and digest the information in this report.

for some very important information is contained in it such as;
The Deed of Covenant gives any profit on the sale of this over and above that of its value as a sports ground.
This deed was put in place at the time this site transfered to TRFC to prevent Profit Taking on a Public Asset.
The orginal argument by the Club was its need to survive by cutting costs involved in its Hurrel Road site, and it entered into its ownership accepting this Deed being put in place.

It is also the case that this Council is putting its reliance on a Consulation carried out by the Club in the areas where these development will happen
However Council is excluding the wider residences of the Borough for their right to Consultation in how the funds generated will be used.
A right they have inview of the Funding this Club has already had from PublicFunds.

Is it not time for this whole Issue and that of the Behaviour of this Council is opened up to real Public Scurtiny by way of a Public Consultation?

I Thank you for allowing to impose on your time.

Wirral Democrat

wirral democrat,
welcome to this debate,and of course to the open democratic,transpare
nt members of our council whom as you have found out fail to consult and to listen to the concerns of all of the residents of Wirral.

wirral democrat wrote:
Is it not time for this whole Issue and that of the Behaviour of this Council is opened up to real Public Scurtiny by way of a Public Consultation?

I Thank you for allowing to impose on your time.

Wirral Democrat

Your frustrations have been similarly experienced by many on this forum. One example: Local area forums where initially well attended, with many of the public's concerns being measured, and any successful outcome being beneficial to 'Our' community.
Sorry to report: We, the local tax-payers, where never really listened to and seldom successful in having our concerns manifest into anything positive.
Because of this arrogant behaviour by council/panel members, these local forums became poorly attended.
WBC has a problem in understanding its position as a representative body of the local tax-payer, hence the corruption uncovered over recent years.

Be a different story if most people had the opportunity to pocket a few million quid

Positive thinker wrote:
Be a different story if most people had the opportunity to pocket a few million quid

It is a true statement but sad for it is used in general terms that does not reflect the real picture that the majority of people are not dishonest & underminds the real question that needs answered behand this whole affair and that is the behaviour of the few & until we the Consituents put those question forward and press for answers we place at risk Democracry in this Borough.I've engaged in that process I now invite you?

wirral democrat,
some I hope helpful advice as you are new to the forum, Positive Thinker is the resident troll and its better not to respond, however it is your choice.

Positive thinker wrote:
Be a different story if most people had the opportunity to pocket a few million quid

Such a sad statement.

Being a local self employed businessman, with many dealings, over many years with local businesses. I can truly say that your statement (in this case) is off the mark, and does not reflect the local business community in general.
I suspect you're young, or maybe not familiar with the workings of local business.
Yes, your right in the case of Peter Johnson, "Pocket a few million quid".

Interesting to see mr Johnson join the debate

There's a saying,

There's lots of men in Buisness,but not many businessmen,what class do you put yourself in Taut ?

I say again, the revoking of this covenant is a sacrilegious act against those who made the ultimate sacrifice.

It stamps on their memories who fought from the trenches in France and the friends and families who fought for the charity so this Ingleborough memorial could be bestowed to the Wirral people.

"RED lips are not so red
As the stained stones kissed by the English dead"

Well a kiss with the Devil is farewell to the Lord - go count your money, and pain for you forever endured.

One can only hope these words find their target.

Well said, Jack Boot.

A shabby, shameful deal, but more than adequate recompense to TRFC for the withdrawal of council sponsorship.

Future generations will rightly curse us, because we devastated something timeless in exchange for short term profit.

Threads like this reinforce my decision to move away from the Wirral. Nothing ever progresses, as usually development plans are shot down by a miniscule group of residents who have their own agenda.

I am not a Tranmere fan, nor originally from the Prenton or Woodchurch area. The black and white facts are the development will improve the quality and access to the memorial promoting both awareness and opportunity to reflect on the sacrifices of those that gave their lives. In conjunction, and most critically at a time of austerity, the development will improve facilities at a sports centre that will provide entertainment, health benefits and importantly jobs for the people of the Wirral who really need it.

Birkenhead and the Wirral desperately need investment, and yet when it is offered people always object.

At long last someone who has very similar views to myself,watch out for the slagging of you are to receive

You left the Wirral for London ! Nothing you write can be taken seriously.


Peter Johnson's sense of fairplay...' level the playing fields'

LondonWirral wrote:
Threads like this reinforce my decision to move away from the Wirral. Nothing ever progresses, as usually development plans are shot down by a miniscule group of residents who have their own agenda.

I am not a Tranmere fan, nor originally from the Prenton or Woodchurch area. The black and white facts are the development will improve the quality and access to the memorial promoting both awareness and opportunity to reflect on the sacrifices of those that gave their lives. In conjunction, and most critically at a time of austerity, the development will improve facilities at a sports centre that will provide entertainment, health benefits and importantly jobs for the people of the Wirral who really need it.

Birkenhead and the Wirral desperately need investment, and yet when it is offered people always object.

A little insight into the people who run this council.

http://www.wirralglo
be.co.uk/news/951656
1.MP_s_blast___Incom
petent_council_offic
ers_cost_Wirral___60
m_in_lost_grants_/?a
ction=complain&cid=1
0093954


Most Wirral residents embrace investment and development.
Wirral waterfront (Wirral Waters) will be a massive local investment.
New Brighton has just undergone a large investment/developme
nt stage, attracting many to the once depressed area.
Wirral's future is looking good, thanks to 'massive' private investment which will compliment Liverpool's changes in fortune!
Peter Johnson (the tax exile) has overstepped the mark, between investment and exploitation.
You have a reference to London in your name, would it be right to build another Shard on the site of the Cenotaph?
The field in its entirety is the memorial, just like the National Arboretum.
Peter Johnson knew this when he bought it!

Ref Wirral Waters:

http://www.wirralwat
ers.co.uk/content/ho
me.php



The problem with these forums is, you never really know who is commenting.

Tautology wrote:

LondonWirral wrote:
Threads like this reinforce my decision to move away from the Wirral. Nothing ever progresses, as usually development plans are shot down by a miniscule group of residents who have their own agenda.

I am not a Tranmere fan, nor originally from the Prenton or Woodchurch area. The black and white facts are the development will improve the quality and access to the memorial promoting both awareness and opportunity to reflect on the sacrifices of those that gave their lives. In conjunction, and most critically at a time of austerity, the development will improve facilities at a sports centre that will provide entertainment, health benefits and importantly jobs for the people of the Wirral who really need it.

Birkenhead and the Wirral desperately need investment, and yet when it is offered people always object.

A little insight into the people who run this council.

http://www.wirralglo

be.co.uk/news/951656

1.MP_s_blast___Incom

petent_council_offic

ers_cost_Wirral___60

m_in_lost_grants_/?a

ction=complain&c
id=1
0093954


Most Wirral residents embrace investment and development.
Wirral waterfront (Wirral Waters) will be a massive local investment.
New Brighton has just undergone a large investment/developme

nt stage, attracting many to the once depressed area.
Wirral's future is looking good, thanks to 'massive' private investment which will compliment Liverpool's changes in fortune!
Peter Johnson (the tax exile) has overstepped the mark, between investment and exploitation.
You have a reference to London in your name, would it be right to build another Shard on the site of the Cenotaph?
The field in its entirety is the memorial, just like the National Arboretum.
Peter Johnson knew this when he bought it!

Ref Wirral Waters:

http://www.wirralwat

ers.co.uk/content/ho

me.php



The problem with these forums is, you never really know who is commenting.

"The problem with these forums is, you never really know who is commenting."

I think we sometimes do Serena, don't we? ;-)

Wirral residents embrace development,what a load of nonsense Newbrighton would have been done 10 years earlier if it wasn't for all the protesters

Positive thinker wrote:
Wirral residents embrace development,what a load of nonsense Newbrighton would have been done 10 years earlier if it wasn't for all the protesters

You missed the first two words out in the sentence: "Most Wirral"

Don't even know why I'm replying to a troll!

I refer to my earlier posts.

Comparison to the Cenotaph in this instance is laughable. The Cenotaph is an open landmark, viewed by probably tens if not hundreds of thousands of people per day. Not even 10 people per year get to see the plaque in Ingleborough as it is in the middle of a locked up field and in disrepair.

I had no idea the plaque was even there until these series of articles were published, which is a shame. Maybe once the redevelopment is finished, and an appropriate tribute is free for all to view, more people will learn about the sacrifice made by former residents.

LondonWirral wrote:
Comparison to the Cenotaph in this instance is laughable. The Cenotaph is an open landmark, viewed by probably tens if not hundreds of thousands of people per day. Not even 10 people per year get to see the plaque in Ingleborough as it is in the middle of a locked up field and in disrepair.

I had no idea the plaque was even there until these series of articles were published, which is a shame. Maybe once the redevelopment is finished, and an appropriate tribute is free for all to view, more people will learn about the sacrifice made by former residents.

LondonWirral,
you miss the point entirely,did you read my response to "why is it shameful" let me reiterate if I may,both the Cenotaph and Ingleborough Memorial field were paid for by bequests and public subsciption by the decent people of the borough who wished to have the sacrifices made by their loved ones remembered,some who couldnt afford called in tears that their sons may not be remembered but the good people of Birkenhead came through, unlike today were money is the god and sacrifices and community spirt are a thing of the past.All we have now is a debt ridden football club and a complicit WBC leeching off the those that had the goodness of heart to give to the community somewhere to remember those that made the ultimate sacrifice.Your suggestion of jobs in all probability they wont be local jobs but people brought in,and to your comment about the state of Ingleborough Field who has "owned" it over the past ten years let it fall into disrepair and denied access to it?
All in all making money out of other's loss, good will and sacrifice can only be described as shameful as can the use of community tax money of over a million pounds used to protect a football business over the past years that has an impact here and now on the disabled, I say it again shameful.

I for one know that if I was to sacrifice my life to protect the future of others, I would want the generations to come to have a better quality of life, and enjoyment, as a tribute and testament to my actions, so long as they are never forgotten. In my opinion, the proposals address the needs of both sides perfectly. You mention community spirit, which is a great point. The new centre will bring people together again through sport, as witnessed at last years Olympics and the successful relay through Birkenhead. What a great rejuvenation of the legacy of those that died so long that will be.

There is precedent elsewhere, Manchester’s Cenotaph for example is moving to assist jointly in providing a more respectful and appropriate space for paying tribute to the fallen, and also assisting in City development. This was at the blessing of English Heritage.

But at the end of the day it is an opinion of mine. I respect your views (although mine don’t count due to my geographical location which was so eloquently posted above) and can see why you are upset if there is a personal attachment to a family member or the area. However, a democratic process has been undertaken, one that ultimately those that fought in both the major conflicts died to protect and we must respect this. I also understand that proposals have been approved by much higher political powers demonstrating due diligence must have been done to an appropriate level of red tape. I suggest you use your local council and wider political vote wisely next time if you are unhappy.

LondonWirral wrote:
Threads like this reinforce my decision to move away from the Wirral. Nothing ever progresses, as usually development plans are shot down by a miniscule group of residents who have their own agenda.

I am not a Tranmere fan, nor originally from the Prenton or Woodchurch area. The black and white facts are the development will improve the quality and access to the memorial promoting both awareness and opportunity to reflect on the sacrifices of those that gave their lives. In conjunction, and most critically at a time of austerity, the development will improve facilities at a sports centre that will provide entertainment, health benefits and importantly jobs for the people of the Wirral who really need it.

Birkenhead and the Wirral desperately need investment, and yet when it is offered people always object.

We're having a debate, LW, not deciding council policy. These are not councillors deciding what should happen to Ingleborough; they are ordinary citizens giving their opinions on what has already been decided. If you object to that then I think that maybe democracy isn't the system for you.

Incidentally, do you believe that investment is the be all and end all, whatever its cost? Would you, for example, approve of a scheme where social housing was bulldozed to make way for commercial opportunities? The line must be drawn somewhere, and there's absolutely nothing wrong with people telling us where they think that line should be. Doing so doesn't say anything bad about the Wirral, or about Birkenhead, but only confirms that people in this area are not afraid to express an opinion. Not doing so and just accepting everything the council decides to do because "its about investment" would be a slavish, myopic and dangerous way to behave; and recent events confirm that WBC cannot be trusted to act in the interests of all its citizens.

London Wirral, I would like you to read the report by Ian Brand Asset Manager WMBC, Yes your point on Development is a valided one but this development is about Council Tax Payers saving a Private Company, it is about a Deed of Covenamt that is there to stop this Private Company from getting a hold of a Public asset to help save it and then asset strip it to a advantage of £5.5m. There is no detail on what we the Council Tax Payer is going to GET, there is no current system in place that protects our interests and no Counsultation a commitment this current adminastration states it is committed to. This on the backs of the cuts on those most vulnerable in our community? The question you need to ask, is it right that the decission for this matter going forward has been placed in one persons hands, whitout any information on what we are getting or open consultation which is a process of disclosing information and seeking views, it is not binding on Council on its outcome it reaches, its only a guide, so why are they frightened of that process?
You are a son of Wirral and you will have family here, that gives you a right to have your say. This is called Democracy that is all I'm asking, consultation is also apart of that process, is it?

This is clogging my emails now. It was an innocent view hoping to see progress for an area I am still proud to be from.

Bickboy, I suggest you look up PPPs. Investment is a policy tool in which to encourage development and achieve benefits of return that a single entity couldn’t solely achieve. Social housing is a great example. Look at the policy in Liverpool and Stoke in terms of £1 housing in order to redevelop an area and reintroduce a community.
When WBC can't afford to keep libarys and swimming pools open, joint investment schemes like those proposed are the only way for progression during austerity. Your point on democracy in the context described is contradicting.

Wirral Democrat. To get the approval the council have recived, an impact assessment must have taken place resulting in a positive BCR, both in monetary and social terms. I agree WBC should have run a consultation as the matter is obviously contraversial, as this thread proves. However as they have skipped this process I guess it was not bound in legislation. I guess those that made that decision will not be re-elected next time, unless the wider population have no issue.

this argument is in danger of becoming sensible

Hi London Wirral,
First of all, it does not matter to me that you do not live in Wirral any longer; your voice is as valid as anybody’s.
This issue has been rumbling on for a long time now and from the outset it was “controversial” and WBC is well aware of the fact that some people object to what TRFC propose to do with the land. Nonetheless, they failed to consult the wider population of Wirral. You highlight that there may be no legislation requiring WBC to consult and that they must have done an impact assessment – two things spring to mind here:

1. We are talking about a spectacularly inept organisation – WBC - so I lack your faith that it has worked within legislation

2. I am fed up with people quoting “legislation” and “laws” – we are talking about something many of us see as a moral issue. Legislation used to exist that made slavery and child labour legal – but it did not make them morally acceptable. The bottom line here is that families of young men killed serving their country bought the memorial and it is a place to respect and recognise their sacrifice and that is being trampled on to prop up a private company. The whole idea of the covenant was to preserve the memorial and prevent land speculation by private individuals. Mr Johnson can live quite comfortably in exile on his current wealth and does not need the £5 million from the sale of Ingleborough - so the memory of those young men is being sacrificed to greed and the god of money. In my book, that is immoral and reinforces the message that the only important thing in this world is money. Until people wake up and realise that there are more important things than money nothing will change for the better.

LondonWirral wrote:
This is clogging my emails now. It was an innocent view hoping to see progress for an area I am still proud to be from.

Bickboy, I suggest you look up PPPs. Investment is a policy tool in which to encourage development and achieve benefits of return that a single entity couldn’t solely achieve. Social housing is a great example. Look at the policy in Liverpool and Stoke in terms of £1 housing in order to redevelop an area and reintroduce a community.
When WBC can't afford to keep libarys and swimming pools open, joint investment schemes like those proposed are the only way for progression during austerity. Your point on democracy in the context described is contradicting.

Wirral Democrat. To get the approval the council have recived, an impact assessment must have taken place resulting in a positive BCR, both in monetary and social terms. I agree WBC should have run a consultation as the matter is obviously contraversial, as this thread proves. However as they have skipped this process I guess it was not bound in legislation. I guess those that made that decision will not be re-elected next time, unless the wider population have no issue.

LW, you talked earlier about a "miniscule" group of residents who are blocking progress. I repeat: nobody here can "block progress", nor would they if that progress promised real improvements to the local economy.

There's been a lot of sound and fury expressed over Ingleborough on these pages, but at the end of the day its made no difference to what was clearly a fait accompli. Democracy was never a part of this process because as far as I am aware--and I stand to be corrected-- the plans for Ingleborough were never part of any party manifesto. Therefore its logical to observe that you support something which was never submitted to the scrutiny of the democratic process.

Secondly, when you refer to investment you clearly mean, in the context of this topic, the building of houses on Ingleborough Field. Who is going to buy those houses, and with what, in an unemployment blackspot? Britain still has over one million young people without jobs, and many more older people who cannot find employment. Very few of those people, I would imagine, have a cat in Hell's chance of saving 20k for a deposit. So how, apart from some temporary construction jobs which will probably go to people from outside the area, does this one development help the local economy; and how does it therefore count as an "investment" in Wirral?

I really would be interested to know.

Or because its a linked development ?????.

Nice big sized field where children could play being sold for development what a shock!