Dad's dismay after child's trip to the loo sees him hit with £140 parking fine

12:40pm Wednesday 9th January 2013 in News Exclusive By Craig Manning

Dad's dismay after trip to the loo sees him hit with £140 parking fine Dad's dismay after trip to the loo sees him hit with £140 parking fine

A WALLASEY dad taking his daughter on an emergency trip to the toilet led to him being fined £140 in parking penalties.

John Spenceley is now in dispute with a parking enforcement company after he overstayed his allotted time by just two minutes.

Mr Spenceley had left his Fiat 500 in Liscard's Cherry Tree Shopping Centre car park to go Christmas shopping with his seven-year-old daughter.

He bought a pay-and-display ticket which he thought would be sufficient to cover their time in the centre.

But as they returned to the car, his daughter said she urgently needed the toilet.

Mr Spenceley explained the child’s plight to a patrolling warden, who said he would allow him ten minutes’ “grace” before issuing a fine.

When they returned, Mr Spenceley found a ticket on the windscreen charging him £50.

He admits the trip to the loo took 12 minutes - two minutes over the warden’s limit – but believes the fine is harsh in the circumstances.

The penalty then doubled as Mr Spenceley failed to pay up within seven days as he had appealed to the parking firm against its decision.

In a letter to Mr Spenceley, the company warned time to pay £100 was “diminishing rapidly” and he has since been informed the fine has risen to £140.

Mr Spenceley said: “I cannot believe it. You don’t expect to go shopping and come back with a £140 fine.

“I was only away from the car for two minutes over the time and I think the fine is excessive.

"I explained the situation to the warden before taking my daughter to the toilets and I thought he understood.

“I have appealed against the fine, but it doesn’t seem to have made any difference.”

Trevor Whitehouse, chairman of Preston-based recovery company Automatic Number Plate Recognition Ltd, told the Globe: “We are employed by Liscard Cherry Tree Centre not to enforce, but to provide good car park management and ensure everybody abides by the terms of conduct.

“There are warning signs clearly displayed which set out the terms of conduct. Unfortunately, some people choose to ignore those warnings.

“When we pursue a driver through the DVLA we incur costs which have to be recovered, which is why the fine increased to £100 and now £140.

“We can’t be treated as a joke.”

Comments(41)

WirralAl says...
10:41am Wed 9 Jan 13

The idea that you need to pay to park in Liscard is a complete joke.

The best lesson for this guy is not to shop in Liscard. It's gone down hill so much that I cannot see any point in going. It is depressing and full of so call pound shops selling crap.

If this stupid council want Liscard to die then keep charging for parking.

That way they will stop robbing shop keepers of mega council tax for no service. More and more shops will leave and it will get worse.

The council needs to support the shop keepers and provide incentives for people to shop locally including Liscard and Birkenhead. Don't they watch the news? People will move to more on line purchasing and out of town developments. (Then again I doubt any councillor has actually been shopping in either of these town centres)

The costs of running the car parks and meters against the revenue they create compared to the loss of shops and jobs and council tax only highlights the fact that our council is full of stupid short sighted idiots.

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smabo says...
11:24am Wed 9 Jan 13

Al, a fair rant perhaps, but not really relevant in this case as this is a private car park operated by the Cherry Tree Centre itself - they could make it free if they wanted and if they thought that would help traders based in the centre, but they don't - you have to ask yourself why?

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Cheesy Peas says...
11:48am Wed 9 Jan 13

"We can't be treated as a joke."

Oh yes, sir, you most certainly can.

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polo_rob says...
12:25pm Wed 9 Jan 13

Just a quick note, they can and should be treated as a joke, any "fine" or "ticket" that the private parking company "issue" is not legally enforceable at all. The very fact that they obtained his details from the DVLA means that the parking company themselves have committed a criminal offence! I have fought and beaten three parking tickets from Cherry Tree under two different parking contractors. No ticket has any legal bearing at all, they rely on contract law which is full of flaws, and intimidate people with letters full of threats of what they "can" do to you. Truth is they can't do a thing!

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WirralAl says...
12:46pm Wed 9 Jan 13

smabo wrote:
Al, a fair rant perhaps, but not really relevant in this case as this is a private car park operated by the Cherry Tree Centre itself - they could make it free if they wanted and if they thought that would help traders based in the centre, but they don't - you have to ask yourself why?
Was a bit of a rant but the place is dying and this council do not have a sensible approach to the problem. Please elaborate the reasons why not.

Report this post »

smabo says...
12:55pm Wed 9 Jan 13

WirralAl wrote:
smabo wrote:
Al, a fair rant perhaps, but not really relevant in this case as this is a private car park operated by the Cherry Tree Centre itself - they could make it free if they wanted and if they thought that would help traders based in the centre, but they don't - you have to ask yourself why?
Was a bit of a rant but the place is dying and this council do not have a sensible approach to the problem. Please elaborate the reasons why not.
If parking charges were what is really killing business there, the shopping centre itself would be under pressure to stop charging for customers to use its own car park. There are other factors involved in Liscard's demise and very probably the Council could have done more in general to soften the impact, but blaming it all on car parking charges, particularly when it's not even a Council run car park this story is about, is just a bit opportunist. In my opinion ;-)

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davr0s says...
1:38pm Wed 9 Jan 13

I was given a parking ticket in Birkenhead three years ago for parking in a perfectly safe and unobstructive place when no designated spaces were available.

I haven't been back since.

For the sake of that £25 ticket, Birkenhead has since lost out on the thousands of pounds that I have instead spent in Bromborough or Cheshire Oaks, where parking is free and plentiful.

I very much doubt I'm alone.

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hildebrand says...
1:47pm Wed 9 Jan 13

if you park illegally you get fined, end of

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WirralAl says...
1:53pm Wed 9 Jan 13

smabo wrote:
WirralAl wrote:
smabo wrote:
Al, a fair rant perhaps, but not really relevant in this case as this is a private car park operated by the Cherry Tree Centre itself - they could make it free if they wanted and if they thought that would help traders based in the centre, but they don't - you have to ask yourself why?
Was a bit of a rant but the place is dying and this council do not have a sensible approach to the problem. Please elaborate the reasons why not.
If parking charges were what is really killing business there, the shopping centre itself would be under pressure to stop charging for customers to use its own car park. There are other factors involved in Liscard's demise and very probably the Council could have done more in general to soften the impact, but blaming it all on car parking charges, particularly when it's not even a Council run car park this story is about, is just a bit opportunist. In my opinion ;-)
It is in my opinion one of the major factors is parking. Does the council own the car park?

Report this post »

smabo says...
2:06pm Wed 9 Jan 13

WirralAl wrote:
smabo wrote:
WirralAl wrote:
smabo wrote:
Al, a fair rant perhaps, but not really relevant in this case as this is a private car park operated by the Cherry Tree Centre itself - they could make it free if they wanted and if they thought that would help traders based in the centre, but they don't - you have to ask yourself why?
Was a bit of a rant but the place is dying and this council do not have a sensible approach to the problem. Please elaborate the reasons why not.
If parking charges were what is really killing business there, the shopping centre itself would be under pressure to stop charging for customers to use its own car park. There are other factors involved in Liscard's demise and very probably the Council could have done more in general to soften the impact, but blaming it all on car parking charges, particularly when it's not even a Council run car park this story is about, is just a bit opportunist. In my opinion ;-)
It is in my opinion one of the major factors is parking. Does the council own the car park?
Fair enough. I'm not sure how it works, but I imagine the company that owns the Cherry Tree Centre - Cushman and Wakefield - owns the car park too.

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Positive thinker says...
2:44pm Wed 9 Jan 13

The globe must love printing tails like this one,pay up you prat

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Dantealighieri says...
3:30pm Wed 9 Jan 13

What bothers me about this saga is the fact that the DLVA can sell your details on to a private company. Your name, your address, should remain your business, unless you choose to reveal them, or the DLVA are requested, by the proper authorities, council or police, to disclose them. If private parking 'enforcement' companies cannot operate without that service being available, tough, it should not be up to any Government agency to sell information on private citizens to facilitate those businesses.

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Jack Boot says...
3:37pm Wed 9 Jan 13

DVLA makes money out of selling our details, so much for data protection, only when it suits them.

The ticket is unenforceable anyway but that probably wont console this victim. What he should have done is ignore the letters, or claim not to be the driver. The last thing this company wants is to go to court, because of the costs.

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water1lily says...
4:20pm Wed 9 Jan 13

It's only £1.20 for 3 hours you cannot get cheaper than that, so it's his own fault if he's too mean to pay.

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PaulCa says...
4:44pm Wed 9 Jan 13

With reference to the first post re: joined up thinking and decision-makers being made aware of the trend towards online shopping, I'm hearing that despite CEO Graham Burgess's public reassurance today in another local newspaper:

"We are working towards sharing back office services with other councils and reducing the amount we spend on our buildings, IT and procurement."

... it's full steam ahead with wiring up the Town Hall, Brighton Street for Wi-Fi - and the dishing out of the latest portable tablet computers for councillors.

So there's still a chance that despite any controversy caused, and regardless of any job losses for council staff and cuts to our services, 64 councillors will be dragged kicking and screaming into the 21st Century, and 2 more will be added this month following the by elections - overseen by Graham Burgess - who will collect an as yet unspecified fee as "returning officer".

http://tinyurl.com/a
m98atr

So at least all's well at the Town Hall. They ARE looking after somebody's interests after all.

Nice.

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pooboy says...
4:45pm Wed 9 Jan 13

A couple of points;
If this was a council car park it wouldnt get in the paper due to bias.
The man is moaning because he was lte 2 mins..the warden gave him an extra 10 minutes....I bet he was longer than 12 minutes...
Anyway,if he brokes the rules.All car park have the terms and conditions,he broke them end of.
Also the comments above about I was fined £25 and don't shop in Birkenhead? Good for you...but if everyone parked where they wanted it would be chaos.That spot was a fine zone for a reason.I used to work in birkenhead and the number of idiots that would park in my car park and thought it was ok was a joke.they dont know when a wagon is coming in or a staff member needs to park.
Im sure Birkenhead is glad you go to cheshire oaks, you inconsiderate person....if you also have £1000s to spend and wont pay £25 and pay the high prices in c/oaks rather than the offers in bhead you are a muppet!!! nose off to spite face springs to mind!!!
you get some right idiots on here!

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sandals_wearer says...
4:53pm Wed 9 Jan 13

Not too late for Mr Spenceley to bin everything he's been sent. Lots of info on the private parking scam at http://forums.pepipo
o.com/index.php?show
forum=60

The Globe could do its bit to educate people by putting quotes around "fine" in stories referring to unenforceable civil penalty charges.

Report this post »

WirralAl says...
5:11pm Wed 9 Jan 13

pooboy wrote:
A couple of points;
If this was a council car park it wouldnt get in the paper due to bias.
The man is moaning because he was lte 2 mins..the warden gave him an extra 10 minutes....I bet he was longer than 12 minutes...
Anyway,if he brokes the rules.All car park have the terms and conditions,he broke them end of.
Also the comments above about I was fined £25 and don't shop in Birkenhead? Good for you...but if everyone parked where they wanted it would be chaos.That spot was a fine zone for a reason.I used to work in birkenhead and the number of idiots that would park in my car park and thought it was ok was a joke.they dont know when a wagon is coming in or a staff member needs to park.
Im sure Birkenhead is glad you go to cheshire oaks, you inconsiderate person....if you also have £1000s to spend and wont pay £25 and pay the high prices in c/oaks rather than the offers in bhead you are a muppet!!! nose off to spite face springs to mind!!!
you get some right idiots on here!
Wow you owned a car park. But you are right you do get some idiots.

Is the Wirral Globe bias for the council. No don't think so.

Why would free parking create chaos?
Inappropriate parking does cause problems.

I think Birkenhead shops would like every shopper to go to Birkenhead and not to the many many other nicer shopping centres. Birkenhead is on its knees with the lack of trade.

In this case the guy should of paid for another ticket at the time or paid the fine.

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Positive thinker says...
5:24pm Wed 9 Jan 13

I hope the ticket is enforceable,I also hope it goes up for your delay tactics,no sympathy on this blog,if you of paid it straight away it would of been a fraction of what it is knowFact of life is paying to park your car unless your one of those free loaders with the free car and blue badge

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sandals_wearer says...
6:10pm Wed 9 Jan 13

Positive thinker: "unless your one of those free loaders with the free car and blue badge".

We none of us know that one day we won't be the person needing them. Not even you.

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bickyboy says...
6:44pm Wed 9 Jan 13

Private parking companies are the modern equivalent of the footpad, with his mask, loaded pistol and raucous cry of "Stand and Deliver!"

They should be abolished forthwith and their staff forced to get a proper job that doesn't involve foisting misery and distress on decent and generally law abiding people. They are usurers and extortionists, and should be disappeared into that black hole along with Gio Compario.

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bickyboy says...
6:46pm Wed 9 Jan 13

Positive thinker wrote:
I hope the ticket is enforceable,I also hope it goes up for your delay tactics,no sympathy on this blog,if you of paid it straight away it would of been a fraction of what it is knowFact of life is paying to park your car unless your one of those free loaders with the free car and blue badge
If only your New Year's resolution had been "use my brain to think instead of my keyboard".
This is a serious topic that requires serious responses, not the cretinous blatherings of a troll with too much time on his hands.

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fish41 says...
7:34pm Wed 9 Jan 13

He should have just returned the envelope with NO Contract written on the envelope. Another tip is to put a several signs on your car near where the warden would stick a fine which just staes that you will charge £100 (or whatever fee you like) to remove any items stuck on your window or under your wiper blades. They are getting crafty now using number plate recognition in some car parks

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porl112 says...
8:19pm Wed 9 Jan 13

davr0s wrote:
I was given a parking ticket in Birkenhead three years ago for parking in a perfectly safe and unobstructive place when no designated spaces were available.

I haven't been back since.

For the sake of that £25 ticket, Birkenhead has since lost out on the thousands of pounds that I have instead spent in Bromborough or Cheshire Oaks, where parking is free and plentiful.

I very much doubt I'm alone.
You're not alone. Same thing happened to me. Ten years I stayed away from Birkenhead shops. Just went everywhere else with free parking.

I am now shopping there again as parking is free after 3 and free all day if you park at ASDA and spend more than five pound.

If they start charging again I won't go there anymore so I do hope the council takes note. One walk down Grange Road and around the market will demonstate what car parking charges do for a town centre.

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No.9 says...
9:02pm Wed 9 Jan 13

porl112 wrote:
davr0s wrote:
I was given a parking ticket in Birkenhead three years ago for parking in a perfectly safe and unobstructive place when no designated spaces were available.

I haven't been back since.

For the sake of that £25 ticket, Birkenhead has since lost out on the thousands of pounds that I have instead spent in Bromborough or Cheshire Oaks, where parking is free and plentiful.

I very much doubt I'm alone.
You're not alone. Same thing happened to me. Ten years I stayed away from Birkenhead shops. Just went everywhere else with free parking.

I am now shopping there again as parking is free after 3 and free all day if you park at ASDA and spend more than five pound.

If they start charging again I won't go there anymore so I do hope the council takes note. One walk down Grange Road and around the market will demonstate what car parking charges do for a town centre.
Me too! But it happened in Heswall. I wasn't aware that the "free after 3" didn't apply at weekends. Obviously am aware now but don't want to go there anymore - just driving past the car park there stirs up the memory! So sorry to the nice restaurant on the corner but now you know why one of your regulars doesn't show up anymore. I do go to Birkenhead now that the ASDA parking deal is in place but if the council try to charge me than it's bye! bye! ASDA and Birkenhead.

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garcia123 says...
10:26pm Wed 9 Jan 13

its unenforceable check money saving expert web site under parking please pass this on to driver

http://forums.moneys
avingexpert.com/foru
mdisplay.php?f=163&o
rder=desc&page=5

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garcia123 says...
10:39pm Wed 9 Jan 13

ANPR Ltd are not shown there because they are pretty new, their owner is Trevor Whitehouse who used to own clampers called National Clamps. Google them if you want to read about him.

But when you know which debt collector letter you have, come back and look at the link I gave you again. You will find their letter chain listed under several PPCs I expect! Then you can predict each letter and know in advance when you are due to receive the last one.

Ooooh, and just to add, if you would like to help others to avoid this scam, please send scans or close-up photos of your letter chain from ANPR Ltd and their debt collector, to Crabman (the thread starter on that link). Please do take a moment to send him a pm with the date of the incident and the pics of each fake PCN/letter (with your car details and name/address and ticket number/date/location covered). He can then add it to the new letter chains thread being built up at the moment - ANPR Ltd are not on there yet so you could help!

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hildebrand says...
9:39am Thu 10 Jan 13

private car parks are run by private companies for profit. If you think you should be able to park on private premises for nothing youre an idiot.

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bickyboy says...
9:46am Thu 10 Jan 13

Doesn't absolve them from a duty, a responsibility even, to levy those charges in a reasonable way, hildebrand. After all, those who use private car parks are, in every sense customers of the private parking companies, not merely potential victims to be bled dry of their cash at every opportunity.

The true "idiot" is the one who thinks that once you park on private land, you should expect the very worst service and desist from complaining when you get it.

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davr0s says...
10:07am Thu 10 Jan 13

pooboy wrote:
A couple of points;
If this was a council car park it wouldnt get in the paper due to bias.
The man is moaning because he was lte 2 mins..the warden gave him an extra 10 minutes....I bet he was longer than 12 minutes...
Anyway,if he brokes the rules.All car park have the terms and conditions,he broke them end of.
Also the comments above about I was fined £25 and don't shop in Birkenhead? Good for you...but if everyone parked where they wanted it would be chaos.That spot was a fine zone for a reason.I used to work in birkenhead and the number of idiots that would park in my car park and thought it was ok was a joke.they dont know when a wagon is coming in or a staff member needs to park.
Im sure Birkenhead is glad you go to cheshire oaks, you inconsiderate person....if you also have £1000s to spend and wont pay £25 and pay the high prices in c/oaks rather than the offers in bhead you are a muppet!!! nose off to spite face springs to mind!!!
you get some right idiots on here!
Pooboy's suggestion that the Wirral Globe is biased towards the council demonstrates how well he thinks through his posts. I shall treat him and his juvenile insults with the attention they deserve.

Report this post »

hildebrand says...
10:47am Thu 10 Jan 13

the guy admitted that he overstayed his ticket. the company were within their rights to fine him, and probably have to deal with a lot of people doing the same thing every week, so i dont think its fair to just say 'let him off' and put it down to bad service.

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Positive thinker says...
11:39am Thu 10 Jan 13

This blog is full of bar room lawyers,who in my opinion are as bad as the prat who thinks he's above the law with his silly little story and mug shot,does he not realise the globe love it think we should all make a donation to help him and to save further embarrassment

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zephsgranddad2 says...
9:41pm Thu 10 Jan 13

with regard to shopping
in addition to parking, and service ny untrained staff, is a deterent to shopping locally.

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zephsgranddad2 says...
9:41pm Thu 10 Jan 13

with regard to shopping
in addition to parking, and service ny untrained staff, is a deterent to shopping locally.

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Wirralrob says...
2:14am Sat 12 Jan 13

Pay nothing to them.

They can't do much, and if they (pay to) take it to court, they will get laughed out by most competent magistrates.

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JADEE1 says...
6:15pm Sat 12 Jan 13

all the parking meters in BIRKENHEAD,/MERSEYSI
DE, are set ,between 4 & 9 minutes fast & more, in some cases,therefore any parking fine issued is totally illegal,,, the council have them set like that, to catch the public out,allways double check the time on the parking meter your ticket,& your own ,watch/fone,,you would have thought the police would have stepped in by now & prosicuted the council,!! for obtaining money by deception,?? dont tell me there above the law,??a criminal offence is a criminal offence,!!??

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bickyboy says...
12:03pm Sun 13 Jan 13

Positive thinker wrote:
This blog is full of bar room lawyers,who in my opinion are as bad as the prat who thinks he's above the law with his silly little story and mug shot,does he not realise the globe love it think we should all make a donation to help him and to save further embarrassment
To be called a "bar room lawyer" by you, Positive Thinker, is like being called a "vegetable-headed moron" by Mr Potato Head.

Is there no limit to your stupidity?

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Positive thinker says...
5:39pm Sun 13 Jan 13

Stupidity,

The only stupid people on this blog is the idiot who run of to the Globe,what's up with paying the fine like most people who get them,and the idiots who are harping on telling him not to pay it

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water1lily says...
5:50pm Sun 13 Jan 13

Children! Children!Does anyone really care about this anymore?

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spamfiend says...
6:08pm Sun 13 Jan 13

Got to say is it worth all this press?? the gentleman in question admitted her was in the wrong. The parking warden gave him a few minutes grace and he was still late.

Just pay the fine and have done. It has gone up simply because he thought he would get away with it and didn't!!

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Fight_Back says...
10:19am Thu 17 Jan 13

Good grief - what a load of twaddle some people have posted.

Firstly - it's NOT a fine !!!! Only the police, council and courts can issue fines.

The landowner, not the PPC, can only sue for loses and thus can only ask for loses incurred. In this case it would be less than £5. That makes the £140 being requested a penalty. Private companies are not allowed, under British law, to issue penalties to private individuals.

Therefore, the actions of the PPC are against British law and all correspondence from the PPC should be ignored.

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