Encouraging response to Wirral Council's budget cuts consultation (From Wirral Globe)

so there are deep cuts within the council, the possibility of redundancies in the planning department, and yet the CEO of the council demanded that his offices are refurbished to the sum of £30,000 because he didn't like them?

After reading said article I must say I've not extracted anything that is even vaguely on nodding terms with "encouraging." I can only deduce that "Team Spinders" have been moaning asking for some "balance" from the Globe perhaps ?

Keep up with the spin it may believed someday!

Keep up with the spin it may believed someday!

many of the budget options don't seem to stack up against the consultation results

Yes,I am afraid it is all spin make no mistake.

But if that's how some people "on the top table want to conduct themselves" so be it. You can't stop them.

However not everything is believed and gradually more and more people will begin to ask some awkward questions.

Personally I doubt filling in a "council deviseed" questionnaire will make much difference anyway. However a more positive move would be accomplished writing to your local councillor about your concerns.

At the end of the day "will they listen?" Possibly .... but I doubt it'll make much difference because the Council has a reputation of decision making "behind closed doors". Personally I cannot see this changing anytime soon. Hope I'm wrong.

You can kid some of the people some of the time but you can't kid all of the people all of the time. Remember that comment when next activiting the PR machine.

Mr Birdshit seems to be very happy about a consultation that could see 3'000 people lose their jobs. What a lovely man.

ArdalMcFardle wrote:
After reading said article I must say I've not extracted anything that is even vaguely on nodding terms with "encouraging." I can only deduce that "Team Spinders" have been moaning asking for some "balance" from the Globe perhaps ?

You, my friend, are stupid. And more than a bit boring.

This is, obviously, a promotional piece written mainly by the Council but with some editorial info added by the globe.

The Council are trying, in this instance, to encourage people to take part and fill in a questionnaire. The globe are obviously helping them by publishing this story.

Bastards. Both of them. Blah blah blah.

Bore off.

I have to say that the level of venom directed towards individuals at the council - particularly the CEX - is baffling. Talk about setting up someone to fail. This is a time when the council needs peoples input in order to make some really tough decisions caused, in the main, by spending cuts from the government. It is depressing in the extreme that people are quite happy to sit at the side lobbing bricks at the authority and just sit there loudly criticising options and deriding consultation as spin. All we seem to get is nonsense from certain individuals about a shower which is apparently now NOT being installed on the CEX floor. Who cares? Talk about fiddling while Rome burns. Let's see some decent discussion about what it is important and what's not, rather than the pointless bile written by many of the contributors to this site who seem to have their own petty, personal agendas to pursue.

And I have to say the Globe has been a lot more balanced since the departure of a certain Mr Justin Dunn., whose apparent hatred of all things public sector pervaded most of his stories. Still, I'm sure he's found another outlet for his "talent".

awirralman wrote:
I have to say that the level of venom directed towards individuals at the council - particularly the CEX - is baffling. Talk about setting up someone to fail. This is a time when the council needs peoples input in order to make some really tough decisions caused, in the main, by spending cuts from the government. It is depressing in the extreme that people are quite happy to sit at the side lobbing bricks at the authority and just sit there loudly criticising options and deriding consultation as spin. All we seem to get is nonsense from certain individuals about a shower which is apparently now NOT being installed on the CEX floor. Who cares? Talk about fiddling while Rome burns. Let's see some decent discussion about what it is important and what's not, rather than the pointless bile written by many of the contributors to this site who seem to have their own petty, personal agendas to pursue.

Please stop patronizing people. It seems you have your own agenda too. People do care about things you may see as trivial, such as spending 20 k plus on decor. Why? because it shows a way of thinking that gives rise to a view that those at the top are hopelessly out of touch and they just do not care. It is at best a public relations disaster and at worst arrogant indifference.If you don't think that people/staff are not going to be upset by this brass-necked sort of behavior then you need a reality check.

Mary Adair wrote:

awirralman wrote:
I have to say that the level of venom directed towards individuals at the council - particularly the CEX - is baffling. Talk about setting up someone to fail. This is a time when the council needs peoples input in order to make some really tough decisions caused, in the main, by spending cuts from the government. It is depressing in the extreme that people are quite happy to sit at the side lobbing bricks at the authority and just sit there loudly criticising options and deriding consultation as spin. All we seem to get is nonsense from certain individuals about a shower which is apparently now NOT being installed on the CEX floor. Who cares? Talk about fiddling while Rome burns. Let's see some decent discussion about what it is important and what's not, rather than the pointless bile written by many of the contributors to this site who seem to have their own petty, personal agendas to pursue.

Please stop patronizing people. It seems you have your own agenda too. People do care about things you may see as trivial, such as spending 20 k plus on decor. Why? because it shows a way of thinking that gives rise to a view that those at the top are hopelessly out of touch and they just do not care. It is at best a public relations disaster and at worst arrogant indifference.If you don't think that people/staff are not going to be upset by this brass-necked sort of behavior then you need a reality check.

My only agenda is pointing out the reality of the situation instead of the twisted nonsense written by you and others. What are you talking about when you say brass neck? Apparently they are moving all of the directors to one floor in one building to try and improve the running of the organisation (because, as even you would concede, it's not been great previously). Therefore it is hardly surprising that there will need to be some reorganisation of the offices and a cost attached to it. But to try and present it as the directors creating some kind of lavish civic palace no doubt complete with gold plated taps etc is completely perverse and helps no one. If you are going to move people around there is a cost.

Obviously you are the lone voice of sanity and any counter view point is deemed "twisted" and "nonsense" - As I said - patronizing. What are you on about re gold plated taps and showers ?? I think you inhabit a different reality. The reality is whilst the directors make themselves comfortable vulnerable people will see services hammered. We have already seen how vulnerable people have been treated by this contemptible council so it can only get worse. Therefore it is completely insensitive to spend money on executive furnishings, which I might add I have seen. After reading your posts on other threads there is no doubt you do have a particular agenda as you constantly defend the new Executive with rather more passion than shall we say a "concerned citizen"

Feel free to dismiss this as "twisted" that is your right and expect to be challenged,as is mine.

I fail to see the point of this story. This is a story that the council is pleased that people are responding to a questionnaire and making it sound like they are doing a good job.

At least GB is acting to reduce costs which is what is needed due to circumstances beyond our control and cause by previous Labour madness.

All of us are concerned about the millions this council have wasted on all the mistakes of the past, the pay outs to ex employees has been a complete disgrace and the total arrogance of both senior officers and Councillors and the lack of action against the staff who have failed the people that they are supposed to serve is frankly beyond belief.

It is clear they will not take any action for the failures no matter what anybody says.

The message here is clearly spin.

I can't say I like the guys tactics and most of them appear to be Hitlerish threats and we are all concerned in the reduction of services and I feel sorry for the people who lose there job.

I have no agenda but I can see why other people posting on the site do when they will lose there job or have been treated badly in the past while the top brass have made such a mess while ensuring that they are all well looked after.

At least Graham Burgess will put a stop to these pay offs. I predict there will be no more on his watch.

There were three more last week, CareBear89.

So don't hold your breath,

Cheesy Peas wrote:
There were three more last week, CareBear89.

So don't hold your breath,

Almost a 100k

http://democracy.wir
ral.gov.uk/documents
/s50007755/Monitorin
g%20of%20Compromise%
20Contracts%20-%20Ap
pendix%201.pdf

Its true! things are improving,Trees are blossoming,roads are repaired,bins are emptied weekly
Martin Morton is now deputy CEX pigs are flying in formation and I came out of the coma!
They only consult when they want the answers they already have. The questions are skewed in WBC's favour. I feel sorry for the poor staff who have to promote this sewage in public.

Wirral council are a dictatorhip with thics to rival any banana republic. But dictatorships have a habit of crashing down. It's thepeople who run Wirral not the prima donnas. LET'S HOPE REAL MEMBERS OF THE COMMUNITY COME FORWARD TO STAND AS INDEPENDENTS AT THE NEXT LOCAL ELECTION AND BIN ALL OF THESE PARTY POLITIC FREELOADERS!

ArdalMcFardle wrote:

Cheesy Peas wrote:
There were three more last week, CareBear89.

So don't hold your breath,

Almost a 100k

http://democracy.wir

ral.gov.uk/documents

/s50007755/Monitorin

g%20of%20Compromise%

20Contracts%20-%20Ap

pendix%201.pdf

Oh no! Another Executive who is just like all the others.

Most of you take the bait everytime

No.9 wrote:
awirralman... or is it Emma? I assume you are not one of the 3,000 who now have to wait anxiously until next year to see if you still have a job.

I refer you to my previous answer on this. Please do not think that I do not sympathise, but this is largely down to cuts in government spending and dithering by previous administrations. Burgess has inherited this situation and has got to work out how to save £100 million. Fast. And that, sadly, means jobs will go. And actually, this is not a situation unique to Wirral (although it is more pressing because the previous administration did not take action when they should have done.) Public sector workers across the land are waiting anxiously to see if they still have a job. What annoys me is the lack of proper discussion and debate about what is important. Instead all we get is offensive comments about individuals and petty jealousies around salaries. We live in a democracy, so we all have a stake in the council and have a duty to tell them what we think is important to help them make the decisions. But the easy way out is to rubbish the consultation process, say it's pointless, opt out of having a say, take absolutely no responsibility and then stand on the sidelines hurling abuse and huffing and puffing about what's been decided. And that is precisely what happens on here. We are in a situation where far too much time is being spent naval gazing and pointing the finger, instead of supporting the organisation to get on with doing what it has to do if it is to avoid going bankrupt. I completely understand why people are cynical given previous events, but this is a financial emergency and like it or not things are going to happen that we do not like. So we either try and influence it, or we just sit back and criticise. But if you don't get involved, you really have no right to complain.

awirralman wrote:

No.9 wrote:
awirralman... or is it Emma? I assume you are not one of the 3,000 who now have to wait anxiously until next year to see if you still have a job.

I refer you to my previous answer on this. Please do not think that I do not sympathise, but this is largely down to cuts in government spending and dithering by previous administrations. Burgess has inherited this situation and has got to work out how to save £100 million. Fast. And that, sadly, means jobs will go. And actually, this is not a situation unique to Wirral (although it is more pressing because the previous administration did not take action when they should have done.) Public sector workers across the land are waiting anxiously to see if they still have a job. What annoys me is the lack of proper discussion and debate about what is important. Instead all we get is offensive comments about individuals and petty jealousies around salaries. We live in a democracy, so we all have a stake in the council and have a duty to tell them what we think is important to help them make the decisions. But the easy way out is to rubbish the consultation process, say it's pointless, opt out of having a say, take absolutely no responsibility and then stand on the sidelines hurling abuse and huffing and puffing about what's been decided. And that is precisely what happens on here. We are in a situation where far too much time is being spent naval gazing and pointing the finger, instead of supporting the organisation to get on with doing what it has to do if it is to avoid going bankrupt. I completely understand why people are cynical given previous events, but this is a financial emergency and like it or not things are going to happen that we do not like. So we either try and influence it, or we just sit back and criticise. But if you don't get involved, you really have no right to complain.

If we don't get involved in a flawed process "you really have no right to complain."

Erm sorry we do. Their are many other ways to get involved. You make many assumptions, some of us may be involved in pressure groups, in Carers support groups in community groups. Some are even whistle blowers so to say "take absolutely no responsibility" is a bit rich coming from somebody who comes across like a Corporate WBC Press release made flesh.

BTW who's this Justin chap you mentioned? A former editor? I wish people provided some context at times when making comments

ArdalMcFardle wrote:

awirralman wrote:

No.9 wrote:
awirralman... or is it Emma? I assume you are not one of the 3,000 who now have to wait anxiously until next year to see if you still have a job.

I refer you to my previous answer on this. Please do not think that I do not sympathise, but this is largely down to cuts in government spending and dithering by previous administrations. Burgess has inherited this situation and has got to work out how to save £100 million. Fast. And that, sadly, means jobs will go. And actually, this is not a situation unique to Wirral (although it is more pressing because the previous administration did not take action when they should have done.) Public sector workers across the land are waiting anxiously to see if they still have a job. What annoys me is the lack of proper discussion and debate about what is important. Instead all we get is offensive comments about individuals and petty jealousies around salaries. We live in a democracy, so we all have a stake in the council and have a duty to tell them what we think is important to help them make the decisions. But the easy way out is to rubbish the consultation process, say it's pointless, opt out of having a say, take absolutely no responsibility and then stand on the sidelines hurling abuse and huffing and puffing about what's been decided. And that is precisely what happens on here. We are in a situation where far too much time is being spent naval gazing and pointing the finger, instead of supporting the organisation to get on with doing what it has to do if it is to avoid going bankrupt. I completely understand why people are cynical given previous events, but this is a financial emergency and like it or not things are going to happen that we do not like. So we either try and influence it, or we just sit back and criticise. But if you don't get involved, you really have no right to complain.

If we don't get involved in a flawed process "you really have no right to complain."

Erm sorry we do. Their are many other ways to get involved. You make many assumptions, some of us may be involved in pressure groups, in Carers support groups in community groups. Some are even whistle blowers so to say "take absolutely no responsibility" is a bit rich coming from somebody who comes across like a Corporate WBC Press release made flesh.

BTW who's this Justin chap you mentioned? A former editor? I wish people provided some context at times when making comments

I don't doubt that some people are involved in these type of organisations, and naturally they will do their utmost to make sure their views are heard. However, if the level of debate on these forums is an example of the arguments being put forward then I think they will be doing themselves more harm than good. The point is that we have all this angry noise directed at the council but how much of it is constructive in terms of dealing with the issues in hand?

As for Justin, I understand that he was once a tabloid journalist but had a rather spectacular fall from grace ending up on the Globe, and now describes himself as a 'blogger'.

awirralman wrote:

No.9 wrote:
awirralman... or is it Emma? I assume you are not one of the 3,000 who now have to wait anxiously until next year to see if you still have a job.

I refer you to my previous answer on this. Please do not think that I do not sympathise, but this is largely down to cuts in government spending and dithering by previous administrations. Burgess has inherited this situation and has got to work out how to save £100 million. Fast. And that, sadly, means jobs will go. And actually, this is not a situation unique to Wirral (although it is more pressing because the previous administration did not take action when they should have done.) Public sector workers across the land are waiting anxiously to see if they still have a job. What annoys me is the lack of proper discussion and debate about what is important. Instead all we get is offensive comments about individuals and petty jealousies around salaries. We live in a democracy, so we all have a stake in the council and have a duty to tell them what we think is important to help them make the decisions. But the easy way out is to rubbish the consultation process, say it's pointless, opt out of having a say, take absolutely no responsibility and then stand on the sidelines hurling abuse and huffing and puffing about what's been decided. And that is precisely what happens on here. We are in a situation where far too much time is being spent naval gazing and pointing the finger, instead of supporting the organisation to get on with doing what it has to do if it is to avoid going bankrupt. I completely understand why people are cynical given previous events, but this is a financial emergency and like it or not things are going to happen that we do not like. So we either try and influence it, or we just sit back and criticise. But if you don't get involved, you really have no right to complain.

It's OK, I have read your previous posts and it seems my assumption was correct.

I have completed the questionnaire (could do with a direct and obvious link from the website home page if you have any influence in that dept.) and, although not worded well, I guess it will provide a broad-brush of opinion for what it's worth. I don't work for the council and don't fully understand the complexity of some of the services (as highlighted by Mr Donaldson in another eye-opening article on this site) so I have to trust it to make the right decisions on behalf of myself and my community and I just hope that the right decisions are ultimately made. And you're right, people are cynical given the events of the past few years so you have to expect the criticism and "venom".

Graham Burgess and his team will do what they have to do and I think it's fair to say that prospects look grim for many services and individuals, so try to understand why people baulk at their high wages and office refurbs etc.

I do worry for the staff who's jobs are at risk, they are people with families and mortgages and I don't like the way the news was broken via a "leaked" confidential document. I don't have much dealings with the council but when I do I've always found staff extremely helpful, professional, dedicated and polite. I really hope decisions are made wisely, honestly and compassionately.

Your comment about Justin Dunn came across as a bit "personal" btw.

No.9 wrote:

awirralman wrote:

No.9 wrote:
awirralman... or is it Emma? I assume you are not one of the 3,000 who now have to wait anxiously until next year to see if you still have a job.

I refer you to my previous answer on this. Please do not think that I do not sympathise, but this is largely down to cuts in government spending and dithering by previous administrations. Burgess has inherited this situation and has got to work out how to save £100 million. Fast. And that, sadly, means jobs will go. And actually, this is not a situation unique to Wirral (although it is more pressing because the previous administration did not take action when they should have done.) Public sector workers across the land are waiting anxiously to see if they still have a job. What annoys me is the lack of proper discussion and debate about what is important. Instead all we get is offensive comments about individuals and petty jealousies around salaries. We live in a democracy, so we all have a stake in the council and have a duty to tell them what we think is important to help them make the decisions. But the easy way out is to rubbish the consultation process, say it's pointless, opt out of having a say, take absolutely no responsibility and then stand on the sidelines hurling abuse and huffing and puffing about what's been decided. And that is precisely what happens on here. We are in a situation where far too much time is being spent naval gazing and pointing the finger, instead of supporting the organisation to get on with doing what it has to do if it is to avoid going bankrupt. I completely understand why people are cynical given previous events, but this is a financial emergency and like it or not things are going to happen that we do not like. So we either try and influence it, or we just sit back and criticise. But if you don't get involved, you really have no right to complain.

It's OK, I have read your previous posts and it seems my assumption was correct.

I have completed the questionnaire (could do with a direct and obvious link from the website home page if you have any influence in that dept.) and, although not worded well, I guess it will provide a broad-brush of opinion for what it's worth. I don't work for the council and don't fully understand the complexity of some of the services (as highlighted by Mr Donaldson in another eye-opening article on this site) so I have to trust it to make the right decisions on behalf of myself and my community and I just hope that the right decisions are ultimately made. And you're right, people are cynical given the events of the past few years so you have to expect the criticism and "venom".

Graham Burgess and his team will do what they have to do and I think it's fair to say that prospects look grim for many services and individuals, so try to understand why people baulk at their high wages and office refurbs etc.

I do worry for the staff who's jobs are at risk, they are people with families and mortgages and I don't like the way the news was broken via a "leaked" confidential document. I don't have much dealings with the council but when I do I've always found staff extremely helpful, professional, dedicated and polite. I really hope decisions are made wisely, honestly and compassionately.

Your comment about Justin Dunn came across as a bit "personal" btw.

I do agree that the questionnaire will only give a broad sense of what people think. I also think that people may not understand some of the language and I that the three options could be more defined in terms of what they mean. But it is better than nothing and at least they are putting up detail of what is being proposed. I agree that the front line staff I have come across are decent and helpful and is is a huge shame for them. Right across the country now hundreds of thousands of public sector workers are in roughly the same position with service reviews being carried out and question marks over department funding. That's what happens when you get most of your finance from government and it decides to slash it in half over a 4-5 year period. I have never met Justin, but I didn't like the way in which he seemed to specialise in just running stories that unfairly portrayed front line staff as jobsworths.

From all the documents I have seen both in paper and on line there is plenty of opportunity for people to express any ideas, theories, or suggestions that they may wish.

I do hope everybody who has a chance takes it and completes the questions and or provides any other wishes they may have.

As for the childish comments about re-decoration or refurbishment of offices, etc, the whole of the Wallasey Town Hall needs to be fumigated if not demolished to remove the stench of abject corruption generated over the last 20 years for it ever to become fit for purpose.
What is more most of the posters to this article know this full well.

Hey there Wirralman Well it would seem you have been fed some bogus info or have been reading "The Cloud Cuckoo News" because a quick google finds this journalist / blogger Dunn character was the very guy who broke the Martin Morton story.

http://www.wirralglo
be.co.uk/news/465683
3.Wirral_whistleblow
er_tells_the_Globe_w
hy_he_did_it/

A story which was very very much in the public interest and led to the Council having to pay back hundreds of thousands to vulnerable adults due to an illegal charging policy, which was covered up.

However you do not seem to appreciate good folks exposing anything rotten about this Council for reasons not yet apparent. I agree it did seem a pretty personal comment and you have already attacked the Globe editor for linking Burgess to Derek Hatton. Why so? Its an obvious point of reference and one Mr Burgess has been happy to drag up when it suits his agenda.

Strange. And the delightful inebriated troll? Obviously an insider or failed manager back from a round of golf and full of impotent vitriol. He has attacked virtually everybody but you. Feel free to dismiss this all : you will no doubt term "fantastical conspiracy theories", but I'm sorry I smell the whiff of "vested interest" here

Hugo1008 wrote:
From all the documents I have seen both in paper and on line there is plenty of opportunity for people to express any ideas, theories, or suggestions that they may wish.

I do hope everybody who has a chance takes it and completes the questions and or provides any other wishes they may have.

As for the childish comments about re-decoration or refurbishment of offices, etc, the whole of the Wallasey Town Hall needs to be fumigated if not demolished to remove the stench of abject corruption generated over the last 20 years for it ever to become fit for purpose.
What is more most of the posters to this article know this full well.

Hey Hugo. I value your opinion. You are right that you are given the opportunity to have your say and thats a positive. However, have the decisions already been made? For example, front line services for vulnerable people should be kept where possible yet funding to the voluntary sector is being targeted and non essential services like PR etc are not. You can't cut the funding to the community organisations then expect them to pick up council services. Two into one won't go. Somehow, it doesn't seem like this is a coherent plan and that is very worrying.

Mary Adair wrote:
Hey there Wirralman Well it would seem you have been fed some bogus info or have been reading "The Cloud Cuckoo News" because a quick google finds this journalist / blogger Dunn character was the very guy who broke the Martin Morton story.

http://www.wirralglo

be.co.uk/news/465683

3.Wirral_whistleblow

er_tells_the_Globe_w

hy_he_did_it/

A story which was very very much in the public interest and led to the Council having to pay back hundreds of thousands to vulnerable adults due to an illegal charging policy, which was covered up.

However you do not seem to appreciate good folks exposing anything rotten about this Council for reasons not yet apparent. I agree it did seem a pretty personal comment and you have already attacked the Globe editor for linking Burgess to Derek Hatton. Why so? Its an obvious point of reference and one Mr Burgess has been happy to drag up when it suits his agenda.

Strange. And the delightful inebriated troll? Obviously an insider or failed manager back from a round of golf and full of impotent vitriol. He has attacked virtually everybody but you. Feel free to dismiss this all : you will no doubt term "fantastical conspiracy theories", but I'm sorry I smell the whiff of "vested interest" here

I would wager this story would probably have broken either way, regardless of whether Justin was the reporter. It could well have been a tip given to the editor who passed it on to a member of staff. You say Burgess and Hatton is a point of reference - and it is - but it isn't particularly relevant. For a start, the council is not at war with the government, as Liverpool was. In fact, the redundancy notices are a last resort precisely to try and balance the budget, whereas in Liverpool it was a bargaining tactic that failed. So the two positions are entirely the opposite of each other. That is why I felt it was unfair. And I am getting a bit tired of saying this, but I have absolutely no interest in Wirral Council apart from the fact I am a resident and council tax payer. I do not work for them or receive any other form of benefit from them. But you keep telling yourself different if it makes it you feel better about the fact that you are clearly struggling to reconcile that someone has a different point of view from you and your husband. If I was a cynic, I would suggest you are quite closely linked to Mr Morton, given the frequency with which you return to this topic. In fact, I suspect you will probably be going on about it in 10 years time, when those responsible are long gone.

"I would wager this story would probably have broken either way, regardless of whether Justin was the reporter"

Possibly, we will never know but the fact is this guy was the reporter and the Globe has been the only local paper with the courage to try and regularly hold his council to account. Hence the award nomination.


"...Of view from you and your husband."

You've lost me now!?

"I would suggest you are quite closely linked to Mr Morton,"

Wrong, although we admire his courage, who's the conspiracy theorist now Mr Icke?

"...Frequency with which you return to this topic."

Did it not cross your mind that I may be,or be close to those who suffered? In addition, those involved in the cover up were not held responsible but instead allowed to retreat back under the rock from which they crawled with a huge bag of public money. It's a topic that goes to the heart of everything that's been wrong with this council. If Burgess cleans up the Council, I'll surely be the first to praise the guy. However, breath holding is not advised. Tactically he's playing a clever game for sure my worry is that it's front line services that will be hit and hit hard. And they have never been Rolls Royce despite the best efforts of staff

As council officer above said " yet funding to the voluntary sector is being targeted and non essential services like PR etc are not. " This is a worry.

It will all come out in the wash. I hope they have a "spin" dryer